Brewing Master

Canada Call To Arms !!

admin — Tue, 13 Jun 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! News at 11. Chris

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Free poutine to all who join the cause! Chris

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(Are they *allowed* under the Geneva Conventions..??)

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My address is posted to this NG, please start here!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! News at 11. Chris Free poutine to all who join the cause! Chris

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You’re on your own dude. You and RoperKramerBen-Eileen Dover make a great pair. — Ken Wilson

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did courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My address is posted to this NG, please start here! We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! News at 11. Chris Free poutine to all who join the cause! Chris

Ouch, this is not going to be pretty. [8-0 — Ken Wilson

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We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh!

Seal your borders. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

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We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! Seal your borders. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

hire these guys to help you http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/new_intro/addict_head.jpg

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Here’s some HOmeland security on a roll http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/DHS/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – courageously avow: We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! News at 11. Chris You’re on your own dude. You and RoperKramerBen-Eileen Dover make a great pair.

…of anything but balls .

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Do you actually think there’s any point in trying to intellectually debate with any of these right wing retards? Chris

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We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! Seal your borders. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

Done and done. Chris

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Kyle’s mom is going to kick your ass, when she’s done with Terence and Philip…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjLLUdePnjY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JrMfj8XfIQ LaCrosse sticks? Are we being invaded by North Carolina, AGAIN? I thought General Sherman settled that a long time ago… — Ned Carlson SW side of Chicago, USA www.tubezone.net

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LOL. Mexico would give us more trouble than you guys.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – courageously avow: We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! News at 11. Chris You’re on your own dude.

Typical Wilson family heroics, first flee Norway, now Canada, this boy will never fight for anything!

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Not when you’re a dumbshit, no.

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courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – courageously avow: We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! News at 11. Chris You’re on your own dude. You and RoperKramerBen-Eileen Dover make a great pair. — Ken Wilson Do you actually think there’s any point in trying to intellectually debate with any of these right wing retards? Chris

Probably not but there’s enough phucktard in that one dude that any more will bust the seams on this news group. — Ken Wilson

Response:

Do you actually think there’s any point in trying to intellectually debate with any of these right wing retards? Chris Probably not but there’s enough phucktard in that one dude that any more will bust the seams on this news group.

How the job going at Loblaws? Still asking for "paper or plastic?"

Response:

As an American, you just bring your hockey sticks down here! We’ll meet you with equal force with beer mugs and we’ll see who’s the man… ummm, I’m on a diet, so I’ll be drinking lite beer, but that doesn’t lessen my Americanism one iota. Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – News at 11. Chris

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Don’t be so hard on yourself Sparky. — Ken Wilson

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courageously avow: Do you actually think there’s any point in trying to intellectually debate with any of these right wing retards? Chris Probably not but there’s enough phucktard in that one dude that any more will bust the seams on this news group. How the job going at Loblaws? Still asking for "paper or plastic?"

Sorry Sparky. No Loblaws in this part of the country. You must be thinking eastern or central Canada. — Ken Wilson

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courageously avow: We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! As an American, you just bring your hockey sticks down here! We’ll meet you with equal force with beer mugs and we’ll see who’s the man… ummm, I’m on a diet, so I’ll be drinking lite beer, but that doesn’t lessen my Americanism one iota.

I thought all your beer was light beer compared to ours. That was until the micro brewery thing took off. Both sides of the border it sure beats the swill the national brewers try to pass off on the public. — Ken Wilson

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That’s it? THat’s all you got? Weak. Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – courageously avow: We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! News at 11. Chris You’re on your own dude. Typical Wilson family heroics, first flee Norway, now Canada, this boy will never fight for anything!

What have you fought for tough guy? The right to 3rd and 4th helpings? Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re sick of America and we’re not going to take it anymore eh! This is a call to all Canadians who are sick to death aboot all this America crap. Get your hockey or lacrosse sticks and join me in the invasion of the US! INVASION! As an American, you just bring your hockey sticks down here! We’ll meet you with equal force with beer mugs and we’ll see who’s the man… ummm, I’m on a diet, so I’ll be drinking lite beer, but that doesn’t lessen my Americanism one iota. Greg

How bout this? You drink 12 canadian beers and I will drink 12 american beers. Last won standing wins? Chris

Response:

a few piks

admin — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Joe Canuck wrote: >>Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: >>>William P wrote: >>>>"Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" wrote in >>>>news:dnv5ik$q5r$0@pita.alt.net: >>>>>finally uploaded just a few piks. >>>>>http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ >>>>Post pics of yourself. No offense but I can see lasagna on my >>>>own. >>>I wasn’t aware I was taking requests. lol >>Could you slice the lasagna, place a portion on a plate and take a >>shot showing us the delicious inside? >> :-D > lol next thing youins will want me to send it through the net. > then take a pik of the dirty dishes in the sink. :p

Oh man… dirty dishes! You temptress!

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And 2-3 days later we’ll all join in looking at pictures of its last remains in your authentic Aussie toy-let and have a little ceremony with candles.

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Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>>>>finally uploaded just a few piks. >>>>>>>http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>Post pics of yourself. No offense but I can see lasagna on my >>>>>>own. >>>>>I wasn’t aware I was taking requests. lol >>>>Could you slice the lasagna, place a portion on a plate and take a >>>>shot showing us the delicious inside? >>>>:-D >>>lol next thing youins will want me to send it through the net. >>>then take a pik of the dirty dishes in the sink. :p >>And 2-3 days later we’ll all join in looking at pictures of its last >>remains in your authentic Aussie toy-let and have a little ceremony >>with candles. > hahaha I should show you the 2 buttons on the aussie toilet!

Two? One for "flush now" and the other for "thinking about it, I’ll get back to ya"?

Response:

> > > lol next thing youins will want me to send it through the net. > > > then take a pik of the dirty dishes in the sink. :p > > And 2-3 days later we’ll all join in looking at pictures of its last > > remains in your authentic Aussie toy-let and have a little ceremony > > with candles. > hahaha I should show you the 2 buttons on the aussie toilet!

You don’t want to waste water while flushing those dishes! (More tips for the American in Oz.) - Vegemite tastes much nicer mixed with honey. Less aftertaste on the ol’ brewery sludge that way, and you still get the essential vitamins and minerals. (-paneon)

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> > > > Piks schmiks. What’s this I hear about you complaining about our > > > > kookaburras? > > > no worries. I took care of the ones around here. > > > chomp yum tastey! > > (hmmph) The kookaburras will have the last laugh on you yet. > after they poo all over me or are they killers?

Nooo! The kookaburras just laugh! That’s what kookaburras are for! (The Australian sense of humour wouldn’t exist if not for those crazy laughing birds…) (-paneon)

Response:

"A346" wrote in message

news:43a35d05$0$17702$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > smartguy wrote: >> x-no-archive: >> Very nice pics. I always wanted to go to Australia. > What does that have to do with visiting Perth?

What makes you think he’s talking about Perth?

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critter pictures we want critter pictures! OTS "Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" wrote in message news:dnv5ik$q5r$0@pita.alt.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> finally uploaded just a few piks. > http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ > —

Response:

"Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" wrote in news:dnv5ik$q5r$0@pita.alt.net: > finally uploaded just a few piks. > http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/

Post pics of yourself. No offense but I can see lasagna on my own.

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Visi Caulk Mah Pnats wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> William P wrote: >>"Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" wrote in >>news:dnv5ik$q5r$0@pita.alt.net: >>>finally uploaded just a few piks. >>>http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ >>Post pics of yourself. No offense but I can see lasagna on my own. > I wasn’t aware I was taking requests. lol

Could you slice the lasagna, place a portion on a plate and take a shot showing us the delicious inside? :-D

Response:

> > > finally uploaded just a few piks. > > > http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ > > Piks schmiks. What’s this I hear about you complaining about our > > kookaburras? > > (-paneon) > no worries. I took care of the ones around here. > chomp yum tastey!

(hmmph) The kookaburras will have the last laugh on you yet. (-paneon)

Response:

> I have a serious question. Where do you get keys made at? What is it > called?

Most larger shopping centres in Australia seem to have a little shop somewhere with a little old gnome that cuts keys and does shoe-repairs. These shops all look the same, and are staffed by semi-identical gnomes, but for the life of me I can’t remember what they’re called. (-paneon)

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smartguy wrote: > x-no-archive: > Very nice pics. I always wanted to go to Australia.

What does that have to do with visiting Perth?

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> finally uploaded just a few piks. > http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/

Piks schmiks. What’s this I hear about you complaining about our kookaburras? (-paneon)

Response:

London male seeks………

admin — Sun, 07 Aug 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

….Single, double-jointed, nice-nippled supermodel who owns a brewery and grows her own pot. Access to free concert tickets is an asset, as is having an open minded twin sister! Prefer wenches to have their own teeth and a functioning and easily located clitoris. I look forward to hearing from potential shags. Since there’s obviously nothing between the ears on this troll, nothing else he might have would interest me.

I agree, but would I have something of interest to you, I wonder? We could talk! — freddy fox reply to freddy (dot) fox27 (at) virgin (dot) net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Since there’s obviously nothing between the ears on this troll, nothing else he might have would interest me.

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Don’t we all, — freddy fox reply to freddy (dot) fox27 (at) virgin (dot) net except perhaps all the drugs!

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Darned the luck, I’m no where near London! — Annie As 8-05-05: 258/215.5/140 Standing at 5 foot 4. 2.5 pound loss from 7-29-05 42.5 pounds lost. 75.5 left to go. Started February/07/05

Response:

Hey Freddy I have to point out you do yourself No favours with that creepy post of yours as a reply to the humourless Patricia. She is obviously pre-mensteral and is seriously failing to grasp the concept of irony. Even more alarming is you have portrayed yourself with that post as a deeply desperate wanker! No barrel of laughs, but equally you don’t do yourself any justice neither! I wish I could offer inspiration to you both, but the pair of you just ain’t worth it, so I can’t. I’m a frayed knot.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….Single, double-jointed, nice-nippled supermodel who owns a brewery and grows her own pot. Access to free concert tickets is an asset, as is having an open minded twin sister! Prefer wenches to have their own teeth and a functioning and easily located clitoris. I look forward to hearing from potential shags. Since there’s obviously nothing between the ears on this troll, nothing else he might have would interest me. I agree, but would I have something of interest to you, I wonder? We could talk! — freddy fox reply to freddy (dot) fox27 (at) virgin (dot) net Hey Freddy I have to point out you do yourself No favours with that creepy post of yours as a reply to the humourless Patricia. She is obviously pre-mensteral and is seriously failing to grasp the concept of irony. Even more alarming is you have portrayed yourself with that post as a deeply desperate wanker!

Oh dear, you’ve seen right through me, and so quickly, I’m almost ashamed of myself for being so obvious. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No barrel of laughs, but equally you don’t do yourself any justice neither! I wish I could offer inspiration to you both, but the pair of you just ain’t worth it, so I can’t. I’m a frayed knot.

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Hunky White guy Spewed: ….Single, double-jointed, nice-nippled supermodel

…well that eliminates brit women. who owns a brewery and grows her own pot. Access to free concert tickets is an asset, as is having an open minded twin sister! Prefer wenches to have their own teeth and a

…well that eliminates brit women. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -functioning and easily located clitoris. I look forward to hearing from potential shags.

Response:

My Bikey!

admin — Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m lucky in that I live in a very large and sprawling subdivision in Spring (just north of the city of Houston). I can ride for miles and miles without ever getting on a highway. However, as I wrote in my first note, that still you on the left without even slowing down. When I’m making a left turn I’ll use a left-hand-turn hand signal, but I never assume that the nut-job behind me will know what that means and wait for me to turn left before speeding past me on the left. I either wait until they pass me, or make sure they’re slowing down and waiting for me to turn. Which is a general rule-of-thumb* when driving *any* vehicle in Houston – *ALWAYS* assume that every other driver on the road is either insane or intoxicated (and often is both) and compensate accordingly! * Trivia question… I hate this expression, "Rule of Thumb" – does anyone else know where this expression came from? Hugs, CatNipped

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The big disadvantage to riding at night is that I have to keep my mouth tightly closed or I’ll end up swallowing a bug (how do you know when a motorcycle rider is happy? count the number of bugs in his teeth!). Now, here, my friend, you are in real danger! lol! Just as I would be. Keeping my mouth shut has never been my strong suit. ROTFLMAOWTIME! Guilty as charged! ; It’s getting to the point where I get antsy the closer it gets to the time I usually ride, I can’t wait – I think I’m getting hooked on endorphins! For the first 5 miles I feel sluggish and like I’m making an effort, but the last 10 – 15 miles are just plain fun – I have to make myself stop. Wonderful. I am not getting the exercise I should, and I need to. I recall how good it felt to really get the heart pumping on a regular basis. I had to find something that was "fun" rather than a "I have to" chore. I’m glad I picked the bicycle because it takes me back to when I was a kid and riding my bike was strictly for fun and not for fitness. But you live in HOUSTON!! It may be fun but if I recall those drivers correctly, you had better be careful! I’m lucky in that I live in a very large and sprawling subdivision in Spring (just north of the city of Houston). I can ride for miles and miles without ever getting on a highway. However, as I wrote in my first note, that still you on the left without even slowing down. When I’m making a left turn I’ll use a left-hand-turn hand signal, but I never assume that the nut-job behind me will know what that means and wait for me to turn left before speeding past me on the left. I either wait until they pass me, or make sure they’re slowing down and waiting for me to turn. Which is a general rule-of-thumb* when driving *any* vehicle in Houston – *ALWAYS* assume that every other driver on the road is either insane or intoxicated (and often is both) and compensate accordingly! * Trivia question… I hate this expression, "Rule of Thumb" – does anyone else know where this expression came from?

The expression rule of thumb has been recorded since 1692 and probably wasn’ t new then. It meant then what it means now-some method or procedure that comes from practice or experience, without any formal basis. Some have tried to link it with brewing; in the days before thermometers, brewers were said to have gauged the temperature of the fermenting liquor with the thumb (just as mothers for generations have tested the temperature of the baby’s bath water with their elbows). This seems unlikely, as the thumb is not that sensitive and the range of temperatures for fermentation between too cool and too warm is quite small. It is much more likely that it comes from the ancient use of bits of the body to make measurements. There were once many of these: the unit of the foot comes from pacing out dimensions; the distance from the tip of the nose to the outstretched fingers is about one yard; horse heights are still measured in hands (the width of the palm and closed thumb, now fixed at four inches); and so on. There was an old tailors’ axiom that "twice around the thumb is once around the wrist", which turns up in Gulliver’s Travels. It’s most likely that the saying comes from the length of the first joint of the thumb, which is about an inch (I remember once seeing a carpenter actually make a rough measurement this way). So the phrase rule of thumb uses the word rule in the sense of ruler, not regulation, and directly refers to this method of measurement. (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-rul1.htm) I hope I didn’t leave anything out!! ;o)) —

Upgrading Pt Augusta airfield

admin — Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

* Pedants may replace the word accuracy with the word precision. I claim common usage

But precision is more …. precise.

Response:

….snip * Pedants may replace the word accuracy with the word precision. I claim common usage …snip Those who confuse accuracy with precision are doomed to get wrong answers expressed to 10 places.

Oh thanks a 1,000,000.003 :-)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now you see why I hate students. Oi!! — Sam… pupilpilot! Heh! :-) There is one thing though. I very much doubt any engineering student who was so unfortunate as to have me in front of their class will ever, ‘tho they live to be 103, will EVER use more than 3 significant figures if they cannot justify the extra ones The smallest whole number with 3 significant figures is 100. The largest is 999. The implied *accuracy of a number is plus or minus 1/2 the least count – for the example above that means between 100.5 and 99.5 or 999.5 and 998.5. So the implied accuracy in the first case is an error of one (100.5-99.5) in 100 and in the second case it is 1 in 1000. So 3 significant figures represent a range of accuracy of between 1% and 0.1%. Now who’s kidding who? Unless it is a project of critical national importance, such as a new brewery, no engineer expects to do better than 5%. How can you? The accuracy of the output is determined by the accuracy of the input data. That’s why factors of safety are used. * Pedants may replace the word accuracy with the word precision. I claim common usage Given the above, you can see why when I read: " …… an airframe is considered to be 997.1 metres." (That’s 4 significant figures – and right at the top of the 4 sig fig range! The implied accuracy is plus/minus 50 mm in a KILOMETRE!!!!!!) I posted: " Nobody but a student (or a graduate who should have been failed) would have reported that number. The implied accuracy is 1 in 10,000 – or 0.01%. In fluid dynamics (especially!) or any other engineering? Tell them to getta bloody grip!" (Actually it’s quite useful when you get numbers like that from authorities. Very heartning. It shows they have no clue about reality and they make for easy meat in a court case

Well said, RT The fact that the accuracy of your output can be no better than (and is usually less than) the accuracy of your least precise input was taught to me by my 4th-year high school maths teacher. Didn’t need to do a degree in engineering to understand that. (But I bow to your much more precise statement of the principle). She told us an anecdote to help raise our awareness. The anecdote was simple. "A pilot crashes his aeroplane into the side of a hill. What went wrong?" We had to suggest possible causes and/or ask for more information. She would tell us if we were right or wrong. None of us got the right answer, but I got closest with the suggestion that he misread his altimeter (I was always interested in human factors… but I digress…) The answer was that the altimeter was wrong. Instrument failure. Important lesson- learn to doubt the instruments until you have evidence otherwise, and never take their readings as exact. I was reminded of this many years later when undergoing a checkup after my transplant. The doc (a physician- very bright lad, and highly trained) took my blood pressure- it had been a bit on the high side and I was taking some mild medication for it. He looked puzzled, sat down, and began scratching his head. "You only take one tablet, right?" he said. "Yes" I replied. "Have you been dizzy lately, you know, when you stand up suddenly?" "No" I replied- in fact I had been feeling fine, so wondered what he was getting at. "What are the symptoms of high blood pressure?" I asked "High blood pressure?" he said "Well, there’s headaches, and.. but you shouldn’t have to worry about that- far from it." By now I was puzzled. "What blood pressure did you get?" I asked. "60 over 40" he replied. I laughed. "No way" I said. "Your gauge is wrong. It has to be." We went next door to the next cubicle and this time the reading was the usual 120/80. The medication was doing its stuff, and he looked very relieved. I hope he got the lesson too. Coop (And *I* had to suggest he put a "U/S" note on the faulty gauge….)

Response:

(And *I* had to suggest he put a "U/S" note on the faulty gauge….)

That’d be right. Medicine and maths are at the opposite ends of the intellectual spectrum – as is easily demonstrated when they try to use statistics and probability.

Response:

|| (And *I* had to suggest he put a "U/S" note on the faulty gauge….) | | That’d be right. Medicine and maths are at the opposite ends of the | intellectual spectrum – as is easily demonstrated when they try to use | statistics and probability. 5 out of 4 doctors agree …. — Cheers Dave Kearton

Response:

RT is being kind. Sounds like bull to me. Need a lot more definitive data here. For a start, the plumes from two vents 39m apart, 6.2m diameter blowing exhaust gas at 40m/s would remain apart due to vorticity, so the overall plume would become a bifuricated turbulent eddy. flow at ambient pressure is obviously small, and the net buoyancy only a few tens of metres above the vents would rapidly reduce due to shear diffusion mixing. What vertical velocity is defined as airframe damaging ? Is this vertical velocity what is predicted at 997.1agl ? What jet/plume model/software was used for the calculations ? What PBL characteristics/parameters were modeled ?

Response:

RT is being kind.

Me? Kind!? Heart-pills, quick! Sounds like bull to me. Need a lot more definitive data here. For a start, the plumes from two vents 39m apart, 6.2m diameter blowing exhaust gas at 40m/s would remain apart due to vorticity, so the overall plume would become a bifuricated turbulent eddy.

Ahhhhhhh – ok. It’s not my field but had assumed vorticity would have encouraged coalescence early on as they are so close to each other (approx 7 diameters). But,

I like it As an aside.. You ever come across the suggestion to blow smoke rings to reduce pollution from stacks – er, well, actually to get the pollution up higher in the atmosphere? At first it seems outright silly, but years ago we had a grader that blew some smoke rings and, I’ll give you the mail, they went up a bloody lot further than the usual exhaust plume Dunno how they are defined – a stable toroid? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What vertical velocity is defined as airframe damaging ? Is this vertical velocity what is predicted at 997.1agl ? What jet/plume model/software was used for the calculations ? What PBL characteristics/parameters were modeled ?

Response:

….snip * Pedants may replace the word accuracy with the word precision. I claim common usage

…snip Those who confuse accuracy with precision are doomed to get wrong answers expressed to 10 places. AW

Response:

Now you see why I hate students. Oi!! — Sam… pupilpilot!

Heh! :-) There is one thing though. I very much doubt any engineering student who was so unfortunate as to have me in front of their class will ever, ‘tho they live to be 103, will EVER use more than 3 significant figures if they cannot justify the extra ones The smallest whole number with 3 significant figures is 100. The largest is 999. The implied *accuracy of a number is plus or minus 1/2 the least count – for the example above that means between 100.5 and 99.5 or 999.5 and 998.5. So the implied accuracy in the first case is an error of one (100.5-99.5) in 100 and in the second case it is 1 in 1000. So 3 significant figures represent a range of accuracy of between 1% and 0.1%. Now who’s kidding who? Unless it is a project of critical national importance, such as a new brewery, no engineer expects to do better than 5%. How can you? The accuracy of the output is determined by the accuracy of the input data. That’s why factors of safety are used. * Pedants may replace the word accuracy with the word precision. I claim common usage Given the above, you can see why when I read: " …… an airframe is considered to be 997.1 metres." (That’s 4 significant figures – and right at the top of the 4 sig fig range! The implied accuracy is plus/minus 50 mm in a KILOMETRE!!!!!!) I posted: " Nobody but a student (or a graduate who should have been failed) would have reported that number. The implied accuracy is 1 in 10,000 – or 0.01%. In fluid dynamics (especially!) or any other engineering? Tell them to getta bloody grip!" (Actually it’s quite useful when you get numbers like that from authorities. Very heartning. It shows they have no clue about reality and they make for easy meat in a court case

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As suggested by: " plume rise has been calculated as being reduced to not more than 4.3 metres per second at an average height of 109.5 metres AGL (360 ft AGL) and a maximum height of 997.1 metres AGL (3271.3 ft AGL)" (4.3 m/s =1000 ft/min) Suggest massive arse covering going on in typical public servant Suggest you ignore the whole thing Thanks for the additional info.

I wonder if the local gliding club knows about this….. Coop

Response:

Harold said…. Melbourne. The stacks are quite short but the exhaust which is NOT discernible can cause airframe damage to 4000′ altitude. So, another bit of our airspace – effectively in the western VFR entry lane – vanishes from our use. Brian Brian, you’re not talking about the Newport Power Station – which has been there for yonks – are you?

Newport has one chimney which is about 200 metres tall. It might be a new gas fired peaking plant which uses gas turbines, similar to jet engines. There are a few of these being installed around Melbourne and to the west to take advantage of the gas fields near Portland/Warnambool..

Response:

RT said…. Suggest you get some data on the velocity decay from jet eflux. Suggest you’d get a hard ‘bump’ at 500ft but nothing of note above that.

Haven’t done it in years, but recall a flight over the local paper mill, at around 1,500 ft experiencing some turbulance. Have flown directly over the Loy Yang complex and don’t recall feeling any turbulence. That too was around 1,500ft (the LY chimneys are about 900ft tall). We have gas peaking plant next door to Loy Yang. 12 engines driving 6 generators. All aero derivative PW engines running on natural gas with a total of 320 MW generating capacity. Similar figures to this plant near Laverton as far as exhaust gas temps go. I wonder if there is any restrictions on where you can fly there? Maybe a called to Latrobe Valley Aero Club is in order..

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Ok – on the basis of the exhaust velocity (ca 150 km/hr) it’s a (twin) gas turbine installation and I agree the exhaust plume will be a single one because of the high initial velocity and (relatively) small separation of the two exhausts. They can be expected to coalesce, ie. " 6. Safety height where gas has slowed to a speed that will not overstress an airframe is considered to be 997.1 metres."

Bullshit. That is absolute crap. Now you see why I hate students. Nobody but a student (or a graduate who should have been failed) would have reported that number. The implied accuracy is 1 in 10,000 – or 0.01%. In fluid dynamics (especially!) or any other engineering? Tell them to getta bloody grip! Suggest you get some data on the velocity decay from jet eflux. Suggest you’d get a hard ‘bump’ at 500ft but nothing of note above that. As suggested by: " plume rise has been calculated as being reduced to not more than 4.3 metres per second at an average height of 109.5 metres AGL (360 ft AGL) and a maximum height of 997.1 metres AGL (3271.3 ft AGL)" (4.3 m/s =1000 ft/min) Suggest massive arse covering going on in typical public servant Suggest you ignore the whole thing Thanks for the additional info.

Response:

Some of you may have seen the Defence media release about the expansion of the Cultana Training Area near Pt Augusta. Most of it is about giving the Abrams drivers a greater expanse of mud to churn up, but buried in the supplementary material is mention of "upgrading the Port Augusta airstrip in order to support at the least RAAF C-130J, and possibly USAF C-141 or C-5 flight operations." And, presumably, RAAF A330s when they arrive. Cheers David

Response:

David Good news for the airfield users but watch out for any expansion of the tank training area infringing the missed approach etc at Port Ag (I’m not a visitor there so unfamiliar with the proximity of the tank area and airstrip). At the last Vic RAPAC meeting we had to agree to restrictions on the missed approach at Mangalore due to tank training " the war on terrorism takes priority) and an extended MIL area at Pukka. cheers Brian

Response:

The expanded tank training area will be the 1800 square km area of pastoral land NW of Whyalla. The closest it will get to Pt Augusta itself is about 25km. Being a live fire area, I think it will be well marked. Cheers David

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RT Don’t know power output. RAPAC Agenda doco as follws: – a.. 6.3. Creation of Danger or Restricted Area at Laverton North due Power Station Kevin Smith, CASA, submitted the following correspondence for RAPAC information. The location is at the intersection of the Princes FWY (Geelong Road) and Kororoit Creek Road and Fitzgerald Rd at Laverton North, between the FWY and Cherry Lane. S37.50′35" E144.47′13" (MELWAYS 53H4) The reason is because of the construction of a Gas Fired Peaking Power Station at 127 Cherry Lane, Laverton North, and the exhaust plume rise from the two exhaust stacks at the power station. The stacks are to be 39 metres apart and the plume rise has been calculated as being reduced to not more than 4.3 metres per second at an average height of 109.5 metres AGL (360 ft AGL) and a maximum height of 997.1 metres AGL (3271.3 ft AGL) The effects of the plume are generally expected to be within 260 metres of the centre of the two stack positions. Therefore it is intended to establish a Danger or Restricted Area within possibly a 500 metres radius of the assessed centre position of the stacks, from Surface to about 4000ft. While the power station is designed to cover peak periods at this stage, the Danger or Restricted Area will of necessity be H24. It is not yet known when the station will be operational, but I understand that mid next year is a possibility. Below notes from RAPAC meeting taken from CASA representative advice: – Brian Corro from Snowy Power Generation. understanding is as follows: – 1. Two 30 metre high outlets 39 metres apart, the exhausts merging to be treated as one exhaust plume. 14 metres base, 6.2 metres at outlet. 2. In a mixed residential / industrial area, unlikely to be specially painted to show up. 3. Possibly, still under consideration, strobe light. 4. No cooling towers and NO visible indication of operation and gas emission. Operation on grid demand, no fixed times. 5. Exhaust speed at outlet is 39.9 metres per second at 550 degrees C. 6. Safety height where gas has slowed to a speed that will not overstress an airframe is considered to be 997.1 metres. 7. On the edge of the high traffic 1500 and 2500 ML CTR steps.

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I have a severe problem with the mechanics of this (a short stack – or even a pair of short stacks – producing extreme turbulence at 4,000 ft). What is the maximum electrical power output of the power station and what fuel is used?

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No Harold, this is entirely new. Two plume stacks a short distance apart and the exhausts join to make an invisible high speed exhaust outlet that can overstress an airframe passing thru up to about 4000′. (There is a similar lower level item at the Bass Gas plant near Nyora). As it is grid demand generated there are no fixed hours of use, thus cannot be notified by NOTAM. Original suggestion to RAPAC was to make it a "D" area, we have pushed for "Restricted". The other issue arising is how many other new items will intrude into our airspace and lomit it for us. As another aside, West Sale CTAF (therefore can be used by non-radio aircraft) will later this year begin testing UAV to FL500. These are reliant on TCAS, ADS-B …… and radio …. for avoidance. I am hoping we will not get a request at RAPAC for West Sale to become a "Radio" CTAF. However, the commercial and military push could win if so. PS I can email you my RAPAC notes on either if you wish more detail. Brian

Response:

Brian, you’re not talking about the Newport Power Station – which has been there for yonks – are you? Harold.

Response:

Good news for the airfield users but watch out for any expansion of the tank training area infringing the missed approach etc at Port Ag (I’m not a visitor there so unfamiliar with the proximity of the tank area and airstrip). The expanded tank training area will be the 1800 square km area of pastoral land NW of Whyalla. The closest it will get to Pt Augusta itself is about 25km. Being a live fire area, I think it will be well marked. Cheers David

David 25 Km will hopefully be OK. However, it’s not so much whether it is well marked or not. The R352 tank firing area is about 9 Nm from Mangalore but affects the missed approach for IFR when R352 is active which will be about 50% of the time. It is unfortunate but if you look at the amount of Oz airspace that is MIL and compare it to the amount of MIL firing and flying that occurs with our depleted defence force reserves, something does not jell. East Sale airspace is bigger than the Melbourne CTR – with Tullamarine, Essendon and international traffic. Go overseas to the US and you find CTAF next door to USAF bases all existing harmoniously. Main thing for PAG is to make sure the two airspaces do not meet up in time because MIL always wins. As an aside, near the main ML runway centreline they are installing – I think at about 15 DME – a power station to backup the electric grid for Melbourne. The stacks are quite short but the exhaust which is NOT discernible can cause airframe damage to 4000′ altitude. So, another bit of our airspace – effectively in the western VFR entry lane – vanishes from our use. Brian

Response:

Observations of Domestic Airline Travel

admin — Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Scott said…. Certainly leaves the disaster that is MEL for dead. What, even the restaurant sections near the international terminal??

You betcha. My carry-on will include anywhere from 750ml to 3l of water, depending

on I noticed that a few pax had their own bottled water. Will do that next time.

Always essentials: Water, laptop, reading material, m:robe, writing material. the flight duration. Even in QF J across the Pacific, you can’t count on it being served. Yeah? QF in cattle class was offering it with the meals as well as coming around with cups afterwards. Even offered Magnum icecreams as a dessert.

I was writing specifically of long periods or turbulence across the Pacific. The QF Y and J services SYD-PER are almost as good as international – better in some respects (such as the magnums). You can even get tea in a mug in J.

Response:

troppo said…. You didnt know how VB works before you got on? silly person!

Obviously. I fly mostly Int’l. This trip to PER was my second domestic flight ever (the first one was a quick trip to OOL via Ansett 10 years ago). Besides, what’s there to know how an airline "works"? In the past, they were all pretty much the same…. Anyway, it dozen madder. I’ve now done the VB experience. Think I’ll stick with QF..

Response:

But amazingly on my returned trip from Darwin to Adelaide on a B767, they gave us a sumptuous meal with Stainless steel cutlery and a decent glass to drink out of. The service was very good, considering it was cattle class. Sometimes you can be lucky.

Darwin Adelaide on a 767 is almost certainly QF82…an international service. JB

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – troppo said…. You didnt know how VB works before you got on? silly person! Obviously. I fly mostly Int’l. This trip to PER was my second domestic flight ever (the first one was a quick trip to OOL via Ansett 10 years ago). Besides, what’s there to know how an airline "works"? In the past, they were all pretty much the same…. Anyway, it dozen madder. I’ve now done the VB experience. Think I’ll stick with QF..

Now if you want a ‘real’ experience, try Jetstar….

Response:

Especially if you spend 2 hours straight with the seatbelt signs on…. A real pain when you have spent three hours in the Qantas Pub prior to departure.

What? You do that? Never…

Response:

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just spent a few days in Perth. First time that I’ve flown domestic in some years, and a first with VB and Qantas domestic. Flew there with QF. Couldn’t get a return flight with QF, so was forced to go with VB. QF cost us $430, 2 pax, one way, VB $427. Both pre-booked 2 months in advance. Flew out Sat evening on a 767-300 (I think). Seats typical cattle class, but tolerable as the missus and I were able to spread ourselves across a couple of empty rows. Food, well, typical airline fare. Movie good (Million dollar baby). Overall, enjoyable flight. At PER domestic, forced to sit in aircraft as the terminal gate we were heading to had a fault. Had to be towed to another gate. Dunno why the crew couldn’t taxi to it themselves. Then at baggage claim, the belt broke. Had to wait til they got another one running before claiming our luggage. (more whinging about PER Domestic later) Perth’s a beautiful city. Checked out Freo. Cheap public transport, clean, not sullied or vandalised. Nice restaurants, pubs, etc. Lots to do. Trip home was, well, "memorable". (The senior FA welcomed us to the flight and wished us a memorable flight. I said to the missus, – I hope that it’s not THAT memorable…) 737-800 with seats designed for kids, I’m sure of it. 2 rows of 3 seats. No inflight entertainment, other than whatever was playing on the radio that you plug headsets into. And you had to buy them. They were little more than el-cheapo earbud types. As it was a late arvo, early evening flight, expected dinner. Yep, there was, but had to pay for it. $8.50 for what’s essentially a $4 frozen TV dinner was a tad rich, I thought. Thankfully, though, they had a vegetarian meal that the missus could eat (the QF ordered and supplied vege meal was quite delicious, according to her). Perth airport (Domestic) leaves a lot to be desired. Because of our check in times, we didn’t have time to get lunch in town. So, we hunted down a kiosk that sold pies, pasties and stale sandwiches. I know it’s not MEL, but I expected something a tad better. Oh well. Thing is, with VB, even water had to be paid for. At $3 a pop for a 300ml bottle, it ain’t cheap. I s’pose I could’ve gone for a walk to the dunny and drunk out of the tap there. I would have thought that with the DVT issues that VB would have at least offered this as a complimentary service. $3 for a crappy tasting teabag tea and lukewarm water was also something that made the trip home "memorable". If the tickets were significantly cheaper than the QF ones, perhaps I could understand, but they weren’t. Actual flights by both airlines went without a hitch. No delays, no hiccups, smooth ride, etc.

I remeber a few years back, they were serving up those cheap shoddy cardboard boxes with contents that left little to be desired. This consisted of: (1) Small bottle of water (2) A scrawny little bread roll with beef and cheese (3) A chocolate bar the size of my smallest finger. On my first trip to BNE I handed it back to the Flt Steward. I told him that my dog gets better food than that. On my last trip to ASP, I examined the contetnts of the box. Placed it carefully on the floor and stomped my foot on it. But amazingly on my returned trip from Darwin to Adelaide on a B767, they gave us a sumptuous meal with Stainless steel cutlery and a decent glass to drink out of. The service was very good, considering it was cattle class. Sometimes you can be lucky.

Response:

Sylvia said…. Well, yes, that’s my point. 95 degrees is plenty hot enough, unless you’re a tea connoisseur. Which I am.

I guess that’s taken moving to Aspen off your agenda then Sylvia.

Response:

You didnt know how VB works before you got on? silly person!

Response:

Scott said…. As you head towards the QF Pub escalators, there’s a place on the right, sunken floor, does pretty decent food. Steak sandwiches with real steak, couple of pasta varieties – some of the best real food you will find in an Australian domestic terminal.

Oh, didn’t see that. Drat. Next time, if there’s a next time – the missus wants to do a mother daughter thing and take the daughter over there for a week or so before she starts settling into mother mode… Certainly leaves the disaster that is MEL for dead.

What, even the restaurant sections near the international terminal?? My carry-on will include anywhere from 750ml to 3l of water, depending on

I noticed that a few pax had their own bottled water. Will do that next time. the flight duration. Even in QF J across the Pacific, you can’t count on it being served.

Yeah? QF in cattle class was offering it with the meals as well as coming around with cups afterwards. Even offered Magnum icecreams as a dessert.

Response:

Scott said…. Next time, you MUST check out "Che Jean-Claude Patisserie" in Leaderville.

We only had 3 days there. More of a "recon" trip. Main sights were Freo , the Italian restaurants there and the prison, Subiaco Markets, and the obligatory tramping around Perth’s CBD shopping malls. Me, I was happy to prop in this "Micro Brewery – Nail Ale" pub on Murray St near the hotel and watch the MotoGP standing order with my staff in Perth that whenever I’m in town, it’s on the itinerary. Daily, if possible.

I take it a patisserie’s a bakery of sorts? If so, my diet precludes such luxuries. Mainly due to a lifetime of over-indulgance when younger….

Response:

Especially if you spend 2 hours straight with the seatbelt signs on….

A real pain when you have spent three hours in the Qantas Pub prior to departure. A CSM said they had never seen anyone bolt so quickly from their WHY seat to the loo before….. Was on an SP too, and was in zone 2, and the loos were right at the back, so they weren’t overly close….. Dave ===== NSW Rural Fire Service – become a volunteer today. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/

Response:

duffo21 said…. Perth airport (Domestic) leaves a lot to be desired. Because of our check in times, we didn’t have time to get lunch in town. So, we hunted down a kiosk that sold pies, pasties and stale sandwiches. I know it’s not MEL, but I expected something a tad better. Oh well. Man, you should see it at like 1030pm at night when the 3 red eyes are getting processed. 450 passengers trying to get through an inadequately sized check in facility in the space of an hour. Been there, done that…..

I can imagine. One thing that struck me as odd, was the VB only had one check in counter operating and that fellow also manned the gate (set the jet bridge up to the A/C etc). Must be one hell of a tight operation. Hope Patrick gets its money’s worth if it takes over the company…

Response:

Sylvia said…. Well, yes, that’s my point. 95 degrees is plenty hot enough, unless you’re a tea connoisseur.

Which I am. I can’t stand that Liptons crap that people insist on offering me when I visit or that workplaces offer their customers or employees. I’m a Tetley Big Cuppa fellow, myself. Or at night, I’m trying Tetley’s new de-caff version. I actually take my own to work for nightshift, as they won’t supply de-caff as well as caff versions of the Bushells tea that they supply.

Response:

Perth’s a beautiful city. Checked out Freo. Cheap public transport, clean, not sullied or vandalised. Nice restaurants, pubs, etc. Lots to do.

Next time, you MUST check out "Che Jean-Claude Patisserie" in Leaderville. Seriously addictive treats – I have a standing order with my staff in Perth that whenever I’m in town, it’s on the itinerary. Daily, if possible.

Response:

At PER domestic, forced to sit in aircraft as the terminal gate we were heading to had a fault. Had to be towed to another gate. Dunno why the crew couldn’t taxi to it themselves. Actual flights by both airlines went without a hitch. No delays, no hiccups, smooth ride, etc.

???

Response:

Flew there with QF. Couldn’t get a return flight with QF, so was forced to go with VB.

Yech! Then at baggage claim, the belt broke. Had to wait til they got another one running before claiming our luggage. (more whinging about PER Domestic later)

Dunno how you noticed, PER domestic baggage handling is appalling. Perth airport (Domestic) leaves a lot to be desired. Because of our check in times, we didn’t have time to get lunch in town. So, we hunted down a kiosk that sold pies, pasties and stale sandwiches. I know it’s not MEL, but I expected something a tad better. Oh well.

As you head towards the QF Pub escalators, there’s a place on the right, sunken floor, does pretty decent food. Steak sandwiches with real steak, couple of pasta varieties – some of the best real food you will find in an Australian domestic terminal. Certainly leaves the disaster that is MEL for dead. Thing is, with VB, even water had to be paid for. At $3 a pop for a 300ml bottle, it ain’t cheap. I s’pose I could’ve gone for a walk to the dunny and drunk out of the tap there. I would have thought that with the DVT issues that VB would have at least offered this as a complimentary service. $3 for a crappy tasting teabag tea and lukewarm water was also something that made the trip home "memorable".

My carry-on will include anywhere from 750ml to 3l of water, depending on the flight duration. Even in QF J across the Pacific, you can’t count on it being served. Especially if you spend 2 hours straight with the seatbelt signs on….

Response:

Well, there’s something to know in case any cabin crew try to fob one off with claims that it’s the low pressure that prevents them delivering adequately hot water.

In theory, at 29,000ft the boiling point would be around 70 degrees. I’m not going to climb Mt Everest to prove this one, but perhaps they could claim no cabin pressure as the cause… shortly before they passed out due to hypoxia

Response:

Sylvia said…. Well, there’s something to know in case any cabin crew try to fob one off with claims that it’s the low pressure that prevents them delivering adequately hot water.

I doubt that they’d be aware of this concept. In any case, 95 degs is 95 degs, whether it’s boiling or not…..

Response:

Sylvia said…. Well, there’s something to know in case any cabin crew try to fob one off with claims that it’s the low pressure that prevents them delivering adequately hot water. I doubt that they’d be aware of this concept. In any case, 95 degs is 95 degs, whether it’s boiling or not…..

Well, yes, that’s my point. 95 degrees is plenty hot enough, unless you’re a tea connoisseur. Sylvia.

Response:

yeah. I really enjoyed it too the last time I went. The CBD is small though compared to eastern cities. The skyline has got like 6 skyscrapers!!! But yes, definately worth the trip if ya going on holiday Checked out Freo. Cheap public transport, clean, not sullied or vandalised. Nice restaurants, pubs, etc. Lots to do.

Obviously didn’t take a trip to Rockingham…… :-s – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Trip home was, well, "memorable". (The senior FA welcomed us to the flight and wished us a memorable flight. I said to the missus, – I hope that it’s not THAT memorable…) 737-800 with seats designed for kids, I’m sure of it. 2 rows of 3 seats. No inflight entertainment, other than whatever was playing on the radio that you plug headsets into. And you had to buy them. They were little more than el-cheapo earbud types. As it was a late arvo, early evening flight, expected dinner. Yep, there was, but had to pay for it. $8.50 for what’s essentially a $4 frozen TV dinner was a tad rich, I thought. Thankfully, though, they had a vegetarian meal that the missus could eat (the QF ordered and supplied vege meal was quite delicious, according to her). Perth airport (Domestic) leaves a lot to be desired. Because of our check in times, we didn’t have time to get lunch in town. So, we hunted down a kiosk that sold pies, pasties and stale sandwiches. I know it’s not MEL, but I expected something a tad better. Oh well.

Man, you should see it at like 1030pm at night when the 3 red eyes are getting processed. 450 passengers trying to get through an inadequately sized check in facility in the space of an hour. Been there, done that….. Thing is, with VB, even water had to be paid for. At $3 a pop for a 300ml bottle, it ain’t cheap. I s’pose I could’ve gone for a walk to the dunny and drunk out of the tap there. I would have thought that with the DVT issues that VB would have at least offered this as a complimentary service. $3 for a crappy tasting teabag tea and lukewarm water was also something that made the trip home "memorable". If the tickets were significantly cheaper than the QF ones, perhaps I could understand, but they weren’t. Actual flights by both airlines went without a hitch. No delays, no hiccups, smooth ride, etc.

Yeah, I live in Brissy. 4 hrs of black duffo21

Response:

Anyone offhand know the boiling point of water at 8000 ft? Aspen High School reported it to be 95.5 at 8000ft with an ambient air temperature of 22.88. Aspen Middle School reported it to be 95.35 at 8000ft with an ambient air temperature of 23.625 http://www.k12science.org/curriculum/boilproj/boilproj_old/F98uncheck…

Thanks Andrew. Well, there’s something to know in case any cabin crew try to fob one off with claims that it’s the low pressure that prevents them delivering adequately hot water. Sylvia.

Response:

@gmail.com: Thing is, with VB, even water had to be paid for. At $3 a pop for a 300ml bottle, it ain’t cheap. I s’pose I could’ve gone for a walk to the dunny and drunk out of the tap there. I would have thought that with the DVT issues that VB would have at least offered this as a complimentary service. $3 for a crappy tasting teabag tea and lukewarm water was also something that made the trip home "memorable".

Water you have to pay for.. BUT ice is free So I discovered on a trip with VB to Adelaide (and back again).

Response:

Anyone offhand know the boiling point of water at 8000 ft?

Aspen High School reported it to be 95.5 at 8000ft with an ambient air temperature of 22.88. Aspen Middle School reported it to be 95.35 at 8000ft with an ambient air temperature of 23.625 http://www.k12science.org/curriculum/boilproj/boilproj_old/F98uncheck… Cheers, Andrew.

Response:

Thing is, with VB, even water had to be paid for. At $3 a pop for a 300ml bottle, it ain’t cheap.

’s odd. I remember being on VB once, before take off, and I had a splitting headache. I wanted to take some pills. Since we were in a seat-belts on period, I asked the stewardess to get me some water. She returned with a bottle of the stuff, with the comment that she couldn’t reach the water tap, and so was just giving me a bottle. So I think you can have plain water without having to pay for it – but if you’re willing to pay for a bottle, they’re willing to sell it to you. BTW, if the water provided for the tea is lukewarm, then demand that it be replaced. You have no more obligation to accept it there than in other other circumstance where you’ve paid for tea. Anyone offhand know the boiling point of water at 8000 ft? Sylvia.

Response:

Just spent a few days in Perth. First time that I’ve flown domestic in some years, and a first with VB and Qantas domestic. Flew there with QF. Couldn’t get a return flight with QF, so was forced to go with VB. QF cost us $430, 2 pax, one way, VB $427. Both pre-booked 2 months in advance. Flew out Sat evening on a 767-300 (I think). Seats typical cattle class, but tolerable as the missus and I were able to spread ourselves across a couple of empty rows. Food, well, typical airline fare. Movie good (Million dollar baby). Overall, enjoyable flight. At PER domestic, forced to sit in aircraft as the terminal gate we were heading to had a fault. Had to be towed to another gate. Dunno why the crew couldn’t taxi to it themselves. Then at baggage claim, the belt broke. Had to wait til they got another one running before claiming our luggage. (more whinging about PER Domestic later) Perth’s a beautiful city. Checked out Freo. Cheap public transport, clean, not sullied or vandalised. Nice restaurants, pubs, etc. Lots to do. Trip home was, well, "memorable". (The senior FA welcomed us to the flight and wished us a memorable flight. I said to the missus, – I hope that it’s not THAT memorable…) 737-800 with seats designed for kids, I’m sure of it. 2 rows of 3 seats. No inflight entertainment, other than whatever was playing on the radio that you plug headsets into. And you had to buy them. They were little more than el-cheapo earbud types. As it was a late arvo, early evening flight, expected dinner. Yep, there was, but had to pay for it. $8.50 for what’s essentially a $4 frozen TV dinner was a tad rich, I thought. Thankfully, though, they had a vegetarian meal that the missus could eat (the QF ordered and supplied vege meal was quite delicious, according to her). Perth airport (Domestic) leaves a lot to be desired. Because of our check in times, we didn’t have time to get lunch in town. So, we hunted down a kiosk that sold pies, pasties and stale sandwiches. I know it’s not MEL, but I expected something a tad better. Oh well. Thing is, with VB, even water had to be paid for. At $3 a pop for a 300ml bottle, it ain’t cheap. I s’pose I could’ve gone for a walk to the dunny and drunk out of the tap there. I would have thought that with the DVT issues that VB would have at least offered this as a complimentary service. $3 for a crappy tasting teabag tea and lukewarm water was also something that made the trip home "memorable". If the tickets were significantly cheaper than the QF ones, perhaps I could understand, but they weren’t. Actual flights by both airlines went without a hitch. No delays, no hiccups, smooth ride, etc.

Response:

Safe Hydropulse Storage

admin — Sat, 21 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

All, Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted bleach through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I wasn’t too worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting between usage. But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some nasty bug making a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on the next use. So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping others could comment and advise. Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the machine to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap water and a splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute pause in the middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the microwave. After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine then I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about 1/2 way and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I wipe everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel and put it in the cupboard. So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way? One final questions; when I was irrigating daily I was using up the 2.5 gal. container of distilled water pretty quickly. But now that I am not using it every day the distilled water is sitting around. So I was wonder if there is a chance that my distilled water is harboring any bacteria? To make it flow during use I have to punch a small hole in the top so air can get in and water can get out. Is this a risk? (Can you tell I am paranoid of getting another sinus infection Regards, David

Response:

In news:ec6dnTOM9Zh3NxLfRVn-jw@inreach.com, DMF typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All, > Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different > antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to > use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it > was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use > the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to > open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate > when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how > should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard > for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus > infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted > bleach through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I > wasn’t too worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting > between usage. But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some > nasty bug making a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on > the next use. So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping > others could comment and advise. > Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the > machine to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap > water and a splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute > pause in the middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. > Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the > microwave. > After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine > then I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about > 1/2 way and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I > wipe everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of > any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at > the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel > and put it in the cupboard. > So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way? > One final questions; when I was irrigating daily I was using up the > 2.5 gal. container of distilled water pretty quickly. But now that I > am not using it every day the distilled water is sitting around. So I > was wonder if there is a chance that my distilled water is harboring > any bacteria? To make it flow during use I have to punch a small > hole in the top so air can get in and water can get out. Is this a > risk? (Can you tell I am paranoid of getting another sinus infection > > Regards, > David

You’ll be the first to wear out an irrigator with over-cleaning!! I run about 1/2 a tank of tap water through mine after irrigation and all seems well. …Allen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DMF wrote: > All, > Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different > antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to > use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it > was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use > the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to > open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate > when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how > should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard > for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus > infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted bleach > through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I wasn’t too > worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting between usage. > But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some nasty bug making > a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on the next use. > So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping others could > comment and advise. > Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the machine > to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap water and a > splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute pause in the > middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. > Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the > microwave. > After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine then > I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about 1/2 way > and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I wipe > everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of > any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at > the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel > and put it in the cupboard. > So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way?

If I ever stop irrigating with my HydroPulse for more than a couple of weeks (as I did after sinus surgery when I found it to be a bit too rough for my nosebleeds), I just throw it out and buy a brand new one. $80 is a small price to pay to avoid a nasty sinus infection. Bugs that multiply in stagnant water inside uncleaned irrigators include Pseudomonas. Believe me, you do NOT want to get a Pseudomonas infection. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Allen L. wrote > You’ll be the first to wear out an irrigator with over-cleaning!!

The cleaning procedure is only 6 tanks worth of wear every 1-2 months or more — when I had the sinus infection I was using it 2-4 times per DAY plus flush before and after each use and a flush with bleach on the weekend. In fact, I wore out my first HP in about 6 months. The company graciously provided me with a new one, since it was still under warranty. > I run about 1/2 a tank of tap water through mine after irrigation > and all seems well.

I don’t mean to be snide, but this is like saying you’ve been playing Russian Roulette for years and never had a problem It doesn’t actually compare to Russian Roulette because I don’t know what my risk is regarding bacteria growth in a stored Hydro Pulse. I was hoping to get a better understanding about the storage risk. If some one convinces me that its a fairly high risk then I will probably stop using it and resort to those sealed sterile saline spray bottles to clean out nose dust after servicing the inside of a PC. Regards, David

Response:

Steven L. wrote… > If I ever stop irrigating with my HydroPulse for more than a couple of > weeks (as I did after sinus surgery when I found it to be a bit too rough > for my nosebleeds), I just throw it out and buy a brand new one. $80 is > a small price to pay to avoid a nasty sinus infection.

For your situation, I agree. However, buying a new HP is not a practical solution since I would need a new one every 1-2 months. I was hoping I could find out what the risks are and/or what the best way is to clean it for storage. If storage is inherently risky then I will probably resort to using those sealed, sterilized bottles of saline for cleaning my nose after I service a PC. I’ll miss using my HP though. > Bugs that multiply in stagnant water inside uncleaned irrigators include > Pseudomonas. Believe me, you do NOT want to get a Pseudomonas > infection.

I dread getting ANY sinus infections, worst-of-class or not. Last year was a nightmare and I didn’t have it nearly as bad as many on this newsgroup. My heart goes out to sinus sufferers — I’m fortunate that mine did not morph into a chronic condition. Regards, David

Response:

On 5/21/05 2:41 PM, in article ec6dnTOM9Zh3NxLfRVn…@inreach.com, "DMF" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > All, > Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different > antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to > use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it > was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use > the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to > open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate > when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how > should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard > for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus > infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted bleach > through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I wasn’t too > worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting between usage. > But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some nasty bug making > a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on the next use. > So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping others could > comment and advise. > Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the machine > to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap water and a > splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute pause in the > middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. > Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the > microwave. > After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine then > I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about 1/2 way > and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I wipe > everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of > any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at > the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel > and put it in the cupboard. > So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way? > One final questions; when I was irrigating daily I was using up the > 2.5 gal. container of distilled water pretty quickly. But now that I > am not using it every day the distilled water is sitting around. So I > was wonder if there is a chance that my distilled water is harboring > any bacteria? To make it flow during use I have to punch a small > hole in the top so air can get in and water can get out. Is this a > risk? (Can you tell I am paranoid of getting another sinus infection > Regards, > David

If it is sitting there for a month, should be covered. Then run 200 cc of 3% hydrogen peroxide through the machine – tip in the basin so it recirculates. Then let it stand for several hours or overnight. Then rinse with clean water.

Response:

DMF wrote: > Steven L. wrote… >>If I ever stop irrigating with my HydroPulse for more than a couple of >>weeks (as I did after sinus surgery when I found it to be a bit too rough >>for my nosebleeds), I just throw it out and buy a brand new one. $80 is >>a small price to pay to avoid a nasty sinus infection. > For your situation, I agree. However, buying a new HP is not a practical > solution since I would need a new one every 1-2 months. I was hoping I > could find out what the risks are and/or what the best way is to clean it > for storage.

Why store it away for long periods? Just take it out every week and run the Clorox bleach solution thru it just as if you were irrigating with it. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Steven L wrote… > Why store it away for long periods? Just take it out every week > and run the Clorox bleach solution thru it just as if you were > irrigating with it.

That’s one possible solution… but I have decided I will only use the Hydro Pulse if I get a cold or if my allergies act up. I will just use the saline sprays to clear out nose dust from when I service PCs. (See my reply to Dr. Grossan’s post). Regards, David

Response:

Murray Grossan wrote… > If it is sitting there for a month, should be covered. Then run > 200cc of 3% hydrogen peroxide through the machine – tip in > the basin so it recirculates. Then let it stand for several hours > or overnight. Then rinse with clean water.

Based on Dr. Grossan’s reply and a little research on the web regarding the difficulty in sterilizing and disinfecting various items (medical equipment, beer brewing equipment, canning and jarring supplies,etc) I’ve come to the conclusion that occasionally using the Hydro-Pulse is probably not a good idea. I’m going to switch over to using saline to clean my nose of dust when working on PCs. I’ll keep the Hydro Pulse on standby if my allergies act up or if I get a head cold and use Dr. Grossan’s procedure to clean it out before use. Thanks to all who replied to my post. Regards, David

Response:

On 5/23/05 5:52 PM, in article CJSdnSfX67VA5w_fRVn…@inreach.com, "DMF" wrote: > Steven L wrote… >> Why store it away for long periods? Just take it out every week >> and run the Clorox bleach solution thru it just as if you were >> irrigating with it. > That’s one possible solution… but I have decided I will only use the > Hydro Pulse if I get a cold or if my allergies act up. I will just use > the saline sprays to clear out nose dust from when I service PCs. > (See my reply to Dr. Grossan’s post). > Regards, > David

That is what I recommend. Once your nose is normal, it doesn’t have to be made more normal. We have patients who used the Hydro Pulse two weeks and didn’t need it any more too.

Response:

OT. Go west ASAPM.

admin — Thu, 12 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a native Iowan, but for 20 years I’ve been living in San Diego – a place where these Depression Era words are still painfully true: DO RE MI Lots of folks back East, they say, is leavin’ home every day, Beatin’ the hot old dusty way to the California line. ‘Cross the desert sands they roll, gettin’ out of that old dust bowl, They think they’re goin’ to a sugar bowl, but here’s what they find Now, the police at the port of entry say, "You’re number fourteen thousand for today." Oh, if you ain’t got the do re mi, folks, you ain’t got the do re mi, Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee. California is a garden of Eden, a paradise to live in or see; But believe it or not, you won’t find it so hot If you ain’t got the do re mi. You want to buy you a home or a farm, that can’t deal nobody harm, Or take your vacation by the mountains or sea. Don’t swap your old cow for a car, you better stay right where you are, Better take this little tip from me. ‘Cause I look through the want ads every day But the headlines on the papers always say: If you ain’t got the do re mi, boys, you ain’t got the do re mi, Why, you better go back to beautiful Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Georgia, Tennessee. California is a garden of Eden, a paradise to live in or see; But believe it or not, you won’t find it so hot If you ain’t got the do re mi. Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

Just a bad experience I had with Ebay, warning for all.

admin — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

The rules seem to assume that all cartridges are the same. Some printers (some Canon machines, for instance) have a separate printhead as part of the machine, rather than installed in the cartridge. These cartridges are relatively trouble-free. I have made it a point to buy only Canon printers (like the S300 or i475D) that use dirt cheap cartridges that I buy in bulk on eBay. They work great, especially the ones I bought from seller abacus24-7.

Some of the pallet sellers will sell you empty, used carts as new. Beware. — GW

Response:

In my time in eBay, I’ve bought advertised NIB ink cartridges, and have never been taken. Not expired, worked fine to EOL. And I’ve sold a few used, but fully-functional laptops on eBay, getting more than I thought I would, and never had a compaint from a buyer. Our experiences with eBay, PayPal, buyers and sellers will vary; our experiences with SB will not; he’s like a consistent hemorrhoid; get it quieted down, and it always come back and chaps your ass. — Regards, Jim – from Texas, USA (Texas Motto: "One Riot, One Ranger") All Posts Sent Have Been Scanned !

Response:

CAUTION: The living being once known as "Don Lancaster" has been deceased for some number of years. As many have found out, Don’s posts have been generated by an increasingly malfunctioning TRS-80 Eliza computer program, although its results are certainly more credible than those from the odd little creature that calls itself "SB". No need to send replies to "Don", as they cannot be read from beyond the grave. No need to send replies to SB as they will not be comprehended. — Regards, Jim – from Texas, USA (Texas Motto: "One Riot, One Ranger") All Posts Sent Have Been Scanned !

Response:

I always buy my cartridges off an eBay seller, and I’ve never had a problem. They’re not refilled, not OEM, not expired. I think I must have been lucky to just happen to have selected a legitimate seller. A

Response:

Right but you’re also working on the premise that I was sitting next to a calendar looking at the particular days. Absolutely you are right though I did wait way too long before I started complaining. I suppose the fact that I had purchased many things in the past via e-bay and never had a problem, I was a little lackadaisical. I just assumed shipping was slow with customs, etc. I have contacted them several times, they told me once via email that it had been shipped, 2 weeks later it hadn’t been shipped because they didn’t receive the pay. I sent them the PayPal receipt and then they told me they would take care of it ASAP. Never did, I emailed them 2 weeks ago, they said they are waiting for USPS forms for file a lost parcel? I don’t know

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all; I purchased 2 Ink Cartridges from a company called "EliteInkJets" owned by a man named Nadim Mourad. I purchased these items on the 15th of November. It is now the 7th of February and I still haven’t received the ink. I’ve been trying to email him several times to figure out when the ink was coming and still nothing.. I complained to PayPal and they told me that because I waited to long it’s passed the 30 days I can file in (even though it was 2-4 weeks delivery) 4 weeks delivery = 28 days. You could have waited him out and *still* had time to file your PayPal claim. Just wanted to let you know that Ebay and Paypal doesn’t "cover" you like they claim they do. And Eliteinkjets.com should not be trusted. Thanks, Jon We’re sorry you didn’t read the instructions. But….you CAN file a credit card chargeback (if you paid via credit card). Kris

Response:

Yeah good call, I bought another set of Cartridges (I know I’m a sucker for punishment) from another person "tonerday" and they emailed me as soon as it was one, and they sent me an email telling me it has been shipped and to let them know if any problems? So far so good I say We’ll see..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I purchased 2 Ink Cartridges from a company called "EliteInkJets" … Searching … "388 items found for EliteInkJets in Computers & Networking" They are obviously too busy selling to be bothered with fulfillment I purchased these items on the 15th of November. And you waited until all your options expired just why? Just wanted to let you know that Ebay and Paypal doesn’t "cover" you like they claim they do. Had you paid via credit-card funded PP, you could at least have done a chargeback. And had to come to a.m.o.e. before bidding, we could have pointed out some things like (taking a random EIJ auction): Title: "(3) HP #78 TriColor C6578 HP 78 Inkjet Cartridges" Fraudulent. These are refills, as the description later notes. "Item location: Ebay" Big red flag "Positive Feedback: 98.8%" Needs to be higher. And did you look at the FB? The many negs (3 removed) are mostly for slow/no shipping. "After you won the auction" no comment "you may also send payment direct to our Pay Pal email account at elitetradingcorporation -at – hotmail.com" hotmail? excuse me? "Note: we are prohibited from accepting "walk-in" or "will call" orders." right, sure And people wonder "PowerSeller" is not a term of endearment. — http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Response:

ALL laptops for sale on eBay are impaired.

Favorite comment: "We haven’t had time to check this one folks, so it’s as is but it looks OK". Translation: "RUN! Run now! Do not look back. Keep running. Scream loudly like a girl while running. Do it." — GW

Response:

1. Don’t buy inkjet cartridges on eBay. 2. If you are tempted to ignore rule 1, see rule 1. 3. When you get extremely, painfully, experienced, you won’t need these rules.

What about if you buy them from a power seller with feedback well over 90%? Lumpy — In Your Ears for 40 Years http://www.lumpymusic.com

Response:

1. Don’t buy inkjet cartridges on eBay. 2. If you are tempted to ignore rule 1, see rule 1. 3. When you get extremely, painfully, experienced, you won’t need these rules. What about if you buy them from a power seller with feedback well over 90%?

Then the ink is sure to be lumpy. Clogs the nozzles. Ugh. — http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all; I purchased 2 Ink Cartridges from a company called "EliteInkJets" owned by a man named Nadim Mourad. I purchased these items on the 15th of November. It is now the 7th of February and I still haven’t received the ink. I’ve been trying to email him several times to figure out when the ink was coming and still nothing.. I complained to PayPal and they told me that because I waited to long it’s passed the 30 days I can file in (even though it was 2-4 weeks delivery) Just wanted to let you know that Ebay and Paypal doesn’t "cover" you like they claim they do. And Eliteinkjets.com should not be trusted. Thanks, Jon

By the same token, you bear the responsibility of following up on your purchases when they take more than a week to deliver. I’ve purchased stuff that came from HONG KONG … which took only 12 days from the sale close until the item arrived at my door in Los Angeles. Paypal does say that after 30 days, the deal is done. — ~Philip.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The vast majority of inkjet carts sold on eBay are refills. More on refills later. If you do find unexpired, unopened NIB OEM carts, the prices (including S&H) are apt to be no more attractive than your favorite .com. I found expired unopened NIB OEM carts on eBay and the prices were tiny. Since these carts are sealed in foil packs, then in boxes, then sealed in plastic, I figure the printer will die before I run out of working carts for my old printer. Caveat Emptor. Yep. Caveat Emptor. Some brands of carts are encoded with an electronic expiry date, and the printers will refuse to even attempt to print with them beyond a certain time after that date. You need to make sure your printer isn’t one of these, and or the carts are still in the will-print window. There’s also the question of where that cart has been all this time, perhaps in an intermodal container in Fargo North Dakota, freezing and thawing, or in an intermodal container in Henderson NV, baking and cooling? But sure, if you know your printer, are comfortable with the seller, have confidence in the date they advertised, then outdated cartridges can be a great deal. Like I said, I’ve sold such on eBay. (I said "don’t buy them on eBay", not "don’t sell them on eBay" We also counsel people here not to buy laptops on eBay. I think I’m about to sell another one (impaired).

ALL laptops for sale on eBay are impared. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Response:

We also counsel people here not to buy laptops on eBay. I think I’m about to sell another one (impaired). ALL laptops for sale on eBay are impared.

Actually, a substantial number of them are entirely non-existent. The buyer’s money, however, is real. However, in the case of real (working) laptops, the buyer’s money is often not real. But junk laptops clearly sold as junk are generally non subject to The Don’s normal wise advice concerning the abundant risks of buying or selling laptops on eBay. — http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Response:

No. my printer is an old dumb as a brick job. You can even refill them and it’ll keep on truckin’. There’s also the question of where that cart has been all this time, perhaps in an intermodal container in Fargo North Dakota, freezing and thawing, or in an intermodal container in Henderson NV, baking and cooling?

When you get 12 carts for $7 and the retail is $35 each – that’s a buy signal to me. But sure, if you know your printer, are comfortable with the seller, have confidence in the date they advertised, then outdated cartridges can be a great deal. We also counsel people here not to buy laptops on eBay. I think I’m about to sell another one (impaired).

I have always been opposed to ’service contracts’. Bad deal on a desktop, say. However with laptops I’m 100% in favor of them. — GW

Response:

They also have an 800 number in their auction, have you called and asked when your order was shipped? If you call, it may result in getting your item, while posting here is certainly not going to result in getting your item.

Call daily. Call the police in his town also. — GW

Response:

The vast majority of inkjet carts sold on eBay are refills. More on refills later. If you do find unexpired, unopened NIB OEM carts, the prices (including S&H) are apt to be no more attractive than your favorite .com. I found expired unopened NIB OEM carts on eBay and the prices were tiny. Since these carts are sealed in foil packs, then in boxes, then sealed in plastic, I figure the printer will die before I run out of working carts for my old printer. Caveat Emptor.

Yep. Caveat Emptor. Some brands of carts are encoded with an electronic expiry date, and the printers will refuse to even attempt to print with them beyond a certain time after that date. You need to make sure your printer isn’t one of these, and or the carts are still in the will-print window. There’s also the question of where that cart has been all this time, perhaps in an intermodal container in Fargo North Dakota, freezing and thawing, or in an intermodal container in Henderson NV, baking and cooling? But sure, if you know your printer, are comfortable with the seller, have confidence in the date they advertised, then outdated cartridges can be a great deal. Like I said, I’ve sold such on eBay. (I said "don’t buy them on eBay", not "don’t sell them on eBay" We also counsel people here not to buy laptops on eBay. I think I’m about to sell another one (impaired). — http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Response:

: I purchased 2 Ink Cartridges from a company called "EliteInkJets" owned : by a man named Nadim Mourad… You are lucky, it’s only 2 ink jet cartridges and you learned a valuable lesson cheaply: do some checking, act before your deadlines expire. Could have been far more expensive. Keep after them, they may still ship.

Response:

Although the OP in the original thread is intent on warning about a particular seller (whose listings contain numerous red, orange and yellow flags for experienced bidders), there’s more general issue of buying inkjet cartridges on eBay. Three rules about that: 1. Don’t buy inkjet cartridges on eBay. 2. If you are tempted to ignore rule 1, see rule 1. 3. When you get extremely, painfully, experienced, you won’t need these rules. The vast majority of inkjet carts sold on eBay are refills. More on refills later. If you do find unexpired, unopened NIB OEM carts, the prices (including S&H) are apt to be no more attractive than your favorite .com. Very few refills are so identified in the auction Title. Titles usually just reflect the OEM SKU. Yes, this violates eBay policies (misleading titles, keyword spam, perhaps others). No, as usual, eBay seems to have no inclination to enforce obvious blatent, easy to find violations of policies. More than a few such auctions don’t even admit that the carts are refills (or "remanufactured"), or they bury that key fact in a blizzard of verbiage they figure you won’t read. If the carts are actually OEM, there’s a high probability that they are either/both: – expired – open box (probably "wrong cart for my printer" returns). If the seller "neglects" to tell you the expiration date on the carton, odds are the cart is expired. Expired carts may be a reasonable deal, depending on how long expired, brand and model. But if the seller won’t tell you the date up front, that’s a warning about that seller. So ask them. The answer may be telling. I have sold unused/outdated carts on eBay, clearly identified as such and heavily caveated. Seller and buyer were happy, but this is the exception, and not the rule. Open box carts are a different can of worms. If it’s a multi-color integrated cart (e.g. hp), and the tape over the CMY nozzles was removed and re-applied, there’s a serious chance of cross-tank color contamination, as well as dried ink clogs. If you can’t determine from auc whether the carton is still "factory sealed", ask. Sellers who push junk carts are highly likely to exhibit other symtoms of being ProblemSellers: slow/no ship, FB hostaging, not responsible for item in shipment, non-responsive to emails, no phone number, no on-site pick-up, drop-shipping seller, etc. Most of the cart pusher listings I’ve reviewed are from sellers from whom I would buy no products of any kind, just based on their presentation & terms. Meanwhile, back at refills … Whether or not to use refilled carts is an on-going debate. Personally, I never have (so keep that in mind). The risks of refills seem to include: – nozzle life was exhausted before this last refill – leaking and consuming the useful life of the ink wick (if any) in your printer, or even more serious damage – unsatisfactory printing results: ugly font rendering, missing lines, inaccurate color matching, fast fading, etc. – short cartridge life, wiping out the original economic incentive to not go OEM Refills also come from various sources, including: – seller refills using home-brew ink – seller refills using aftermarket ink – 3rd-party name-brand aftermarket refills Your risks vary considerably with each. Unless you already have experience with specific refills, and know how to find unexpired identical product, don’t get your feet wet via eBay. The ink is hard to wash out. — http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Response:

I found expired unopened NIB OEM carts on eBay and the prices were tiny. Since these carts are sealed in foil packs, then in boxes, then sealed in plastic, I figure the printer will die before I run out of working carts for my old printer. Caveat Emptor. — GW

Response:

I complained to PayPal and they told me that because I waited to long it’s passed the 30 days I can file in (even though it was 2-4 weeks delivery) Just wanted to let you know that Ebay and Paypal doesn’t "cover" you like they claim they do.

Yes they do. For instance, PayPal covers you if you file a complaint within 30 days, JUST LIKE THEY SAY THEY DO. You waited too long to complain. It’s not PPs fault that you willingly bought an item with a delivery time of "2-4 weeks" and then waited until past the 30 day deadline before you filed a complaint. You let the protections they promise expire, and that’s not their fault it’s YOUR fault. Next time, either avoid auctions with a 2-4 week delivery time or file a complaint before the 30 days runs out. You can remove the complaint if your item arrives after you file. jc

Response:

I purchased 2 Ink Cartridges from a company called "EliteInkJets" owned by a man named Nadim Mourad. I purchased these items on the 15th of November. It is now the 7th of February and I still haven’t received the ink.

Did you look at their feedback before bidding?

Response:

I purchased 2 Ink Cartridges from a company called "EliteInkJets" …

Searching … "388 items found for EliteInkJets in Computers & Networking" They are obviously too busy selling to be bothered with fulfillment I purchased these items on the 15th of November.

And you waited until all your options expired just why? Just wanted to let you know that Ebay and Paypal doesn’t "cover" you like they claim they do.

Had you paid via credit-card funded PP, you could at least have done a chargeback. And had to come to a.m.o.e. before bidding, we could have pointed out some things like (taking a random EIJ auction): Title: "(3) HP #78 TriColor C6578 HP 78 Inkjet Cartridges"

Fraudulent. These are refills, as the description later notes. "Item location: Ebay"

Big red flag "Positive Feedback: 98.8%"

Needs to be higher. And did you look at the FB? The many negs (3 removed) are mostly for slow/no shipping. "After you won the auction"

no comment "you may also send payment direct to our Pay Pal email account at elitetradingcorporation -at – hotmail.com"

hotmail? excuse me? "Note: we are prohibited from accepting "walk-in" or "will call" orders."

right, sure And people wonder "PowerSeller" is not a term of endearment. — http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Response:

Hey all; I purchased 2 Ink Cartridges from a company called "EliteInkJets" owned by a man named Nadim Mourad. I purchased these items on the 15th of November. It is now the 7th of February and I still haven’t received the ink. I’ve been trying to email him several times to figure out when the ink was coming and still nothing.. I complained to PayPal and they told me that because I waited to long it’s passed the 30 days I can file in (even though it was 2-4 weeks delivery) Just wanted to let you know that Ebay and Paypal doesn’t "cover" you like they claim they do. And Eliteinkjets.com should not be trusted. Thanks, Jon

Response:

4 weeks delivery = 28 days. You could have waited him out and *still* had time to file your PayPal claim. Just wanted to let you know that Ebay and Paypal doesn’t "cover" you like they claim they do. And Eliteinkjets.com should not be trusted. Thanks, Jon

We’re sorry you didn’t read the instructions. But….you CAN file a credit card chargeback (if you paid via credit card). Kris

Response:

lost 4lb in 3 days

admin — Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I find our food budget is about the same most weeks and less others, DH gets many lower fat items at discount stores, Lee, not envying you cooking for 3 teenagers

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally agree with having to change what we were told as kids. I too had to have butter on bread, not any more. Also was ALWAYS told ‘clean your plate there is some starving child in Africa that would love to have what you have. ‘ It was hard to stop cleaning the plate, how I handled it was to put less and less on the plate till I could eat all that was on it and feel full, not stuffed. Also when I was a nurse, we had short lunch periods, or were constantly interrupted about something so it was eat as fast as you can so it is done before you get interrupted. I had to teach myself to eat slower. Frying was never a problem with me, I usually broiled my foods, but DH and his kids fried. They get upset cause I refuse to but they like the grilled foods well and not breading the meats was a change to them also. I had to learn to put fat INTO my diet, since I had cut out most. I just had to learn to use healthy fats, not the unhealthy ones. Another thing is finances, eatting good costs more than not. I recall many meals where me and my 2 boys had mac and cheese with 1/2 pound of hot dogs. It was filling, had protein and carbs and cost less than $1.00 to feed the 3 of us. When you are a single mom struggling to make ends meet it is not easy. I have found that since I started eating healthier wit more veggies and fruits and the healthier cuts of meat, that our food budget has gone up about 100/2 weeks. Now I am feeding 3 teenage boys and me and DH but it DOES cost more to eat healthier. You can’t get the 94% fat free popcorn in the dollar store like you can the butter flavored. Low fat is not available in the discount stores like regular is. I still give in once in a while and order a pizza, but it is cheese or mushroom and thin crust, and the dog gets most of the crust, and I eat a large salad before it. So I am learning and still experimenting with what works for me and my family, but it is not as easy as it would be if I was living in the country again, since everywhere you go is some fast food or another. But then I never really liked fast food so I am lucky there. Adele — 248/242/169 minigoal 238 2/13/04 Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter How about bread for a sandwich? You wouldn’t need butter then…. Have to have butter with bread, so its a no go for me I think that’s a preconception you’re going to have to tackle if you’re to keep weight off long-term. You can’t avoid bread for the rest of your life simply because you might want to eat butter with it! Indeed, I’ve trained myself off butter (& other full-fate spreads) completely. I *adore* it, but I understand & accept I can’t have it. Now I find I enjoy the taste & texture of bread much more. My weakness is too much fat in the diet and I have to watch this extremely carefully. The only thing is that the "wetter" sandwich fillings, if you are spread-free on a sandwich, it has to be eaten immediately or the bread goes soggy and that isn’t good. As you’re in UK you can get turkey bacon. Try a turkey bacon and tomato (or ketchup) sandwich sometime, without butter or marg, just as a taste experiment, and I’ll bet you’ll enjoy it. Turkey rashers can be delicious. I make a warm salad of mixed leaves, chopped tomato, cucumber & onion, mixed herbs, with turkey rasher slivers and a fat-free dressing of choice. Delicious! Having a freshly baked wholemeal roll with it is lovely. A lot of times, to lose weight and keep it off we have to challenge our prejudices – prejudices that often start in childhood when we are told that you always eat a certain food with another food, that not having certain foods is tantamount to depriving yourself etc. That is very true. I’ve stopped putting salt into food during cooking. I had a health reason – other half has high blood pressure – and once I got used to it I taste *food* and not *salt*. Now I find many processed foods too salty. I did the same with sugar in drinks – I’ve been sugar-free in tea & coffee for years and if I need a little sweetening, such as on my porridge of a morning, I use granulated sweetener – and I find only a tiny amount to be sufficient. Cheers, helen s For example, I was never taught to put butter on vegetables, so it never occurred to me to do so, and putting butter on veggies actually seems a bit weird to me. But other people were taught to do this as a matter of course, and the idea of having vegetables just plain seems alien and weird to them. We were both taught that butter belongs with bread, and that a sandwich without butter is like a car without wheels. What we have to realise is that that is just the way we’ve been raised, not a truth of nature! — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs

Response:

your pasta sounds nice, Lee

Response:

and it may be that this is a trigger issue and must be left alone, Lee, who can eat a stick of butter like a candybar, I don’t even need the bread,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter How about bread for a sandwich? You wouldn’t need butter then…. Have to have butter with bread, so its a no go for me I think that’s a preconception you’re going to have to tackle if you’re to keep weight off long-term. You can’t avoid bread for the rest of your life simply because you might want to eat butter with it! As you’re in UK you can get turkey bacon. Try a turkey bacon and tomato (or ketchup) sandwich sometime, without butter or marg, just as a taste experiment, and I’ll bet you’ll enjoy it. A lot of times, to lose weight and keep it off we have to challenge our prejudices – prejudices that often start in childhood when we are told that you always eat a certain food with another food, that not having certain foods is tantamount to depriving yourself etc. For example, I was never taught to put butter on vegetables, so it never occurred to me to do so, and putting butter on veggies actually seems a bit weird to me. But other people were taught to do this as a matter of course, and the idea of having vegetables just plain seems alien and weird to them. We were both taught that butter belongs with bread, and that a sandwich without butter is like a car without wheels. What we have to realise is that that is just the way we’ve been raised, not a truth of nature! — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs

Response:

Congratulations on your loss, Beck! Continued success… one meal at a time…. cynlyn

Response:

I totally agree with having to change what we were told as kids. I too had to have butter on bread, not any more. Also was ALWAYS told ‘clean your plate there is some starving child in Africa that would love to have what you have. ‘ It was hard to stop cleaning the plate, how I handled it was to put less and less on the plate till I could eat all that was on it and feel full, not stuffed. Also when I was a nurse, we had short lunch periods, or were constantly interrupted about something so it was eat as fast as you can so it is done before you get interrupted. I had to teach myself to eat slower. Frying was never a problem with me, I usually broiled my foods, but DH and his kids fried. They get upset cause I refuse to but they like the grilled foods well and not breading the meats was a change to them also. I had to learn to put fat INTO my diet, since I had cut out most. I just had to learn to use healthy fats, not the unhealthy ones. Another thing is finances, eatting good costs more than not. I recall many meals where me and my 2 boys had mac and cheese with 1/2 pound of hot dogs. It was filling, had protein and carbs and cost less than $1.00 to feed the 3 of us. When you are a single mom struggling to make ends meet it is not easy. I have found that since I started eating healthier wit more veggies and fruits and the healthier cuts of meat, that our food budget has gone up about 100/2 weeks. Now I am feeding 3 teenage boys and me and DH but it DOES cost more to eat healthier. You can’t get the 94% fat free popcorn in the dollar store like you can the butter flavored. Low fat is not available in the discount stores like regular is. I still give in once in a while and order a pizza, but it is cheese or mushroom and thin crust, and the dog gets most of the crust, and I eat a large salad before it. So I am learning and still experimenting with what works for me and my family, but it is not as easy as it would be if I was living in the country again, since everywhere you go is some fast food or another. But then I never really liked fast food so I am lucky there. Adele — 248/242/169 minigoal 238 2/13/04 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter How about bread for a sandwich? You wouldn’t need butter then…. Have to have butter with bread, so its a no go for me I think that’s a preconception you’re going to have to tackle if you’re to keep weight off long-term. You can’t avoid bread for the rest of your life simply because you might want to eat butter with it! Indeed, I’ve trained myself off butter (& other full-fate spreads) completely. I *adore* it, but I understand & accept I can’t have it. Now I find I enjoy the taste & texture of bread much more. My weakness is too much fat in the diet and I have to watch this extremely carefully. The only thing is that the "wetter" sandwich fillings, if you are spread-free on a sandwich, it has to be eaten immediately or the bread goes soggy and that isn’t good. As you’re in UK you can get turkey bacon. Try a turkey bacon and tomato (or ketchup) sandwich sometime, without butter or marg, just as a taste experiment, and I’ll bet you’ll enjoy it. Turkey rashers can be delicious. I make a warm salad of mixed leaves, chopped tomato, cucumber & onion, mixed herbs, with turkey rasher slivers and a fat-free dressing of choice. Delicious! Having a freshly baked wholemeal roll with it is lovely. A lot of times, to lose weight and keep it off we have to challenge our prejudices – prejudices that often start in childhood when we are told that you always eat a certain food with another food, that not having certain foods is tantamount to depriving yourself etc. That is very true. I’ve stopped putting salt into food during cooking. I had a health reason – other half has high blood pressure – and once I got used to it I taste *food* and not *salt*. Now I find many processed foods too salty. I did the same with sugar in drinks – I’ve been sugar-free in tea & coffee for years and if I need a little sweetening, such as on my porridge of a morning, I use granulated sweetener – and I find only a tiny amount to be sufficient. Cheers, helen s For example, I was never taught to put butter on vegetables, so it never occurred to me to do so, and putting butter on veggies actually seems a bit weird to me. But other people were taught to do this as a matter of course, and the idea of having vegetables just plain seems alien and weird to them. We were both taught that butter belongs with bread, and that a sandwich without butter is like a car without wheels. What we have to realise is that that is just the way we’ve been raised, not a truth of nature! — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs

Response:

Hi Audrey, Another thing is finances, eatting good costs more than not. I recall many meals where me and my 2 boys had mac and cheese with 1/2 pound of hot dogs. It was filling, had protein and carbs and cost less than $1.00 to feed the 3 of us. When you are a single mom struggling to make ends meet it is not easy. I have found that since I started eating healthier wit more veggies and fruits and the healthier cuts of meat, that our food budget has gone up about 100/2 weeks.

OTOH, think of the savings in medical bills you’re making – not to mention the research that says a good diet makes kids smarter. Smart kids = better jobs when they’re grown up. Just make sure they don’t forget their mother! Now I am feeding 3 teenage boys and me and DH but it DOES cost more to eat healthier. You can’t get the 94% fat free popcorn in the dollar store like you can the butter flavored. Low fat is not available in the discount stores like regular is.

I know exactly what you mean, but at least in UK I have noticed that low fat is becoming more mainstream. Also, you can get veg and fruit cheap in UK – through markets etc. It just means you have to be organised. However, the most expensive things in the shopping cart are meat, fish, snack foods and confectionary. I wonder if the real problem is that we’ve grown to expect those things as staples rather than luxuries? When I was growing up, we were very poor and cookies and snack foods were genuine luxuries – forget dollar store popcorn, I didn’t have *any* popcorn until I was 12! (Crisps aka chips were the British snack of choice, and I only had them at birthdays and Christmas). I remember when jelly (aka Jello) was a real treat! Meat was a few ounces, stretched to go four ways, and usually the sort of meat we’d get would be liver or other offal, or neck of lamb or ox tail. Fish was a rare treat, and usually as a result of my mum chatting up the fishermen at the harbour (they’d sell us "bait" fish, which mum would then cook for our tea). If most of the calories kids ate were staples (veg, potatoes, bread) they’d be perfectly well fed and a *lot* healthier and we parents would be a lot better off. It’s just that we’ve raised them to believe that they "need" chips, soda, chocolate and cookies: sugar, fat and tons of salt in everything (I’m as guilty in this as anyone). If you *had* to exist on a dollar a day, as millions of people do in the world, you could do it. It’s just that a rich diet has become the norm for us. So I am learning and still experimenting with what works for me and my family, but it is not as easy as it would be if I was living in the country again, since everywhere you go is some fast food or another. But then I never really liked fast food so I am lucky there.

I saw a shocking documentary here in UK. The reporter stood on what was described as a typical residential street, in a typical US town. There were fast food joints as far as the eye could see, literally. He said "Supposing I wanted to buy a pound of apples. Just ordinary apples. Where would I buy them here? Where would I buy *any* healthy food?" The nearest supermarket, a Walmart, was a 35 minute drive away. Here in UK, unless you’re in a very rural area, you’d be unlikely to be more than 10 minutes from a supermarket selling a huge range of healthy, basic foods; but fast food restaurants are relative few and far between (in fact, for many of us, the nearest restaurant is *in* the supermarket! ). My nearest fast food restaurant, a McDonald’s Drive-Thru is about 20 minutes drive away. My nearest supermarket is a 5 minute walk from my house and my nearest weekly, open market is less than 10 minutes away. So it’s a no-brainer if I’m hungry – much quicker to go to the supermarket and I don’t need to get the car out. It made a big impression on me, but not as big as some of the people walking by! I was very sympathetic towards them – it’s like expecting an alcoholic to live in a brewery! Anyway, despite gross temptation, it sounds like you’re doing great, for yourself and your family. — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs

Response:

Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter How about bread for a sandwich? You wouldn’t need butter then…. Have to have butter with bread, so its a no go for me

I think that’s a preconception you’re going to have to tackle if you’re to keep weight off long-term. You can’t avoid bread for the rest of your life simply because you might want to eat butter with it! As you’re in UK you can get turkey bacon. Try a turkey bacon and tomato (or ketchup) sandwich sometime, without butter or marg, just as a taste experiment, and I’ll bet you’ll enjoy it. A lot of times, to lose weight and keep it off we have to challenge our prejudices – prejudices that often start in childhood when we are told that you always eat a certain food with another food, that not having certain foods is tantamount to depriving yourself etc. For example, I was never taught to put butter on vegetables, so it never occurred to me to do so, and putting butter on veggies actually seems a bit weird to me. But other people were taught to do this as a matter of course, and the idea of having vegetables just plain seems alien and weird to them. We were both taught that butter belongs with bread, and that a sandwich without butter is like a car without wheels. What we have to realise is that that is just the way we’ve been raised, not a truth of nature! — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs

Response:

This reminds me of a story my WW leader told at a meeting about something that was passed down inher family over the years. Whenever she made ham, she cut off the ends and put it in the pan to bake, this is the way her mom had always done it. She asked her mom one day why it was done that way, she said she did not know and that would have to ask grandma, as that was the way grandma had taught her. So they proceeded to call grandma to find out why you cut the ends off the ham before baking it. Grandma replied "so it would fit in the pan." So you see we are a creature of the ways we are brought up and do things as they have always been done, even though there might be no other reason other than to make it fit in the pan. Debbie

Response:

Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter

Ahh,

Response:

I’ve trained myself off butter on bread and I was raised thinking sandwiches HAD to have butter or they weren’t proper sandwiches! And vegetables had to have butter as well. I now eat vegetables without butter, but at special occassions I may put a bit of it them. For a treat now I may have a slice of toast with butter and fresh blackberry jam, but I don’t do that often and when I do it, it’s in moderation. You have to learn to eat differently and it has to be a life-time change. If you aren’t willing to change your eating habits, you will not succeed at losing weight. We’ve all made changes to the way we eat and it does work! Good luck to you. — Brenda 209/195/155

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Beck OKay it may seem too much but I think I am just losing mostly water (remember I put on 7lb in one week, probably water). But its better than nowt. Way better than nowt! My biggest downfall in life is butter. I love it. But I cannot cut down to a thin amount, its all or nothing, so I have not had any butter in 3 days. Lakeland Ltd do a product called "Butter Buds" which is like sweetener is to sugar – 3 sachets are 1/2 point – and it gives you that buttery taste on things like potatoes etc., which I’d been missing. I have replaced it with dairylea light. Laughing Cow Light triangles are bigger…and still only 1/2 point each…..and very creamy I have also stopped having bread, have replaced it with ryvitas. Dry and a bit like cardboard, but nice with a little bit of dairylea light. I like the Ryvita Breaks one (I think that’s what they’re called) with sultanas in – they’re a bit more pointy, but with a little soft cheese on top, and a bit of honey – they’re fab Am drinking more squash (sugar free) and am now having breakfast – 2 wheetbix with skimmed milk. I never ate breakfast pre WW – now I can’t go without it. Tonight I am going to have 100g (uncooked weight) pasta (110 cals), mixed with chopped chicken breast(grilled, no skin about 150 cals for the portion), teaspoon of pesto sauce (about 50 cals) and fromage frais for the sauce (about 50 cals), mushrooms, celery, yellow pepper, onion and any spices I can find. Total dinner calories around about 500. Good enough to eat Sounds yummy Good luck for this week.

Thanks. With the laughing cow ones, we don’t have the triangles, we have the pack, much better value for money. Dinner was lovely, although I had the temperature too high accidentally, so the fromage frais split and curdled. Still nice though.

Response:

Indeed, I’ve trained myself off butter (& other full-fate spreads) completely. I *adore* it, but I understand & accept I can’t have it. Now I find I enjoy the taste & texture of bread much more. My weakness is too much fat in the diet and I have to watch this extremely carefully. The only thing is that the "wetter" sandwich fillings, if you are spread-free on a sandwich, it has to be eaten immediately or the bread goes soggy and that isn’t good. As you’re in UK you can get turkey bacon. Try a turkey bacon and tomato (or ketchup) sandwich sometime, without butter or marg, just as a taste experiment, and I’ll bet you’ll enjoy it.

Turkey rashers can be delicious. I make a warm salad of mixed leaves, chopped tomato, cucumber & onion, mixed herbs, with turkey rasher slivers and a fat-free dressing of choice. Delicious! Having a freshly baked wholemeal roll with it is lovely. A lot of times, to lose weight and keep it off we have to challenge our prejudices – prejudices that often start in childhood when we are told that you always eat a certain food with another food, that not having certain foods is tantamount to depriving yourself etc.

That is very true. I’ve stopped putting salt into food during cooking. I had a health reason – other half has high blood pressure – and once I got used to it I taste *food* and not *salt*. Now I find many processed foods too salty. I did the same with sugar in drinks – I’ve been sugar-free in tea & coffee for years and if I need a little sweetening, such as on my porridge of a morning, I use granulated sweetener – and I find only a tiny amount to be sufficient. Cheers, helen s – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For example, I was never taught to put butter on vegetables, so it never occurred to me to do so, and putting butter on veggies actually seems a bit weird to me. But other people were taught to do this as a matter of course, and the idea of having vegetables just plain seems alien and weird to them. We were both taught that butter belongs with bread, and that a sandwich without butter is like a car without wheels. What we have to realise is that that is just the way we’ve been raised, not a truth of nature! — Anna (in UK) Start Weight: 174 lbs Goal Weight: 146 lbs Current Weight: 165.5 lbs

Response:

Wonderful, Beck. Congratulations. Elaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OKay it may seem too much but I think I am just losing mostly water (remember I put on 7lb in one week, probably water). But its better than nowt. My biggest downfall in life is butter. I love it. But I cannot cut down to a thin amount, its all or nothing, so I have not had any butter in 3 days. I have replaced it with dairylea light. I have also stopped having bread, have replaced it with ryvitas. Dry and a bit like cardboard, but nice with a little bit of dairylea light. Am drinking more squash (sugar free) and am now having breakfast – 2 wheetbix with skimmed milk. Tonight I am going to have 100g (uncooked weight) pasta (110 cals), mixed with chopped chicken breast(grilled, no skin about 150 cals for the portion), teaspoon of pesto sauce (about 50 cals) and fromage frais for the sauce (about 50 cals), mushrooms, celery, yellow pepper, onion and any spices I can find. Total dinner calories around about 500. Good enough to eat

Response:

I’m the same with butter and have had to cut it out completely. I must say that the WW bread is nice, far nicer than ryvita. Dinner sounds lovely hope you enjoy it!

Response:

Great job, Beck. And your dinner sounds great, hope you enjoyed it. Nathalie

Response:

OKay it may seem too much but I think I am just losing mostly water (remember I put on 7lb in one week, probably water). But its better than nowt. My biggest downfall in life is butter. I love it. But I cannot cut down to a thin amount, its all or nothing, so I have not had any butter in 3 days. I have replaced it with dairylea light. I have also stopped having bread, have replaced it with ryvitas. Dry and a bit like cardboard, but nice with a little bit of dairylea light. Am drinking more squash (sugar free) and am now having breakfast – 2 wheetbix with skimmed milk. Tonight I am going to have 100g (uncooked weight) pasta (110 cals), mixed with chopped chicken breast(grilled, no skin about 150 cals for the portion), teaspoon of pesto sauce (about 50 cals) and fromage frais for the sauce (about 50 cals), mushrooms, celery, yellow pepper, onion and any spices I can find. Total dinner calories around about 500. Good enough to eat

Response:

Good job making small but significant changes each week. Just make sure that they are ones that you can live with for the rest of your life. Otherwise this won’t be a lasting thing.

Response:

Hi Beck

OKay it may seem too much but I think I am just losing mostly water (remember I put on 7lb in one week, probably water). But its better than nowt.

Way better than nowt! My biggest downfall in life is butter. I love it. But I cannot cut down to a thin amount, its all or nothing, so I have not had any butter in 3 days.

Lakeland Ltd do a product called "Butter Buds" which is like sweetener is to sugar – 3 sachets are 1/2 point – and it gives you that buttery taste on things like potatoes etc., which I’d been missing. I have replaced it with dairylea light.

Laughing Cow Light triangles are bigger…and still only 1/2 point each…..and very creamy I have also stopped having bread, have replaced it with ryvitas. Dry and a bit like cardboard, but nice with a little bit of dairylea light.

I like the Ryvita Breaks one (I think that’s what they’re called) with sultanas in – they’re a bit more pointy, but with a little soft cheese on top, and a bit of honey – they’re fab Am drinking more squash (sugar free) and am now having breakfast – 2 wheetbix with skimmed milk.

I never ate breakfast pre WW – now I can’t go without it. Tonight I am going to have 100g (uncooked weight) pasta (110 cals), mixed with chopped chicken breast(grilled, no skin about 150 cals for the portion), teaspoon of pesto sauce (about 50 cals) and fromage frais for the sauce (about 50 cals), mushrooms, celery, yellow pepper, onion and any spices I can find. Total dinner calories around about 500. Good enough to eat

Sounds yummy Good luck for this week. — krys UK 157/???/126 Started March 1st 2001 GOAL August 16th 2001 and July 22nd 2004 …getting more motivated…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OKay it may seem too much but I think I am just losing mostly water (remember I put on 7lb in one week, probably water). But its better than nowt. My biggest downfall in life is butter. I love it. But I cannot cut down to a thin amount, its all or nothing, so I have not had any butter in 3 days. I have replaced it with dairylea light. I have also stopped having bread, have replaced it with ryvitas. Dry and a bit like cardboard, but nice with a little bit of dairylea light. Am drinking more squash (sugar free) and am now having breakfast – 2 wheetbix with skimmed milk. Tonight I am going to have 100g (uncooked weight) pasta (110 cals), mixed with chopped chicken breast(grilled, no skin about 150 cals for the portion), teaspoon of pesto sauce (about 50 cals) and fromage frais for the sauce (about 50 cals), mushrooms, celery, yellow pepper, onion and any spices I can find. Total dinner calories around about 500. Good enough to eat I’m the same with butter and have had to cut it out completely. I must say that the WW bread is nice, far nicer than ryvita. Dinner sounds lovely hope you enjoy it! Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter

How about bread for a sandwich? You wouldn’t need butter then….

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Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter How about bread for a sandwich? You wouldn’t need butter then….

Have to have butter with bread, so its a no go for me

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Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter How about bread for a sandwich? You wouldn’t need butter then…. Have to have butter with bread, so its a no go for me

This may be one of those things that gets modified over time. Good luck.

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Can’t have bread. If I have bread I would want butter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OKay it may seem too much but I think I am just losing mostly water (remember I put on 7lb in one week, probably water). But its better than nowt. My biggest downfall in life is butter. I love it. But I cannot cut down to a thin amount, its all or nothing, so I have not had any butter in 3 days. I have replaced it with dairylea light. I have also stopped having bread, have replaced it with ryvitas. Dry and a bit like cardboard, but nice with a little bit of dairylea light. Am drinking more squash (sugar free) and am now having breakfast – 2 wheetbix with skimmed milk. Tonight I am going to have 100g (uncooked weight) pasta (110 cals), mixed with chopped chicken breast(grilled, no skin about 150 cals for the portion), teaspoon of pesto sauce (about 50 cals) and fromage frais for the sauce (about 50 cals), mushrooms, celery, yellow pepper, onion and any spices I can find. Total dinner calories around about 500. Good enough to eat Good job making small but significant changes each week. Just make sure that they are ones that you can live with for the rest of your life. Otherwise this won’t be a lasting thing. NO more butter forever? :-) To be honest, I think I can live with it. I love the stuff, but I am not missing it. Its not like I have cravings or its an addiction or anything. Thing is I also love Dairylea light cheese spread, so I can happily have that forever.

Since butter is not good for you anyway replacing it with something that is lower in calories and the RIGHT type of fat is really the right thing to do. Being successful on any weight loss plan means making healthy choices for the rest of your life. If you look at this as a diet, ie short term project, then you will never keep it off. Just because you get to your goal weight does not mean that you go back to your old eating habits. And there is nothing wrong with bread. Just buy the heathiest kind you can find. Whole wheat is better than white for example. Light is better than the full calorie brands. Diet soda vs ful sugar soda. Substitutions like these go a long way to making this a way of life and not a diet.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OKay it may seem too much but I think I am just losing mostly water (remember I put on 7lb in one week, probably water). But its better than nowt. My biggest downfall in life is butter. I love it. But I cannot cut down to a thin amount, its all or nothing, so I have not had any butter in 3 days. I have replaced it with dairylea light. I have also stopped having bread, have replaced it with ryvitas. Dry and a bit like cardboard, but nice with a little bit of dairylea light. Am drinking more squash (sugar free) and am now having breakfast – 2 wheetbix with skimmed milk. Tonight I am going to have 100g (uncooked weight) pasta (110 cals), mixed with chopped chicken breast(grilled, no skin about 150 cals for the portion), teaspoon of pesto sauce (about 50 cals) and fromage frais for the sauce (about 50 cals), mushrooms, celery, yellow pepper, onion and any spices I can find. Total dinner calories around about 500. Good enough to eat Good job making small but significant changes each week. Just make sure that they are ones that you can live with for the rest of your life. Otherwise this won’t be a lasting thing.

NO more butter forever? :-) To be honest, I think I can live with it. I love the stuff, but I am not missing it. Its not like I have cravings or its an addiction or anything. Thing is I also love Dairylea light cheese spread, so I can happily have that forever.