Brewing Master

Question:

Looking good so far.  Dry yeast has some real advantages. (Hopefully minimal disadvantages).  Anyone else have any comments on the Red Star strains?

I’d avoid any brand that also produces bread yeast.  Yeast is very difficult to keep isolated and I’d worry about the bread yeasts getting into the beer strains. I took a class at U.C. Davis and the zymergist(?) said they had developed a beer yeast strain for one of the big European yeast companies who put it in production.  They got a sample six months later and couldn’t isolate the strain they had originally developed.  What they got was all sorts of variants of the bread yeast the company had been producing for years. I know that if I bake bread frequently, my beer batches seem to frement awfully fast  I haven’t noticed a taste difference but I’d be concerned if I was culturing my own. -markr          ,,,                                    it makes you look stupid          o o                                    and it annoys the pig.

Response:

Red Star yeast ain’t what it used to be. My batch has been in the keg only a few days and it is the best beer I have made this year.  It turned out absolutely clean.  It is a bit estery, but I brought that on intentionally by a high gravity, 65-75 degree ferment. I recently used Whitbread ale yeast recommended by a friend, and was disappointed to see no activity for over 14 hours, the Red Star went right to work with only a couple of hours lag time. I have used Wyeast liquid ale yeasts several times, and being a lazy sort, I would rather pitch yeast right out of a pack than make up a starter.  I wonder how often home brewers introduce contamination making up the starter from a sterile culture. At any rate, I had excellent results with this yeast and will certainly be using it in the future. John Shepardson In case some of you have not seen George Fix’s comments on Red Star in the HBD, I have attached it: The production of Red Star ale and lager dry yeast by Universal Foods of Milwaukee was terminated a few years ago because consumer dissatisfaction with these products. At the beginning of 1993 Larry Noakowski of Universal and Crosby + Baker entered into discussions about bringing these products back with new and improved production procedures. There was general agreement that yeast samples would be tested, and any production batch that did not meet standards would be sent back to Universal. Eventually Dr. Jim Foy of Universal and I came to an agreement about what precisely these standards would be. In particular, they are exactly the ones I gave in my article "Evaluation of Pitching Yeast" which appeared in the 1992 edition of Beer and Brewing. Dr. Foy decided to start with an ale strain AHY 43391. It is a different strain than was used previously, and my background checks indicate that it possibly may be one of the strains in the Tanner collection. These were used in small and medium sized commercial brewing in the first half of the 20th century. Two different evaluations were made. The first was on yeast produced in Dr. Foy’s lab in Milwaukee, and the second was on yeast from a full production run at Universal’s plant in Baltimore. The detailed analysis can be found in reports to C+B. The following is a summary:     1. Lactics – Some rods were detected in the lab sample, but the total lactic count satisfied our criteria of <1 cell per million viable yeast cells. The HLP analysis of the production yeast showed a nil count. Both Dr. Foy and Larry Noakowski anticipated this result. The production run was done under sterile conditions, while the lab sample was produced in a standard laboratory environment.    2. Viability – This is a strong point of fresh dry yeast. Less than 10% of the cells stained with Rhodamine B, indicating 90% viability. Dr. Foy and I are recommending the following hydration procedure:        a. Use 14 grams of dry yeast per 5 gallons of brew. ***Rigorously*** sterilize everything used in the hydration procedure.        b. Add the dry yeast to 1/4 – 1/2 cup of water at 90F. Higher temperatures are not needed with yeast like this which have a high % viability. Leave for 15 mins.        c. Combine the hydrated yeast with 1-2 gallons of wort that is as close to the wort to be fermented as possible. I took samples from the main wort at the end of the mash/sparge and rapid boiled and rapid cooled it. This was used for the starter wort.        d. Aerate the starter as much as possible under of course sanitary conditions.        e. Don’t forget to properly oxygenate the main wort once it is chilled.        f. Pitch the starter into the main wort once the latter has been chilled to the recommended fermentation temperature (65-68F). Yeast with this type of viability will result in minimal lags. The longest I experienced in my test brews was 2 hrs.    3. Attenuation – Red Star’s old ale strain was reported to be a poor attenuator. This is not the case for AHY 43391. One can expect an ADF in the 76-78% range.    4. Flavor – This strain leaves a clean, slightly dry finish with a gentle fruity tone. A German style wheat ale was brewed with it, and entered in the recent competition in Kenosa, Wisc. It took first place in the mixed ale category with scores of 41 and 42. The judges were Cheryl and Jay Schultz (certified). Copies of the score sheets were sent to C+B along with my reports.    5. General Recommendations –  I feel this is an excellent yeast for beginning and intermediate brewers. It will not contribute the sophisticated flavors that many strains available in liquid form and slants do. On the other hand, if proper sanitation is used, this strain will not contribute anything ugly or unpleasant either. This is a yeast where the malt and hops used, and the way they are processed, will define the finished beer’s flavors. As I hope was clear from my first post, I am being paid by C+B standard consulting rates to do this work. I also do similar work for others. I am not, however, involved in the distribution, marketing, or sales of this or any other products for that matter. In this particular case, this is actually something I regret. I fear C+B is going to retain "Red Star" on the label. If I had a vote, which I do not, I would call this new strain "Pasteur Ale Yeast" in analogly with Universal’s widely used, and indeed first rate, champagne yeast. I have really enjoyed being on this forum, and I have posted the C+B material because I thought it might be of interest. There are, on the the other hand, some distinctly unpleasant elements on HBD that makes it anything other than fun. Perhaps it is the special nature of this type of communication which brings out these things. George Fix

Response:

: Looking good so far.  Dry yeast has some real advantages. (Hopefully : minimal disadvantages).  Anyone else have any comments on the Red Star : strains? : : I’d avoid any brand that also produces bread yeast.  Yeast is very : difficult to keep isolated and I’d worry about the bread yeasts getting : into the beer strains. My partner and I have been home brewing for four years and have made over 50 batches. The only time we ever had a bad batch is when we used Red Star. Do yourself a favor (and your beer).  If you’re going to spend 15-20 bucks on a batch, pass up the 50 cent Red Star and splurge on a good brand of yeast. Matt Parker

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My brewshop was out of Wyeast last week and suggested I try Red Star.  It had just arrived so I picked up a packet of Red Star Ale for 65 cents. Recalling Dr. Fix’s comments in HBD 1157, I had no hesitation, reguardless of it’s tainted past. I just tossed it into the wort after it had cooled down to the 90’s, stirred and continued cooling.  Next morning, BIG Krausen, at least 5 inches of it. Looking good so far.  Dry yeast has some real advantages. (Hopefully minimal disadvantages).  Anyone else have any comments on the Red Star strains? John Shepardson

Response:

I just tossed it into the wort after it had cooled down to the 90’s, stirred and continued cooling.  Next morning, BIG Krausen, at least 5 inches of it. Looking good so far.  Dry yeast has some real advantages. (Hopefully minimal disadvantages).  Anyone else have any comments on the Red Star strains?

Nothing new and we are all waiting to see what song you sing in a few weeks.  No one ever claimed that Red Star didn’t make a lot of foam. Keep us posted.   js

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