Brewing Master

Question:

I beleive it’s up to each person to make up his/her mind about this subject…It is illegal in many places but legal in others, similar to Homebrewing, so don’t rush to judge people or scarring them with "YOU CAN KILL YOURSELF" !   I won’t rant about your reasons, but ignorance on the subject helps keep people away from this art, and the myths help keep your government’s liquor taxes rolling in… I suggest you read up on the subject and educate yourself.  One place to start is www.partyman.se (no affiliation). The scare stories of people going blind usually are from unscrupulous low-lifes who "mix" their liquor with such wonderful products as anti-freeze, or are too cheap to build a proper still and instead use lead soldering (toxic in the long run).   Beer mixed with methyl alcohol recently killed many poor people in an African country (it was added for extra kick). If done with sufficient knowledge, distilling is as safe as homebrewing (those who are quick to judge, take a minute and concider what would happen if you dropped 5 gal. of boiling wort all over yourselves). Case and point : When you produce alcohol by distillation, you need a mash. Minus the hops, this mash can be very similar to a beer mash. Will this mash make you go blind or "INTRODUCE YOU TO YOUR GOD" ? When distilled properly and based on your batch size, you throw out the first 2 oz (this contains the higher alcohols which boil off first).  Even if you were to keep these, in a concentrated state they would smell and taste horrible (paint thinner anyone?). If mixed into your resulting liquor, the taste will be affected but this certanly won’t kill you. These are just my opinions… Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And is moon shine illegal?  I hear that some homemade hard liquor has impurities that can kill a person or blind them.  How can that be? The principle reason of rmoonshine being illegal is taxes, the secondary reason is YES YOU CAN HURT OR KILL YOURSELF There are many different alcohols that are produced in fermentation, also heating non-toxic alcohols can create the toxic ones. Distillation is science of evaporation and condensation….One heat a wine or beer to a certain tempurature (I am not sharing what that temp is) which boils ethynol, but leaves the water behind (or most of it anyway), the evaporated ethynol is then run through a condenser, which is simply a long tube which allows the gas to cool and condense into a liquid which drips into the receiving vessel. (voila, moonshine) This really is dangerous though, and for a number of reasons: 1) If you aren’t careful, you can ignite the alcohol, and BOOM….. 2) If you boil the alcohol too high, you end-up with watered down isopropenol, which will you very sick (it’s rubbing alcohol normally gotten by pressure cooking wood) 3) if you condense too long you can get high concentrations of methynol (which will make you go blind over time) 4) Wine and beer contains many alcohols with ethyl being the principle alcohol as explained before, when heated properly they can combine. It is not uncommon to get MEK or Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone from distillation, THIS STUFF WILL DEFINITELY INTRODUCE YOU TO YOUR GOD AND I MEAN PERMANENTLY… If you really want to "still", but want to do it safely, you are better off using the freezing method…It won’t produce any high-proof grain-alcohol for you, but it will make a good brandy and it won’t hurt you. IT IS STILL ILLEGAL TO SEPARATE ALCOHOL IN THIS FASHION AND I DO NOT SUGGEST IT…only saying do this instead of that if you are going to do it anyway. — -Scot Mc Pherson -Ummm….Just Scot

Response:

 And is moon shine illegal?  I hear that some homemade hard liquor has impurities that can kill a person or blind them.  How can that be?

The principle reason of rmoonshine being illegal is taxes, the secondary reason is YES YOU CAN HURT OR KILL YOURSELF There are many different alcohols that are produced in fermentation, also heating non-toxic alcohols can create the toxic ones. Distillation is science of evaporation and condensation….One heat a wine or beer to a certain tempurature (I am not sharing what that temp is) which boils ethynol, but leaves the water behind (or most of it anyway), the evaporated ethynol is then run through a condenser, which is simply a long tube which allows the gas to cool and condense into a liquid which drips into the receiving vessel. (voila, moonshine) This really is dangerous though, and for a number of reasons: 1) If you aren’t careful, you can ignite the alcohol, and BOOM….. 2) If you boil the alcohol too high, you end-up with watered down isopropenol, which will you very sick (it’s rubbing alcohol normally gotten by pressure cooking wood) 3) if you condense too long you can get high concentrations of methynol (which will make you go blind over time) 4) Wine and beer contains many alcohols with ethyl being the principle alcohol as explained before, when heated properly they can combine. It is not uncommon to get MEK or Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone from distillation, THIS STUFF WILL DEFINITELY INTRODUCE YOU TO YOUR GOD AND I MEAN PERMANENTLY… If you really want to "still", but want to do it safely, you are better off using the freezing method…It won’t produce any high-proof grain-alcohol for you, but it will make a good brandy and it won’t hurt you. IT IS STILL ILLEGAL TO SEPARATE ALCOHOL IN THIS FASHION AND I DO NOT SUGGEST IT…only saying do this instead of that if you are going to do it anyway. — -Scot Mc Pherson -Ummm….Just Scot

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im sure that you guys know what the difference between moonshine and homebrew is.  And I know that half a dozen smart asses are going to say "Yeah one of them has gotst more of that alcohol stuff in it."  I am wondering what is different in the processes of making them. Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey? Also, my batch of Mead had an Initial Gravity of about 1.11.  Will it be able to carbonate itself when I add priming sugar?  Should I even add sugar? One more thing.  I added 2.5 ounces of ground cinnimon to 6 gallons of mead. Is that overkill?  If so, what should I do?

Response:

One final note on the moonshine issue: you do not need to run a still to increase ABV. One old-time way to do it is to use the "frozen heart" method, frequently used by cider brewers who want a little extra kick by making a true apple jack. If you don’t live substantially North of the Mason Dixon line (sorry to non-US readers), this technique is unavailable to you. For those of us in Yankee land (esp. the upper Midwest), you’re in luck. When you’ve finished making the highest alcohol content cider you can muster (18% is my best), rack the juice one last time into a fermenter bucket and take it out into the winter cold into a shaded place. After a few days at <5 deg F avg, bring it into an unheated garage or shed and poke open the icy mix to expose the "frozen heart". Drain this out into a clean container, and voila you have a jack of up to 30+% ABV. Warning: (1) The revenooers (i.e., ATF) do not find this the least bit amusing, as others have correctly noted. (2) Ciders typically have quite a few curious compounds lurking in them (like esters, phenols, etc.) that become quite concentrated in the final jack mix. They will lead to unmerciful hangovers to punish abusive drinkers. In the pre-temperance days, this commonplace ailment was known as "apple palsy". Best to you, cj

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im sure that you guys know what the difference between moonshine and homebrew is.  And I know that half a dozen smart asses are going to say "Yeah one of them has gotst more of that alcohol stuff in it."  I am wondering what is different in the processes of making them.  And is moon shine illegal?  I hear that some homemade hard liquor has impurities that can kill a person or blind them.  How can that be?  Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey? Also, my batch of Mead had an Initial Gravity of about 1.11.  Will it be able to carbonate itself when I add priming sugar?  Should I even add sugar? One more thing.  I added 2.5 ounces of ground cinnimon to 6 gallons of mead. Is that overkill?  If so, what should I do?

Response:

I once had a neighbor who made slivowicz (spelling not guaranteed) by distilling wine he made from plums.  It was quite palatable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey? Tough, certainly.  But it is possible.   I once had some homemade whisky that was verrry nice.   It was made by a friend of a friend down in South Louisiana.   It was definitely a hobby, since there were several oil wells in his sugar cane fields, and since he had the money he took the time and effort to do it right – including aging.   It tasted like a good, but young, Bourbon. Now that I think about it, it was probably the most expensive whisky I’ve ever had – not that he would have any idea how much it cost him to make it.

– SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net.

Response:

The difference is the process of distillation. Engaging in distillation without a license is illegal in the U.S. Do not believe people who say that there is an exemption for "private use"; all steam distillation is illegal, in fact, some laboratory equipment used for distillation requires a license just to buy. During the distillation, higher alcohols (methanol) come out first, these need to be discarded (the inability to discard these, is the cause of blindness that you heard rumored of). Can you make good whiskey or scotch at home. It is extremely difficult, most handmade distillation equipment (column still) is good at creating clear grain alcohol, but poor at producing/retaining the flavor elements necessary for good liquors (needs a pot still, which is significantly less efficient than a column still). This is why the home still business sells a lot of flavorings to add; you produce the straight alcohol and then add the flavorings to try and fool the tastebuds that you are making the authentic liquor. Then you have the difficulty in aging the alcohol. Specifically, making a gallon and storing it in a gallon cask, gives much more exposure to the wood than making 30 gallons and storing in a 30 gallon cask. Can you produce good whiskey at home? Yes, but it takes a lot of work and time (are you willing to wait 15 years between batches, like commercial distillers do?) Finally, if you are caught making illegal/untaxed liquor (and selling it?), the ATF can take your possessions, your car, and your house. I live just 15 mins north of the self-declared Moonshine Capital of the World (Franklin County, VA) and a year doesn’t go by without some 60 year old moonshiner getting busted and, if convicted, they take his home and his land. Good luck, Dan Cole

Response:

Also, my batch of Mead had an Initial Gravity of about 1.11.  Will it be able to carbonate itself when I add priming sugar?  Should I even add

sugar? That depends on when you prime it.  Personally, I wouldn’t do it. Still meads are very nice. One more thing.  I added 2.5 ounces of ground cinnimon to 6 gallons of mead. Is that overkill?  If so, what should I do?

That sounds like a helluva lot.  You may have to let that age for a while (several years).  What you may want to do is make a batch of plain mead and blend the two. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html Before you buy.

Response:

"Moonshine" is appears not to be illegal if made for you/your friends consumption in New Zealand.  Lucky sods.  Good brew shops there sell very simplified kits for the production of liquers and spirits, with very user-friendly stills you can operate in the kitchen. The thing you notice about these kits is that they are geared to produce as much neat, neutral alcohol at as high a strength as possible.  The stills typically have a fractionating column capable of producing upwards of 70% alcohol.  The first few ounces of distillate are thrown away (containing ketones and aldehydes from fermentation by-products) and the final spirit is cleaned up by filtering through charcoal (Jim Beam style).  Flavourings are added afterwards as concentrates, then diluted to about 40% alcohol.  100% safe and legal in NZ. The addition of flavourings rather than trying to get the flavour by traditional processes is because it’s so difficult to get the process right, and ageing takes so long, usually in big barrels.  Scotch is a minimum of (I think) 7 years in oak casks, Brandy 3-4 years, Rum 3 years.  the better brands aim for much longer than this. Interestingly, "Cane Spirit", sold at high alcohol contents, is actually a rum which has not been aged. Making "good" spirits at home is almost impossible by traditional methods. Certainly, you couldn’t compete with the big distilleries for product quality or price. I have, however, experienced quite acceptable Grappa (unaged, high strength brandy), plum brandies and orange liquers which were "hand made".  Quite yummy, but not at all sophisticated. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey? Tough, certainly.  But it is possible.   I once had some homemade whisky that was verrry nice.   It was made by a friend of a friend down in South Louisiana.   It was definitely a hobby, since there were several oil wells in his sugar cane fields, and since he had the money he took the time and effort to do it right – including aging.   It tasted like a good, but young, Bourbon. Now that I think about it, it was probably the most expensive whisky I’ve ever had – not that he would have any idea how much it cost him to make it.

Response:

Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey?

Tough, certainly.  But it is possible.   I once had some homemade whisky that was verrry nice.   It was made by a friend of a friend down in South Louisiana.   It was definitely a hobby, since there were several oil wells in his sugar cane fields, and since he had the money he took the time and effort to do it right – including aging.   It tasted like a good, but young, Bourbon. Now that I think about it, it was probably the most expensive whisky I’ve ever had – not that he would have any idea how much it cost him to make it.

Response:

Im sure that you guys know what the difference between moonshine and homebrew is.  And I know that half a dozen smart asses are going to say "Yeah one of them has gotst more of that alcohol stuff in it."  I am wondering what is different in the processes of making them.

Homebrew is what you get when you make homemade beer.  Moonshine is alcohol obtained by distillation.   Also, "One of them has gotst more of that alcohol stuff in it".   And is moon shine illegal? In the USA it is.  I hear that some homemade hard liquor has impurities that can kill a person or blind them.  How can that be?

Using an old auto radiator for a condenser. Adding poison such as antifreeze or methanol or formaldehyde, to give it a little "kick".   Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey? Define fancy.  Also, scotch IS whiskey. I wouldn’t even try it.  I think it would take too much equipment, too much time, and too much talent to produce anything drinkalble, let alone fancy.  Good whiskey takes years of aging to produce. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This, and the fact that it is illegal is enough to keep me out of it.

Response:

Distillation VS. uh…brewing As I understand Moonshine is illegal, under Federal law.  The stuff in Africa was spiked by something crazy, like antifreeze or something. Andrew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im sure that you guys know what the difference between moonshine and homebrew is.  And I know that half a dozen smart asses are going to say "Yeah one of them has gotst more of that alcohol stuff in it."  I am wondering what is different in the processes of making them.  And is moon shine illegal?  I hear that some homemade hard liquor has impurities that can kill a person or blind them.  How can that be?  Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey? Also, my batch of Mead had an Initial Gravity of about 1.11.  Will it be able to carbonate itself when I add priming sugar?  Should I even add sugar? One more thing.  I added 2.5 ounces of ground cinnimon to 6 gallons of mead. Is that overkill?  If so, what should I do?

Response:

Im sure that you guys know what the difference between moonshine and homebrew is.  And I know that half a dozen smart asses are going to say "Yeah one of them has gotst more of that alcohol stuff in it."  I am wondering what is different in the processes of making them.  And is moon shine illegal?  I hear that some homemade hard liquor has impurities that can kill a person or blind them.  How can that be?  Would it be tough for a homebrewer to try to make some fancy scotch or whiskey? Also, my batch of Mead had an Initial Gravity of about 1.11.  Will it be able to carbonate itself when I add priming sugar?  Should I even add sugar? One more thing.  I added 2.5 ounces of ground cinnimon to 6 gallons of mead. Is that overkill?  If so, what should I do?

Response: