Brewing Master

Question:

: : : I have been hearing alot about secondary fermentation and it’s benefits. : : How do I do it? I’ve got two fermenters so what do I do? Just siphon off : : the top of the brew? : : After primary ferment, siphon into a suitable container (preferably a : container capable of accepting an air lock- 5 gal. carboy, etc) and attach : air lock. : : Allow to slowly ferment (look at the air lock- bubbles should continue : at a slow pace) for a week or two. : : It will not only allow the beer to clear, but will also remove it from : contact with the "trub" and prevent autolysis of yeast. : : : When siphoning into the carboy, is it important to avoid aeriation ? : Or is the opposite  the case i.e. splah the beer from the siphon in to : the carboy ? Avoid splashing or aerating the beer when racking to the secondary.  At this point, anerobic fermentation has already begun and aeration of the beer will add to oxydation and off flavors. I didn’t notice if someone addressed the "when" question of secondary fermentation.  TNCJOHB says three to six days.  Once fermentation starts to slow down, the kraeusen falls back into the beer and the yeast begin to settle. — t.t.f.n. –Fitz sends

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have been hearing alot about secondary fermentation and it’s benefits. : How do I do it? I’ve got two fermenters so what do I do? Just siphon off : the top of the brew? After primary ferment, siphon into a suitable container (preferably a container capable of accepting an air lock- 5 gal. carboy, etc) and attach air lock. Allow to slowly ferment (look at the air lock- bubbles should continue at a slow pace) for a week or two. It will not only allow the beer to clear, but will also remove it from contact with the "trub" and prevent autolysis of yeast.

When siphoning into the carboy, is it important to avoid aeriation ? Or is the opposite  the case i.e. splah the beer from the siphon in to the carboy ?

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I’ve also been wondering about secondary fermentation.  When do I do it? Also, how long do I do it?   No, that’s not a proposition.  Only here for the beer.

Response:

: I have been hearing alot about secondary fermentation and it’s benefits. : How do I do it? I’ve got two fermenters so what do I do? Just siphon off : the top of the brew? After primary ferment, siphon into a suitable container (preferably a container capable of accepting an air lock- 5 gal. carboy, etc) and attach air lock. Allow to slowly ferment (look at the air lock- bubbles should continue at a slow pace) for a week or two. It will not only allow the beer to clear, but will also remove it from contact with the "trub" and prevent autolysis of yeast.

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I have been hearing alot about secondary fermentation and it’s benefits. How do I do it? I’ve got two fermenters so what do I do? Just siphon off the top of the brew? Marco

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I have been hearing alot about secondary fermentation and it’s benefits. How do I do it? I’ve got two fermenters so what do I do? Just siphon off the top of the brew?

Yes.  Be careful not to splash it.  Make sure your siphon hose or racking cane goes to the bottom of the secondary and that the beer can exit with a minimum of splashing.  Keep the end under the beer as the secondary fills. — Phil

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I’ve been using a 6.5 gal plastic bucket as my primary fermenter, since that is what I got with the kit when I started out.  I asked for (and got) a glass carboy for XMAS, but unfortunately it is a 6.5 gal model, not the 5 gal one I really wanted.  The question is – I have a batch of IPA in the carboy now that I wanted to rack to a secondary.  I was considering racking the brew out of the carboy int my bottling bucket long enough to clean & sanitize the carboy, then racking it back in.  But I am concerned about the extra airspsce in the 6.5 gal carboy.  Would I be better off to forget the secondary for this batch, and obtain a 5 gal carboy to use next time? Dave Ely

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DE DE I’ve been using a 6.5 gal plastic bucket as my primary fermenter, since tha DE is what I got with the kit when I started out.  I asked for (and got) a gla DE carboy for XMAS, but unfortunately it is a 6.5 gal model, not the 5 gal one DE really wanted.  The question is – I have a batch of IPA in the carboy now t DE I wanted to rack to a secondary.  I was considering racking the brew out of DE the carboy int my bottling bucket long enough to clean & sanitize the carbo DE then racking it back in.  But I am concerned about the extra airspsce in th DE 6.5 gal carboy.  Would I be better off to forget the secondary for this bat DE and obtain a 5 gal carboy to use next time? DE I would stick with the carboy rather than all the racking back and forth.  The risk of contamination and oxidation is too high.  Simply bottle as soon as fermentation is complete and you should be okay. I use strictly 5 gallon carboys, with the primary getting a blowoff tube. However, many use 6.5 gallon carboys with no blowoff for simplicity and conservation of beer volume.  I think a 5 gallon secondary would be preferable over a 6.5 gallon, simply because of the reduced head space.  In the primary, headspace is quickly purged of oxygen by the yeast as the make the heavier CO2. … nfx v2.0 [C0000] Relax.  Don’t worry.  Have a homebrew.            

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Dave Ely was concerned about excessive airspace in a 6.5 gallon carboy and the advisability of racking to his bottling bucket, cleaning and sanitizing the carboy, and racking back to the carboy for a secondary.  I would be more worried about aeration from racking twice than from excessive space in the 6.5 gallon carboy.  I think the best solution (probably because it is what I did) would be to get a 5 gallon carboy to use as a secondary.  I like using my 6.5 for a primary for the very reason that it has more space and less concern about blowing off.  I seldom use a blowoff tube, only an airlock.  I found a store in my area (Plano, Texas) which carries bottled water in glass jugs and bought one for $7.  In fact, I have two of them now.  In contrast, my 6.5 cost me $20. Charles Dewar asked about Gott coolers.  I use an Igloo 10 gallon cylindrical cooler which appears to be very similar to the Gott I could not find at the time I was looking.  The Igloo works fine, I use a 12" Phil’s Phalse Bottom and a Phil’s 10" sparge arm.  The spigot on the bottom of the cooler is easy to remove and a German Fass/Frisch 5 liter mini-keg bung from my local homebrew store fits the hole perfectly.  A 3/8" id vinyl siphon tube is a perfect fit for the hole in the bung and is the right size to fit the Phalse Bottom on one end and a valve from Brewer’s resource on the other.  I actually use a 3/8" od piece of plastic racking cane to connect the tubing at the bung to another piece of tubing at the Phalse Bottom to avoid having a length of very collapsible tubing under a lot of hot grain and water when sparging.  I will probably replace the piece of racking cane with copper to avoid a rumored fragility of the plastic cane. I have only made four batches using this setup but so far my only problems have been operator error rather than hardware. As to yeast saving, there has been quite a bit of discussion of this subject in Homebrew Digest as well here.  I have collected some of it and could e-mail what I have to you, if you would like.  It is not ordered yet, but there is some useable info there. Someone asked about kegging (bobrjp ?) and I would like to recommend a back issue of Zymurgy (Spring ‘95?) that might be available in a homebrew shop or from the publisher.  I found their aticle on kegging to be quite helpful.  If you can’t find it, e-mail me and I will look up the exact issue number. John Wilkinson Grapevine/Plano/Palestine, Texas

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Thanks for reading.  I have brewed about 50 gallons of beer since the new year (I just started in December).  My wife is going to have a baby any day and I have not had time to bottle the brew (to many people stopping by and calling all the time).  I did transfer the beer from the primary to a secondary which is plastic (I know you are not supposed to use plastic…that is my question). What problems may I experience with a plastic bucket as my secondary?  It has been in the primary for 10 days and I don’t expect the brew to be in the secondary for more than 2 weeks.  It is a white ale. Thank you in advance. Darren D. Taylor

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For just slightly over 3 weeks total, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.  Would’ve probably been OK even if you’d left it in the primary bucket, as long as the lid seals well and there wasn’t a ton of trub. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for reading.  I have brewed about 50 gallons of beer since the new year (I just started in December).  My wife is going to have a baby any day and I have not had time to bottle the brew (to many people stopping by and calling all the time).  I did transfer the beer from the primary to a secondary which is plastic (I know you are not supposed to use plastic…that is my question). What problems may I experience with a plastic bucket as my secondary?  It has been in the primary for 10 days and I don’t expect the brew to be in the secondary for more than 2 weeks.  It is a white ale. Thank you in advance. Darren D. Taylor

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Ditto to what Mike said, plastic works just fine for about a month.  Now boys, let’s not start that ranting about glass virsus plastic!!!! I have both and use both !! ED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For just slightly over 3 weeks total, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.  Would’ve probably been OK even if you’d left it in the primary bucket, as long as the lid seals well and there wasn’t a ton of trub. — Thanks for reading.  I have brewed about 50 gallons of beer since the new year (I just started in December).  My wife is going to have a baby any day and I have not had time to bottle the brew (to many people stopping by and calling all the time).  I did transfer the beer from the primary to a secondary which is plastic (I know you are not supposed to use plastic…that is my question). What problems may I experience with a plastic bucket as my secondary?  It has been in the primary for 10 days and I don’t expect the brew to be in the secondary for more than 2 weeks.  It is a white ale. Thank you in advance. Darren D. Taylor

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Of course, after you break one, provided you don’t bleed to death, you start saying to yourself, "I should have an extra one of each on hand for just such an occasion." -Brett (who owns 7- 6.5’s and 8- 5’s, of which 2 are holding a Rennerian CACA and 1 with a strawberry melomel) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t think using a 6.5 for a secondary would cause much of a problem, although using a 5 gallon for the secondary would eleminate any doubt. Also, if I had two 6.5s, I’d use theme both for primaries, 5s for secondaries, thereby doubling my fermentation capacity and removing a bottleneck in the production process. Hey, Pork… I like the way this guy thinks!  You ought to, also.  {:-) Then the next thought is… if I had 4 6.5s and 4 5s, I can have two 10 Gal batches fermenting at once… been there done that. John. —                            *** John P. Kolesar ***            *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

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I don’t think using a 6.5 for a secondary would cause much of a problem, although using a 5 gallon for the secondary would eleminate any doubt. Also, if I had two 6.5s, I’d use theme both for primaries, 5s for secondaries, thereby doubling my fermentation capacity and removing a bottleneck in the production process. Hey, Pork… I like the way this guy thinks!  You ought to, also.  {:-)

Then the next thought is… if I had 4 6.5s and 4 5s, I can have two 10 Gal batches fermenting at once… been there done that. John. —                            *** John P. Kolesar ***            *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

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When you rack to the secondary, the disturbance will cause some of the CO2 to come out of solution, forming a CO2 layer almost immediately. Since CO2 is heavier than air, this blanket will gradually increase, pushing all of the air out over time.    If you are really worried, you could always purge the carboy with CO2, the same way you would do a keg, but that’s probably overkill. jp

Ok, I don’t think that it will be that big of a deal then. I just see that when a glass starter kit is sold, it is usually a 6.5 and a 5 gallon carboy kit. I realize that you need the extra head space for primary so a 6.5 would be ideal. If it is racked after about 3 days, I think it should probably be ok to put it into another 6.5, because fermentation will still take place and it will have an airlock on it anyway. So as you have said it will still have the carbon dioxide coming off of it so it should be ok. It should blow out that airspace through the lock and fill it with fresh carbon dioxide. Thank for your help, Pork.

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I have looked in the books and would like to use a glass 6.5 gal carboy as a primary. I also have access to another 6.5 gallon carboy. Could I use this as a secondary or would it be to big of a head space?

It’ll be fine.  There will most likely still be some fermentation going on in the secondary which will purge most of the O2 out of the headspace and replace it with CO2.  Any small amounts of O2 which are left over won’t be enough to be concerned about. Personally I primary in 6.5 Gal and secondary in 5 Gal, but that’s only because I have both sized carboys. John. —                            *** John P. Kolesar ***            *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

Response:

When you rack to the secondary, the disturbance will cause some of the CO2 to come out of solution, forming a CO2 layer almost immediately. Since CO2 is heavier than air, this blanket will gradually increase, pushing all of the air out over time.    If you are really worried, you could always purge the carboy with CO2, the same way you would do a keg, but that’s probably overkill. jp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have looked in the books and would like to use a glass 6.5 gal carboy as a primary. I also have access to another 6.5 gallon carboy. Could I use this as a secondary or would it be to big of a head space? Pork, "wondering if 2 6.5’s will be alright or if a 6.5 and a 5 is needed."

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I have looked in the books and would like to use a glass 6.5 gal carboy as a primary. I also have access to another 6.5 gallon carboy. Could I use this as a secondary or would it be to big of a head space? Pork, "wondering if 2 6.5’s will be alright or if a 6.5 and a 5 is needed."

Response:

I don’t think using a 6.5 for a secondary would cause much of a problem, although using a 5 gallon for the secondary would eleminate any doubt. Also, if I had two 6.5s, I’d use theme both for primaries, 5s for secondaries, thereby doubling my fermentation capacity and removing a bottleneck in the production process. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have looked in the books and would like to use a glass 6.5 gal carboy as a primary. I also have access to another 6.5 gallon carboy. Could I use this as a secondary or would it be to big of a head space? Pork, "wondering if 2 6.5’s will be alright or if a 6.5 and a 5 is needed."

Response:

I don’t think using a 6.5 for a secondary would cause much of a problem, although using a 5 gallon for the secondary would eleminate any doubt. Also, if I had two 6.5s, I’d use theme both for primaries, 5s for secondaries, thereby doubling my fermentation capacity and removing a bottleneck in the production process.

Hey, Pork… I like the way this guy thinks!  You ought to, also.  {:-) — –DAsh obvious with attbi)

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Hi I transfered my brew to the secondary last week and its slowed down almost completely. Its a mexical ale and the temperatute in my room is about 72. Should I move it to an area of around 65 for a few days to settle out before bottling? Im going to prime it in a carboy before bottling in two litre plastic bottles. I plan to store the bottles in a storage room in the low sixties. Bill

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Cooling it down to 65F will speed the settling process.  Carbonation may take a long time to develop if the bottles are stored in the low 60s, depending on the yeast strain.  You might want to consider keeping it in the upper 60s for the first couple of weeks; after the beer is carbonated, then store it cool. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I transfered my brew to the secondary last week and its slowed down almost completely. Its a mexical ale and the temperatute in my room is about 72. Should I move it to an area of around 65 for a few days to settle out before bottling? Im going to prime it in a carboy before bottling in two litre plastic bottles. I plan to store the bottles in a storage room in the low sixties. Bill

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