Brewing Master

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what. I’m using a pretty simple recipe: 8# Extral Light DME 1# Roasted Barley 2 oz Fuggles pellets (I’m not much of a hophead) I add the barley to cold water and remove it when the temp reaches 95C.  I strain enough hot water through it to bring the volume to 2 gal then add the DME and the hops and boil for 1 hr.  I pour the mix into 2 gal water then add enough water to top off a 5 gal carboy.  I then use a sanitized glass turkey baster to remove about 1.5 qts of wort which I save in a sanitized jar for priming.  When the wort cools (usually the next morning) I aerate and pitch. Batch 1 (a kit + 2# DME)     1.028/10.22      tasted fine Batch 2 (recipe)          1.072/1.038     tasted like shit probably infected Batch 3 (recipe)          1.048/1.042     tastes OK After batch 2 my homebrew store guy suggested using liquid yeast, using the damp towel method to ferment at a cooler temp and using a fermometer to get a temp rather than sticking a thermometer into the carboy.  I did these things and batch 3 didn’t get infected, but it didn’t ferment either.  A different homebrew store guy suggested yeast energizer (no help), racking from my carboy to my bottling bucket then back again after cleaning out the carboy (no help but I did notice the yeast was still flocculating near the bottom) and finally re-pitching (still no help).  I also tried using Arrowhead spring water for batch 3 instead of (Brita) filtered San Diego tap water.  #3 is still in the carboy after almost a month and than that there seems to be no activity. I seem to get about 12-24 hrs of vigorous fermentation (lots of foam and kreusen) then a week of steadily slowing fermentation so that after 8-9 days I get a bubble from the airlock about every two minutes or so.

Now, this here sounds better. I usually get a relatively short period of vigorous ferment (2-3 days) where the beer looks like it almost boiling from the yeast activity, followed by several days of diminishing activity, and a week or so of trickle (one bubble out of airlock every 1-5 min.) After that I bottle (use a secondary fermenter after 6-14 days to slightly but noticably improve your beer). But don’t forget that the length of fermentation can varry alot, depending on yeast, recipie, and temp. I notice that you did not mention airating. It is important to do at least some airating of your cooled wort (<80 deg. F). Many say to use a sanitized airstone and aquarium pump with an air filter, but many (including me) have found that very good results can be obtained by capping your carboy when it 3/4 to 7/8 full and shaking like hell (roll it around back and forth on the carpet, this works well and is easier) for a minimum of 3 min. Then top off your carboy with clean-tasting water. Pitch your yeast somewhere in the 70’s, and by no means above 85 F. It sounds like you are fermenting in a warm climate. Try aiming a fan at that wet towel, and make sure that your yeast can tolerate warm temperatures. Yeasts vary alot. You should forget about the liquid yeasts until you are consistantly making tasty beer. Then you can use them to get a slightly cleaner and more predictable flavor. Many dry yeasts make very tasty ales. (EDME and Munton and Fison are two good ones). Just sprinkle the yeasts into your airated wort. You also did not mention if you are using a starter. I think that you are always better off with dry yeast if you are not going to do a starter for your "slap pack" of Wyeast. Here are some profiles off the web: Dry Ale Yeasts Coopers Ale Yeast      Good to very good reputation. The Coopers is quite fruity fermented at 65F. It’s not phenolic at all and all the flavor is a      very clean fruitiness. Glenbrew Special Ale Yeast      Specially designed for use in "all malt" beers. Contains a special enzyme to obtain extremely low terminal gravities. Doric Ale Yeast      Ok to very good reputation. Edme Ale Yeast      Starts quick. Produces some fruity esters. Attenuative. Good reputation Lallemand Nottingham Yeast<,/dt      This yeast is remarkable for its high degree of flocculation. It settles out very quickly and firmly. Very good reputation.      Quick fermentation at 62F. It’s very clean and only very slightly fruity in the keg, but tastes/smells nutty in the bottled      version. Nottingham appears to be relatively attenuative (more so than the Coopers). Lallemand Windsor Yeast      Produces a beer which is clean and well balanced. This yeast produces an ale which is estery to both palate and nose      with a slight fresh yeast flavor. Very good reputation. Not as quick as the Nottingham. Definite banana smell at racking. Munton-Fison Ale Yeast      Starts quick. Produces some fruity esters. Attenuative. Fair to good reputation. It is reported that a phenolic taste is no      longer a problem due to some strain changes. Red Star Ale Yeast      This brand had a very bad reputation in the past, and for a while production was suspended. A different strain (AHY      43391) was selected by the company and is now being sold as Red Star Ale Yeast. The new strain is much improved!      Reports from Dr. Fix, a brewer’s yeast consultant, suggest that this is an excellent general purpose ale yeast with a clean      taste. Apparent attenuation 76-78%. Whitbread Ale Yeast      Fast starter. Distribution switched to Crosby and Baker with a change in the yeast. Very good reputation despite past      quality problems. Any suggestions for batch 4 would be

appreciated.  If this one doesn’t come out beer, there may be a cheap carboy available. Remember: relax, don’t worry, you’ll soon have a homebrew. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NCR Corporation                    Global Partner Labs 17095 Via del Campo ms 9853        San Diego, CA  92127 (619) 485-2052                     VoicePlus 440-2052 Morning would be fine if only it would come later in the day. GO REDWINGS

Response:

Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what. …. wort which I save in a sanitized jar for priming.  When the wort cools (usually the next morning) I aerate and pitch.

You needent wait until morning.  Adding 3 gallons of cold water (chill it) to 2 gallons of boiling water should bring you down below 100 F.  Place the carboy in an ice bath for 15 minutes and you will be ready to pitch. I suggest making a yeast starter.  Draw off some of the wort at the beginning of the boil (after 5 minutes), say about 3-4 cups.  Place in a clean container with a lid and cool it down in an ice bath or in the refrigerator provided you have a good lid.  You will need to loosen the lid as the wort cools to equalize pressures.  When its cooled sufficiently (70 F) pitch in the dry yeast and place on the counter with the lid on but not tightly.  This will hydrate the yeast and begin their growth.  After about an hour you should have an active yeast starter.  Make sure your holding container has some extra head space.  Now when the wort cools, less than 1 hour after boiling, add the yeast starter and mix well.  You should be cranking the next morning.  Time is of the essence in getting things going into the fermentation as the bacteria and yeast are fighting it out for the goods in your wort.  Who ever gets a leg up early will win.  Don’t let the bacteria get a nights head start – unless you are sure there are NONE in there (yeah, right!). Batch 1 (a kit + 2# DME)     1.028/10.22      tasted fine Batch 2 (recipe)          1.072/1.038     tasted like shit probably infected Batch 3 (recipe)          1.048/1.042     tastes OK

I don’t know off hand, but there is a conversion from gravity loss to alcohol content.  Something like .007 gravity units equals 1 percent alcohol.  You’re first and third batch, if you measured gravity correctly, are pretty much NA.  If you witnessed any activity like you mentioned below, you have not measured gravity correctly, or the activity you witnessed was bacterial, but then the ‘beer’ would taste like shit. After batch 2 my homebrew store guy suggested using liquid yeast,

Not necessary, but they can produce a finer tasting beer if you have a sensitive enough pallet and brew the right beers. I seem to get about 12-24 hrs of vigorous fermentation (lots of foam and kreusen) then a week of steadily slowing fermentation so that after 8-9 days I get a bubble from the airlock about every two minutes or so.

That’s the schedule for a basic batch of kit extract beer.  Seems like if you really stress cleaning things, modify your yeast pitch along the lines I mentioned, you will succeed next time.  Check your gravity measuring device.  I had a hydrometer that had a sliding ruler in it (that piece of paper that has the nnumbers on it inside the glass), if you picked it up quickly or shook it the paper would slide up and down.  Its trash now. hope this helps, don’t quite, don’t worry, and soon you’ll have a homebrew. Sanitize, sanitize, sanitize.

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: I thought at first that something was wrong with your hydrometer, but you had : written me telling me that the product tastes the same as the sweet wort. But, : from what you describe, it sounds as if the fermentation is starting : correctly. So, something must be interfering with its completion. : : The more I think about it, the more I think that it could be the tap water. : Perhaps there is some water cleanser or overly concentrated amounts of : chlorine that are present in it, killing your yeast over the course of a : couple of days. How is your water being filtered? Is the filter a sanitizer as : well? Also, perhaps you’re sanitizing with a strong solution and not rinsing : well. Whatever it is, it sounds as if something is killing the yeast. : Our fine city uses chloramine (sp) instead of chlorine.  It cannot be removed by boiling.  You have to use an activated charcol filter.  Call your water supplier, explain that you’re making beer and most often they will be more than helpful.  Mine faxed me the 12 page analysis they had done by an outside source in order to meet federal guidelines. Jay

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: 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. : : Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! Get an aquarium pump, use disposible platic airstones, and run it for 30-60 minutes. How on earth can one run a pump with an airstone for 60 minutes? I get soooo much "head" that I have to stop the pump! What’s your trick? JP

So far, I have not had to resort to massive aeration of my wort to get good fermentation. I splash the wort when transferring it to the fermenter, shake the fermenter for around 5 minutes, and pitch a large starter. Fermentation starts in 6-8 hours, and I always hit my target gravity. Mike Kidulich DNRC Minister of Home Brewing, Relaxation, and Really Cool Toys Holder of Previous Knowledge O-

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: : 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. : : : : Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! : : Get an aquarium pump, use disposible platic airstones, and run it for : 30-60 minutes. : : How on earth can one run a pump with an airstone for 60 minutes? : I get soooo much "head" that I have to stop the pump! : : What’s your trick? : : JP   I use a plastic primary, I feed the tubing through the airlock hole and place the lid on loosely.  Lot’s of bubbles but no problems. Jay

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why not start out with Extracts untill you get a feel for it. Good Luck

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: 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. : : Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! Get an aquarium pump, use disposible platic airstones, and run it for 30-60 minutes.

How on earth can one run a pump with an airstone for 60 minutes? I get soooo much "head" that I have to stop the pump! What’s your trick? JP

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: 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. : : Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! Get an aquarium pump, use disposible platic airstones, and run it for 30-60 minutes. How on earth can one run a pump with an airstone for 60 minutes? I get soooo much "head" that I have to stop the pump! What’s your trick? JP

Personally, I think the aquarium-pump aeration is anal and unnecessary.   I use a short copper tube on the end o f my siphon that has 4 small holes drilled into it (see Zymurgy, spring 1992 "gadget" issue).  These holes allow air to be sucked into the wort as it flows into the primary.  With this, and a well-built-up yeast starter I get full fermentation activity in as little as 6 hours. BTW, aquarium pumps can pump oil and bacteria into your wort unless you do some careful filtering of the air.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what. I’m using a pretty simple recipe: I add the barley to cold water and remove it when the temp reaches 95C.  I strain enough hot water through it to bring the volume to 2 gal then add the DME and the hops and boil for 1 hr.  I pour the mix into 2 gal water then add enough water to top off a 5 gal carboy.  I then use a sanitized glass turkey baster to remove about 1.5 qts of wort which I save in a sanitized jar for priming.  When the wort cools (usually the next morning) I aerate and pitch. Batch 1 (a kit + 2# DME)     1.028/10.22      tasted fine Batch 2 (recipe)          1.072/1.038     tasted like shit probably infected Batch 3 (recipe)          1.048/1.042     tastes OK

SNIP… I’d forget saving wort to prime, and try priming a batch using 3/4 cup corn sugar, boiled in a bit of water. YOu may be contaminating it with the gyle you use for priming. Bill Crick Brewius,Ergo Sum!

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3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! 6) Ferment below 70F. I’ve heard this before, could someone explain (again) what fermentation above 70F does to beer?

Hello, I wrote that list of things that I now do to make my beer better. The first 10 batches that I made tasted downright bad compared to the current batches. I believe strongly that a lot of my problems came from under-aerating the wort. I believe that under-aerationg causes acetaldehyde. There’s a paragraph in Greg Noonan’s book "Brewing Lager Beer" that reiterates this. The recommended aeration is aeration to 8 ppm. Pappazian says to use an air stone for 30 – 60 minutes to achieve this. I have heard that it can be less, but I don’t know of any problems from aerating more. Dave Miller recommends at least 20 minutes, and I’ve seen methods where the wort is aerated for several hours. Basically, I think that there is still a lot of differing opinion on this issue and others. I am simply describing that which works for me. In addition, I get a lot of strange, fruity flavors when I ferment above 70F. But, I’ve come to learn that this fellow’s bad beer is bad because the wort doesn’t finish fermenting. He’s written me and said that the wort still tastes like it did when it went into the carboy. He describes fermentation that lasts about a day, and then stops, and he has posted specific gravity readings very close to his initial readings. I think something is killing his yeast before the fermentation finishes. Possibly the water, or maybe his filtering mechanism. His filter might be introducing sanitizer as well. Hasta, Craig Haynie (Houston)

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: 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. : : Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! Get an aquarium pump, use disposible platic airstones, and run it for 30-60 minutes. : : 6) Ferment below 70F. : : I’ve heard this before, could someone explain (again) what fermentation : above 70F does to beer? It can cause fruity or bannana like flavors.  It really depends on the yeast strain in use.  It also typically causes very fast fermentation, on the order of 1-2 days.  In S. Florida I ferment at 74-78 degrees on a regular basis.  Most ales come out OK, some require a little longer conditioning before they taste right.  Don’t try this with a lager type of yeast. Jay

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6) Ferment below 70F. I’ve heard this before, could someone explain (again) what fermentation above 70F does to beer? Not sure what it does, but I have gotten some weird flavors from ferms in the 75-80 range. Dont even try that temp with a wheat. 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! Ditto!  Shake closed carboy for 10-15 sec before pitching.  You only want enough O2 for the yeast to begin respiration.

I often get lazy and just make sure the wort aerates by running it down the insides of the primary’s wall.  Did that with yesterday’s batch.  Pitched at 6PM.  By midnight there were signs of fermentation in the airlock.  This morning there was foam coming right out the top. | Tim Robinson                   | Those who would give up essential | | Excalibur BBS: 918-445-3091    | temporary safety, deserve neither | | http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr | liberty nor safety.  Ben Franklin |

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3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes.

Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy! 6) Ferment below 70F.

I’ve heard this before, could someone explain (again) what fermentation above 70F does to beer? Thanks! Phil

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6) Ferment below 70F. I’ve heard this before, could someone explain (again) what fermentation above 70F does to beer?

Not sure what it does, but I have gotten some weird flavors from ferms in the 75-80 range. Dont even try that temp with a wheat. 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. Youch!  We aerate by shaking the carboy!

Ditto!  Shake closed carboy for 10-15 sec before pitching.  You only want enough O2 for the yeast to begin respiration.

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Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what.

You might want to find a "Brew Buddy" to brew with you.  Sometimes two heads (not brew heads) are better than one.  He/She could spot a simple step you are either doing or not doing that could make the difference between a great beer and a drain cleaner.  A mentor, if you will. You WILL make great beer! don Go Cowboys – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GO REDWINGS

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(snipped description of brewing attempts) Folks already gave advice about brewing procedures, I’ll just suggest more hops, added at different intervals.  You added 2 oz fuggles at the beginning of the boil, try adding hops at beginning, at 30 minutes, 10 minutes, or steeped after the heat is cut while it’s cooling, and dry-hopping. Phil

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Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what.

I feel your pain. I brewed 10 batches before I figured the ins and outs of it enough to make a good beer. All the beer tasted really bad. It was much more difficult than everyone led me to believe. There are certain key points that MUST go well to make the beer good: 1) Do NOT aerate hot wort after the boil. Be careful to avoid splashing. 2) Chill the wort quickly below 100F. 3) Aerate for 30 – 60 minutes. 4) Do not pitch the yeast above 80F. 5) Pitch a lot of yeast (Make a starter). 6) Ferment below 70F. 7) Do NOT aerate beer after fermentation begins. Be very careful when bottling or moving from carboy to bottling bucket. Only after I took care of all of these things did the beer start to taste good. I’ve now had 3 batches of good beer, and these beers are better than I can find commericially. Batch 1 (a kit + 2# DME)     1.028/10.22      tasted fine Batch 2 (recipe)          1.072/1.038     tasted like shit probably infected Batch 3 (recipe)          1.048/1.042     tastes OK

Something is definitely wrong here. Batch 1 and Batch 3 should have terminal gravities below 1.015. Batch 2 should be lower. With fermentation the way you described it, I would guess that your hydrometer isn’t working. Test it in plain water. It should read 1.000. Hasta, Craig Haynie (Houston)

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Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what.

[...] Batch 1 (a kit + 2# DME)     1.028/10.22      tasted fine Batch 2 (recipe)          1.072/1.038     tasted like shit probably infected Batch 3 (recipe)          1.048/1.042     tastes OK

I thought at first that something was wrong with your hydrometer, but you had written me telling me that the product tastes the same as the sweet wort. But, from what you describe, it sounds as if the fermentation is starting correctly. So, something must be interfering with its completion. The more I think about it, the more I think that it could be the tap water. Perhaps there is some water cleanser or overly concentrated amounts of chlorine that are present in it, killing your yeast over the course of a couple of days. How is your water being filtered? Is the filter a sanitizer as well? Also, perhaps you’re sanitizing with a strong solution and not rinsing well. Whatever it is, it sounds as if something is killing the yeast. Hasta, Craig Haynie (Houston)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what. I’m using a pretty simple recipe: I add the barley to cold water and remove it when the temp reaches 95C.  I strain enough hot water through it to bring the volume to 2 gal then add the DME and the hops and boil for 1 hr.  I pour the mix into 2 gal water then add enough water to top off a 5 gal carboy.  I then use a sanitized glass turkey baster to remove about 1.5 qts of wort which I save in a sanitized jar for priming.  When the wort cools (usually the next morning) I aerate and pitch. Batch 1 (a kit + 2# DME)     1.028/10.22      tasted fine Batch 2 (recipe)          1.072/1.038     tasted like shit probably infected Batch 3 (recipe)          1.048/1.042     tastes OK

When you say tastes like shit or tastes just OK, what’s wrong? What is it that’s missing in your brew (flavorwise) or is it too strong? Is it sour, if so that’d be bacterial. Is it too weak, try Amber or Medium DME. Give us some info on what you’re shooting for and maybe we’ve got somewhere to go. But saying I hate it (end of story) doesn’t help. It’s like trying to figure out what’s wrong with Brussel Sprouts when a five year old says he hates ‘em and that’s that!         Don’t give up though! Pour your wort (chilled somewhat is better) into the fermenter with 3 gallons of *cold* water. This should get your temp down low enough to pitch without waiting overnight. Dry yeast is still the easiest when you’re starting out and will produce a good brew. (Liquid yeast allows you to tailor the brew with specific characteristics. But let’s stick to basics; getting a good batch o’ brew.) Pitching same day gives your yeast a head start against other undesirable beasties. Don’t forget cleanliness is the MOST important part of brewing, without that basic all else is a waste of time.                                         -DAP

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Your sad story is enough to make me cry in my home brew.  It looks like you are getting some pretty good advice so I will just leave you with a few words of encouragement.  Once you figure out what it is you are doing wrong it really is easy.  I know people stress sanitization exact measurements, thorough record keeping and the like but quite often I will just pitch everything I have left over into a pot and brew.  Some of my methiods would be considered down right reckless by some.  I guess what I am trying to share with you is that, yes it does help to be clean and all that but beer can be very for giving.  I’m not saying you can get sloppy but I have found that beer practically makes itself once you figure out how to handle it.  It seems a mystery at first but some day you will look back and smile at your first efforts as you lift a delicious home brew to your lips.  It really is easy.  I wouldn’t be doing it if it wasn’t.  Hang in there.

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Well folks, this brewing stuff is not as easy as y’all make it sound. I’ve tried three batches and have yet to come up with beer.  I must be doing something wrong, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out what. I’m using a pretty simple recipe: 8# Extral Light DME 1# Roasted Barley 2 oz Fuggles pellets (I’m not much of a hophead) I add the barley to cold water and remove it when the temp reaches 95C.  I strain enough hot water through it to bring the volume to 2 gal then add the DME and the hops and boil for 1 hr.  I pour the mix into 2 gal water then add enough water to top off a 5 gal carboy.  I then use a sanitized glass turkey baster to remove about 1.5 qts of wort which I save in a sanitized jar for priming.  When the wort cools (usually the next morning) I aerate and pitch. Batch 1 (a kit + 2# DME)     1.028/10.22      tasted fine Batch 2 (recipe)          1.072/1.038     tasted like shit probably infected Batch 3 (recipe)          1.048/1.042     tastes OK After batch 2 my homebrew store guy suggested using liquid yeast, using the damp towel method to ferment at a cooler temp and using a fermometer to get a temp rather than sticking a thermometer into the carboy.  I did these things and batch 3 didn’t get infected, but it didn’t ferment either.  A different homebrew store guy suggested yeast energizer (no help), racking from my carboy to my bottling bucket then back again after cleaning out the carboy (no help but I did notice the yeast was still flocculating near the bottom) and finally re-pitching (still no help).  I also tried using Arrowhead spring water for batch 3 instead of (Brita) filtered San Diego tap water.  #3 is still in the carboy after almost a month and than that there seems to be no activity. I seem to get about 12-24 hrs of vigorous fermentation (lots of foam and kreusen) then a week of steadily slowing fermentation so that after 8-9 days I get a bubble from the airlock about every two minutes or so. Any suggestions for batch 4 would be appreciated.  If this one doesn’t come out beer, there may be a cheap carboy available. NCR Corporation                 Global Partner Labs 17095 Via del Campo ms 9853     San Diego, CA  92127 (619) 485-2052                  VoicePlus 440-2052 Morning would be fine if only it would come later in the day. GO REDWINGS

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