Air Drying Bleach in Glass

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Question:

It seems I remember reading somewhere that bleach will air dry in glass and not leave any residue. If this is true, wouldn’t it be better to just place a glass fermenter upside down to drain after sanitizing rather than rinse with tap water that could contain bacteria? Please respond if you have any knowledge or experience with this.

Response:

From my experience, you are correct to a point. If you use a heavy dilution ratio in your sanitizing, then a residue will be left inside your fermenter. Further, unless your tap water is bad, or from a private well, it should not be a problem to rinse your fermenter with water. Of course, some will disagree and claim either one of the above points are incorrect. See what works for you. If you have no problems with your bleach dilution ratios, and experience no off flavors in your wort, then keep air drying. I can tell you that I always rinse out my fermenters and have not had an infected batch in six months (I brew 2 – 3 times a month). Jim

Response:

Don’t belive it!! Always when using bleach, rinse untill you can no longer detect the oder. Iodophor is one chemical that you can let air dry without rinsing. I use it all the time. Hope this helps.

Response:

This is not true. Bleach is formed by dissolving chlorine gas in an alkali solution: Cl2 + 2 NaOH — NaOCl + NaCl + H20 If you allow bleach to air dry, at best you will end up with a reside of salt (NaCl) and caustic soda (Na2CO3) from the reaction of alkali with carbon dioxide in air. If the bleach is dilute enough, the residue will be so minimal that it can be ignored. — Phil

Response:

: If you allow bleach to air dry, at best you will end up with a : reside of salt (NaCl) and caustic soda (Na2CO3) from the reaction : of alkali with carbon dioxide in air. : If the bleach is dilute enough, the residue will be so minimal : that it can be ignored. I would disagree with this. Bleach residue, even at minute levels, will show up in beer as a chlorphenolic smell or taste. Cheers! —Mark Brewery info server for homebrewers: <URL:http://alpha.rollanet.org/

Response:

OK, Mark. Let’s do the math… Household bleach is 5% sodium hypochlorite. That’s 5 parts per hundred or 50,000 parts per million (ppm). Now if I put 1 teaspoon in a gallon of water, I’ve put 5 ml (1 tsp) in 4000 ml (1 gallon). To keep the math simple, let’s say that 5 ml in 5000 ml or a dilution by a factor of 1,000. So my sanitizing solution has 50 ppm of sodium hypochlorite (50,000 ppm/ 1000). Suppose I rinse my 5 gallon carboy with 2 cups of the sanitizing solution. That’s 500 ml or 1/10 of my sanitizing solution. Suppose that I can drain 99% of the liquid so that only 1% is left wetting the inside of the carboy. That would be 5 ml (500 ml * 0.01) or 1 tsp. Probably a reasonable approximation. Let’s assume that 1% remaining dries and the goes into 5 gallons of wort. The dilution of the bleach would be 5 ml of a 50 ppm solution in 20,000 ml (5 * 4000 ml/gal). That’s a dilution factor of 1:4000. Again, let’s use 1:5000 to keep the math simple. 50 ppm is the same as 50,000 parts per billion (ppb). So, the effective dilution would give a sodium hypochlorite concentration in the wort of 10 parts per billion (50,000 / 5,000). That assumes, of course, that in the process of drying and standing that the the sodium hypochlorite does not react and deactivate. Now, I would submit that sodium hypochlorite at a 10 parts per *billion* level is miniscule and will have little, if any, affect on the wort. — Phil

Response:

[air-dry after bleach sanitize] : If the bleach is dilute enough, the residue will be so minimal : that it can be ignored. I would disagree with this. Bleach residue, even at minute levels, will show up in beer as a chlorphenolic smell or taste.

This is a "belief". Facts show otherwise; many homebrewers use bleach at appropriate concentration and drain/air-dry with entirely satisfactory results. If you’re getting "chlorphenolic" smell/taste, it’s almost certain you’re doing something else wrong in your brewing. Proper use of bleach isn’t going to be the source of it, by a large margin. — …Too bad about Boulder.

Response:

: OK, Mark. Let’s do the math… [...lots of math stuff snipped...] : Now, I would submit that sodium hypochlorite at a 10 parts per *billion* : level is miniscule and will have little, if any, affect on the wort. Okay, you punched a lot of buttons on your calculator and got an answer that makes you happy. All I was saying is that chlorophenolic smells and flavors *DO* show up very often in homebrew, as any beer judge can tell you. That chlorine is coming from somewhere. The two most likely culprits are: 1) chlorinated water supply, 2) chlorine bleach sanitizers. The first source can easily be eliminated by charcoal filtering, the second by switching to another sanitizer, like iodophor. If you’re comfortable that your math is right and that the perception level is lower than your residual level, then by all means save the $$$ and use bleach. I’m just not confidant at all in your recommendation that bleach can be used as a no-rinse sanitizer. Cheers! —Mark Brewery info server for homebrewers: <URL:http://alpha.rollanet.org/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : OK, Mark. Let’s do the math… [...lots of math stuff snipped...] : Now, I would submit that sodium hypochlorite at a 10 parts per *billion* : level is miniscule and will have little, if any, affect on the wort. Okay, you punched a lot of buttons on your calculator and got an answer that makes you happy. All I was saying is that chlorophenolic smells and flavors *DO* show up very often in homebrew, as any beer judge can tell you. That chlorine is coming from somewhere. The two most likely culprits are: 1) chlorinated water supply, 2) chlorine bleach sanitizers. The first source can easily be eliminated by charcoal filtering, the second by switching to another sanitizer, like iodophor. If you’re comfortable that your math is right and that the perception level is lower than your residual level, then by all means save the $$$ and use bleach. I’m just not confidant at all in your recommendation that bleach can be used as a no-rinse sanitizer.

Well, chlorine bleach sanitation needs to be done properly. I use a 1 tbl bleach per gallon for sanitizing and 1 tsp per gallon as a final rinse. I then drain or otherwise get rid of as much of rinse solution as possible. It didn’t hurt my beer that made to the AHA national competition this year. — Phil

Response:

[background work on bleach solutions] Okay, you punched a lot of buttons on your calculator and got an answer that makes you happy. All I was saying is that chlorophenolic smells and flavors *DO* show up very often in homebrew, as any beer judge can tell you…

This is an invention. The facts are otherwise. You’ll find the occasional phenolic character, but it’s highly unlikely that it came from bleach. Sometimes people use outrageous amounts of bleach and get off-tastes, but that’s rare. It’s far more likely that there is a "phenolic" (drop the "chloro-") character produced from some other brewing flaw. People are too ready to blame easily-imagined causes like chlorine for sanitization, too reluctant to search out real problems. Many, perhaps most, successful homebrewers in the US use chlorine bleach for sanitizing, and have no problem with these "*phenolic" tastes. …That chlorine is coming from somewhere. The two most likely culprits are: 1) chlorinated water supply, 2) chlorine bleach sanitizers.

The common off-tastes are likely coming from neither of these, especially not (1). — …Too bad about Boulder.

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