Brewing Master

Question:

I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? — Hand me a beer, Peter

Response:

There are lots of opinions, pro and con, on these;  A lot of websites with info as well. Basically, they are variations of the same method of mashing.  The only difference is in the heat source.  Recirculating Infusion Mash Systems (RIMS) typically are a closed loop between the mash tun, a pump, and an electric heating element.  The heater is used to maintain the mash temperature, and occasionally to raise it from step to step on a multi-step mash.  This requires a fair amount of power, however, which makes it hard to do without burning the wort on the heating element. Enter Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash system (HERMS, which is actually trademarked, I believe).  This system uses a heat exchanger to apply heat to the wort, ususally from a coil in the Hot Liquor Tank (HLT).  Other systems use a separate vessel that is electrically heated, with a much smaller volume.  The idea is to decrease the watt density, to prevent burning of the wort.  The heat exchanger has a much larger surface area than the electric heating element, and so can heat the wort using a much lower temperature. There are many on this group that think either one is a complete waste of time, and others swear by it.  I will say this, however.  If it’s your intent to automate the mashing process so that it can proceed from dough-in to mash-out unattended, your system will likely have some resemblance to RIMS or HERMS. I was playing around today with a variation on the above theme, nicknamed DiFRIMS or DiFRMS that reciculates the mash tun like a RIMS or HERMS, but heats the bottom of the kettle to raise/maintain temperature.  All the recirculation does is keep the mash isothermal.  And, the Infusion part of the name in RIMS is really a misnomer.  It’s not really an infusion mash, though for all practical purposes, it works like one. Regards, Mike Sharp Regards, Mike Sharp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? — Hand me a beer, Peter

Response:

Mike, heats the bottom of the kettle to raise/maintain temperature.  All the

Actually this is the method I’m using: my kettle has an electric heating element underneath the bottom. The wort flows through the filterplate, ‘touches’ the heated bottom and then flows out the kettle via a valve. No scorching. Please have a look: http://www.barleys.nl/index.htm?brewzilla Grtz, JW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are lots of opinions, pro and con, on these;  A lot of websites with info as well. Basically, they are variations of the same method of mashing.  The only difference is in the heat source.  Recirculating Infusion Mash Systems (RIMS) typically are a closed loop between the mash tun, a pump, and an electric heating element.  The heater is used to maintain the mash temperature, and occasionally to raise it from step to step on a multi-step mash.  This requires a fair amount of power, however, which makes it hard to do without burning the wort on the heating element. Enter Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash system (HERMS, which is actually trademarked, I believe).  This system uses a heat exchanger to apply heat to the wort, ususally from a coil in the Hot Liquor Tank (HLT).  Other systems use a separate vessel that is electrically heated, with a much smaller volume.  The idea is to decrease the watt density, to prevent burning of the wort.  The heat exchanger has a much larger surface area than the electric heating element, and so can heat the wort using a much lower temperature. There are many on this group that think either one is a complete waste of time, and others swear by it.  I will say this, however.  If it’s your intent to automate the mashing process so that it can proceed from dough-in to mash-out unattended, your system will likely have some resemblance to RIMS or HERMS. I was playing around today with a variation on the above theme, nicknamed DiFRIMS or DiFRMS that reciculates the mash tun like a RIMS or HERMS, but heats the bottom of the kettle to raise/maintain temperature.  All the recirculation does is keep the mash isothermal.  And, the Infusion part of the name in RIMS is really a misnomer.  It’s not really an infusion mash, though for all practical purposes, it works like one. Regards, Mike Sharp Regards, Mike Sharp I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? — Hand me a beer, Peter

Response:

Check out this website http://www.brew-beer.com/breweries.htm.  It has a lot of good examples of many different types of home breweries.  I a lot of these as references in building my own system. Cheers! — Dylan McGehee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? — Hand me a beer, Peter

Response:

Please have a look: http://www.barleys.nl/index.htm?brewzilla Grtz, JW

JW has big list of breweries on his site below.  You can get a very good idea of what others have designed and built. Check here: http://www.barleys.nl/index.htm?thuisbrouwerijen A review of these home breweries should answer most of your questions. Have Fun! Wayne Botanist Brewer Big Fun Brewing RIMS Site http://home.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm Note: Spamguard used in email address…..

Response:

I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics?

It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on.  Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. John. —                            *** John P. Kolesar ***                          *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

"John ‘Shaggy’ Kolesar" What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on.  Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor.

Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff. The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff. js HOME: Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Sausage, Videos http://schmidling.netfirms.com

Response:

Completely unnecessary: yes. Just there for wow factor: no. Fun to build: absolutely! My HERMS and all the other stuff I have is generated around making my brew day sort and easy (like 6 hours isn’t short enough). That way i can do clean up while I brew. Burp, -Dan — Replace "nospam" with msn to send me email. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on.  Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. John. —                            *** John P. Kolesar ***                          *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

"John ‘Shaggy’ Kolesar" What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on.  Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff. The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff.

RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems. I like to think the Herms/Rims systems as "dedicated" brewing equipment.  It’s the same as purchasing a converted keg.  It solves a particular brewing problem you may have–ie. larger capacity boils. Is buying a converted keg unnecessary?  I could just use the stove and a pot to brew beer. Maybe the problems designers of RIMS/HEARMS get into results from plumbing every valve and pump opening to a neat "turn key" solution. I agree there’s excesses in the above examples but please don’t go too far saying they’re solutions to problems that don’t exist. Largo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "John ‘Shaggy’ Kolesar" What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on.  Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff. The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff. RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems. I like to think the Herms/Rims systems as "dedicated" brewing equipment.  It’s the same as purchasing a converted keg.  It solves a particular brewing problem you may have–ie. larger capacity boils. Is buying a converted keg unnecessary?  I could just use the stove and a pot to brew beer. Maybe the problems designers of RIMS/HEARMS get into results from plumbing every valve and pump opening to a neat "turn key" solution. I agree there’s excesses in the above examples but please don’t go too far saying they’re solutions to problems that don’t exist. Largo

BTW my brewing machine, "Mr. Masher" based on a heat exchange method is viewable at the following link: "http://www.sdc.org/~markt/".  Soon I’ll have an update on the page illustrating my successes and improvements made to it. Good luck. Largo

Response:

I say to each his own. But IMHO an optimum grain crush is obtained by backing repeatedly over the grain with a  Bridgestone Potenza RE940 on a concrete driveway, who needs a stinkin grain mill.

Really?  What size RIMS?    HAHAHAHA!  Sorry, couldn’t resist. Regards, Mike "Rodney Dangerfield" Sharp

Response:

Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff.

I can’t believe I’m hearing this from the guy who builds the self proclaimed best damn gadget to mill grain. I myself like to make great beer AND great beer "making stuff". The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive but does increase the enjoyment of the hobby for gearheads such as myself… So there!! ;-P The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff.

Necessary to make great beer? NO!  But to step mash and mash out, and adjust mash temps, hell yes, a lot easier than adding hot water or direct heating a kettle. Does one need to do these things? Well, we can argue till hell freezes over that point. But it sure fells good being able to do it if I want to! So there again!! I say to each his own. But IMHO an optimum grain crush is obtained by backing repeatedly over the grain with a  Bridgestone Potenza RE940 on a concrete driveway, who needs a stinkin grain mill. — Bill Alvin, TX Homebrewing site http://home.swbell.net/bufkin

Response:

RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems.

What brewing problem does your RIMS/HERMS solve that you can’t just as easily solve without using it? John. —                            *** John P. Kolesar ***                          *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems. What brewing problem does your RIMS/HERMS solve that you can’t just as easily solve without using it? John.

John, I know what you’re getting at.  First off, there’s a work-around for everything in brewing.  Before there was electricity, there was beer.  Whenever there’s a desire to increase capacity, automation comes to mind–and that solves a problem for some people.  Automation doesn’t have to use neither new machines nor computerized controllers by definition.  You might use a paper checklist or PDA brewing software.  These tools help in brewing and if that solves a problem, great.  That’s all I’m trying to suggest. In my case, Mr. Masher starts by heating water accurately for the mash.  There are no pots and pans to move on and off the stove.  Next the pump moves the hot water to the tun for starch conversion.  I may re-circulate the wort or add heat for a particular mash step. It’s electrical heating design solves the problem of using gas indoors.  In my observation, if you go beyond heating water or mashing, the brewing process starts to revolve around the RIMS/HERMS (gadgets) design, which makes more problems than it is worth. Largo

Response: