Brewing Master

Question:

Hello, I started kegging the other day after getting my new CO2 tank in.  I had it filled at the Auto Parts store where I asked to have filled with CO2.  Since the guy was not familiar with the brewing process and kegging, he just said he’d have "beer gas" filled and ready the following week.  I accepted this figuring it was the stuff I needed.

Thank you for the reports on beer gas.  Actually all went very good as I intended to have this keg for a Superbowl party.  I super-pressurized 25-35 psi with beer gas for four days in the refrigerator.  Then I vented the pressure down to 3-4 psi and tapped on Sunday.  Every glass maintained an excellent creamy head and small bubbles from the bottom.   In comparison to the bottled, which exhibited stronger carbonation was conditioned four weeks in the bottles and fermented from dry packet yeast.  My keg "special," was the first time using liquid Wyeast 1007. I received many good comments from guests and even a somewhat knowledgeable homebrewer saying the keg tasted excellant.  The home brewer said the bottled tasted sort of like home-brew but the keg was the best homebrew he ever had. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Nitrogen is less soluble than CO2.  "Beer gas" (in combination with a special "sparkler" dispensing head) is commonly used for dispensing draft Stout, where you want low carbonation and a dense head.  I’m guessing that the result of using it without the sparkler head will simply be somewhat undercarbonated beer. Strangely enough this looks like the result.  It’s been three days but carbonation is almost nil but with generous head.  Good thing I bottled a batch, now over four weeks conditioned in the bottle–turned out good.

The head is due to the small amount of nitrogen that is dissolved in the beer. If you had a stout faucet, that would push the gas and beer through a screen, which would make some of the nitrogen dissolve more completely in the beer, giving you a "cascading" effect, like you see ina a properly poured pint of stout. That’s what I got so far, but I don’t like it.  I’m cranking up the pressure for maximum carbonated brew, make that nitrogenated not carbonated.

Well, it is somewhat carbonated, as it does contain CO2. Just sorry I messed it up–an ale, my first using liquid yeast with keg carbonating.  I just overlooked the definition of "beer gas" assuming it was all CO2 and the safe way to go.

One of the things that I’ve learned about brewing is to let go, and let it happen. Unforseen events are not necessarily mistakes. You could simply say to your guests (and yourself) that you are simulating a real ale, or a cask conditioned ale, in which case it woul be less carbonated. Don’t forget that many brewers spend the extra cash for a stout faucet to maximize that "creamy" effect. You can’t get the same results without a stout faucet, but if you try restricting the flow, say with very light application of a picnoc faucet trigger, you can get some cascading, and more creamy head. That creamy head is the thing with a proper setup. I have a stout facuet and separate nitrogen and CO2 tanks and regulators. In the proper balance, there is nothing finer than an oatmeal stout run through that setup. -Drew Douglass SF Bay Area, California

Response:

Snip Guinness supposedly uses a 60/40 mixture of nitrogen/CO2.  I’m assuming that the stuff you have is probably similar.  Other than the undercarbonation issue, I don’t see any problem with using it.  If you generally like your beers a little less fizzy, you may even like it better this way!

 In the UK (I’m assuming it’s the same in the US) Guinness actually uses a 70/30 mix of nitrogen/Co2, the 60/40 mix is used sometimes to dispense lagers (note I said DISPENSE, the lager is first carbonated, kegged then served with 60/40 mix) no special tap is needed for the dispense of the lager (unless you want a smoothflow lager) it just supposedly helps give better/more consistant head retention. The Guinness is actually nitoroginated with the 70/30 mix and then kegged and dispensed with the mix gas and, as you rightly said a creamer disc. (0.5 micron 5 hole if my memory serves me right) I hope this is of interest. Yours Steve C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hello, I started kegging the other day after getting my new CO2 tank in.  I had it filled at the Auto Parts store where I asked to have filled with CO2.  Since the guy was not familiar with the brewing process and kegging, he just said he’d have "beer gas" filled and ready the following week.  I accepted this figuring it was the stuff I needed. Now looking at the tank, the filler agency placed a sticker on the 5 lb tank saying contents "beer gas" contains: Nitrogen and CO2.  I assume I needed pure CO2 to carbonate my beer.  Right?

Yeah, CO2 would have been preferable. The N2/CO2 mix is used for dispensing Guinness or other draught stouts where a high pressure is needed to force the beer through a restrictor plate. Since N2 is not very soluble in beer, it allows the use of higher pressure without overcarbonation. For the same reason it is also often used in bars with very long draught lines, so that the pressure can be turned up to push the beer over the long distance. If you want to carbonate your beer as normal, you’ll have to find out the ratio of N2/CO2 and turn up the pressure so that the partial-pressure of the CO2 is at the level you’d use for carbonating your beer. For example: let’s say you normally would use 10 psi to carbonate your beer, and your mix is 50% CO2 (just to make the math easy). You’d need 20 psi (.5 * 20 psi = 10 psi) to get the same carbonation. Unless you want to use a really long hose to dispense your beer, or you’re planning on using a stout faucet (the kind with the restrictor plate), that’s more pressure than you really need. If I were you, I’d take the tank back and see if they’ll exchange it for one filled with pure CO2. Mark

Response:

Hello, I started kegging the other day after getting my new CO2 tank in.  I had it filled at the Auto Parts store where I asked to have filled with CO2.  Since the guy was not familiar with the brewing process and kegging, he just said he’d have "beer gas" filled and ready the following week.  I accepted this figuring it was the stuff I needed. Now looking at the tank, the filler agency placed a sticker on the 5 lb tank saying contents "beer gas" contains: Nitrogen and CO2.  I assume I needed pure CO2 to carbonate my beer.  Right? What’s going to happen to my brew?  Can I get the tank filled with CO2 later on? What is the Nitrogen and CO2 percentage?  Can I carbonate my beer with this gas?   What now? Thank you for your suggestions, Mark

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I started kegging the other day after getting my new CO2 tank in.  I had it filled at the Auto Parts store where I asked to have filled with CO2.  Since the guy was not familiar with the brewing process and kegging, he just said he’d have "beer gas" filled and ready the following week.  I accepted this figuring it was the stuff I needed. Now looking at the tank, the filler agency placed a sticker on the 5 lb tank saying contents "beer gas" contains: Nitrogen and CO2.  I assume I needed pure CO2 to carbonate my beer.  Right? Yes, normally pure CO2 would be used.  Just out of curiosity, do you have a dual-gauge regulator, and if so, what does the tank side read? (I was under the impression that the pressures involved when using nitrogen are higher than for CO2.)

Yes, I have a NADS dual.  It reads 1700 psi on the dial. What’s going to happen to my brew?   Nitrogen is less soluble than CO2.  "Beer gas" (in combination with a special "sparkler" dispensing head) is commonly used for dispensing draft Stout, where you want low carbonation and a dense head.  I’m guessing that the result of using it without the sparkler head will simply be somewhat undercarbonated beer.

Strangely enough this looks like the result.  It’s been three days but carbonation is almost nil but with generous head.  Good thing I bottled a batch, now over four weeks conditioned in the bottle–turned out good. Can I get the tank filled with CO2 later on? I don’t see why not.  Nitrogen is fairly inert, so it’s not like the tank is "contaminated" or anything. What is the Nitrogen and CO2 percentage?  Can I carbonate my beer with this gas? Guinness supposedly uses a 60/40 mixture of nitrogen/CO2.  I’m assuming that the stuff you have is probably similar.  Other than the undercarbonation issue, I don’t see any problem with using it.  If you generally like your beers a little less fizzy, you may even like it better this way!

That’s what I got so far, but I don’t like it.  I’m cranking up the pressure for maximum carbonated brew, make that nitrogenated not carbonated. Just sorry I messed it up–an ale, my first using liquid yeast with keg carbonating.  I just overlooked the definition of "beer gas" assuming it was all CO2 and the safe way to go. I’ve been testing this two evenings and the keg’s a bit lighter now–huge head but sort of flat. Thank you, mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What now? Brew lots of Stout? Thank you for your suggestions, Mark —

Response:

Hello, I started kegging the other day after getting my new CO2 tank in.  I had it filled at the Auto Parts store where I asked to have filled with CO2.  Since the guy was not familiar with the brewing process and kegging, he just said he’d have "beer gas" filled and ready the following week.  I accepted this figuring it was the stuff I needed. Now looking at the tank, the filler agency placed a sticker on the 5 lb tank saying contents "beer gas" contains: Nitrogen and CO2.  I assume I needed pure CO2 to carbonate my beer.  Right?

Yes, normally pure CO2 would be used.  Just out of curiosity, do you have a dual-gauge regulator, and if so, what does the tank side read? (I was under the impression that the pressures involved when using nitrogen are higher than for CO2.) What’s going to happen to my brew?  

Nitrogen is less soluble than CO2.  "Beer gas" (in combination with a special "sparkler" dispensing head) is commonly used for dispensing draft Stout, where you want low carbonation and a dense head.  I’m guessing that the result of using it without the sparkler head will simply be somewhat undercarbonated beer. Can I get the tank filled with CO2 later on?

I don’t see why not.  Nitrogen is fairly inert, so it’s not like the tank is "contaminated" or anything. What is the Nitrogen and CO2 percentage?  Can I carbonate my beer with this gas?

Guinness supposedly uses a 60/40 mixture of nitrogen/CO2.  I’m assuming that the stuff you have is probably similar.  Other than the undercarbonation issue, I don’t see any problem with using it.  If you generally like your beers a little less fizzy, you may even like it better this way! What now?

Brew lots of Stout? Thank you for your suggestions, Mark

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Response: