Brewing Master

Question:

Scott, Had the same problem, 48 hrs, before bubbles.  Still am not sure why but the beer (3.5 ABV light Ale), turned out excellant…. Ed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am now at about 25+ hours since pitching the yeast and I haven’t gotten a single bubble out of the airlock yet.  This was my first time using this crappy yeast, as I usually use Coopers and it has always taken off in a matter of a couple hours.  I usually brew in the evening, and every other batch (this is # 10) has been bubbling nicely when I got up in the morning. Is this normal for this yeast?  Also, how long is the wort going to keep at about 60-65 degrees? The only thing I know for sure is that I am never going to use this yeast again, and I am going to suggest that my local shop pull it from the shelves. Sorry for the rant but if I end up having to dump this batch I am going to be really bummed. Scott

Response:

I agree, Back in Dec. I brewed a batch of pale ale  O.G. 1.054 using Whitbread Ale Yeast. 50 hrs. later it had just started to burp in the airlock. I did rehydrate and pitched at 70 deg. F. Temp in fermenter gradually fell to 65 deg. F. during the long lag time. Results were I had to dump the full 5 gal. of brew. That was my 1st and only infected batch of brew. I hope your brew turns out o.k. Seems others have also been experiencing long lag times using this yeast as well. Best Of Luck To Ya James Payne – Master Brewer Of The Payne Household

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I’m yet another case of the whitbread yeast taking forever to get started. i used it recently for a batch of beer that turned out fine, and for a batch of cider that turned out vinegar.  My theory is that since i started with raw (unpastuerized) cider, the long lag time on getting the damn yeast going allowed the undesirables naturally present in the cider to get a head start. 5 gallons of vinegar, at $4 a gallon.  :( Next time I make a smaller batch of cider. Question:  i thought that using pasteurized cider would be bad since all the pasteurized stuff i saw in the stores also included preservatives of some sort.  Can anyone with any experience comment? danno — dan pritts ans systems engineering, ann arbor, mi uunet worldcom 734-214-7409

Response:

Pasteurized cider is fine, but some people say they can taste a cooked quality to it. Preservatives are bad. Don’t even try to ferment something with preservatives. It can be done, but it is frustrating as *&^%. Good luck, Dan Cole

Response:

Once and for a while, everything sucks; However, you ought not to take the reality as it is, but as if it lived in your heart or dreams. If this does not help, suck in return in order not to be sucked. Finally, I warmly recommend a book "Small-Scale Brewing" to you. I have written the book and I guarantee that it is outstanding, a precision arm from good old Europe aimed against the U.S. fucking rubbish harping the exhaustive nonsense rhymes over and over again. On the other hand, It was only last week I read in a (U.S.) magazine that nearly 20% of U.S. citizens are illiterate… What to say about a culture with glorious traditions of 200 years, and two devastating wars down here in Europe. amply malty regards, IS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m yet another case of the whitbread yeast taking forever to get started. i used it recently for a batch of beer that turned out fine, and for a batch of cider that turned out vinegar.  My theory is that since i started with raw (unpastuerized) cider, the long lag time on getting the damn yeast going allowed the undesirables naturally present in the cider to get a head start. 5 gallons of vinegar, at $4 a gallon.  :( Next time I make a smaller batch of cider. Question:  i thought that using pasteurized cider would be bad since all the pasteurized stuff i saw in the stores also included preservatives of some sort.  Can anyone with any experience comment? danno — dan pritts ans systems engineering, ann arbor, mi uunet worldcom 734-214-7409

Response:

This is perhaps the strangest post I’ve ever read on RCB.  Definitely an entry for the hall of shame. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once and for a while, everything sucks; However, you ought not to take the reality as it is, but as if it lived in your heart or dreams. If this does not help, suck in return in order not to be sucked. Finally, I warmly recommend a book "Small-Scale Brewing" to you. I have written the book and I guarantee that it is outstanding, a precision arm from good old Europe aimed against the U.S. fucking rubbish harping the exhaustive nonsense rhymes over and over again. On the other hand, It was only last week I read in a (U.S.) magazine that nearly 20% of U.S. citizens are illiterate… What to say about a culture with glorious traditions of 200 years, and two devastating wars down here in Europe. amply malty regards,

– Drew Avis, Calgary, Alberta | Beer is good for you Visit my "Cheap is Good Brewery" and "Who’s Who on RCB": http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/5543/

Response:

Ilkka, What a load of babble-speak! You must have some pretty potent wild mushrooms growing there in Finland but, you really should quit using them in your beer. They’re messing with your head. As far as your "warmly recommended" book, you just guaranteed that I’ll never buy it and, I’ll bet I’m not alone. p.s. I’m not even a US citizen. Cheers, Ross Reid, Ontario, Canada. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once and for a while, everything sucks; However, you ought not to take the reality as it is, but as if it lived in your heart or dreams. If this does not help, suck in return in order not to be sucked. Finally, I warmly recommend a book "Small-Scale Brewing" to you. I have written the book and I guarantee that it is outstanding, a precision arm from good old Europe aimed against the U.S. fucking rubbish harping the exhaustive nonsense rhymes over and over again. On the other hand, It was only last week I read in a (U.S.) magazine that nearly 20% of U.S. citizens are illiterate… What to say about a culture with glorious traditions of 200 years, and two devastating wars down here in Europe. amply malty regards, IS

Response:

snip” I warmly recommend a book "Small-Scale Brewing" to you. I have written the book and I guarantee that it is outstanding, a precision arm from good old Europe aimed against the U.S. fucking rubbish harping the exhaustive nonsense rhymes over and over again."

Some are repetitive…..  On the other hand, It was only last week I read in a (U.S.) magazine that nearly 20% of U.S. citizens are illiterate…

Oh then it must be true…. What to say about a culture with glorious traditions of 200 years, and two devastating wars down here in Europe.

Well you could start with "thank you for bailing our asses out". of course if it makes you feel better we could add on a couple hundred years of sweeping up reindeer shit and call it culture…..

Response:

<SNIP not to be sucked. Finally, I warmly recommend a book "Small-Scale Brewing" to you. I have written the book and I guarantee that it is outstanding, a precision arm from good old Europe aimed against the U.S. fucking rubbish harping the exhaustive nonsense rhymes over and over again. <SNIP

That just insured a non-order of this book, no matter how good it may be, by me.  Totally unecessary comment IMNSHO. — heubs Spammers forced me into this. Replace "spamless" with " wf " to respond.

Response:

Finally, I warmly recommend a book "Small-Scale Brewing" to you. I have written the book and I guarantee that it is outstanding, a precision arm from good old Europe aimed against the U.S. fucking rubbish harping the exhaustive nonsense rhymes over and over again. On the other hand, It was only last week I read in a (U.S.) magazine that nearly 20% of U.S. citizens are illiterate..

All I have to say on the above quote is thank you very much for putting it that way!!! I just so happen to be one of those so called  illiterate Americans (Finnish American, so take that I.S.) who definately won’t WASTE my money on some trash from an author who is incosiderate enough to put it that way.  You certainly are shutting out a whole lot of people by lumping them into a group like that.  Even though you are trying to reference one other author’s work, there is no need to slam the rest of the potential buying population of your book.  So what if C.P. uses his "nonsense rhymes".  At least he is interested in getting people into homebrewing without being inhibited by it instead of touting himself as the almighty power and ultimate knowledge of homebrewing.  I don’t know anything about your book, but from some of the info I have read here on this ng I was thinking about buying it. Now, I’ll buy ‘MERICAN!!!

Response:

I recently used Whitbread Ale yeast for the first time (mine was the double-sized pack) — has about twice as much yeast in it compared to the "normal-sized" packs of yeast.  I did not re-hydrate before pitching, but with the additional yeast amount, I expected quicker activity. For the first 24 hours, I had it in my basement at 60 degrees.  No activity. For the second 24 hours, I had it upstairs, average temp of about 68 degrees. No activity (I know my seals were good because I could push on the lid of the bucket and displace the Vodka in the air lock).  For the third 24 hours, I cranked the furnace up to 73 degrees.  (My wife was pissed when she realized that I’d crank the heat for my beer, but won’t let her turn it up when she’s cold.)  After the third 24 hours (72 hours total), I popped off the lid to re-pitch some Danstar yeast, and there was a good 1/2 inch of fine white krausening.  So I put the lid back on, gave the bucket about 10 ’swirls’, during which the airlock burped for about 10 seconds straight.  After the agitation, I had good air lock activity. I am now at about 25+ hours since pitching the yeast and I haven’t gotten a single bubble out of the airlock yet.  This was my first time using this crappy yeast, as I usually use Coopers and it has always taken off in a matter of a couple hours.  I usually brew in the evening, and every other batch (this is # 10) has been bubbling nicely when I got up in the morning. Is this normal for this yeast?  Also, how long is the wort going to keep at about 60-65 degrees? The only thing I know for sure is that I am never going to use this yeast again, and I am going to suggest that my local shop pull it from the shelves.

– Terry Braun             http://www.eng.uiowa.edu/~tabraun relativistic mass m = mo/sqrt(1-(u^2/c^2))

Response:

Well, sounds like everything turned out okay in the end, but read the package (or get the info if it’s not there). Whitbread recommends at LEAST 65, and as high as 72 for this yeast, so starting it at 60 is going to give you a long lag time regardless. I’ve used it many times (regular size packet) with good quick fermentations, but I keep it at 68-70. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently used Whitbread Ale yeast for the first time (mine was the double-sized pack) — has about twice as much yeast in it compared to the "normal-sized" packs of yeast.  I did not re-hydrate before pitching, but with the additional yeast amount, I expected quicker activity. For the first 24 hours, I had it in my basement at 60 degrees.  No activity. For the second 24 hours, I had it upstairs, average temp of about 68 degrees. No activity (I know my seals were good because I could push on the lid of the bucket and displace the Vodka in the air lock).  For the third 24 hours, I cranked the furnace up to 73 degrees.  (My wife was pissed when she realized that I’d crank the heat for my beer, but won’t let her turn it up when she’s cold.)  After the third 24 hours (72 hours total), I popped off the lid to re-pitch some Danstar yeast, and there was a good 1/2 inch of fine white krausening.  So I put the lid back on, gave the bucket about 10 ’swirls’, during which the airlock burped for about 10 seconds straight.  After the agitation, I had good air lock activity. I am now at about 25+ hours since pitching the yeast and I haven’t gotten a single bubble out of the airlock yet.  This was my first time using this crappy yeast, as I usually use Coopers and it has always taken off in a matter of a couple hours.  I usually brew in the evening, and every other batch (this is # 10) has been bubbling nicely when I got up in the morning. Is this normal for this yeast?  Also, how long is the wort going to keep at about 60-65 degrees? The only thing I know for sure is that I am never going to use this yeast again, and I am going to suggest that my local shop pull it from the shelves. — Terry Braun             http://www.eng.uiowa.edu/~tabraun relativistic mass m = mo/sqrt(1-(u^2/c^2))

Response:

That’s the exact opposite of my experience. I’ve used it several times now, since my HBS started carrying it. I always get quick, strong fermentation (even when I’m lazy and don’t rehydrate it), and a lovely flavor with just a hint of fruity overtones. Works beautifully in Ambers, IMHO. In fact, the owner of the local HBS told me he has recently replaced the Munton’s Dry Ale Yeast he used to put in his "Scotty’s Amber" kit and has had an extremely popular reaction. [snip]

Bad packets of yeast do happen, even with reputable brands.  I’m not sure if this is due to problems during manufacture, improper handling during transportation/storage, or both… but it *does* happen occasionally. For example, a lot of people seem to really like Muntons Gold.  I’ve used Muntons "regular" (i.e., not the Gold) dry yeast before, and always had quick fermentations with it.  I decided to give Muntons Gold a try a couple of months ago, and it refused to start.  According to some people here on the NG, there was a bad batch of the Gold not too long ago, and that I must’ve gotten one of these. IMO, a big advantage of making a starter is that you can tell without a doubt whether your yeast is good.  In addition to looking for fermentation activity in the starter, you can smell and taste the starter before you use it, to make sure the yeast is OK.  (And if you’re gonna go to the trouble of making a starter, you might as well use liquid yeast… but that’s a whole ‘nother debate. ) —

Response:

That’s the exact opposite of my experience. I’ve used it several times now, since my HBS started carrying it. I always get quick, strong fermentation (even when I’m lazy and don’t rehydrate it), and a lovely flavor with just a hint of fruity overtones. Works beautifully in Ambers, IMHO. In fact, the owner of the local HBS told me he has recently replaced the Munton’s Dry Ale Yeast he used to put in his "Scotty’s Amber" kit and has had an extremely popular reaction. I do notice that your temp is roughly 5-10 degrees cooler than Whitbread recommends for this yeast. That may be your trouble. I usually pitch it at about 75 and ferment at about 68-70. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am now at about 25+ hours since pitching the yeast and I haven’t gotten a single bubble out of the airlock yet.  This was my first time using this crappy yeast, as I usually use Coopers and it has always taken off in a matter of a couple hours.  I usually brew in the evening, and every other batch (this is # 10) has been bubbling nicely when I got up in the morning. Is this normal for this yeast?  Also, how long is the wort going to keep at about 60-65 degrees? The only thing I know for sure is that I am never going to use this yeast again, and I am going to suggest that my local shop pull it from the shelves. Sorry for the rant but if I end up having to dump this batch I am going to be really bummed. Scott

Response:

I am now at about 25+ hours since pitching the yeast and I haven’t gotten a single bubble out of the airlock yet.  This was my first time using this crappy yeast, as I usually use Coopers and it has always taken off in a matter of a couple hours.  I usually brew in the evening, and every other batch (this is # 10) has been bubbling nicely when I got up in the morning. Is this normal for this yeast?  Also, how long is the wort going to keep at about 60-65 degrees? The only thing I know for sure is that I am never going to use this yeast again, and I am going to suggest that my local shop pull it from the shelves. Sorry for the rant but if I end up having to dump this batch I am going to be really bummed. Scott

Response:

Dude.  I know it’s a sometimes-overused cliche in this group, but relax and drink some beer.  If you have your wort at 60-65 degrees then that’s probably your problem.  The recommended temp for the Whitbread yeast is 65-72. I hope nobody decides to pull anything off shelves anywhere or avoid using Whitbread because of this.  I think Whitbread is a really good yeast, and it’s usually what I use when I don’t use liquid.  I can’t say much about other’s experiences with it, but I’ve brewed ribbon-winning beers with Whitbread. Kevin.

: I am now at about 25+ hours since pitching the yeast and I haven’t gotten a : single bubble out of the airlock yet.  This was my first time using this : crappy yeast, as I usually use Coopers and it has always taken off in a : matter of a couple hours.  I usually brew in the evening, and every other : batch (this is # 10) has been bubbling nicely when I got up in the morning. : Is this normal for this yeast?  Also, how long is the wort going to keep at : about 60-65 degrees? : The only thing I know for sure is that I am never going to use this yeast : again, and I am going to suggest that my local shop pull it from the : shelves. : Sorry for the rant but if I end up having to dump this batch I am going to : be really bummed. : Scott

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