Brewing Master

Question:

I suspect [Campden] is analogous to using potassium sorbate.

Close, but not so.  Campden tablets contain sodium metabisulfite and a binding, inert filler material.  The material is used for two reasons. First, to help the active ingredient (sodium metabisulfite) bind together into a tablet (it is a salt, so does not bind into a tablet form without aid).  Second, the amount of sodium metabisulfite in a Campden tablet is so small that even if it could bind into a tablet, the tablet would be very small.  The filler material therefore makes up a volume that, when tabletized, is easy to handle and inspect for completeness.  Personally, I wish they contained less filler, but they are what they are and I am grateful they exist.  Measuring the small amount of sodium metabisulfite required to treat a gallon of must would be trying, while crushing a Campden tablet just takes a minute or two. Campden tablets (named after the formulator, so the name is always capitalized) made and sold in the United States typically contain an amount of sodium metabisulfite sufficient to add about 45 ppm of SO2 to a U.S. gallon of must.  Those made in the British Commonwealth usually contain enough sodium metabisulfite to add about 45 ppm of SO2 to an Imperial gallon. Sodium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate are not analogous.  The first is a potential fungicide and bacteriocide and the second is a preservative with a potential side effect of rendering yeast unable to propagate (both are "potential" because they are dose dependent). Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

Response:

Campden tablet are mainly sodium metabisulphate (93%) with 5% potassium benzoate and 2% polyvinyl pyrrolidone.

Where did you get these figures?  I ask because that seems wrong to me.  I’ve read the formula for Campden several times but all of my chemistry references are at work.  I seem to recall the amount of sodium metabisulfite in Campden was no more than 65%, but I could be wrong. Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

Response:

I haven’t seen any supplier for sodium metabisulfite. I have been using Campden tablets but I think I am going to start using potassuim metabisulfite. which one is better??? The following is from Presque Isle Potassium Metabisulfite, powder, food grade. Theoretically it is 57% SO2. 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons yields about 40 to 45 ppm of SO2. One gram per gallon equals roughly 150 ppm SO2 (see p xx for calculating ppm). Replace with fresh material at least every other year and keep in a dry place. I make 5 gallons at a time so I would think that the 1/4 tsp. would be much easier than crushing 5 Campden tablets. Arkansas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suspect [Campden] is analogous to using potassium sorbate. Close, but not so.  Campden tablets contain sodium metabisulfite and a binding, inert filler material.  The material is used for two reasons. First, to help the active ingredient (sodium metabisulfite) bind together into a tablet (it is a salt, so does not bind into a tablet form without aid).  Second, the amount of sodium metabisulfite in a Campden tablet is so small that even if it could bind into a tablet, the tablet would be very small.  The filler material therefore makes up a volume that, when tabletized, is easy to handle and inspect for completeness.  Personally, I wish they contained less filler, but they are what they are and I am grateful they exist.  Measuring the small amount of sodium metabisulfite required to treat a gallon of must would be trying, while crushing a Campden tablet just takes a minute or two. Campden tablets (named after the formulator, so the name is always capitalized) made and sold in the United States typically contain an amount of sodium metabisulfite sufficient to add about 45 ppm of SO2 to a U.S. gallon of must.  Those made in the British Commonwealth usually contain enough sodium metabisulfite to add about 45 ppm of SO2 to an Imperial gallon. Sodium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate are not analogous.  The first is a potential fungicide and bacteriocide and the second is a preservative with a potential side effect of rendering yeast unable to propagate (both are "potential" because they are dose dependent). Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Campden tablet are mainly sodium metabisulphate (93%) with 5% potassium benzoate and 2% polyvinyl pyrrolidone. Where did you get these figures?  I ask because that seems wrong to me.  I’ve read the formula for Campden several times but all of my chemistry references are at work.  I seem to recall the amount of sodium metabisulfite in Campden was no more than 65%, but I could be wrong.

I suspect he got the figures from the label of a tub of Boots Campden tablets. That’s exactly what it says on mine. I use Chempro SDP or bleach. I can’t think why or where I got the tub of Campden tablets from. Well, from Boots, obviously, but beyound that it’s a blank. — Andy Davison                      

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Campden tablet are mainly sodium metabisulphate (93%) with 5% potassium benzoate and 2% polyvinyl pyrrolidone. Where did you get these figures?  I ask because that seems wrong to me.  I’ve read the formula for Campden several times but all of my chemistry references are at work.  I seem to recall the amount of sodium metabisulfite in Campden was no more than 65%, but I could be wrong. I suspect he got the figures from the label of a tub of Boots Campden tablets. That’s exactly what it says on mine. I use Chempro SDP or bleach. I can’t think why or where I got the tub of Campden tablets from. Well, from Boots, obviously, but beyound that it’s a blank.

Spot on. I have a really old bottle and a tub. The use-by date on the tub is 1996 and they didn’t put them on when the bottle was bought. Or do Campden tablets breed in little-used cupboards and other dark corners? — Cyclops

Response:

I haven’t seen any supplier for sodium metabisulfite. I have been using Campden tablets but I think I am going to start using potassuim metabisulfite. which one is better???

Potassium metabisulfite is better than sodium metabisulfite if for no other reason than that it doesn’t contain sodium.  Both, however, are salts.  I have never had any problem finding either sodium or potassium metabisulfite.  Every single homebrew/winemaking supply store I’ve ever walked into has had both. If you only make 5-gallon batches, then using the bulk chemical makes sense (as long as you don’t mistake it for acid blend and add 16 times the required amount:-).  But I make an awful lot of experimental 1-gallon batches to develop new recipes, and for these, Campden is the perfect product.  Each has a place in the winemaker’s supply cabinet, and I wouldn’t be caught without both…. Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks Andy.  All I can say is that my memory must be slipping, but I’m still going to recheck my references Monday. Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

Response:

I am a beer brewer just starting out in winemaking. In the homebrew (mainly beer) shops here in Australia, they sell a powdered form of Sodium Metabisulphate for sterilization purposes.  I have read that this is not really a good chemical for beermaking sterilization and use bleach instead to keep my gear sanitized. I have also read that this has arisen because the sodium metabisulphate is used in winemaking and hence the beermaking people have also used it (without understanding that it is not so suitable) However – in winemaking, I commonly read about Camden tablets and the need to crush these tablets.  Are they the same as the powdered sodium metabisulphate sold here – I have never sen camden tablets in the shops. Thanks Barry

Response:

I use Camden tablets in cider making to prevent yeast from utilizing added sweetening sugars.  It is added after the fermentation is complete.  The package says sodium metabisulfite and I do crush the tablets prior to using them.  I suspect it is analogous to using potassium sorbate.  And yes, I warn people who are going to drink the cider that it contains sulfites. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a beer brewer just starting out in winemaking. In the homebrew (mainly beer) shops here in Australia, they sell a powdered form of Sodium Metabisulphate for sterilization purposes.  I have read that this is not really a good chemical for beermaking sterilization and use bleach instead to keep my gear sanitized. I have also read that this has arisen because the sodium metabisulphate is used in winemaking and hence the beermaking people have also used it (without understanding that it is not so suitable) However – in winemaking, I commonly read about Camden tablets and the need to crush these tablets.  Are they the same as the powdered sodium metabisulphate sold here – I have never sen camden tablets in the shops. Thanks Barry

Response:

I commonly read about Camden tablets and the need to crush these tablets.  Are they the same as the powdered sodium metabisulphate sold here – I have never sen camden tablets in the shops.

They are the same stuff, but it’s really better to use potassium metabisulfite than either Campden tablets or sodium metabisulfite. Tom S

Response:

sodium metabisulfite will sulphate, but that will help with the aging processs of the wine. If you just want to sterilize and clean how about anti-bacterial washing up liquid? Any thought anyone? Andrew Before you buy.

Response:

Why would you need to warn people that a cider contains sulphites?? Is it dangerous? —

Response:

There are a few people that can be sensitive too it…Their numbers are few, but they will likely know and ask you about your wine before they drink it anyway since they are used to checking. — -Scot Mc Pherson -Gardener, Beekeeper, Winemaker and Fishkeeper

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why would you need to warn people that a cider contains sulphites?? Is it dangerous? —

Response:

<Snip However – in winemaking, I commonly read about Camden tablets and the need to crush these tablets.  Are they the same as the powdered sodium metabisulphate sold here – I have never sen camden tablets in the shops.

Campden tablet are mainly sodium metabisulphate (93%) with 5% potassium benzoate and 2% polyvinyl pyrrolidone. — Cyclops

Response:

A few people like me. My reactions to overexposure to sulfites range from a mild sinus discomfort to swelling of various external and/or internal soft body tissues (eyelids, lips, hands, feet, throat). It can be a real pain to focus on anything else when you’ve an eye swollen shut, a bloated lip and cheek, and the dangly thing (uvula?) in the back of your mouth is swollen so large it gags you, while you’re walking so slowly through O’Hare airport on your painful, swollen feet that little old ladies with canes pass you by.  But, at least I’m apparently not one of the even fewer susceptible to anaphylaxic (sp?) shock and subsequent possible death. Sulfites are why I brew my own beer or try and stick to commercial drafts, which supposedly  do not contain sulfites. Most commercial bottled beers (at least here in the United States) do contain sulfites, although the labelling may not say so. And I don’t drink much wine. For me, it’s the "overexposure" that can cause the harsher effects. Even though sulfites can be found in many ingredients in most processed foods here, I get by pretty well. John Tyner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are a few people that can be sensitive too it…Their numbers are few, but they will likely know and ask you about your wine before they drink it anyway since they are used to checking. — -Scot Mc Pherson -Gardener, Beekeeper, Winemaker and Fishkeeper Why would you need to warn people that a cider contains sulphites?? Is it dangerous? —

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