Brewing Master

Question:

I’m trying to learn more about all-grain brewing, as I’d like to get the necessary equipment and try an all grain batch sometime next year.   I have a few procedural & terminology questions:

Check out "Wanna Mash?"  at listermann.com Dan Listermann

Response:

-What is a "protein rest"?  What is the right temperature range, and what does it do?

A protein rest is something that isn’t required  Not for the vast majority of malts.  So skip it your first time out.  It’s only really important when using a lot of undermodified malt (very difficult to get these days) or a lot of adjunct (corn, rice, etc).  It breaks down larger haze-forming proteins into smaller ones which can, for example, provide better head.  It also breaks them down into smaller parts that make good yeast food.  But fully modified grain will give you enough, anyway, so don’t worry. -What’s the right amount of water to use in the mash (How much per lb. of grain)?

1 quart per lb, or 1.2 qts per lb.  Up to even 1.5. I’ll call the kettles 1-2-3 from the top down:  1 is the top, 3 is the bottom

1 is your Hot Liquor Tank 2 is your Mash Tun 3 is your Kettle Might as well call them their right names      -I believe proper ‘protein rest’ temp is 130 (Is that right?), so I want the water about 10 degrees above

If you do employ a P.R., then 130 is correct.  Some folks will say 122, but that will break down head-forming proteins and can make for poor foam retention.       that, since the grain will knock about that much off when it’s added -Protein rest for 20 minutes (Is that right?)

At very most 20.  I’d go 10 to 15 just to make sure you don’t overshoot.  Actually, I’d just skip it altogether -Increase to 155 degrees F for mash (How long?  30-45 mins?  Does it depend on how much grain?)

No.  You want to rest at 151 to 160.  Lower if you want less body and more alcohol, higher for more body and less alcohol.  I find 153 to be a good balance.  You should rest at least 60 minutes.  Conversion on the higher end will only take 20 minutes or so, but you should stay for 60 to 70 minutes anyway because it will help you run it off better, and extract more sugars. -When you start the mash, also start heating your sparge water in kettle 1 (To what temp?  155 also?)

170F.  No more.  155 is too low.  You may also want to bring your sparge water pH down to 5.5 to 6.0.  NO LOWER!!!  Use acid blend for this.  I usually only bring down the pH of the last 1/3 of the sparge water, since the reason for doing it is to help avoid tannin extraction when the wort SG drops really low (during the end of the sparge). -At the end of the mash, open the valve on kettle 2, and let the wort flow into kettle 3

Recirculate first.  You should recirc 5 to 10 quarts to set the filter bed and help clear the runnings a bit.  Run some out and then carefully pour it back into the top of the Mash Tun. -When the flow slows, open the valve on kettle 1 and start sparging

Yes, but remember don’t sparge too fast.  You want the sparge to take a minimum of 45 minutes.  I usually go 75 minutes.  The slower you take, the better extraction you’ll get, but beyond 75-90 minutes the extra sugars you get are minimal so it doesn’t make sense.  You might want to to a "dry run" with just water, so you can practice running off slowly. -Collect about 10 1/2 gallons of wort in kettle 3 (I assume I’ll lose 1/4 to 1/2 gallon during boil)

You’ll probably lose a lot more than that.  Count on more like 2 gallons. I collect 15 gallons and boil down to 12, and my burner isn’t so powerful so if you have a real beefy burner it could be more. -From here on I think I got it.  Boil as usual, hop it up, ferment. Anything else different?

You’ve got it for the most part.  Skip the protein rest the first time out, though.  I even skip it when using 20% corn or rice, and have no problems with my beer. cheers, -Alan — — Alan McKay http://www.bodensatz.com/

Response:

I’m trying to learn more about all-grain brewing, as I’d like to get the necessary equipment and try an all grain batch sometime next year.   I have a few procedural & terminology questions: -What is a "protein rest"?  What is the right temperature range, and what does it do?

It is supposed to help degrade larger proteins into smaller ones.  This can help provide additional nutrients for the yeast, and can also help reduce chill haze.  The right temperature range is in the 120-130F range (more or less). With most modern malts, a protein rest is not needed because the proteins have already been sufficiently broken down during malting.  A long protein rest can actually kill your head retention. I generally go with a short (15 minutes or so) protein rest at around 130F. -What’s the right amount of water to use in the mash (How much per lb. of grain)?

Around 1.25 quarts per pound is a good ballpark figure, but mash thickness can vary over a fairly wide range. I don’t measure my strike water precisely.  Since I mash in a pot instead of a cooler, the exact strike water volume isn’t critical for me, since I’m not relying on a precise water/grain ratio to hit my target temperature.  I just add water until the mash looks "about right", then adjust the temperature by turning on the heat. -Can someone give me a simple overview of brewing a 10 gallon all-grain batch, using a 3 tier system?  Here’s what I   expect.  How close/far off am I? I’ll call the kettles 1-2-3 from the top down:  1 is the top, 3 is the bottom -Bring your water in kettle 2 (Amount dependent on answer to the question above) to about 140 degrees F.      -I believe proper ‘protein rest’ temp is 130 (Is that right?), so I want the water about 10 degrees above       that, since the grain will knock about that much off when it’s added -Protein rest for 20 minutes (Is that right?)

So far, so good. -Increase to 155 degrees F for mash (How long?  30-45 mins?  Does it depend on how much grain?)

You’ll probably have complete conversion after 45 minutes at 155F.  You can always check with iodine, to make sure.  The time does not depend on the amount of grain, since the grain itself contains the enzymes which do the conversion — i.e., more grain means you have more enzymes too! If you want a more fermentable wort (drier beer, more alcohol), do your conversion rest at around 149F instead of 155F.  Conversion will take longer at this temperature.  What I generally do is that if I am still getting a positive iodine test after an hour, I bump it up a few degrees to get it to finish. Make sure you have an accurate thermometer (those floating glass ones the homebrew shops sell are not very good), and make sure the temperature of your mash is fairly even throughout.  You will need to stir the mash thoroughly to even out the temperature. -When you start the mash, also start heating your sparge water in kettle 1 (To what temp?  155 also?)

No, you want it hotter than that.  Around 170F, at least; some people go even hotter.  I generally shoot for 170-175F on my sparge water temp. -At the end of the mash, open the valve on kettle 2, and let the wort flow into kettle 3

You will want to recirculate the first gallon or two, which will contain lots of particulate matter.  Running this cloudy wort back through the grain bed will filter out most of the particles. -When the flow slows, open the valve on kettle 1 and start sparging

Unless you intend to "batch sparge", you don’t need to wait for the flow to slow.  Just open the valve on kettle 1 as soon as you’ve stopped recirculating (i.e., when you start actually collecting the wort in kettle #3).  Tweak the setting of the valve so that the water level stays a little above the top of the grain. -Collect about 10 1/2 gallons of wort in kettle 3 (I assume I’ll lose 1/4 to 1/2 gallon during boil)

I would collect closer to 11-1/2 gallons… 1/4 to 1/2 gallon seems like a pretty small amount of evaporation, unless you’ve got a pretty wimpy burner. -From here on I think I got it.  Boil as usual, hop it up, ferment. Anything else different?

Yeah… be prepared for a very long brew day, but also a much-increased level of personal satisfaction, when you pop that first bottle of all-grain brew open and take a taste!  I’ve been brewing all-grain for about three years now, and I really like the idea of making beer "from scratch", and also the extra degree of control it gives me. I really appreciate anyone who has the time & knowledge to answer this for me. Thanks!!

Cheers!  (And good luck with your first all-grain.) —

Response:

I’ll also recommend Zymurgy ‘95 Special grain issue which has numerous one-page descriptions of step, infusion mashing, etc.  Very simple.

I’ll second this.  It’s an excellent issue, and got me started all-graining.  The IPA recipe in the article on infusion mashing is a good first all-grain recipe, too, and the one that my own frequently-brewed IPA is based on. I referred to this issue again when I tried my first (only so far) decoction, and it was useful there too. Oh, and I’ll agree about the protein rest: don’t bother with it.  Once you’ve done a few batches, you might experiment with a protein rest, but it’s almost never necessary. Mark

Response:

-What is a "protein rest"?  What is the right temperature range, and what does it do?

I know you aren’t asking this but I really don’t do this rest. -What’s the right amount of water to use in the mash (How much per lb. of grain)?

I use about .8 to .9 quarts per pound of grain.   I try to make it look like oatmeal. I’ll also recommend Zymurgy ‘95 Special grain issue which has numerous one-page descriptions of step, infusion mashing, etc.  Very simple. Phil

Response:

I’m trying to learn more about all-grain brewing, as I’d like to get the necessary equipment and try an all grain batch sometime next year.   I have a few procedural & terminology questions: -What is a "protein rest"?  What is the right temperature range, and what does it do? -What’s the right amount of water to use in the mash (How much per lb. of grain)? -Can someone give me a simple overview of brewing a 10 gallon all-grain batch, using a 3 tier system?  Here’s what I   expect.  How close/far off am I? I’ll call the kettles 1-2-3 from the top down:  1 is the top, 3 is the bottom -Bring your water in kettle 2 (Amount dependent on answer to the question above) to about 140 degrees F.      -I believe proper ‘protein rest’ temp is 130 (Is that right?), so I want the water about 10 degrees above       that, since the grain will knock about that much off when it’s added -Protein rest for 20 minutes (Is that right?) -Increase to 155 degrees F for mash (How long?  30-45 mins?  Does it depend on how much grain?) -When you start the mash, also start heating your sparge water in kettle 1 (To what temp?  155 also?) -At the end of the mash, open the valve on kettle 2, and let the wort flow into kettle 3 -When the flow slows, open the valve on kettle 1 and start sparging -Collect about 10 1/2 gallons of wort in kettle 3 (I assume I’ll lose 1/4 to 1/2 gallon during boil) -From here on I think I got it.  Boil as usual, hop it up, ferment. Anything else different? I really appreciate anyone who has the time & knowledge to answer this for me. Thanks!! — Brew on! (Looking for other homebrewers on Seattle’s east side.  If you’re from around here, e-mail me!)

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