Brewing Master » Brewing Equipment

Safe Hydropulse Storage

admin — Sat, 21 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

All, Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted bleach through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I wasn’t too worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting between usage. But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some nasty bug making a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on the next use. So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping others could comment and advise. Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the machine to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap water and a splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute pause in the middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the microwave. After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine then I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about 1/2 way and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I wipe everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel and put it in the cupboard. So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way? One final questions; when I was irrigating daily I was using up the 2.5 gal. container of distilled water pretty quickly. But now that I am not using it every day the distilled water is sitting around. So I was wonder if there is a chance that my distilled water is harboring any bacteria? To make it flow during use I have to punch a small hole in the top so air can get in and water can get out. Is this a risk? (Can you tell I am paranoid of getting another sinus infection Regards, David

Response:

In news:ec6dnTOM9Zh3NxLfRVn-jw@inreach.com, DMF typed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All, > Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different > antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to > use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it > was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use > the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to > open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate > when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how > should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard > for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus > infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted > bleach through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I > wasn’t too worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting > between usage. But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some > nasty bug making a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on > the next use. So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping > others could comment and advise. > Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the > machine to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap > water and a splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute > pause in the middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. > Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the > microwave. > After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine > then I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about > 1/2 way and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I > wipe everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of > any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at > the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel > and put it in the cupboard. > So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way? > One final questions; when I was irrigating daily I was using up the > 2.5 gal. container of distilled water pretty quickly. But now that I > am not using it every day the distilled water is sitting around. So I > was wonder if there is a chance that my distilled water is harboring > any bacteria? To make it flow during use I have to punch a small > hole in the top so air can get in and water can get out. Is this a > risk? (Can you tell I am paranoid of getting another sinus infection > > Regards, > David

You’ll be the first to wear out an irrigator with over-cleaning!! I run about 1/2 a tank of tap water through mine after irrigation and all seems well. …Allen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DMF wrote: > All, > Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different > antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to > use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it > was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use > the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to > open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate > when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how > should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard > for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus > infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted bleach > through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I wasn’t too > worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting between usage. > But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some nasty bug making > a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on the next use. > So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping others could > comment and advise. > Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the machine > to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap water and a > splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute pause in the > middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. > Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the > microwave. > After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine then > I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about 1/2 way > and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I wipe > everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of > any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at > the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel > and put it in the cupboard. > So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way?

If I ever stop irrigating with my HydroPulse for more than a couple of weeks (as I did after sinus surgery when I found it to be a bit too rough for my nosebleeds), I just throw it out and buy a brand new one. $80 is a small price to pay to avoid a nasty sinus infection. Bugs that multiply in stagnant water inside uncleaned irrigators include Pseudomonas. Believe me, you do NOT want to get a Pseudomonas infection. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Allen L. wrote > You’ll be the first to wear out an irrigator with over-cleaning!!

The cleaning procedure is only 6 tanks worth of wear every 1-2 months or more — when I had the sinus infection I was using it 2-4 times per DAY plus flush before and after each use and a flush with bleach on the weekend. In fact, I wore out my first HP in about 6 months. The company graciously provided me with a new one, since it was still under warranty. > I run about 1/2 a tank of tap water through mine after irrigation > and all seems well.

I don’t mean to be snide, but this is like saying you’ve been playing Russian Roulette for years and never had a problem It doesn’t actually compare to Russian Roulette because I don’t know what my risk is regarding bacteria growth in a stored Hydro Pulse. I was hoping to get a better understanding about the storage risk. If some one convinces me that its a fairly high risk then I will probably stop using it and resort to those sealed sterile saline spray bottles to clean out nose dust after servicing the inside of a PC. Regards, David

Response:

Steven L. wrote… > If I ever stop irrigating with my HydroPulse for more than a couple of > weeks (as I did after sinus surgery when I found it to be a bit too rough > for my nosebleeds), I just throw it out and buy a brand new one. $80 is > a small price to pay to avoid a nasty sinus infection.

For your situation, I agree. However, buying a new HP is not a practical solution since I would need a new one every 1-2 months. I was hoping I could find out what the risks are and/or what the best way is to clean it for storage. If storage is inherently risky then I will probably resort to using those sealed, sterilized bottles of saline for cleaning my nose after I service a PC. I’ll miss using my HP though. > Bugs that multiply in stagnant water inside uncleaned irrigators include > Pseudomonas. Believe me, you do NOT want to get a Pseudomonas > infection.

I dread getting ANY sinus infections, worst-of-class or not. Last year was a nightmare and I didn’t have it nearly as bad as many on this newsgroup. My heart goes out to sinus sufferers — I’m fortunate that mine did not morph into a chronic condition. Regards, David

Response:

On 5/21/05 2:41 PM, in article ec6dnTOM9Zh3NxLfRVn…@inreach.com, "DMF" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > All, > Last year I had a bad sinus infection that took 9 months, 4 different > antibiotics and 3 doctors to clear. During that process I started to > use the Grossan HydroPulse irrigator (thanks doc!) since I found it > was the only thing that kept my sinus headaches away. I now use > the HP maybe once per month, if that (I service PCs and have to > open up older PCs on occasion that are filled with dust so I irrigate > when I get home as a precaution). So my question is about how > should I clean and sterilize my HP if its going to sit in my cupboard > for a month or two? Previously, when I was wrestling with the sinus > infection I was irrigation 2-4 times per day and running diluted bleach > through it once per week. Since I was using it so often I wasn’t too > worried about bacterial growth while it was sitting between usage. > But now that it sits for weeks I am leery of some nasty bug making > a home inside and then being deposited in my nose on the next use. > So here’s the steps I’ve been using and was hoping others could > comment and advise. > Before Use: I run a full tank of very hot tap water through the machine > to clear it out. Then I run another 3/4ths tank with hot tap water and a > splash of bleach and run that through with a ten minute pause in the > middle. Then I flush with a full tank of distilled water. > Use: I use distilled water with Breathease powder, heated in the > microwave. > After Use: I run a full tank of hot tap water through the machine then > I run a tank of distilled water and run it down until its about 1/2 way > and I splash in some Hyrdrogen Peroxide and let it finish. I wipe > everying down and use a can of "Dust Off" to blow water out of > any difficult to reach areas such as the tip, wand, and the valve at > the bottom of the tank and on the machine. I cover it with a towel > and put it in the cupboard. > So is that adequate? Overkill? Is there a better way? > One final questions; when I was irrigating daily I was using up the > 2.5 gal. container of distilled water pretty quickly. But now that I > am not using it every day the distilled water is sitting around. So I > was wonder if there is a chance that my distilled water is harboring > any bacteria? To make it flow during use I have to punch a small > hole in the top so air can get in and water can get out. Is this a > risk? (Can you tell I am paranoid of getting another sinus infection > Regards, > David

If it is sitting there for a month, should be covered. Then run 200 cc of 3% hydrogen peroxide through the machine – tip in the basin so it recirculates. Then let it stand for several hours or overnight. Then rinse with clean water.

Response:

DMF wrote: > Steven L. wrote… >>If I ever stop irrigating with my HydroPulse for more than a couple of >>weeks (as I did after sinus surgery when I found it to be a bit too rough >>for my nosebleeds), I just throw it out and buy a brand new one. $80 is >>a small price to pay to avoid a nasty sinus infection. > For your situation, I agree. However, buying a new HP is not a practical > solution since I would need a new one every 1-2 months. I was hoping I > could find out what the risks are and/or what the best way is to clean it > for storage.

Why store it away for long periods? Just take it out every week and run the Clorox bleach solution thru it just as if you were irrigating with it. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Steven L wrote… > Why store it away for long periods? Just take it out every week > and run the Clorox bleach solution thru it just as if you were > irrigating with it.

That’s one possible solution… but I have decided I will only use the Hydro Pulse if I get a cold or if my allergies act up. I will just use the saline sprays to clear out nose dust from when I service PCs. (See my reply to Dr. Grossan’s post). Regards, David

Response:

Murray Grossan wrote… > If it is sitting there for a month, should be covered. Then run > 200cc of 3% hydrogen peroxide through the machine – tip in > the basin so it recirculates. Then let it stand for several hours > or overnight. Then rinse with clean water.

Based on Dr. Grossan’s reply and a little research on the web regarding the difficulty in sterilizing and disinfecting various items (medical equipment, beer brewing equipment, canning and jarring supplies,etc) I’ve come to the conclusion that occasionally using the Hydro-Pulse is probably not a good idea. I’m going to switch over to using saline to clean my nose of dust when working on PCs. I’ll keep the Hydro Pulse on standby if my allergies act up or if I get a head cold and use Dr. Grossan’s procedure to clean it out before use. Thanks to all who replied to my post. Regards, David

Response:

On 5/23/05 5:52 PM, in article CJSdnSfX67VA5w_fRVn…@inreach.com, "DMF" wrote: > Steven L wrote… >> Why store it away for long periods? Just take it out every week >> and run the Clorox bleach solution thru it just as if you were >> irrigating with it. > That’s one possible solution… but I have decided I will only use the > Hydro Pulse if I get a cold or if my allergies act up. I will just use > the saline sprays to clear out nose dust from when I service PCs. > (See my reply to Dr. Grossan’s post). > Regards, > David

That is what I recommend. Once your nose is normal, it doesn’t have to be made more normal. We have patients who used the Hydro Pulse two weeks and didn’t need it any more too.

Response:

Should I just dump this batch?

admin — Sun, 05 Jan 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Yep. If it’s really nasty, you have encountered a fatal error, and what you have brewed is in fact not even really beer. Don’t sweat it, we’ve all done it. The 1st batch sanitation was like this – about a gallon (5l) dilute bleach which I swooshed around the fermenter, and rolled it over leaving the bleach on each part of the fermenter for at least 20 mins (took a couple of hours), then rinsed with rainwater twice (!), then with boiling water twice. I guess it worked ok.

Not only does this sound like a pain, if I understand you correctly, you’re courting disaster. The first rinse — do you mean pre-boiled rainwater? If not, you just undid whatever sanitizing the bleach step provided. And this second rinse — you don’t actually mean boiling water, do you? Since you describe "rolling over" your fermenter, I assume that means you are using glass. I’d be surprised if a glass carboy could survive boiling water. Pre-boiled water is good to rinse with, provided it hasn’t been left open to the air while cooling. However, even a covered pot sitting on the stove will suck in some air from the room as the "headspace" cools. As you can see, you really can’t win, at least not completely. No sanitization method is guaranteed. That is why homebrewers tend to get experience to see what works, and then stick with it. It also helps explain the popularity of the no-rinse sanitizers. Now, raise your hand if, like me, you’ve been known to rinse with plain hot tap water, and get away with it over and over.

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the tips. I have decided to give it a little bit longer. But I’ve kinda decided my general rule of thumb will be if I can’t even stand to swallow it after primary fermentation, I’ll cut my losses and try again. This 2nd batch is like that – really, really disgusting and I can’t stand to swallow it. I tasted a bottle of 1st batch just to try it out – it’s actually turned out ok, and that’s after just over a week in the bottle. A little fruity/ester and a little bitter – but not too much for an ale – I’ll just drop the fermentation temp a bit next time to drop the esters and I’m tipping the bitterness will fade a bit with time. What can be done to improve head though? Oh yeah, bregent – I used boiled rainwater for the 1st batch, spring water for the 2nd. The 1st batch sanitation was like this – about a gallon (5l) dilute bleach which I swooshed around the fermenter, and rolled it over leaving the bleach on each part of the fermenter for at least 20 mins (took a couple of hours), then rinsed with rainwater twice (!), then with boiling water twice. I guess it worked ok

Yikes, that sounds like it was a pain! Try to find some Iodophor or StarSan – it will save a lot of work. Also, a no-rinse bleach solution can me made at 20PPM. You need to have a 30 minute contact time, and the fermenter should be drained very well.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug, I’m aware that the article was not refering to using H2O2 as a sanitizer. However, I was under the impression that the OP was using BrewShield as a water/wort conditioner and so it would have the same effect if used in similar concentrations. I’m not sure how the OP was using the product. The original poster was using Brew-shield as a sanitizer. This is the sanitizer that contains colloidal silver and a peroxide. There were some posting last year about this sanitizer. It reportably works. It might. IIRC, the FDA maintains that colloidal silver is not an effective sanitizer. BrewShield may work fine, but it doesn’t have the track record of StarSan or Iodophor which is why I stated that I wouldn’t use it. I’m a bit leary of a product that claims to be an effective fungacide, but also won’t harm yeast.

I used this product quite extensively in my early brewing days, and when using it as my main sanitiser I had infections. As a spray-on and surface sanitiser, and as fluid for a 2 part airlock, it seems to work well and I still use it for that. I have had brew-shield in the airlock of a carboy of mead that’s been sitting around for over a year, and there is NO growth of mold in the airlock, but an airlock with just water in it develops mold in a couple of weeks in our climate. These days, I mainly use bleach, but will probably switch to iodophor when I place my next mail order for supplies. Since switching over to bleach I have had ZERO infections, period. cheers, Colin Brisbane, Australia

Response:

I’m a bit leary of a product that claims to be an effective fungacide, but also won’t harm yeast.

I agree with that. It really says it is beneficial to yeast. Hard to believe a sanitizer can be beneficial to "brewery flora" "Brew-shield is beer friendly, odourless and exhibits no influence on taste, yet has a beneficial effect on the entire brewery flora."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… 2. Is H202 ok as a sanitiser? (I’d normally use bleach but my current abode is on rainwater which is no good for rinsing) I wouldn’t use H2O2 as some problems have been reported: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue4.6/miller.html If you can get some, try either Iodophor or StarSan sanitizers. Both are very effective and no-rinse. This article does not comment on using hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizer for brewing equipment. It says that hydrogen peroxide will not work well for sterilizing air from an aquarium pump because the author feels the air will retain a strong rubber smell. It also says that hydrogen peroxide does not work to oxygenate wort. It just kills the yeast.

Doug, I’m aware that the article was not refering to using H2O2 as a sanitizer. However, I was under the impression that the OP was using BrewShield as a water/wort conditioner and so it would have the same effect if used in similar concentrations. I’m not sure how the OP was using the product. The original poster was using Brew-shield as a sanitizer. This is the sanitizer that contains colloidal silver and a peroxide. There were some posting last year about this sanitizer. It reportably works.

It might. IIRC, the FDA maintains that colloidal silver is not an effective sanitizer. BrewShield may work fine, but it doesn’t have the track record of StarSan or Iodophor which is why I stated that I wouldn’t use it. I’m a bit leary of a product that claims to be an effective fungacide, but also won’t harm yeast.

Response:

Thanks for the tips. I have decided to give it a little bit longer. But I’ve kinda decided my general rule of thumb will be if I can’t even stand to swallow it after primary fermentation, I’ll cut my losses and try again. This 2nd batch is like that – really, really disgusting and I can’t stand to swallow it. I tasted a bottle of 1st batch just to try it out – it’s actually turned out ok, and that’s after just over a week in the bottle. A little fruity/ester and a little bitter – but not too much for an ale – I’ll just drop the fermentation temp a bit next time to drop the esters and I’m tipping the bitterness will fade a bit with time. What can be done to improve head though? Oh yeah, bregent – I used boiled rainwater for the 1st batch, spring water for the 2nd. The 1st batch sanitation was like this – about a gallon (5l) dilute bleach which I swooshed around the fermenter, and rolled it over leaving the bleach on each part of the fermenter for at least 20 mins (took a couple of hours), then rinsed with rainwater twice (!), then with boiling water twice. I guess it worked ok. This is definitely a great hobby, and excellent to have a group like this for expert advice – much appreciated. Thanks again, Paul

Response:

Paul- Welcome to the brewing hobby… We sort of have a motto – "Don’t dump a batch until you HAVE to" – or something like that… The point is that a lot of things happen during fermentation, aging, etc. You don’t know it’s bad until you KNOW it’s bad. Time is your friend in these matters. Give your batch some time for things to settle down. When it comes time to bottle (or whatever) then you can decide if it’s worth the effort or not. — Matt Jarvis www.BrewDomain.com Eugene, Oregon USA

Response:

says… 2. Is H202 ok as a sanitiser? (I’d normally use bleach but my current abode is on rainwater which is no good for rinsing) I wouldn’t use H2O2 as some problems have been reported: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue4.6/miller.html If you can get some, try either Iodophor or StarSan sanitizers. Both are very effective and no-rinse.

This article does not comment on using hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizer for brewing equipment. It says that hydrogen peroxide will not work well for sterilizing air from an aquarium pump because the author feels the air will retain a strong rubber smell. It also says that hydrogen peroxide does not work to oxygenate wort. It just kills the yeast. The original poster was using Brew-shield as a sanitizer. This is the sanitizer that contains colloidal silver and a peroxide. There were some posting last year about this sanitizer. It reportably works. http://www.homebrew.com.au/brewshie.htm Hydrogen peroxide by itself is not a recommended sanitizer according to this article by James Liddil and John Palmer. It will work but you have to use a 3% concentration to sanitize in 10 minutes. This is the concentration that is sold in the store so it would be expensive to use. http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/cleaning.html#h2o2 As stated, Iodophor and StarSan are excellent. I use Iodophor. With any sanitizer, it is very important to clean the equipment before sanitizing. You cannot easily sanitize a dirty surface. I suspect that your equipment may not have been clean enough and that may have caused an infection in your batch. Also, Mexican Cerveza is usually a lager. What yeast was used? 74 F is warm for fermenting a lager. Doug

Response:

the vinegar smell/taste is usually associated with wild yeasts getting into your brew causing it to become vinegar instead of beer. As for your beer (1st batch) being way to bitter, its hard to say. What kind of beers do you usually drink? The IPA you made is intentionally very bitter. The extra hops (historically) were added to act as a preservative for long trips from GB to India (i.e. India Pale Ale). Maybe a more mellow style is more to your taste. I don’t know how I feel about your peroxide steriliser, as I’ve personally never heard of a h202 sterilizer used in brewing. I use StarSan , which is also no rinse and have no problems. If your sterilizer was made for brewing then I’m sure its fine. Also, don’t forget that you need to clean everything before you sterilize it. I’m pretty sure that you have an infection in that beer (bacteria or wild yeast), based on the fact that you said that it smells like vinegar. Good Luck Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sorry to ask some pretty newbie questions but I trust the advice from here even more than from a brewshop. I made my first batch a couple of weeks ago, a simple Coopers IPA kit just to get me started – so far it seems to be going ok, bottled it and will taste it later this week, although the SG of that one only went down to about 12 instead of 6 which I thought it would be. But the real problem is with the 2nd batch – another kit , a Mexican Cerveza. It’s pretty much stopped fermenting after 3.5 days of good fermentation at about 24C (74F) and now has a good SG reading. But the brew looks and tastes pretty bloody terrible. Drawing off a sample it is incredibly cloudy (almost milky) and smells like vinegar. After sitting in a glass for about 15 mins it leaves a milky white residue at the bottom. The taste is not something I’d associate with good beer either – chemical and bitter. I used a thing called Brew Shield here in Australia which is a peroxide steriliser. So a couple of questions- 1. What’s wrong with the brew – big time infection? 2. Is H202 ok as a sanitiser? (I’d normally use bleach but my current abode is on rainwater which is no good for rinsing) 3. What exactly should the brew taste like after primary fermentation? Even my 1st batch tasted quite bitter and probably not something I could drink a lot of. So should I just dump this batch and try again? I’d rather not waste bottles on it if it isn’t going to be drinkable. Cheers Paul

Response:

Hi, Sorry to ask some pretty newbie questions but I trust the advice from here even more than from a brewshop. I made my first batch a couple of weeks ago, a simple Coopers IPA kit just to get me started – so far it seems to be going ok, bottled it and will taste it later this week, although the SG of that one only went down to about 12 instead of 6 which I thought it would be. But the real problem is with the 2nd batch – another kit , a Mexican Cerveza. It’s pretty much stopped fermenting after 3.5 days of good fermentation at about 24C (74F) and now has a good SG reading. But the brew looks and tastes pretty bloody terrible. Drawing off a sample it is incredibly cloudy (almost milky) and smells like vinegar. After sitting in a glass for about 15 mins it leaves a milky white residue at the bottom. The taste is not something I’d associate with good beer either – chemical and bitter. I used a thing called Brew Shield here in Australia which is a peroxide steriliser. So a couple of questions- 1. What’s wrong with the brew – big time infection? 2. Is H202 ok as a sanitiser? (I’d normally use bleach but my current abode is on rainwater which is no good for rinsing) 3. What exactly should the brew taste like after primary fermentation? Even my 1st batch tasted quite bitter and probably not something I could drink a lot of. So should I just dump this batch and try again? I’d rather not waste bottles on it if it isn’t going to be drinkable. Cheers Paul

Response:

says… Hi, Sorry to ask some pretty newbie questions but I trust the advice from here even more than from a brewshop. I made my first batch a couple of weeks ago, a simple Coopers IPA kit just to get me started – so far it seems to be going ok, bottled it and will taste it later this week, although the SG of that one only went down to about 12 instead of 6 which I thought it would be.

If you used malt instead of the sugar that many kits call for, then your final gravity will be higher. But the real problem is with the 2nd batch – another kit , a Mexican Cerveza. It’s pretty much stopped fermenting after 3.5 days of good fermentation at about 24C (74F) and now has a good SG reading. But the brew looks and tastes pretty bloody terrible. Drawing off a sample it is incredibly cloudy (almost milky) and smells like vinegar. After sitting in a glass for about 15 mins it leaves a milky white residue at the bottom. The taste is not something I’d associate with

If it really smells like vinegar (acetic acid), then it probably is hosed. However, I think it would be unlikely to have reached that point after only 4 days. Beer will sometimes have a sour flavor and aroma if there is a lot of yeast in suspension – hopefully that’s what you’re experiencing. good beer either – chemical and bitter. I used a thing called Brew Shield here in Australia which is a peroxide steriliser.

I don’t know of anywhere other than Australia that this sanitizer (or even peroxide) is used. So a couple of questions- 1. What’s wrong with the brew – big time infection?

Wait at least a week or two for the beer to clear – then try it again. 2. Is H202 ok as a sanitiser? (I’d normally use bleach but my current abode is on rainwater which is no good for rinsing)

I wouldn’t use H2O2 as some problems have been reported: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue4.6/miller.html If you can get some, try either Iodophor or StarSan sanitizers. Both are very effective and no-rinse. If your water is no good for rinsing, then can I assume that you are boiling all of your brewing water? I hope so. 3. What exactly should the brew taste like after primary fermentation? Even my 1st batch tasted quite bitter and probably not something I could drink a lot of.

Assuming the yeast has mostly dropped, then it should taste like beer. If it doesn’t clear on it’s own after a week, consider fining it. So should I just dump this batch and try again? I’d rather not waste bottles on it if it isn’t going to be drinkable.

No, again, wait it out a bit longer.

Response:

3. What exactly should the brew taste like after primary fermentation? Even my 1st batch tasted quite bitter and probably not something I could drink a lot of.

The only way for you to know this it to taste every batch and learn to associate. I’ve made 9 batches, and all of my beer tastes bloody awful to me up until it gets carbonated. Still training my taste buds I guess. My beers have tasted either way too sweet or way too hopped, but by the time they’ve been kegged and aged a few weeks they always taste fine. Now I don’t know about a vinegar taste… but other more experienced brewers certainly will.

Response:

RIMS, HERMS??? What are these?

admin — Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? — Hand me a beer, Peter

Response:

There are lots of opinions, pro and con, on these; A lot of websites with info as well. Basically, they are variations of the same method of mashing. The only difference is in the heat source. Recirculating Infusion Mash Systems (RIMS) typically are a closed loop between the mash tun, a pump, and an electric heating element. The heater is used to maintain the mash temperature, and occasionally to raise it from step to step on a multi-step mash. This requires a fair amount of power, however, which makes it hard to do without burning the wort on the heating element. Enter Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash system (HERMS, which is actually trademarked, I believe). This system uses a heat exchanger to apply heat to the wort, ususally from a coil in the Hot Liquor Tank (HLT). Other systems use a separate vessel that is electrically heated, with a much smaller volume. The idea is to decrease the watt density, to prevent burning of the wort. The heat exchanger has a much larger surface area than the electric heating element, and so can heat the wort using a much lower temperature. There are many on this group that think either one is a complete waste of time, and others swear by it. I will say this, however. If it’s your intent to automate the mashing process so that it can proceed from dough-in to mash-out unattended, your system will likely have some resemblance to RIMS or HERMS. I was playing around today with a variation on the above theme, nicknamed DiFRIMS or DiFRMS that reciculates the mash tun like a RIMS or HERMS, but heats the bottom of the kettle to raise/maintain temperature. All the recirculation does is keep the mash isothermal. And, the Infusion part of the name in RIMS is really a misnomer. It’s not really an infusion mash, though for all practical purposes, it works like one. Regards, Mike Sharp Regards, Mike Sharp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? — Hand me a beer, Peter

Response:

Mike, heats the bottom of the kettle to raise/maintain temperature. All the

Actually this is the method I’m using: my kettle has an electric heating element underneath the bottom. The wort flows through the filterplate, ‘touches’ the heated bottom and then flows out the kettle via a valve. No scorching. Please have a look: http://www.barleys.nl/index.htm?brewzilla Grtz, JW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are lots of opinions, pro and con, on these; A lot of websites with info as well. Basically, they are variations of the same method of mashing. The only difference is in the heat source. Recirculating Infusion Mash Systems (RIMS) typically are a closed loop between the mash tun, a pump, and an electric heating element. The heater is used to maintain the mash temperature, and occasionally to raise it from step to step on a multi-step mash. This requires a fair amount of power, however, which makes it hard to do without burning the wort on the heating element. Enter Heat Exchanger Recirculating Mash system (HERMS, which is actually trademarked, I believe). This system uses a heat exchanger to apply heat to the wort, ususally from a coil in the Hot Liquor Tank (HLT). Other systems use a separate vessel that is electrically heated, with a much smaller volume. The idea is to decrease the watt density, to prevent burning of the wort. The heat exchanger has a much larger surface area than the electric heating element, and so can heat the wort using a much lower temperature. There are many on this group that think either one is a complete waste of time, and others swear by it. I will say this, however. If it’s your intent to automate the mashing process so that it can proceed from dough-in to mash-out unattended, your system will likely have some resemblance to RIMS or HERMS. I was playing around today with a variation on the above theme, nicknamed DiFRIMS or DiFRMS that reciculates the mash tun like a RIMS or HERMS, but heats the bottom of the kettle to raise/maintain temperature. All the recirculation does is keep the mash isothermal. And, the Infusion part of the name in RIMS is really a misnomer. It’s not really an infusion mash, though for all practical purposes, it works like one. Regards, Mike Sharp Regards, Mike Sharp I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? — Hand me a beer, Peter

Response:

Check out this website http://www.brew-beer.com/breweries.htm. It has a lot of good examples of many different types of home breweries. I a lot of these as references in building my own system. Cheers! — Dylan McGehee

Response:

Please have a look: http://www.barleys.nl/index.htm?brewzilla Grtz, JW

JW has big list of breweries on his site below. You can get a very good idea of what others have designed and built. Check here: http://www.barleys.nl/index.htm?thuisbrouwerijen A review of these home breweries should answer most of your questions. Have Fun! Wayne Botanist Brewer Big Fun Brewing RIMS Site http://home.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm Note: Spamguard used in email address…..

Response:

I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics?

It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on. Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff. The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff. js HOME: Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Sausage, Videos http://schmidling.netfirms.com

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Completely unnecessary: yes. Just there for wow factor: no. Fun to build: absolutely! My HERMS and all the other stuff I have is generated around making my brew day sort and easy (like 6 hours isn’t short enough). That way i can do clean up while I brew. Burp, -Dan — Replace "nospam" with msn to send me email. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see a lot of terminology that I’m not familiar with. What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on. Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

"John ‘Shaggy’ Kolesar" What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on. Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff. The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff.

RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems. I like to think the Herms/Rims systems as "dedicated" brewing equipment. It’s the same as purchasing a converted keg. It solves a particular brewing problem you may have–ie. larger capacity boils. Is buying a converted keg unnecessary? I could just use the stove and a pot to brew beer. Maybe the problems designers of RIMS/HEARMS get into results from plumbing every valve and pump opening to a neat "turn key" solution. I agree there’s excesses in the above examples but please don’t go too far saying they’re solutions to problems that don’t exist. Largo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "John ‘Shaggy’ Kolesar" What is RIMS and HERMS? Is there a good discussion on there advanced topics? It’s a really cool meathod for doing an all-grain mash that you can spend a fortune on. Personally, I think they’re completely unnecessary except for the "Wow" factor. Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff. The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff. RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems. I like to think the Herms/Rims systems as "dedicated" brewing equipment. It’s the same as purchasing a converted keg. It solves a particular brewing problem you may have–ie. larger capacity boils. Is buying a converted keg unnecessary? I could just use the stove and a pot to brew beer. Maybe the problems designers of RIMS/HEARMS get into results from plumbing every valve and pump opening to a neat "turn key" solution. I agree there’s excesses in the above examples but please don’t go too far saying they’re solutions to problems that don’t exist. Largo

BTW my brewing machine, "Mr. Masher" based on a heat exchange method is viewable at the following link: "http://www.sdc.org/~markt/". Soon I’ll have an update on the page illustrating my successes and improvements made to it. Good luck. Largo

Response:

I say to each his own. But IMHO an optimum grain crush is obtained by backing repeatedly over the grain with a Bridgestone Potenza RE940 on a concrete driveway, who needs a stinkin grain mill.

Really? What size RIMS? HAHAHAHA! Sorry, couldn’t resist. Regards, Mike "Rodney Dangerfield" Sharp

Response:

Some folks like to make beer and some like to make beer making stuff.

I can’t believe I’m hearing this from the guy who builds the self proclaimed best damn gadget to mill grain. I myself like to make great beer AND great beer "making stuff". The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive but does increase the enjoyment of the hobby for gearheads such as myself… So there!! ;-P The above are solutions to problems that do not exist and that the need to make stuff.

Necessary to make great beer? NO! But to step mash and mash out, and adjust mash temps, hell yes, a lot easier than adding hot water or direct heating a kettle. Does one need to do these things? Well, we can argue till hell freezes over that point. But it sure fells good being able to do it if I want to! So there again!! I say to each his own. But IMHO an optimum grain crush is obtained by backing repeatedly over the grain with a Bridgestone Potenza RE940 on a concrete driveway, who needs a stinkin grain mill. — Bill Alvin, TX Homebrewing site http://home.swbell.net/bufkin

Response:

RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems.

What brewing problem does your RIMS/HERMS solve that you can’t just as easily solve without using it? John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

RIMS/HERMS is not excessive or unnecessary if it solves brewing problems. What brewing problem does your RIMS/HERMS solve that you can’t just as easily solve without using it? John.

John, I know what you’re getting at. First off, there’s a work-around for everything in brewing. Before there was electricity, there was beer. Whenever there’s a desire to increase capacity, automation comes to mind–and that solves a problem for some people. Automation doesn’t have to use neither new machines nor computerized controllers by definition. You might use a paper checklist or PDA brewing software. These tools help in brewing and if that solves a problem, great. That’s all I’m trying to suggest. In my case, Mr. Masher starts by heating water accurately for the mash. There are no pots and pans to move on and off the stove. Next the pump moves the hot water to the tun for starch conversion. I may re-circulate the wort or add heat for a particular mash step. It’s electrical heating design solves the problem of using gas indoors. In my observation, if you go beyond heating water or mashing, the brewing process starts to revolve around the RIMS/HERMS (gadgets) design, which makes more problems than it is worth. Largo

Response:

smirnoff ice?

admin — Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Anybody know how to brew smirnoff ice? My local brew shop hasn’t a clue, and it would make it lots easier for me to spend more money on brewing equipment if I could make my wife happy by makeing her some.

These "malternatives" would be near impossible to make at home. Most only use 2% of the total volume in beer, and the rest is "flavorings". So to get you started on a 5 gallon batch, first make 13 ounces of beer, and blend the rest of the 5 gallons with flavorings…. Cheers, Mike

Response:

Actually, the post he found on google had one piece of the puzzle I’ve been thinking about. I’ve been toying with the idea myself, and not because I think it’s a cheap way to make hard lemonade, but for the same reason I homebrew. I wanna tinker with it, and make something even a little better. So, what I had been thinking about was using ultrafiltration. But that google posting reminded me about the use of finings to strip color and flavors…not a bad approach, and probably easier to do than ultrafiltration, though I have most of the equipment for that already. I’m not so sure that body would be an unpleasant thing, though, so I don’t know if I’d go the complete route described for zima with enzyme addtions and all. But a good mash at say 147-148F might get enough conversion to produce a reasonably dry, but not too dry, base. I’m not out to get it the cheapest possible way, and I don’t want to use a process that’s too different from the one I already use. Anyway, mash low, then following fermentation, finings with lots of bentonite and granular AC, followed by simple filtration (say 1-5 micron). Maybe I’ll try it… Regards, Mike Sharp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can try to brew yourself a hard lemonade type drink. There are a few references to it which can be found on Google. I made one myself and found the product to be dry. Additional measures need to be taken when undertaking a second attempt, as suggested in the current thread Mike Dixon has going about his overly dry brew. In the meantime, I’ll let my bottles age & sweeten with sugar upon serving as neccesary. If you do get into homebrewing, continue to use this resource. It’s the best one out there, IMO, but you should augment this information with a good basic homebrewing textbook. You’ve already found google, which is great for viewing the archives of past discussions on this forum. Anybody know how to brew smirnoff ice? My local brew shop hasn’t a clue, and it would make it lots easier for me to spend more money on brewing equipment if I could make my wife happy by makeing her some. -Marc

Response:

Well, curiosity got the better of me…again. Here’s a link to the ATF labeling requirements for "Malt Beverages" with an excerpt below. http://www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/info/issues/malt_beverages.pdf 94-1 MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR MALT BEVERAGE PRODUCTS Materials used to treat brewing water are not classified as brewing adjuncts and must be unobjectionable under laws and regulations of FDA. Malt beverages must be made with 25% or more malt. Malt beverages must be made with at least 7.5 pounds of hops per 100 barrels. I take this to mean that drinks like Mike’s Hard actually have hops, at least in the brewing/fermenting phase. Ok, maybe 7.5 lb per 3100 gallons isn’t much…That’s what, less than a quarter ounce in a 5 gallon batch! I’m sure the hop volatiles are removed by filtration later. And by comparison, I guess that makes a Coors drinker a Hophead! Regards, Mike Sharp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Yes, I think most of us remember that thread and many others like it. But is it really worth it to make this stuff from malt? By the time you’re done, it will be easier, cheaper and probably just taste better if you use a neutral spirit rather than fermenting malt and then filtering. The reason that the folks at Coors, Seagrams, Smirnoff, Jack Daniels, etc use malt is to avoid media restrictions on hard liquor beverages. If they could, I’m sure they would much prefer to sell you a premixed coctail based on vodka that they could easily make taste the same as ‘Ice’. The reason they don’t is because of legal restrictions. If you want to try it just to satisfy your curiousity, fine. Otherwise, you’re better off just kegging a giant mixed coctail. Actually, I think the restrictions on advertising distilled spirits are self-imposed. They are, which is why some groups are claiming that the industry should not be self regulating. But Why would it be easier for them to make a beer, distill it, and then dilute it back to beer concentration? Wouldn’t it make more sense, and cost less, to go the malt beverage route in the first place? The way I understand it is that malt is more expensive than other sugar sources. I always assumed the malt beverages were labeled that because they contain more than 5% alcohol. My meager understanding is that the label is required for any beverage in that range, no matter how it got there. In other words, Mickey Big Mouth is malt liquor because of it’s alcohol content, and Mike’s Hard is a malt beverage because of _it’s_ alcohol content as well (5.2%). I don’t think so. Almost all beer is 5%ABV. I don’t remember the labelling requirements for malt liquors, but they are well in excess of 5%. I don’t think that these alcopop beverages are labelled malt beverages because of their ABV, but because of some other requirement – self imposed or otherwise.

Response:

But Why would it be easier for them to make a beer, distill it, and then dilute it back to beer concentration? Wouldn’t it make more sense, and cost less, to go the malt beverage route in the first place? The way I understand it is that malt is more expensive than other sugar sources.

I wonder what the minimum level of malt is in order to be called a ‘malt’ beverage? I’d also bet that there’s a market out there of people who believe that malt beverages aren’t ‘hard liquor’ but the the same drink made with 5% Everclear (or equivalent vodka) is. It wouldn’t suprise me if the main reaons thahese products exist is to advertise the prime company (Stoli, Jack Daniels, etc) to support flagging bottle sales of the hard liquor. The self imposed ban on advertising broke back in 1997, but shifted to media outlets. Many liquor started advertising, but many television stations wouldn’t run the ads until after 9:00 pm. Liquor, like food, is best advertised around dinnertime, when you’d _want_ some, not at 9:30 when you’ve _had_ some. bob.

Response:

Based on everything I’ve read, these are definitely malt based beverages and not made from hard liquor. They would not be able to advertise and market them if they were.

They are made with a small percentage of actual beer 2-5% of the total volume, and the remainder comes from "flavorings". Remember that flavorings often contain alcohol (vanilla for example). Cheers, Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Based on everything I’ve read, these are definitely malt based beverages and not made from hard liquor. They would not be able to advertise and market them if they were. They are made with a small percentage of actual beer 2-5% of the total volume, and the remainder comes from "flavorings". Remember that flavorings often contain alcohol (vanilla for example). Cheers, Mike

I’m finding this a bit hard to believe, especially in the context of Mike’s Hard lemonade. The "other natural flavors" part must mean lemon juice/citric acid and the like. But where else would the alcohol come from, if not beer? Surely not the flavorings. They couldn’t add enough flavoring to get the alcohol up to 5.2%. It would take 1 1/2 oz of a flavoring with 40% alcohol to achieve this. Even if vanilla was an ingredient in a drink, it couldn’t be THAT high! And rarely, if ever, do you see real vanilla as the flavoring in a "Vanilla Flavored" food product. One can account for the alcohol in vanilla and other flavorings that require a solvent, but not lemon juice. Now, what I _could_ believe is that they make a high gravity wort, perhaps as high as 14%, and dilute it after fermentation and filtering to 5.2%. So maybe 30% of the beverage starts out life as something you could call beer, the rest is water and "other natural flavors"…Whatever they do, you can be sure it’s done a particular way because it’s most efficient. In other words, once you take in the capital costs, refrigeration, etc., if high gravity wort costs less than brewing to the final alcohol content, then that’s what they’ll use. I wouldn’t be surprised if the wine coolers aren’t made with wine, either, and rather start out life as beer. But I don’t really have any info on that. And, *yuck*, I don’t think I _want_ any, either! ;^) regards, Mike

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never seene Mike’s Hard Lemonade advertised as Malt beverage. thought it was Vodka beverage. Paul Oh, I hate to admit this, but I have one in front of me right now (it’s amazing the things you’ll drink when you run out of homebrew…) Anyway, it says, right below the logo/name: 5.2% Alc/vol Lemon Clear Malt Beverage With other natural flavors. But, the labeling might be different in other countries, such as Canada, where it is made (at least where mine was made). I really would be surprised if any of the pre-packaged drinks actually used distilled spirits. It almost _has_ to be more expensive. But even if it was made with vodka, it’s possible the strange labeling laws would require the use of the word "Malt" due to the alcohol content.

Based on everything I’ve read, these are definitely malt based beverages and not made from hard liquor. They would not be able to advertise and market them if they were.

Response:

Ditto. Who among us has not had a european lager with "ale" or "malt liquor" curiously printed on the label? *Phonics for spammers….it works!

Response:

I’ve never seene Mike’s Hard Lemonade advertised as Malt beverage. thought it was Vodka beverage. Paul

Oh, I hate to admit this, but I have one in front of me right now (it’s amazing the things you’ll drink when you run out of homebrew…) Anyway, it says, right below the logo/name: 5.2% Alc/vol Lemon Clear Malt Beverage With other natural flavors. But, the labeling might be different in other countries, such as Canada, where it is made (at least where mine was made). I really would be surprised if any of the pre-packaged drinks actually used distilled spirits. It almost _has_ to be more expensive. But even if it was made with vodka, it’s possible the strange labeling laws would require the use of the word "Malt" due to the alcohol content. Regards, Mike Sharp

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I think most of us remember that thread and many others like it. But is it really worth it to make this stuff from malt? By the time you’re done, it will be easier, cheaper and probably just taste better if you use a neutral spirit rather than fermenting malt and then filtering. The reason that the folks at Coors, Seagrams, Smirnoff, Jack Daniels, etc use malt is to avoid media restrictions on hard liquor beverages. If they could, I’m sure they would much prefer to sell you a premixed coctail based on vodka that they could easily make taste the same as ‘Ice’. The reason they don’t is because of legal restrictions. If you want to try it just to satisfy your curiousity, fine. Otherwise, you’re better off just kegging a giant mixed coctail. Actually, I think the restrictions on advertising distilled spirits are self-imposed.

They are, which is why some groups are claiming that the industry should not be self regulating. But Why would it be easier for them to make a beer, distill it, and then dilute it back to beer concentration? Wouldn’t it make more sense, and cost less, to go the malt beverage route in the first place?

The way I understand it is that malt is more expensive than other sugar sources. I always assumed the malt beverages were labeled that because they contain more than 5% alcohol. My meager understanding is that the label is required for any beverage in that range, no matter how it got there. In other words, Mickey Big Mouth is malt liquor because of it’s alcohol content, and Mike’s Hard is a malt beverage because of _it’s_ alcohol content as well (5.2%).

I don’t think so. Almost all beer is 5%ABV. I don’t remember the labelling requirements for malt liquors, but they are well in excess of 5%. I don’t think that these alcopop beverages are labelled malt beverages because of their ABV, but because of some other requirement – self imposed or otherwise.

Response:

I’ve never seene Mike’s Hard Lemonade advertised as Malt beverage. thought it was Vodka beverage. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In other words, Mickey Big Mouth is malt liquor because of it’s alcohol content, and Mike’s Hard is a malt beverage because of _it’s_ alcohol content as well (5.2%).

Response:

Yes, I think most of us remember that thread and many others like it. But is it really worth it to make this stuff from malt? By the time you’re done, it will be easier, cheaper and probably just taste better if you use a neutral spirit rather than fermenting malt and then filtering. The reason that the folks at Coors, Seagrams, Smirnoff, Jack Daniels, etc use malt is to avoid media restrictions on hard liquor beverages. If they could, I’m sure they would much prefer to sell you a premixed coctail based on vodka that they could easily make taste the same as ‘Ice’. The reason they don’t is because of legal restrictions. If you want to try it just to satisfy your curiousity, fine. Otherwise, you’re better off just kegging a giant mixed coctail.

Actually, I think the restrictions on advertising distilled spirits are self-imposed. But Why would it be easier for them to make a beer, distill it, and then dilute it back to beer concentration? Wouldn’t it make more sense, and cost less, to go the malt beverage route in the first place? I always assumed the malt beverages were labeled that because they contain more than 5% alcohol. My meager understanding is that the label is required for any beverage in that range, no matter how it got there. In other words, Mickey Big Mouth is malt liquor because of it’s alcohol content, and Mike’s Hard is a malt beverage because of _it’s_ alcohol content as well (5.2%). Regards, Mike Sharp Regards, Mike Sharp

Response:

WeeeEEEeeell… I was more looking for a recipe for makeing 5 gallons of it. it says it’s a malt beverage, so it should be possible to make it? but thanks ;-D

Depends on your definition of "possible". Basically you can make a beer, and then filter the crap out of it so well that you strip out colour as well as flavour, essentially leaving just alcohol and water behind (You need a really tight filter for this, I’m not sure if you can even get them easily without going into the "commercial" realm). Then you add artifical flavouring to make it taste like smirnoff ice, Zima, or whatever your favourite "trendy" malt-beverage of the week is. I doubt you’ll find many people here who have the equipment to do this at home, or the desire. I’m not even sure it’s possible to do at home. It’s probably going to be much easier to just buy it at the store than try to make it yourself. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

Response:

My wife was also not a tremendous beer fan when I started brewing (she now thinks IPA’s are perfectly acceptable) There’s a few other really nice recipes that she might like that taste more like … well … beer. You might want to try a rasberry wheat beer with very little hops and a pound or two of honey. morebeer.com also carries a honey ale that is very mild. Best of luck with SWMBO. r/ Dave

Response:

Magneato, don’t get upset with the information you are being presented. The negative opinions you are experiencing come from homebrewers with many years and several batches under their belts. While these opinions are certainly deserved and respectable, they are geared towards those with their level of experience, not towards your own. They are only trying to save you some heartache & I agree with Bregent’s suggestions. You can try to brew yourself a hard lemonade type drink. There are a few references to it which can be found on Google. I made one myself and found the product to be dry. Additional measures need to be taken when undertaking a second attempt, as suggested in the current thread Mike Dixon has going about his overly dry brew. In the meantime, I’ll let my bottles age & sweeten with sugar upon serving as neccesary. If you do get into homebrewing, continue to use this resource. It’s the best one out there, IMO, but you should augment this information with a good basic homebrewing textbook. You’ve already found google, which is great for viewing the archives of past discussions on this forum. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know how to brew smirnoff ice? My local brew shop hasn’t a clue, and it would make it lots easier for me to spend more money on brewing equipment if I could make my wife happy by makeing her some. -Marc

Response:

Ok all you smart-alecs… I took derric’s advice and found this link on google in case anybody else is interested: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=smirnoff+group:rec.crafts.brewing&h… =&ie=UTF-8&selm=thfco1hl0ks6d6%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=1 guess i coulda researched more before i posted, but oh well. -Marc

Response:

WeeeEEEeeell… I was more looking for a recipe for makeing 5 gallons of it. it says it’s a malt beverage, so it should be possible to make it? but thanks ;-D

560 oz 7-up, 80oz Smirnoff Vodka Sorry… you wanted 5 gallons…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WeeeEEEeeell… I was more looking for a recipe for makeing 5 gallons of it. it says it’s a malt beverage, so it should be possible to make it? but thanks ;-D 560 oz 7-up, 80oz Smirnoff Vodka Sorry… you wanted 5 gallons…

Response:

Tastes like a vodka collins to me. Don

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what it taste like so I can’t recommend an exact recipe, but start with a neutral spirit like vodka diluted to 5% and then add the flavoring.

Response:

WeeeEEEeeell… I was more looking for a recipe for makeing 5 gallons of it. it says it’s a malt beverage, so it should be possible to make it? but thanks ;-D

It is a malt beverage, but by the time they are done filtering it, it’s really not – all of the malt flavor and body is removed. As I understand it, the reason malt is used is a simply a legal issue. Since the malt flavors are removed, you can make it from any 5% alcohol solution and then add back the flavors you want. I don’t know what it taste like so I can’t recommend an exact recipe, but start with a neutral spirit like vodka diluted to 5% and then add the flavoring. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know how to brew smirnoff ice? My local brew shop hasn’t a clue, and it would make it lots easier for me to spend more money on brewing equipment if I could make my wife happy by makeing her some. -Marc 8oz. 7-up + 1oz. smirnoff vodka…

Response:

Thank you ;-D -Marc

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know how to brew smirnoff ice? My local brew shop hasn’t a clue, and it would make it lots easier for me to spend more money on brewing equipment if I could make my wife happy by makeing her some. There have been several similar threads recently with some serious answers. You may want to search for them on google in the newsgroups area and see what you can turn up… Derric

Response:

8oz. 7-up + 1oz. smirnoff vodka…

Response:

WeeeEEEeeell… I was more looking for a recipe for makeing 5 gallons of it. it says it’s a malt beverage, so it should be possible to make it? but thanks ;-D

Response:

There have been several similar threads recently with some serious answers. You may want to search for them on google in the newsgroups area and see what you can turn up… Derric

Response:

Im going to Seattle!

admin — Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I was there a few weeks ago and went to Anacortes and Laconner-both lovely towns with good beer pubs.The calico cupboard in Anacortes is a pleasnt lunch spot-great bread/pastries.On the advice of this n/g, I swung by Larry’s Market in Tutwilla,near Sea-Tac airport and picked up some great bottled beer to take home-Mirror Pond Ale,Viking Winterfest and what I consider the ultimate beverage-Obsidian Stout. The Marriott Courtyard near Sea-Tac has a nice restaurant which featured Mac and Jac’s African Amber at happy hour.M&J AA was once the rave out there but I have recently reac complaints and rumors that the recipe might have changed.I thought it a 3 out of 4.

Response:

Minor nits with the above. "Tutwilla" HAS to be Tuckwilla… it’s a spelling thing. Mirror Pond and Obsidian Stout are both part of the stellar product line-up of an Oregon state craft brewery– Deschutes Brewery located in Bend, Oregon rather than Seattle, Washington. Other than that, I suppose that Seattle has some decent brews. But, hey! If you’re that close– barely a 2 hour drive south –to Portland, Oregon… come on down and drink some REAL ales!!!!! — –DAsh obvious with attbi)

Response:

No trip down the I 5 corridor would be complete without a stop at Dicks Brewing at Centralia (midway between Seattle and Portland) Dick runs a deli and a brewery that is two minutes off the freeway. He has an amazing array of brews for a three man operation. I get the half case sample pack. His mainstay is Dick’s Danger Ale but I prefer some of his higher gravity seasonal brews myself. art

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was there a few weeks ago and went to Anacortes and Laconner-both lovely towns with good beer pubs.The calico cupboard in Anacortes is a pleasnt lunch spot-great bread/pastries.On the advice of this n/g, I swung by Larry’s Market in Tutwilla,near Sea-Tac airport and picked up some great bottled beer to take home-Mirror Pond Ale,Viking Winterfest and what I consider the ultimate beverage-Obsidian Stout. The Marriott Courtyard near Sea-Tac has a nice restaurant which featured Mac and Jac’s African Amber at happy hour.M&J AA was once the rave out there but I have recently reac complaints and rumors that the recipe might have changed.I thought it a 3 out of 4. Minor nits with the above. "Tutwilla" HAS to be Tuckwilla… it’s a spelling thing. Mirror Pond and Obsidian Stout are both part of the stellar product line-up of an Oregon state craft brewery– Deschutes Brewery located in Bend, Oregon rather than Seattle, Washington. Other than that, I suppose that Seattle has some decent brews. But, hey! If you’re that close– barely a 2 hour drive south –to Portland, Oregon… come on down and drink some REAL ales!!!!! — –DAsh obvious with attbi)

Response:

Tutwilla is Tukwilla…. :) While M&JAA is (was?) an excellent ale, I don’t get to drink it often enough with all the beer diversity around here. I’ve never seen another M&J beer anywhere. Wouldn’t that be a shame to change there primary offering? Mirror Pond is a great example of a PNW American Ale. I can’t believe I’ve never found time to go out to the Deshutes brewery. In all, Seattle has come a long way in the last four years to serve beers like those found down in Portland. The little guys are making their mark. The Redhooks, Pyramid’s and Pikes and falling back into the shadows. Seattle is still short on the specialty stuff like oak aged BW’s, etc. They’re there but are hard to find. Burp, -Dan

Response:

while In Seattle what are some need to see "BEER" attractions. M

Response:

Fish Brewing in Olympia, Elysian, Far West Ireland, LaConner, … geez, too many to list. Go to: http://www.washingtonbrewersguild.org/ . Don’t waste your time with Big Horn, Gordon Biersch, Redhook, Rock Bottom, or McMenamin’s. I went to LaConner for the first time last week. It’s about an hour north of Seattle in a nice little seasdide town. Very nice beers. A few excellent lagers on the list as well. There just aren’t enough breweries brewing lagers…yet. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – while In Seattle what are some need to see "BEER" attractions. M

Response:

I wouldn’t say don’t go to Redhook. If you go on a day when they are doing the bottling line then it can be pretty interesting. The beer isn’t great, but isn’t bad either, and you get a lot of it for the $2 tour fee (plus a small sampling glass). I’d add Bigtime, Hales (both of which have their brewing equipment exposed) and Pike Place to the list. Pike Place’s beers on tap are much different than what they sell in bottles (I believe the bottles are contract brewed). alex

Response:

There’s enough incredible beer in Seattle to not waste your time on beer that "isn’t bad. " If you want to see a brewery in operation, go to the Miller Brewing plant in Olympia. They’re all pretty much the same except for the size of the equipment. Well there is the difference in the samples at the end of the tour. That’s why I always recommend Widmer in Portland or Anchor in SF. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -sniP< The beer isn’t great, but isn’t bad either, alex

Response:

hard times again

admin — Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

sorry i’m in mourning for my local german bar closing. no more liters of fresh celebrator on tap sob/sob. between the post 9/11 hunkering down and a sputtering economy the nice restraunts and bars in my town have had a tough year. of course we have also had an invasion of the big chain places that everyone has to run off and try for a while, then they wonder what happened to their old favorite

Response:

Now that they are closed, perhaps you can get a recipe from them.

Response:

Now that they are closed, perhaps you can get a recipe from them.

Or brewing equipment. Pity, though, it’s always the good places that close. Scott

Response:

nope it wasn’t a brewpub, just a guy serving nothing but munich area beers ,served properly in a true german style. high rent didn’t help much either but he lasted 4 yeARS before this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now that they are closed, perhaps you can get a recipe from them. Or brewing equipment. Pity, though, it’s always the good places that close. Scott

Response:

You must be talking about Alt Munchen in Omaha’s Old Market. Great place. Fest tables from Munich. Huge Bavarian banners draped from the ceiling making for a tent-like atmosphere. Fest foods. Correct glassware for each style. Best brats in town IMHO. Best of all it was on my block, which was important on several 2-litre-Salvator occasions. Nicht mehr.

Response:

Boiling on a Barbecue?

admin — Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Heat output – more than your indoor stove, at least mine does. I often cook on it during the summer, and it boils water faster than my indoor stove. I also use it to boil my step up water during mash and it does a fine job on a gallon. But like others point out, it has no where near the output of a cajun cooker. weight – I’d prop it up somehow. Also your pot probably will not sit anywhere near centered on it. So it will be inherintly unstable. Go with the cajun cooker, you’ll never regret it. And you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it before. (get a spare tank)

Response:

Go with the cajun cooker, you’ll never regret it. And you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it before.

Yep, having done just a couple of batches on the cajun cooker so far, I am wondering myself. The only real downside I see so far is that it adds the "how likely are we to have nasty weather today" factor to the "can I brew today" equation. I intend to continue mashing in the kitchen though. (get a spare tank)

Yep, already done that. —

Response:

Good morning. I’m planning to make a batch this weekend, but the missus has effectively banished me from the kitchen. No one likes a boil-over, but it only took a week to chip off the malt-crust. Anyhow, I have your basic weekend warrior gas barbecue with a sideburner. Anyone had good/bad experience boiling 3-4 gallons on one of these? The local hardware store has the turkey cooker, but I’d rather just go with what I got.

Don’t (too much weight and not enough BTUs). Do get the turkey cooker with long legs (saves your back) and a spare gas bottle. Shop around and you might find one with the 30 qt pot which would be a useful addition to your brewing equipment. Bob Scott — Created & posted with Mozilla running on Linux. Certified Microsoft virus free!

Response:

Hi, There is not much more to be said than John has said already. Cheers, Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good morning. I’m planning to make a batch this weekend, but the missus has effectively banished me from the kitchen. No one likes a boil-over, but it only took a week to chip off the malt-crust. Anyhow, I have your basic weekend warrior gas barbecue with a sideburner. Anyone had good/bad experience boiling 3-4 gallons on one of these? The local hardware store has the turkey cooker, but I’d rather just go with what I got. Thanks, The Lake Stevens Brewing Guild

Response:

Anyhow, I have your basic weekend warrior gas barbecue with a sideburner. Anyone had good/bad experience boiling 3-4 gallons on one of these? The local hardware store has the turkey cooker, but I’d rather just go with what I got.

No way. The side burner on my grill took 10 minutes to bring two bottles of beer to a boil to boil brats. Not near enough BTUs. Get the cajun cooker, and another LP tank for those days that you run out of gas. Delta

Response:

I would have to agree with Delta on this one. Most BBQ grills use low pressure regulators and don’t have the output to do much more than warm things on the side burner. I know if I tried it on mine, I would have to take a break and go shave at least a couple of times before it would get that much water to a boil. Go with the high pressure burner and you will be forever glad that you did. HTH — Rich Bingham St Louis, Mo AKA 2fish on the RatChat www.home.earthlink.net/~ibrew4u

Response:

I don’t know the answers to these, but the two things I would look into are: 1) Does the BBQ put out enough heat to bring 3-4 gallons to a boil in a reasonable time? What’s the BTU of the side burner on your model, does it say? I’ve never used the side burner on my BBQ for anything before, so take this with a grain of salt, but I’ve heard that they’re not very powerful. 2) Will it take the weight of the pot (I assume you’re planning on using the side burner) without tipping the BBQ? 3-4 gallons of boiling hot liquid sitting on an unstable side burner would make me nervous. If it puts out enough heat and takes the weight of the pot, you should be fine using it. BTW, what’s nice about most turkey burners is that they satisfy both points above very well. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

Response:

Mead vs Arkansas

admin — Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ve tried to buy mead here in Arkansas at several different liquor stores and they’ve all told me it’s illeagle. Nobody seems to know why though. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Response:

I’ve tried to buy mead here in Arkansas at several different liquor stores and they’ve all told me it’s illeagle. Nobody seems to know why though. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I’d chalk it up to the state. Arkansas and Utah are the only two states in the union in which brewing beer remains illegal. I’m not surprised Arkansas has other cumbersome, backwards laws yet unrepealed.

Response:

The Home Brewery has a store in Fayetteville and they seem to sell a lot of brewing equipment and supplies. The good thing about the state is that they are forcing me to learn how to make my own mead. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve tried to buy mead here in Arkansas at several different liquor stores and they’ve all told me it’s illeagle. Nobody seems to know why though. Can anyone shed any light on this? I’d chalk it up to the state. Arkansas and Utah are the only two states in the union in which brewing beer remains illegal. I’m not surprised Arkansas has other cumbersome, backwards laws yet unrepealed.

Response:

The Home Brewery has a store in Fayetteville and they seem to sell a lot of brewing equipment and supplies. The good thing about the state is that they are forcing me to learn how to make my own mead. I’ve tried to buy mead here in Arkansas at several different liquor stores and they’ve all told me it’s illeagle. Nobody seems to know why though. Can anyone shed any light on this? I’d chalk it up to the state. Arkansas and Utah are the only two states in the union in which brewing beer remains illegal. I’m not surprised Arkansas has other cumbersome, backwards laws yet unrepealed.

Response:

A few quick all-grain questions

admin — Thu, 16 May 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Whatever, but my point was that by itself, the pH of your water supply is completely irrelevant and should be ignored. My water pH is 9.1, yet I can mash all pale malts without any acid or gypsum adjustments and the mash pH will drop to 5.2. I can then sparge without acidifying and the runoff pH won’t get above 5.6. So while my water pH appears high, it is very weakly buffered and so the high pH is of no consequence. Other’s have water with a much lower pH, but higher alkalinity that does require adjustments to keep in range during mash and sparge.

Now that is an excellent point, I haven’t ever thought of the buffering capacity (alkalinity) as being something to be concerned about. Of course I have not had problems either. Cheers, Mike

Response:

Consider that you may be worrying a bit here.

True, good excuse for another homebrew! Actually, I’m not so much worrying as I am doing what everyone else here is doing, killing time between brew days by talking brewing. I just found out my cooler conversion kit got backordered by another couple of days! Argh! Dan Listermann

Thanks Dan. -Kevin

Response:

Heh heh…right on, Dan. I’ve experiemented with ratios from 1:1 to 1.3:1 and found there to be no significant difference. I think that there is a difference at the extremes, but in the middle of the range it doesn’t matter as much.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article Kevin says… 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents…. I don’t claim to understand water chemistry very well, but you should realize that pH has little bearing on alkalinity. My water supply has very low alkalinity (25 mg/l), but has a pH of 9.1 ! I really can’t tell what your water supply is like, because it looks like there are 3 different treatment plants serving Denver. It looks like Moffat has very low alkalinity and hardness, while the other two are moderate. In any case, all of the plants appear to deliver water that is suitable for brewing, so I wouldn’t worry about it. If your supply isn’t from Moffat, you might want to check your runoff pH to make sure it isn’t getting above ~5.8, but I wouldn’t sweat it. I think he was saying his water pH is high, not that it had a high alkalinity. I also think he was speaking in terms of water with a lower than 7 pH being acidic, and above 7 being alkaline. But I could be wrong…

Response:

In article

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kevin says… 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents…. I don’t claim to understand water chemistry very well, but you should realize that pH has little bearing on alkalinity. My water supply has very low alkalinity (25 mg/l), but has a pH of 9.1 ! I really can’t tell what your water supply is like, because it looks like there are 3 different treatment plants serving Denver. It looks like Moffat has very low alkalinity and hardness, while the other two are moderate. In any case, all of the plants appear to deliver water that is suitable for brewing, so I wouldn’t worry about it. If your supply isn’t from Moffat, you might want to check your runoff pH to make sure it isn’t getting above ~5.8, but I wouldn’t sweat it.

I think he was saying his water pH is high, not that it had a high alkalinity. I also think he was speaking in terms of water with a lower than 7 pH being acidic, and above 7 being alkaline. But I could be wrong… Cheers, Mike

Response:

I haven’t seen anyone answer this one yet, so I’ll chip in: 1. What factors determine water:grain ratio for the mash? I’ve heard of people using everything from 1qt:1lb to 1.5qt:1lb. What effect does this have on the mash A thinner mash (more water) will produce a more fermentable wort. A thicker mash (less water) will produce a less fermentable wort. So expect a higher FG with a thicker mash. And also a sweeter, maltier beer.

Ok, so based on this advice, what is a good average ratio to shoot for, considering the style of beer I’m making (an IPA)? From everything I’ve seen I’ll probably go with 1.1qt/lb so that if I undershoot my mash temp I can safely add more water to get it to where I need it to be. Does this make sense? Oh, good luck!

Thanks! Regards, Dave.

-Kevin

Response:

Kevin says… 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents….

I don’t claim to understand water chemistry very well, but you should realize that pH has little bearing on alkalinity. My water supply has very low alkalinity (25 mg/l), but has a pH of 9.1 ! I really can’t tell what your water supply is like, because it looks like there are 3 different treatment plants serving Denver. It looks like Moffat has very low alkalinity and hardness, while the other two are moderate. In any case, all of the plants appear to deliver water that is suitable for brewing, so I wouldn’t worry about it. If your supply isn’t from Moffat, you might want to check your runoff pH to make sure it isn’t getting above ~5.8, but I wouldn’t sweat it.

Response:

I only do a crude measurement of strike water volume only to be sure that I have enough. Generally I divide the pounds of grist by four and add another gallon. I judge the texture of the mash to determine if I have enough water. I make it a thin gruel knowing that it will thicken as the mash progresses. Consider that you may be worrying a bit here. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t seen anyone answer this one yet, so I’ll chip in: 1. What factors determine water:grain ratio for the mash? I’ve heard of people using everything from 1qt:1lb to 1.5qt:1lb. What effect does this have on the mash A thinner mash (more water) will produce a more fermentable wort. A thicker mash (less water) will produce a less fermentable wort. So expect a higher FG with a thicker mash. And also a sweeter, maltier beer.

Does this make sense? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, good luck! Thanks! Regards, Dave. -Kevin

Response:

That is how I make my IPA’s when I do single-step infusion mashes. Go for it. — Success lies in achieving the top of the food chain. — Jubal Harshaw, 1904- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, so based on this advice, what is a good average ratio to shoot for, considering the style of beer I’m making (an IPA)? From everything I’ve seen I’ll probably go with 1.1qt/lb so that if I undershoot my mash temp I can safely add more water to get it to where I need it to be. Does this make sense? Oh, good luck! Thanks! Regards, Dave. -Kevin

Response:

Howdy Kevin, Here’s a little bit on mash water quantities. Enzyme activity is aparently influenced by the mash thickness in a manner that is conducive to step mashes. In other words, the lower temp mash rests work better with thicker mashes and the higher temp rests need thinner mashes. If you do a protein rest to start, you could use as little as .9 quarts per pound of grist, but at saccharification temperatures, you need at least 1.1 quarts, but not much more than 1.5 quarts of water per lb. The amylase enzymes can be diluted in thinner mashes, causing a less than optimum conversion. -Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to prep myself for when my all-grain stuff finally arrives, and there are a few points I need clarification on: 1. What factors determine water:grain ratio for the mash? I’ve heard of people using everything from 1qt:1lb to 1.5qt:1lb. What effect does this have on the mash, and what should I use for my first attempt at all grain (I’m gonna take the hop plunge and brew up some SSOS)? 2. For those of you who use a 10 gallon gott cooler mash tun, what’s a good stike temp to aim for? I’m going to mash at 153 degrees, and Miller suggests shooting for 11 degrees higher to determine your strike, but I’m wondering if someone with the same setup can give me some equipment-specific guidelines. 3. With regards to batch sparging.. If I understand the process correctly, once I’m done running off my second batch (which will bring the total amount of sparged liquor up to my pre-boil wort volume), the gravity of my combined runoff should equal my targetted pre-boil gravity. Is this correct? 4. I’m planning on doing a single infusion mash at 153 degrees for one hour. Would it be markedly beneficial for me to do any sort of rest at another temperature as well? I’ve heard of protein rests and mash-outs and such, and I’m wondering if any of these are necessary or desirable to produce my desired beer (a very hoppy IPA). 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time, and will I need to be concerned with this? 6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless. 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents…. That’s all I can think of for right now. I’m sure I’ll be pestering the group with some frantic questions once I actually start the process. Thanks in advance for any help. -Kevin

Response:

Well said, Kevin. Up to 30% or so DME is undetectable, is convenient, is easy to have on hand when needed. And no stigma my eyes either.

Response:

A thinner mash (more water) will produce a more fermentable wort. A thicker mash (less water) will produce a less fermentable wort. So expect a higher FG with a thicker mash. And also a sweeter, maltier beer. And WRT: 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time

I guess this is because you are alledged to get more foam (read bigger, nastier boilover) with AG than extract. Personally, I dispute this but thats another matter. You should wait until nearly all the foam has subsided before making your first hop addition (and starting the timer on that 60 minute boil). So in effect you could be boiling for an extra 15 mins while you wait for the foam to subside. Turn the heat down as the wort reaches a boil. Turn it down so there is enough heat to keep the wort boiling but it probably doesn’t need to be full blast to achieve this. Keeping it high will keep the wort foaming. Oh, good luck! Regards, Dave.

Response:

Which leads me to another questions, what does the term ‘fully modified’ mean with respect to grain?

It is the length the acrospire has grown up the kernel. The full length would be 100%. Why would a maltster create a grain which isn’t fully modified?

In most cases they would not. The only undermodified base grain to my knowledge is the moravian, and I have read where the thought is that they do not intentionally undermodify it, it just will not modify completely. Cheers, Mike

Response:

6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless. Skip the DME. This is an AG brew, not a partial mash. If you miss the pre-boil gravity too low, boil longer, too high, boil shorter or add some water to the finished brew.

All grain for me is only a vehicle for exploring this hobby more and producing better beer, not to impress anyone. If I have to add some DME to get my gravity up to what I want it, I have no qualms in doing so (at least for my first batch, long term is another thing). I’d rather have 5 gallons of awesome beer than 4 gallons, and "partial mash" is not a stigma in my eyes. Anyway, I think I’ve got a pretty good handle on the process now, so I’d be pretty surprised if my efficiency is much below 65% for this first try. The DME is only for an emergency, like I said above. Cheers, Mike

Thanks for the response. -Kevin

Response:

Greetings: I’ve read this in several places too (Brew Your Own for one). Basically, if you don’t wait until your proteins have coagulated (the hot break) they envelope the hop oils. This reduces your hop utilization. You can avoid this "problem" by bringing your wort to a boil for 15 minutes before adding the hops. This is why I usually end up doing 75 minute boils. I’m not sure what is cheaper, 1/2 ounce of hops or 15 minutes on the stove. That choice is yours. Personally, I like to boil my wort as long as possible to let the smell of boiling wort really impregnate my apartment building. Mark A. Fox

Response:

I’ve used 1.1/lb to 1.25/lb. I think most use around 1.25. I don’t know what the heck the difference is, but I know 1.25 ended up kinda soupy. I’ll probably shoot for 1.2 next round. 2. For those of you who use a 10 gallon gott cooler mash tun, what’s a good stike temp to aim for? I’m going to mash at 153 degrees, and Miller suggests shooting for 11 degrees higher to determine your strike, but I’m wondering if someone with the same setup can give me some equipment-specific guidelines.

I have a 15.5 converted keg for my kettle and use the 10gal gott. In my setup, within 55* weather, I had to heat the water up to 190, cause I was losing 20* just in transferring from kettle to gott. I also lost another 5* when adding the grain. Don’t kow why, cause I tested the temp of the grain and inputted it into promash, but o’well, I know what happens now! Test your setup first to see what sort of loss you get from the transfer, then add that to your 11. I had about a gal or 2 left in my kettle, and luckily I did because I was hitting below 150, and had to heat more water up to hit my 154. I would say to error high on your calculations… it’s easier to add a couple cups of cold water to bring it down. 3. With regards to batch sparging.. If I understand the process correctly, once I’m done running off my second batch (which will bring the total amount of sparged liquor up to my pre-boil wort volume), the gravity of my combined runoff should equal my targetted pre-boil gravity. Is this correct?

Haven’t done batch spargin..ain’t even going to attempt answering this one 4. I’m planning on doing a single infusion mash at 153 degrees for one hour. Would it be markedly beneficial for me to do any sort of rest at another temperature as well? I’ve heard of protein rests and mash-outs and such, and I’m wondering if any of these are necessary or desirable to produce my desired beer (a very hoppy IPA).

Necessary? No. 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time, and will I need to be concerned with this?

I’ve been doing 60min or sometimes, 90 min boils. I believe the extra boil time will give you a carmel type flavor in your brew.. 6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless.

Good idea on the DME. I think 70 is obtainable. 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents….

It’s up to you. My LHBS guy told me once "you like my beer"…. "yea"…."i’ve never even taken a ph reading." All of his brews are pretty darn good. So since then, I haven’t bothered checking mine. But, it is up to you on how you want to approach it. If I didn’t hear that from my LHBS guy, I would be checkig it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I can think of for right now. I’m sure I’ll be pestering the group with some frantic questions once I actually start the process. Thanks in advance for any help. -Kevin

Response:

If you’re using a fully modified grain, there is no reason to do anything other than a single step infusion mash. Keep it simple.

Which leads me to another questions, what does the term ‘fully modified’ mean with respect to grain? Why would a maltster create a grain which isn’t fully modified? I’ve never done batch sparging (gonna try it next batch). My extraction rate has been 75% since my first batch whenever I follow my regular procedures (test batches don’t count!). From what I’ve read, generally speaking you drop 10-20% with batch sparging (which doesn’t make sense to me). Sounds like its very important to stir the mash after the two water additions to help disolve the sugars.

From all the digging I’ve done, I haven’t seen anywhere near a 20% drop in efficiency with batch sparging. Most people who’ve tried it say their efficiency is anywhere form the mid 70 to the low 80’s, so depending on what you’re getting now, it’s probably not too much of a drop. Mike

Thanks -Kevin

Response:

It looks like you are well under control with a pretty good understanding of the process & you have some great responses so far. I personally use a low ratio, 1 liter per lb (1.06:1) I prefer the thicker mash & it saves me some space. With a 10 gallon cooler, you don’t have those same concerns. I’d guess that you’ll get in the ballpark with an 11 degree higher temperature assuming somewhere in the neighbourhood of a 1.25:1 water to grain ratio, and assuming you preheat your cooler. (I personally use water at 170F – with the smaller amount of water due to my low water to grain ratio & heat loss due to my crappy cheapo system, it works for me) You might want to make sure you have some additional hot and cold water handy for temperature adjustments, but don’t panic right from the beginning – it takes a minute or two to stabilize. Make sure you stir well. The only thing you can do to ruin this day will be to overshoot the mash temperature by too much for too long – this is basically a mashout & will destroy the enzymes that are supposed to convert the starches into sugars. Keep it under 160F or so. Your thermometer is somewhat close to accurate, right? You may find that you can run off too much liquid, thus requiring you to boil longer in order to reach your required volume. You may also find that you didn’t run off enough & then don’t have enough volume. Or you may be boiling too vigorously. It’s a balancing act, but no big deal. You’ll get a feel for the amount of liquid you lose to evaporation after a batch or two. You can play around with step mashing if you want, but I don’t think it’s required in an IPA. Save that extra step for another day. It’s not hard to do at all, but you have lots of stuff to remember as it is. I think you’ll have no problem reaching 70% efficiency with your system, provided your malt is properly crushed. Be prepared to hit 75 or 80% as well as 65%. Regarding pH adjustment, many brewers make excellent beer without bothering to adjust the water. I live in Calgary, also just east of the rockies & our water looks to be similar to yours. I have only just recently bothered to adjust the pH of my sparge water, but it really isn’t necessary. There are many factors that will have a larger impact on your beer than worrying about this. The all grain brewing process has many many details that can SLIGHTLY affect the final outcome of your beer. With experience you will be able to tweak these little idiosyncrasies to suit the style of beer you are making & the particulars of your own brewing equipment. Don’t worry about it, just brew. You’ll do fine. Kelvin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to prep myself for when my all-grain stuff finally arrives, and there are a few points I need clarification on: 1. What factors determine water:grain ratio for the mash? I’ve heard of people using everything from 1qt:1lb to 1.5qt:1lb. What effect does this have on the mash, and what should I use for my first attempt at all grain (I’m gonna take the hop plunge and brew up some SSOS)? 2. For those of you who use a 10 gallon gott cooler mash tun, what’s a good stike temp to aim for? I’m going to mash at 153 degrees, and Miller suggests shooting for 11 degrees higher to determine your strike, but I’m wondering if someone with the same setup can give me some equipment-specific guidelines. 3. With regards to batch sparging.. If I understand the process correctly, once I’m done running off my second batch (which will bring the total amount of sparged liquor up to my pre-boil wort volume), the gravity of my combined runoff should equal my targetted pre-boil gravity. Is this correct? 4. I’m planning on doing a single infusion mash at 153 degrees for one hour. Would it be markedly beneficial for me to do any sort of rest at another temperature as well? I’ve heard of protein rests and mash-outs and such, and I’m wondering if any of these are necessary or desirable to produce my desired beer (a very hoppy IPA). 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time, and will I need to be concerned with this? 6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless. 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents…. That’s all I can think of for right now. I’m sure I’ll be pestering the group with some frantic questions once I actually start the process. Thanks in advance for any help. -Kevin

Response:

Most people panic and add hot water, then cold water, then hot water, and then have the temp right on their first AG. I suggest you start at 1.1 qt/lb. Stir for at least 3 min before worrying about the exact temp. Get every single lump out. 2. For those of you who use a 10 gallon gott cooler mash tun, what’s a good stike temp to aim for? I’m going to mash at 153 degrees, and Miller suggests shooting for 11 degrees higher to determine your strike, but I’m wondering if someone with the same setup can give me some equipment-specific guidelines.

10-12 deg sounds good. Preheat the mash tun before you begin to mash. What I found was 170F water and cold grain (ambient) and lots of initial stirring brought it a little high and I could add cold water of ice cubes to hit the exact temp. 3. With regards to batch sparging.. If I understand the process correctly, once I’m done running off my second batch (which will bring the total amount of sparged liquor up to my pre-boil wort volume), the gravity of my combined runoff should equal my targetted pre-boil gravity. Is this correct?

I’ll leave this one to the batch sparge guys… 4. I’m planning on doing a single infusion mash at 153 degrees for one hour. Would it be markedly beneficial for me to do any sort of rest at another temperature as well? I’ve heard of protein rests and mash-outs and such, and I’m wondering if any of these are necessary or desirable to produce my desired beer (a very hoppy IPA).

Not really on an IPA. The only other temp I would do is mash out, but that is of debateable usefulness. 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time, and will I need to be concerned with this?

The AG boil time is mainly to reduce the volume from the sparge. The bittering hops are added after the break which IME can take a little longer to finish than in an extract brew. I no longer boil for a specific amount of time, I boil always for greater than 65 min, and I do so for evaporation. I adjust my boil length to evaporate the amount of water to hit my desired OG post boil. 6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless.

Skip the DME. This is an AG brew, not a partial mash. If you miss the pre-boil gravity too low, boil longer, too high, boil shorter or add some water to the finished brew. 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents….

I agree with the comment to add some gypsum to the sparge water. With BS it is not much of a concern, but gypsum will help accentuate the hops, and it is an IPA. Cheers, Mike

Response:

Mike, I’ve always added hops at the beginning of the boil…why do you add them after the break? -Bill — Success lies in achieving the top of the food chain. — Jubal Harshaw, 1904-

Response:

I use 1.1 and it gives a nice consistency to the mash. I forget where I read it, but a soupier mash will lead to poorer extraction. Something about the sugar molecules and enzymes being too seperated, and not being able to work together. I once did a 5 gallon test batch and put enough water for a 10 gallon batch. Much lower extraction. 2. For those of you who use a 10 gallon gott cooler mash tun, what’s a good stike temp to aim for? I’m going to mash at 153 degrees, and Miller suggests shooting for 11 degrees higher to determine your strike, but I’m wondering if someone with the same setup can give me some equipment-specific guidelines.

Pre-heat your cooler with hot tap water, then go 10-12 degrees over your mash temp. Also, I keep my crushed grains in my house so they’ll be as close to 70 degrees as possible. I don’t take them outside for my brewing until just before they’re needed. 3. With regards to batch sparging.. If I understand the process correctly, once I’m done running off my second batch (which will bring the total amount of sparged liquor up to my pre-boil wort volume), the gravity of my combined runoff should equal my targetted pre-boil gravity. Is this correct?

Yep 4. I’m planning on doing a single infusion mash at 153 degrees for one hour. Would it be markedly beneficial for me to do any sort of rest at another temperature as well? I’ve heard of protein rests and mash-outs and such, and I’m wondering if any of these are necessary or desirable to produce my desired beer (a very hoppy IPA).

If you’re using a fully modified grain, there is no reason to do anything other than a single step infusion mash. Keep it simple. 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time, and will I need to be concerned with this?

You’d only want to do a boil longer than 60 mins if you were looking for more hop extraction (I’d just buy more hops) or if your wort was too thin and you needed to increase the SG. 6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless.

I’ve never done batch sparging (gonna try it next batch). My extraction rate has been 75% since my first batch whenever I follow my regular procedures (test batches don’t count!). From what I’ve read, generally speaking you drop 10-20% with batch sparging (which doesn’t make sense to me). Sounds like its very important to stir the mash after the two water additions to help disolve the sugars. 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents….

I wouldn’t sweat pH just yet. Consider talking to your LHBS and finding out what they recommend. Chances are, they’ve already done the calculations. Good luck and enjoy. Mike

Response:

I’ve always added hops at the beginning of the boil…why do you add them after the break?

Habit, and something I read somewhere about the break compounds and hop compounds. I cannot recall the exact source or comment, but it boiled down to waiting until after the break for hopping to avoid harshness. I guess the outlier to that would be FWH. Cheers, Mike

Response:

I’m trying to prep myself for when my all-grain stuff finally arrives, and there are a few points I need clarification on: 1. What factors determine water:grain ratio for the mash? I’ve heard of people using everything from 1qt:1lb to 1.5qt:1lb. What effect does this have on the mash, and what should I use for my first attempt at all grain (I’m gonna take the hop plunge and brew up some SSOS)? 2. For those of you who use a 10 gallon gott cooler mash tun, what’s a good stike temp to aim for? I’m going to mash at 153 degrees, and Miller suggests shooting for 11 degrees higher to determine your strike, but I’m wondering if someone with the same setup can give me some equipment-specific guidelines. 3. With regards to batch sparging.. If I understand the process correctly, once I’m done running off my second batch (which will bring the total amount of sparged liquor up to my pre-boil wort volume), the gravity of my combined runoff should equal my targetted pre-boil gravity. Is this correct? 4. I’m planning on doing a single infusion mash at 153 degrees for one hour. Would it be markedly beneficial for me to do any sort of rest at another temperature as well? I’ve heard of protein rests and mash-outs and such, and I’m wondering if any of these are necessary or desirable to produce my desired beer (a very hoppy IPA). 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time, and will I need to be concerned with this? 6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless. 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents…. That’s all I can think of for right now. I’m sure I’ll be pestering the group with some frantic questions once I actually start the process. Thanks in advance for any help. -Kevin

Response:

1) You want enough water to dissolve the starches and enzymes, so they can happily mix together and convert the starches to sugar. Too thick of a mash will interfere with this so you are better off erring on the thin side (a little more water). On a practical side, when I did single-step infusion mashes I’d strike with using 1.1 quarts/lb and aim for a slightly lower temperature than my target. Then I’d add hot water until I reached my target temperature. Maybe someone with more chemistry knowledge than I have can add some more information here.. 2) I use the 10-gallon Gott. I found a strike temp of 10-12 degrees higher would get me in the ballpark, but there was a big variable which I had no control over: ambient temp of the grain and cooler could be anywhere from 55-70 degrees since I brew in my garage and don’t have any control over the heat in there. Originally I’d aim for a slightly lower temperature and then add boiling water until I hit my target. Later on I built a simple HERMS system using a wort chiller in HLT to give me better control over the mash temperature. 3) That is correct for any sparging. Just remember to take into account the water absorbtion due to the grain, and the overall efficiency of your system. I do a mashout first (raise mash temperatures to 170 degrees for 10 minutes) and then do the 2 rounds of batch sparge and find it helps with efficiency. 4) I used to do single-step infusion mash for my IPA’s and they came out fine. When I built my HERMS I added a protein rest at 125 degrees and a mashout at 170 degrees. The protein rest has helped with chill haze and the mashout helped with my efficiency. 5) The only reason I’ve seen for the longer boils is to increase the hop extraction. Maybe someone else can add more useful information. I just boil for 60 minutes since that last half hour gets you maybe 10% more hop extraction. 6) I’d assume 60% efficiency the first time around, then add water to get to your target gravity if you need to. There’s nothing wrong with adding the DME but its kind of cheating on the AG part 7) For your first AG I’d just add a couple of tbsp of gypsum to the water in HLT and then RDWHAHB. The gypsum will lower the pH. In the longer term you should worry more about the pH of your mash than the pH of your water (although they are related). You can get some pH strips cheap at LHBS to measure mash pH; it should be 4-5.5. pH above 5.5 will give erratic results, and probably less efficiency. You can add a couple of drops of lactic acid to adjust the pH if you want. Also yeast like a mildly acidic environment and a high mash pH will also give you a high wort pH. Hope this helps; Good luck with your first AG! — Success lies in achieving the top of the food chain. — Jubal Harshaw, 1904-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to prep myself for when my all-grain stuff finally arrives, and there are a few points I need clarification on: 1. What factors determine water:grain ratio for the mash? I’ve heard of people using everything from 1qt:1lb to 1.5qt:1lb. What effect does this have on the mash, and what should I use for my first attempt at all grain (I’m gonna take the hop plunge and brew up some SSOS)? 2. For those of you who use a 10 gallon gott cooler mash tun, what’s a good stike temp to aim for? I’m going to mash at 153 degrees, and Miller suggests shooting for 11 degrees higher to determine your strike, but I’m wondering if someone with the same setup can give me some equipment-specific guidelines. 3. With regards to batch sparging.. If I understand the process correctly, once I’m done running off my second batch (which will bring the total amount of sparged liquor up to my pre-boil wort volume), the gravity of my combined runoff should equal my targetted pre-boil gravity. Is this correct? 4. I’m planning on doing a single infusion mash at 153 degrees for one hour. Would it be markedly beneficial for me to do any sort of rest at another temperature as well? I’ve heard of protein rests and mash-outs and such, and I’m wondering if any of these are necessary or desirable to produce my desired beer (a very hoppy IPA). 5. I’ve heard that an all-grain boil sometimes takes 90-120 minutes to perform, as compared to the 60 minute standard for extract batches. What is the purpose of the extra boil time, and will I need to be concerned with this? 6. I’m using 70% as my targetted efficiency for this first batch. Promash tells me I can hit 65% and still be within the gravity range for my recipe. Is this assumption overly optimistic for a 2 batch sparge using a gott cooler with T-shaped bazooka screen? I figure I’ll buy 1lb of DME to add to my wort at boil time, just in case of emergency regardless. 7. For my first attempt at all-grain, should I worry too much about all the water variables (pH, hardness, etc)? I’ve heard that with batch sparging, pH of the mash is somehow less important than with fly sparging, but I don’t claim to understand why. I’m dealing with Denver water here, which I believe is fairly alkaline (8.? pH), but I don’t know much about it beyond that. For the ambitious, I believe all the information I need is available here: http://www.water.denver.co.gov/waterquality/Treated_Reprt01/contents…. That’s all I can think of for right now. I’m sure I’ll be pestering the group with some frantic questions once I actually start the process. Thanks in advance for any help. -Kevin

Response:

Anyone use alcohol as a disinfectant?

admin — Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I use everclear to disinfect my equipment.

I couldn’t use Everclear. I used to drink that stuff in High School mixed with Mountain Dew or Kool Aid. That was almost 20 years ago and the smell still causes horrible flashbacks. It sure was a cheap way to puke your guts up, though

Response:

I use everclear to disinfect my equipment. I couldn’t use Everclear. I used to drink that stuff in High School mixed with Mountain Dew or Kool Aid. That was almost 20 years ago and the smell still causes horrible flashbacks. It sure was a cheap way to puke your guts up, though

Ahh, memories of Preakness infields… In a clean plastic gallon milk jug, 2 liters 7-UP, 2 pints Everclear, 1 jar of maraschino cherries including syrup. Pink God.

Response:

posted in rec.crafts.brewing: I use alcohol wipes (designed for pre-injection disinfecting) for cleaning the scissors and yeast package before I open the yeast. I figure, if it gets skin clean enough for an injection

I seem to recall a study that showed that all alcohol swabbing did was move the bacteria around. — [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al – rukbat at optonline dot net

Response:

Al Pure alcohol maybe, but 70% alcohol is a potent contact killer for most bugs. 100% alcohol isn’t easily able to penetrate the cell walls and they kind of pucker up, feel damaged, but are still viable (especially spores). 70% alcohol contains enough water to assist transport into the cells and denature the protein (insert maniacal laughter here). Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to recall a study that showed that all alcohol swabbing did was move the bacteria around. — [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al – rukbat at optonline dot net

Response:

I use everclear to disinfect my equipment. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve always used B-brite or bleach to disinfect my brewing equipment, but the other day it dawned on me that using alcohol might be a more effective agent- and certainly cheaper than B-brite. It wouldn’t have any cleaning ability, but it seems like it might be a nice thing for a paranoid person like myself to use on spoons, hydrometers, etc. before dunking in the wort. Any comments? tiberius

Response:

I use everclear to disinfect my equipment.

That is an expensive way to go… Cheers, Mike

Response:

I’ve always used B-brite or bleach to disinfect my brewing equipment, but the other day it dawned on me that using alcohol might be a more effective agent- and certainly cheaper than B-brite. It wouldn’t have any cleaning ability, but it seems like it might be a nice thing for a paranoid person like myself to use on spoons, hydrometers, etc. before dunking in the wort. Any comments?

I use rubbing alcohol on rubber parts sometimes, as bleach is kind of harsh on rubber. But mostly I use bleach. –arne DISCLAIMER: These opinions and statements are those of the author and do not represent any views or positions of the Hewlett-Packard Co. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tiberius

Response:

We use 85% ethanol at work for disinfecting many surfaces contaminated with viruses and or bacteria. IIRC, the contact time for ethanol is not that short (10 min?) but I generally spray it on, and let it evaporate. I also seem to remember that 70-85% is more effective than both higher and lower concentrations. HTH, Brian P.

Response:

I use alcohol wipes (designed for pre-injection disinfecting) for cleaning the scissors and yeast package before I open the yeast. I figure, if it gets skin clean enough for an injection, it might almost do for keeping the yeasties safe. Scott

Response:

I use discarded Jelly’s, Jam’s and other sweets to distill my own disinfectant. It’s not legally consumable and its a a couple of proof shy of everclear, but it works like a charm! I even had to use it to purify a couple of bottles that weren’t ready yet when I ran short during bottling. This stuff cleans windows, kills bugs, and will get you drunk as heck!! I’m thinking of quitting beer and just make ‘cleaner’. It all started at my kids’ school, when I was helping the faculty dispose of unused items. The bilogy lab had beakers, flasks and several 36" lengths of glass tubing that they didnt want…. I used a propane torch to fashion thee into coils, and used rubber tubing to connect the joints.. Distillation is a piece of cake!! I’m drinking a glass of my "cleaner" now!! I forget the original point , but who cares? DSAF

Response:

No joke? I fired up a distillary I used as a kid about a year ago, and I made a Southern Blended Whiskey style ‘cleaner’ out of (I sh!t you not) pre-mixed Smuckers Peanut Butter and Jelly! It was a bit tough to distill, but Dixie (my still) handled it. The resulting product was tasty after onlyh six days and cleaned well, but wasn’t as effective against an ant colony around my stove. To fix that I gathered condensation from a raid fogger, which is safe to humans and animals, and d*mn if Dixie didn’t distill me up the perfect liquid. Cheerios! (the real) Zaq

Response:

Yes, I use it regularly as a swab, a spray for inside of taps and for small instruments. Like you say, it doesn’t clean anything, but it’s a good preventative measure at the last minute. Best disinfection comes from 70% alcohol (about 140 proof). It’s a standard procedure for many microbiological applications. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve always used B-brite or bleach to disinfect my brewing equipment, but the other day it dawned on me that using alcohol might be a more effective agent- and certainly cheaper than B-brite. It wouldn’t have any cleaning ability, but it seems like it might be a nice thing for a paranoid person like myself to use on spoons, hydrometers, etc. before dunking in the wort. Any comments? tiberius

Response:

I keep a plastic spray bottle full of isopropyl alcohol. I spray alcohol around the rim of carboys before I remove the bung, the rims of mason jars before transferring slurries of yeast. Anything that’s been sitting around that I cannot disinfect with iodophor solution but can potentially infect the wort/beer. John