CAN WE SPLIT THIS GROUP?

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Question:

There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need to learn the basics. We need to split. As a longtime brewer I can not sift through all the same old novice questions to find one interesting topic. Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" Cheers M

Already there. Try the Homebrew Digest (http://hbd.org). Cheers, — Andrew Ager I am a: Homebrewer Chicago, IL Ex-historian andrew-ager at nwu.edu Budding beer geek

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need to learn the basics. We need to split. As a longtime brewer I can not sift through all the same old novice questions to find one interesting topic. Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" What about those who are not in your chosen catagories? When I started brewing (2yrs ago) I needed a lot of help, not because I couldn’t read a book, but because I needed general encouragement that what I was experiencing was to be expected etc etc. If I only went on to a grain brewers site, and not novices, I would not be able to feed this advice back down to others who are experiencing similar problems to what I have had.

Very good point. If there is a novice only site who will they (we) be able to get advice from? I recommend that people make sure the headings are accurate as to the content of the message, so I can ignore things like "Extract Lager recipes wanted" if I want to. That way I am sifting only thorugh headings.

Always good advice in any newsgroup. ** The problem with the average family today is that it’s impossible to support it and the government on one income.

Response:

I understand the sentiment, but what good would a group by novices for novices be? If you ask me (I know, you didn’t, but I’m being hypothetical here), this group has a nice level of message activity. Any more messages and it would be impossible to keep up with like nanam. Any fewer and it would be like one of those groups that dropped below the threshhold of usability where the only messages are captioned "Make $$$ fast" or "Is anyone here?" Meanwhile, it’s easy to detect and ignore a newbie question. Frankly, you should take a turn at helping newbies. I think most of the regulars do. Besides, if you split the group, do you really expect brewers to segregate themselves properly? | Tim Robinson | Lonely Web page. Please visit. | | "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by | | men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." L. Brandeis | Sorry about the bogus e-mail address. I get too much e-mail spam. Just use the one in the sig. Brewers, check out http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr/beer

Response:

I think it is good to have both advanced and beginners in the group,It is a great way for all brewers concerned to learn from each other. Say a beginning brewer asks a question and there is a advanced brewer who thinks they have all the answers, but they read the post from another brewer advising a newbie on a problem, he might learn somthing from the post he didn’t know! Just my 2 cents worth!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(RBarnes001) writes: Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" I think that’s too confining "Why All Grain" vs "Novices"? I’ve been brewing for 15 years and have yet to make an all grain batch. That certainly doesn’t make me a novice! I know people who do all grain, and would just as soon prefer to do extract or partial.

I think All Grain 5 years + or just the the people that are to good to be a help to the rest of us can play by them selves Tim all grain 7 months

Response:

I don’t think that is a good idea–We just might, someday become grain brewers. BillHill (one word, eight letters, two syllables)

Response:

What about those who are not in your chosen catagories? When I started brewing (2yrs ago) I needed a lot of help, not because I couldn’t read a book, but because I needed general encouragement that what I was experiencing was to be expected etc etc. If I only went on to a grain brewers site, and not novices, I would not be able to feed this advice back down to others who are experiencing similar problems to what I have had. It is interesting to view differing opinions as to what others think about problems. I recommend that people make sure the headings are accurate as to the content of the message, so I can ignore things like "Extract Lager recipes wanted" if I want to. That way I am sifting only thorugh headings. Best regards Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers M

Response:

First you all ready have this ‘new group’ …. HBD Secound, I think the ‘5′ year mark is a little much. How about ALL GRAIN, DECOCTION MASHING 1/2 BBL FOR 20 YEARS? How long have you been brewing, 5 years and 2 days? I understand your frustration with the same questions over and over again about plastic buckets and dry yeast, but we have serious brewers here that have only been in the hobby for a year or so. How about rec.crafts.brewing.help and rec.crafts.brewing.advanced? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need to learn the basics. We need to split. As a longtime brewer I can not sift through all the same old novice questions to find one interesting topic. Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" Cheers M

Response:

If the advanced brewers go off in a group of their own, who will be there to answer the questions of the newbies??? We all need to stick together.

Hmmm, not meaning to be fickle or anything, folks. But I think I just changed my mind. I agree with Dion on this one. Ignore what I said before -Alan — Alan McKay Nortel Technologies Norstar Team amckay at nortel dot ca

Response:

A little compassion–we were ALL newbies at one time, and even experts can sometimes find insight from "stupid beginner" questions. Paul Troy NY

Response:

There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need to learn the basics. We need to split.

Replying to Tom’s post because the original never got to me. In my opinion, splitting this newsgroup is a BAD idea! Okay, there are newbies and old-timers. Granted. Now, if we split the newsgroups, who are the newbies going to get help from? All the old-timers (at least theoretically) will be in the other newsgroup. So now, to get answers, the newbies have to post their questions to the old-timers group. This does not make any sense at all to me. I figure that, during my first dozen batches or so, I got a lot of help from old-timers on this group. The only way I can pay them back is by offering my help to newbies. That’s the duty I accepted when I came looking for help myself.

Response:

There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need to learn the basics. We need to split. Replying to Tom’s post because the original never got to me. In my opinion, splitting this newsgroup is a BAD idea! Okay, there are newbies and old-timers. Granted. Now, if we split the newsgroups, who are the newbies going to get help from? All the old-timers (at least theoretically) will be in the other newsgroup. So now, to get answers, the newbies have to post their questions to the old-timers group. This does not make any sense at all to me. I figure that, during my first dozen batches or so, I got a lot of help from old-timers on this group. The only way I can pay them back is by offering my help to newbies. That’s the duty I accepted when I came looking for help myself.

I’ll drink to that! ACLU + NEA = ANARCHY

Response:

Although I agree with you that the group should be split, I most certainly don’t agree with where you want to divide it. There are some people who’ve been brewing for decades whom I’d still consider "novices", while there are others who’ve been brewing only 2 or 3 years who are anything but novice. But I’m all for a split. Maybe : rec.crafts.brewing.extract rec.crafts.brewing.allgrain or rec.crafts.brewing.novice rec.crafts.brewing.advanced cheers, -Alan — Alan McKay Nortel Technologies Norstar Team amckay at nortel dot ca

Response:

Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" Cheers M

Why not split into "North America" and "Rest of World". I get the distinct impression that (as much as I love this NG, it’s participants and people from North America) , from the general tone and comments, many participants think that this is rec.crafts.brewing.USA Hey fellas — this is CYBERSPACE. Barry from Brisbane Australia

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hobby for a year or so. How about rec.crafts.brewing.help and rec.crafts.brewing.advanced? I can support the help and advanced sections. That way, those that need or want to help have a place to go, and those that don’t want to sift through the basic questions have their place too. A word of caution… it will only work as long as enough advanced brewers read through the help group. If not, we’ll have a whole bunch of lost souls trying desperately to brew good beer without the wisdom of those who have been through it. Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" Regardless of what happens, we’ll still have to deal with all the crumby spam. Dave (Almost) Three Acre Brewery Home of Big Sap Brown Ale and Amber Waves Honey Wheat

I would like to see a news group titled something like "rec.crafts.brewing.psychic.BS" . ACLU + NEA = ANARCHY

Response:

I’ve seen this discussion on other groups. Your point is well taken, but problematic. The usefullness of a newsgroup comes not from "newbie" questions but expert answers. Most people respond not with a simple answer but an in depth response with information that veterans may find useful. Yes, there are a lot of questions to sort through, but a new newsgroup won’t solve that. For more advanced topics, consider an email list like HBD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need to learn the basics. We need to split. As a longtime brewer I can not sift through all the same old novice questions to find one interesting topic. Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" Cheers M

Response:

: There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need : to learn the basics. We need to split. : As a longtime brewer I can not sift through all the same old novice : questions to find one interesting topic. : Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES" But who is gonna answer the "NOVICES" questions? That is th problem with two groups. Let’s keep it one group. I can filter the messages with my eyes. Just use the standard [Q] format when a beginner asks a question. Then you can just ignore those messages if you are not willing to help out a fellow brewer. Better yet, just subscribe to HBD, and don’t bother with this group. The posts there are quite advanced if that is what you are looking for. IMHO Seperate beginer and advance group splits don’t help to promote the hobby. It gives the impression that advanced people are not willing to help those who need it most. I for one will remain here to help when I can. And, to ask for help when I need it! :{) What do we call beginner questions? I have never made a lambic (on purpose . So, when I start, how do I decide if I am a novice, or an advanced all grainer? Not all advanced brewers are all grainers. I know many extract brewers that have been brewing longer than me. (I am at 6+ years.) It is hard to quantify what catagory. — Sysop – Home Brew University BBS Brew City Campus 414-238-9074 Genealogy Search: Brickner, Kane, Kimbro, LaClaire, Snyder|Snider, Seecs|Seetch|Sich, and Thorton.

Response:

Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES"

I think that’s too confining "Why All Grain" vs "Novices"? I’ve been brewing for 15 years and have yet to make an all grain batch. That certainly doesn’t make me a novice! I know people who do all grain, and would just as soon prefer to do extract or partial.

Response:

hobby for a year or so. How about rec.crafts.brewing.help and rec.crafts.brewing.advanced?

I can support the help and advanced sections. That way, those that need or want to help have a place to go, and those that don’t want to sift through the basic questions have their place too. A word of caution… it will only work as long as enough advanced brewers read through the help group. If not, we’ll have a whole bunch of lost souls trying desperately to brew good beer without the wisdom of those who have been through it. Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES"

Regardless of what happens, we’ll still have to deal with all the crumby spam. Dave (Almost) Three Acre Brewery Home of Big Sap Brown Ale and Amber Waves Honey Wheat

Response:

IMHO My vote is to keep things as they are. We don’t need an other news group.

Response:

There are Brewers who need a newsgroup and there are beginers who need to learn the basics. We need to split.

Can’t say that I disagree with the premise. There is a pretty wide divergence in experience/knowledge levels for a single group to satisfy. As a longtime brewer I can not sift through all the same old novice questions to find one interesting topic.

Which DOES, on occasion, present itself. ;-) Lets split between "ALL GRAIN 5YEARS +" and "NOVICES"

I’d opt for keeping rec.crafts.brewing (because it is fairly well known, easy to find, and there are a few links to it already), and opening rec.crafts brewing.advanced (which would be enough of a descriptor to identify the focus of the group). RCBA could "kick it up a level" for the guys (and gals) that have been through the first few "zymurgy years" of learning how to brew, and are seriously focused on advanced topics. This is a topic worthy of further discussion, and I personally would like to hear from anybody (beginners through grizzled veterans alike) who has a point of view. Naturally, I have altered my email header in a futile attempt to avoid spam, so replies not directed to the NG should be forwarded to the forum, though. -Sully (11+ years, all grain, BJCP Certified (National qualified, just working on experience points… I’m with you on this one, Mike.)

Response:

Just skip the posts that you consider a waste of your time, or beneath your skill level. Actually, a part of most hobbies is the interaction between newcomers and old-timers. Both parties can learn, and benefit not only from the hobby related information, but also the fellowship of sharing an interest. If you object to helping newbies (both brewing and newsgroup newbies), then just ignore them. Tom Unsolicited advertisements cheerfully ignored.

Response:

With any decent newsreader, it should take about 1 minute a day to browse the entire amount of articles posted and determine which ones you want to read and/or reply to. Just ignore the rest. If the advanced brewers go off in a group of their own, who will be there to answer the questions of the newbies??? We all need to stick together. Besides, does the original proponent of the split have any idea of how hard it is to create a new newsgroup and the formal procedures it takes? dion — http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer – Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California

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