kits or real brewing

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Question:

I definitely can taste differences between all-grain beers and beers made from extract with the all-grain beers winning out. What I am not sure of is why. I think freshness of ingredients is one factor. Possibly, carmelization of the extract is another. But, I have to wonder if the real difference lies in two other factors. The first is the greater range of adjuncts and specialty grains that are convenient to apply with a mashing process, but not so convenient with extract brews. The second, more major reason might simply be the greater experience and the resulting application of better brewing techniques. An example is doing a full volume boil. There is no question in my mind that this improves the quality of the finished beer. But, most extract brewers avoid it because it requires a bigger pot. Meanwhile all-grain brewers pretty much always do it. — "Good idea, Chuck. But, syrup won’t stop them!" – Firesign Theatre

Response:

here in australia, most of my friends and myself brew with commercially produced malt extract kits plus sugar or dextrose. Lots of different flavours but basically all ales. All pretty successful, How much better beer can we make with malts and hops only either in extract form or grain form. Is it really worth the effort?

Response:

In the last month or so I’ve brewed my first 3 beers: my first was a kit of a Burton ale style; my second was an all grain double decoction dunkel weizen; my third a kit pilsner. The Burton ale was so much tastier than the usual Foster’s "spittoon ammo", it lasted about a week with a little help. The dunkel weizen and the pilsner are still brewing but I guess they’ll get the same treatment Got to love our stinking hot summer weather here in Aus now: great drinking weather! As to which is the better, I guess all grain is cheaper in the long run, but for the double decoction brew I did, it certainly takes longer. Mark Dodgson Go the Windies! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -here in australia, most of my friends and myself brew with commercially produced malt extract kits plus sugar or dextrose. Lots of different flavours but basically all ales. All pretty successful, How much better beer can we make with malts and hops only either in extract form or grain form. Is it really worth the effort?

Response:

Ther is no compairson between malt extract and grain beer. One batch of all grain and you will be hooked.

Response:

Barry, Why not graduate to full mash in stages by brewing from extract first? The step from kits to extract is a relatively small one with minimal extra equipment required but the difference in result is phenominal. Then try graduating to full mash. However, make sure you get 1st class extract and hops – don’t skimp for the sake of a few bob. This o course is assuming the kits you use are just tins of hopped extract. Cheers Graham. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – here in australia, most of my friends and myself brew with commercially produced malt extract kits plus sugar or dextrose. Lots of different flavours but basically all ales. All pretty successful, How much better beer can we make with malts and hops only either in extract form or grain form. Is it really worth the effort?

Response:

Ther is no compairson between malt extract and grain beer. One batch of all grain and you will be hooked.

Quote from Charlie Papazian’s The Home Brewer’s Companion page 25: "In the mid 1980’s England’s Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) taste-tested three different beers made from the same full grain mash. One was made from wort drawn directly off the mash. Another was made from malt extract syrup that had been processed from that mash with tap water added. The third was made from the same malt extract syrup with distilled water added. Being proponents of full grain mashing, the CAMRA panel members admitted to being biased against extract brewed beer. BUT THEY FOUND IN A BLIND TASTING THAT THEY PREFERRED THE MALT-EXTRACT-AND-TAP-WATER-BASED BEER OVER THE DISTILLED-WATER-BASED BREW AND FOUND NO CHARACTERS IN THE FULL-GRAIN BREW TO SOLICIT A PREFERENCE FOR OR AGAINST THE EXTRACT-BASED BREW." Charlie did go on to say that freshness, yeast, and brewing procedures may have influenced the test, but I find it interesting. Comments? — Robin (Please don’t hate me because I’m an EXTRACT BREWER) Powlus

Response:

As a fellow Australian, my feeling is that the extract available in kits (hopped) is of better quality than the unhopped extract available, which comes only in generic bags (dry) or tins (liquid). For that reason I often look for recipes which combine kits with fresh ingredients — grain and hops — as I too do not have the time or equipment to use a full mash … yet. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – here in australia, most of my friends and myself brew with commercially produced malt extract kits plus sugar or dextrose. Lots of different flavours but basically all ales. All pretty successful, How much better beer can we make with malts and hops only either in extract form or grain form. Is it really worth the effort?

Response:

Well, yeah… there can be comparisons made… good ones. I have been told that some extract brews have beaten out all-grain brews before. Now, admittedly, there is something to be said for brewing skill here. I’m an all grain brewer and the last time I did an extract beer was to help a friend with his first beer; a wheat beer. It was mostly my doing because he was trying to learn. Anway, he took the works home and when I got to sample it when it was ready, it was fabulous. It’s not that you can’t make great extract beer. You just can’t get the control all-grain gives you. However, if we’re talking about those pre-hopped kits, I agree with you. Those can turn out better than the mega-swill beers, but certainly not as good as all-grain. But if you start with good LME or DME, fresh hops, liquid yeast and good care, it’ll be difficult to tell the pedigree of the malt when you are done with the beer. Finally, I think the reason all-grain beer has a reputation for being so much better is that, to make it, you have to be a better brewer anyway. | Tim Robinson | Lonely Web page. Please visit. | | "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by | | men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." L. Brandeis | Sorry about the bogus e-mail address. I get too much e-mail spam. Just use the one in the sig. Brewers, check out http://www.ionet.net/~timtroyr/beer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ther is no compairson between malt extract and grain beer. One batch of all grain and you will be hooked. Quote from Charlie Papazian’s The Home Brewer’s Companion page 25: "In the mid 1980’s England’s Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) taste-tested three different beers made from the same full grain mash. One was made from wort drawn directly off the mash. Another was made from malt extract syrup that had been processed from that mash with tap water added. The third was made from the same malt extract syrup with distilled water added. Being proponents of full grain mashing, the CAMRA panel members admitted to being biased against extract brewed beer. BUT THEY FOUND IN A BLIND TASTING THAT THEY PREFERRED THE MALT-EXTRACT-AND-TAP-WATER-BASED BEER OVER THE DISTILLED-WATER-BASED BREW AND FOUND NO CHARACTERS IN THE FULL-GRAIN BREW TO SOLICIT A PREFERENCE FOR OR AGAINST THE EXTRACT-BASED BREW." Charlie did go on to say that freshness, yeast, and brewing procedures may have influenced the test, but I find it interesting. Comments?

I’d like to agree with Charlie, but I do. After years of extract brewing, I recently switched to all-grain, and boy, does the new stuff taste oh-so good! To me, extracts always have a slightly funny off taste that I just can’t really explain. I think it might be that they taste somewhat un-fresh, even after they’ve just been made. Because it is a taste that I also associate with beers that have been sitting in the dark in my brew locker for about a year. While I was an extract brewer, every month I’d always buy one or two six packs of some other good beer, because my beer just wasn’t as good or fresh tasting as Sierra Nevada or whatever local brewery I happened to want to try at the time. But I really can’t believe how good my all-grains have turned out. My very first one tastes almost as good to me as Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (the only difference is a little less hops for bittering and finish I think). BUT THAT WAS THE VERY FIRST ONE! Number 2 is even better. I now wonder if I’ll ever have to buy anyone elses beer again? I guess I will, especially around Xmas just to try everyone latest creations. Also, I’m addicted to the smell malted barley makes while mashing. It is just such a more pleasent smell compared to that of extract! I wish I could do a mash every day. John S. Watson NASA Ames Research Center http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/~watson

Response:

William – Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. 8 or 10 years ago, when the only Malt Extracts available were those from England, Australia, etc., your statement was true. The problem was the unknown amount of sugar adjuncts in those canned extracts. Today, with many sources of 100% Malt Extract available (primarily U.S. made), there is no quality difference between Extract Beer and Grain Beer. Lots of competition results back me up on this.

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