Brewing Master

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a glass carboy. As we transferred the liquid, we ended up splashing it quite a bit and raised up a goodly amount of foam on the top which I guess means we introduced oxygen. A lot of the foam was likely CO2 in the beer that was relased by the jostling. As such, you probably didn’t affect the beer at all. The CO2 probalby kept air away from the beer as it was outgassing. This isn’t to say that it is good to do, but it likely didn’t hurt/ – Mike –

hmmm. A difference of opinion amongst the masters(?) I was of half a mind to just bottle it, but am worried that I’ll make exploding bottles. It’s not doing much of anything and the sp. gravity appears to have settled, but after mucking it up yesterday, I guess I’ll just let it alone for a couple days and maybe bottle it after the weekend.

Response:

Hi, Angela….

chuckle… I just get so curious as to what’s going on in there.

This is one of the reasons that I like to ferment in glass… you get to SEE the yeasties at work…. you know, you’ve seen those signs just before that huge highway ‘improvement’ project, right?  "Your tax dollars at work!" LOL  and right after, you see all those beer-guts leaning on shovel handles doing absolutely *nothing*!! (Oh, excuse me!  they are doing an excellent job holding up their hard-hats!!!)  Well, using a glass carboy for fermentation– you actually get to watch the yeast doing an excellent job of fermenting your wort $$.  It’s fun, it’s entertaining, and it’s a great way to spend a few minutes each day, satisfaction guaranteed.  If you’ll purchase a 6.5 gallon carboy you won’t (usually!) need a blow-off tube, but you will need one with a 5 gal jug.  Get a length (4 feet should do nicely) of tubing just large enough to tightly fit the neck of the carboy (if you need to moisten the end of the tube or warm it up a bit to force it into the neck so much the better– you want a tight fit).  Put the other end in a pan with enough water in it to cover at least 6 inches of the tube.  This prevents air (oxygen) getting into the carboy while allowing all the CO2 to outgas.  You will also want to make sure the pan is large enough to handle the krausen spewage that will travel the length of the tube– at least use a pan that will hold a gallon of liquid.  Now, on to your next points: It’s a little confusing figuring out how long each part will take. In the book, it says 8-14 days for fermentation. But both batches have been vigorously active for only 2.5 to 3 days and also within that shorter time, the sp. gravity has dropped and stabilized to 1.010-ish. So that was why we figured maybe it also takes less time to be ready to drink.

Watch your fermentation temps!  Higher temps will result in off-flavors you will *not* like!  They will also cause very fast fermentations– your 2 to 3 days –as well as incredibly fast, very painful hangovers (sorry voice of experience here!).  Your brewshop will have stick-on thermometer strips that are made of those temp.sensitive crystals… do you remember mood rings??? Egads, did I just date myself or what?  Anyway, these strips stick to the side of your carboy and give you a fairly good idea what the actual fermentation temp is.  For most ale yeasts, you will attain a superior product if you are able to keep the actual ferm. temp. below 70 F.  I like to bottle condition at room temp for a couple weeks, then refrigerate for a few days.  This will really clarify your beer.  If I can gather enough patience to do a final step, I like to age it in the basement for an additional couple of weeks– this is the hardest step of them all! especially with porters and stouts which will improve with additional aging for 6 *months* or even longer!  Cellar temp is about 48 to 55 F. uhhh, I was wondering what that long plastic thing was for. However mine doesn’t have a cup at the bottom; it just curves upwards but appears that it would produce the same result. We’ll give that a shot next time. [I did have a spigot installed on the bottom of the bucket, but it seems rather close to the bottom where all the sludge had settled.]

It’s okay to draw off with that spigot, should you choose to do so.  Just toss out the first runnings which will contain the worst of the trub.  I still prefer glass, though, even though it’s a bit extra work getting out that last few cups without getting gunk, too.  Have your partner (you *do* have a brewing partner, right? {:-) ….anyway, have your partner carefully tilt the carboy so you are able to maintain siphonage until it begins to pick up air. And I kinda’ wanted to use the glass bottle. Somehow other beverages in glass seem to taste better than ones in plastic so I figured brewing in glass might produce a better result.

There are many successful brewers here who will tell you that there is no discernable difference between plastic and glass fermenters as well as secondaries– and I daresay they are correct.  About the only reason I use glass for everything but bottling bucket is so I can *see* what’s happening from start to finish.  This is a ’suit-yourself’ type hobby– it’s a lot like fishing…. if you catch a big fish on one type of lure, you will always have good luck with that lure because you have a lot of confidence in it.  Every fisherman’s tackle box is different– just as every homebrewer’s goody/gadget collection is different.  But we all eventually learn how to make excellent beer. By the way… I have a nice collection of easy-to-brew, tried-and-true extract recipes…. e-mail me if you want some! — –DAsh "Whatever you do, don’t whiz on the electric fence!" –Ren & Stimpy —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

A lot of the foam was likely CO2 in the beer that was relased by the jostling. As such, you probably didn’t affect the beer at all. The CO2 probalby kept air away from the beer as it was outgassing. This isn’t to say that it is good to do, but it likely didn’t hurt/ – Mike – hmmm. A difference of opinion amongst the masters(?) I was of half a mind to just bottle it, but am worried that I’ll make exploding bottles. It’s not doing much of anything and the sp. gravity appears to have settled, but after mucking it up yesterday, I guess I’ll just let it alone for a couple days and maybe bottle it after the weekend.

You’ll see a LOT of differences of opinion here, all the time.  There are many ways to brew a successful beer… the brewers will never agree on all the particulars, but we can all (well, *most* of us can, anyway! LOL) brew good beer! You can let it sit in the secondary for as long as 6 months with no problems, so long as no oxygen is able to get to it.  I’d recommend you bottle this one, as you stated, after the weekend.  I’m sure you’ll enjoy it in a couple weeks. — –DAsh "Whatever you do, don’t whiz on the electric fence!" –Ren & Stimpy —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

First Batch – Flavor? We boiled up our first pot o’ beer using a kit ("Golden Eagle Ale," packed up by the local store using a recipe from a local brewery.) We left everything in the bucket fermenter for the entire process; at day 13 we added corn sugar and bottled. Five days later, we were getting impatient and chilled a test bottle. Popping the cap yielded a nice pfsst sound; the color was nice and golden; had very little sediment-stuff at the bottom. It seemed to taste o.k., however, it leaves sort of a "stick-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth" flavor; I can’t quite decide whether it’s good or bad. Is this a normal flavor for home-made ale? As more time passes, will the flavor change or improve or deteriorate or?? Second Batch – Oxygenation? I got experimental on the second batch, visited the websites of our favorite beers, and bought some ingredients separately (vice in kit form.) We started this one in the plastic bucket; after the bubbling slowed (day 4) we moved it to a glass carboy. As we transferred the liquid, we ended up splashing it quite a bit and raised up a goodly amount of foam on the top which I guess means we introduced oxygen. Papazian (Joy of HomeBrewing) mentions in several places that oxygen should not be introduced after fermentation commences, but I don’t believe he writes why this is a bad thing. Why is this bad and have we ruined this batch? Thanks. Ang

Response:

Howdy, Angela;  My apologies for the long reply, but I hope the info below will help.

First Batch – Flavor? leaves sort of a "stick-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth" flavor;

You’ve just experienced the "I-Just-Can’t-Wait-for-It/I’m-Impatient/It-Ain’t-Done-Aging Quality Assurance" blues!  Hum a few bars and we’ll all join in for the chorus. {:-)  Yes, it will go away as soon as the priming sugar has been consumed– give it a couple more weeks.  If there’s anything left after that long it will likely be excellent.  The hardest lesson to learn in this craft is the waiting.  Some take longer than others (meaning beer to age and homebrewer to learn!).  I still open a bottle or 6 way too early and I’ve been brewing for about 15 years now. Second Batch – Oxygenation?

….Splashing about, making froth while racking (transferring) and Charlie Papazian….. believe he writes why this is a bad thing. Why is this bad and have we ruined this batch?

You may notice a "wet cardboard" flavor once this one has bottle-conditioned.  I wouldn’t say you’ve ruined it….. But as you continue your journey down the road to homebrewer’s Nirvana you will hone your new craft and find the tools which will help you brew more efficiently, make better beer and help you have a lot of fun. —-Helpful hint for racking— (I’m sure others will chime in here, as well… there are many ways to rack, but this one works well for me)— Perhaps one of the tools you’ve missed is a long food-grade plastic hose and racking cane.  This is your siphon hose.  The racking cane fits the end of the hose and is long enough to reach the bottom of the primary fermenter. It is cane shaped, the curve at the top with a cup-like device at the bottom which ‘helps’ keep junk (trub and yeast).  The siphon hose should be long enough to reach from the top of the primary (which should be situated on a table or kitchen deck, so that the bottom of the fermenter is above the top of the secondary/carboy) to the bottom of the carboy.  A squeeze lock should be situated at a point on the hose so that it is above the neck of the carboy and easy to get to in order to control the siphon flow.  You can use a turkey baster (sanitized, of course) to get the siphon started (there are other methods, but never, EVER put your mouth directly to the end of the hose to begin the siphon!!!  Too many bacteria live there.).  Once the siphon has started pulling beer from one container to the other, get the end of the hose to the bottom of the carboy so that the beer flows smoothly and gently into the secondary or bottling bucket (this works for both). Now…..  I’m going to assume something here…. you probably use the bucket for bottling, as well as for fermenting, right?  It has a spigot/valve thingy on the side, yes?  You could probably forego the racking cane/siphon thing and put the hose directly on the spigot and transfer directly, but all the above will apply if you ever decide to ferment in glass, secondary in glass and use the bucket only for bottling. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Howdy, Angela;  My apologies for the long reply, but I hope the info below will help.

By all means, no apologies. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First Batch – Flavor? leaves sort of a "stick-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth" flavor; You’ve just experienced the "I-Just-Can’t-Wait-for-It/I’m-Impatient/It-Ain’t-Done-Aging Quality Assurance" blues!  Hum a few bars and we’ll all join in for the chorus. {:-)  Yes, it will go away as soon as the priming sugar has been consumed– give it a couple more weeks.  If there’s anything left after that long it will likely be excellent.  The hardest lesson to learn in this craft is the waiting.  Some take longer than others (meaning beer to age and homebrewer to learn!).  I still open a bottle or 6 way too early and I’ve been brewing for about 15 years now.

chuckle… I just get so curious as to what’s going on in there. It’s a little confusing figuring out how long each part will take. In the book, it says 8-14 days for fermentation. But both batches have been vigorously active for only 2.5 to 3 days and also within that shorter time, the sp. gravity has dropped and stabilized to 1.010-ish. So that was why we figured maybe it also takes less time to be ready to drink. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Second Batch – Oxygenation? ….Splashing about, making froth while racking (transferring) and Charlie Papazian….. believe he writes why this is a bad thing. Why is this bad and have we ruined this batch? You may notice a "wet cardboard" flavor once this one has bottle-conditioned.  I wouldn’t say you’ve ruined it….. But as you continue your journey down the road to homebrewer’s Nirvana you will hone your new craft and find the tools which will help you brew more efficiently, make better beer and help you have a lot of fun. —-Helpful hint for racking— (I’m sure others will chime in here, as well… there are many ways to rack, but this one works well for me)— Perhaps one of the tools you’ve missed is a long food-grade plastic hose and racking cane.  This is your siphon hose.  The racking cane fits the end of the hose and is long enough to reach the bottom of the primary fermenter. It is cane shaped, the curve at the top with a cup-like device at the bottom which ‘helps’ keep junk (trub and yeast).  The siphon hose should be long enough to reach from the top of the primary (which should be situated on a table or kitchen deck, so that the bottom of the fermenter is above the top of the secondary/carboy) to the bottom of the carboy.  A squeeze lock should be situated at a point on the hose so that it is above the neck of the carboy and easy to get to in order to control the siphon flow.  You can use a turkey baster (sanitized, of course) to get the siphon started (there are other methods, but never, EVER put your mouth directly to the end of the hose to begin the siphon!!!  Too many bacteria live there.).  Once the siphon has started pulling beer from one container to the other, get the end of the hose to the bottom of the carboy so that the beer flows smoothly and gently into the secondary or bottling bucket (this works for both). Now…..  I’m going to assume something here…. you probably use the bucket for bottling, as well as for fermenting, right?  It has a spigot/valve thingy on the side, yes?  You could probably forego the racking cane/siphon thing and put the hose directly on the spigot and transfer directly, but all the above will apply if you ever decide to ferment in glass, secondary in glass and use the bucket only for bottling.

uhhh, I was wondering what that long plastic thing was for. However mine doesn’t have a cup at the bottom; it just curves upwards but appears that it would produce the same result. We’ll give that a shot next time. [I did have a spigot installed on the bottom of the bucket, but it seems rather close to the bottom where all the sludge had settled.] And I kinda’ wanted to use the glass bottle. Somehow other beverages in glass seem to taste better than ones in plastic so I figured brewing in glass might produce a better result.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First Batch – Flavor? Five days later, we were getting impatient and chilled a test bottle. Popping the cap yielded a nice pfsst sound; the color was nice and golden; had very little sediment-stuff at the bottom. It seemed to taste o.k., however, it leaves sort of a "stick-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth" flavor; I can’t quite decide whether it’s good or bad. Is this a normal flavor for home-made ale? That’s pretty early to be drinking most beers. Your Ale may have more "body" than you are used to if you’ve been drinking weak commercial Lagers…But It’s hard to envision what you describe as a "flavor".

chuckle… Flavor is rather difficult to define. I started with the ale kit to get an idea of the process. With the second batch I used the suggested amounts in Papzian’s intermediate recipe but substituted ingredients used in Moose Drool and Mirror Pond Ale. (Mirror Pond’s website only says they use liberal amounts of cascade hops, but the Moose Drool site lists the hop types and grains used.) (It tasted really good while it was cooking.) Anyway, I guess I’ll let the bottles sit awhile longer. It’s probably not ruined, but it’s quality/life expectancy may be diminished by oxidation…Just like metal rusts, oxygen will gradually eat holes in your beer…the more oxy…the sooner you will notice it.

Well, I guess we’ll just have to drink it quickly so it doesn’t eat the beer before we get to it!

Response:

Second Batch – Oxygenation? I got experimental on the second batch, visited the websites of our favorite beers, and bought some ingredients separately (vice in kit form.) We started this one in the plastic bucket; after the bubbling slowed (day 4) we moved it to a glass carboy. As we transferred the liquid, we ended up splashing it quite a bit and raised up a goodly amount of foam on the top which I guess means we introduced oxygen. Papazian (Joy of HomeBrewing) mentions in several places that oxygen should not be introduced after fermentation commences, but I don’t believe he writes why this is a bad thing. Why is this bad and have we ruined this batch?

The only time that you want to introduce oxygen into your beer is after you have boiled & cooled the wort & before you pitch the yeast. When you transfer from your brewpot to the primary fermenter, just do what you did before to create all the foam!  Be more careful when transferring after fermentation has begun, but aeration helps the yeast begin the fermentation process. Kelvin

Response:

bottled. Five days later, we were getting impatient and chilled a test bottle. Popping the cap yielded a nice pfsst sound; the color was nice and golden; had very little sediment-stuff at the bottom. It seemed to taste o.k., however, it leaves sort of a "stick-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth" flavor; I can’t quite decide whether it’s good or bad.

        Let it age some more. I suspect it is still too young. a glass carboy. As we transferred the liquid, we ended up splashing it quite a bit and raised up a goodly amount of foam on the top which I guess means we introduced oxygen.

        A lot of the foam was likely CO2 in the beer that was relased by the jostling. As such, you probably didn’t affect the beer at all. The CO2 probalby kept air away from the beer as it was outgassing. This isn’t to say that it is good to do, but it likely didn’t hurt/         – Mike –

Response:

First Batch – Flavor? Five days later, we were getting impatient and chilled a test bottle. Popping the cap yielded a nice pfsst sound; the color was nice and golden; had very little sediment-stuff at the bottom. It seemed to taste o.k., however, it leaves sort of a "stick-to-the-roof-of-your-mouth" flavor; I can’t quite decide whether it’s good or bad. Is this a normal flavor for home-made ale?

That’s pretty early to be drinking most beers. Your Ale may have more "body" than you are used to if you’ve been drinking weak commercial Lagers…But It’s hard to envision what you describe as a "flavor". As more time passes, will the flavor change or improve or deteriorate or??

It should improve…3 weeks is about minimum "drinking" age for most homebrews. They will continue to improve, often for another mounth or more. Alcohol content is one of the main factors, stronger beers take longer to mature. Second Batch – Oxygenation? I got experimental on the second batch, visited the websites of our favorite beers, and bought some ingredients separately (vice in kit form.) We started this one in the plastic bucket; after the bubbling slowed (day 4) we moved it to a glass carboy. As we transferred the liquid, we ended up splashing it quite a bit and raised up a goodly amount of foam on the top which I guess means we introduced oxygen. Papazian (Joy of HomeBrewing) mentions in several places that oxygen should not be introduced after fermentation commences, but I don’t believe he writes why this is a bad thing. Why is this bad and have we ruined this batch?

It’s probably not ruined, but it’s quality/life expectancy may be diminished by oxidation…Just like metal rusts, oxygen will gradually eat holes in your beer…the more oxy…the sooner you will notice it. The solution is to learn how to run a good siphon. It adds little oxygen if done properly. ]]]Z[[[

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