Brewing Master

Question:

In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"? And anyway what do I know?

When quoting someone, there’s nothing wrong with starting a sentence with the word ‘and.’ Phil

Response:

Boiling is not to sanitize the wort, although it does that, but a rolling boil is essential to isomerize the hop components.

Boiling is of course to sanitize the wort.  A lengthy boil is to isomerize the hops… Cheers, Mike

Response:

It is perfectly all right to begin a sentence with "And".  You may also begin it with "But" or "Also".  However, it is not considered good English style to have too many such sentences.

But, why? And, like, I mean really, like, so what? Also, like, who does, you know, like care? Like, really. Like, Brian, OK?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is perfectly all right to begin a sentence with "And".  You may also begin it with "But" or "Also".  However, it is not considered good English style to have too many such sentences. But, why? And, like, I mean really, like, so what? Also, like, who does, you know, like care? Like, really. Like, Brian, OK?

Well, yeah, fer shure, dude.

Response:

It is perfectly all right to begin a sentence with "And".  You may also begin it with "But" or "Also".  However, it is not considered good English style to have too many such sentences. But, why? And, like, I mean really, like, so what? Also, like, who does, you know, like care? Like, really. Like, Brian, OK?

        I hear ya dude! And totally.         – Mike –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is perfectly all right to begin a sentence with "And".  You may also begin it with "But" or "Also".  However, it is not considered good English style to have too many such sentences. But, why? And, like, I mean really, like, so what? Also, like, who does, you know, like care? Like, really. Like, Brian, OK?    I hear ya dude! And totally.    - Mike –

Stoked! Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

At first I though it was a typographical error.  In case you have not heard, researchers are now touting beer as a wholesome food.  My wife brought home the article which was published in the Wall Street Journal.  It states statistically significant health benefits are associated with the consumption of beer.  Well as I read the article I was puzzled by a statement made by one researcher.  Can anyone point out what I am missing?  How did someone not catch this? "Nevertheless, when it comes to beer’s general health benefits," Dr. Denke says, "the science makes sense; beer is distilled from hops and barley and some of the beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along." <copied from msnbc.com In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"? And anyway what do I know? MCD

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At first I though it was a typographical error.  In case you have not heard, researchers are now touting beer as a wholesome food.  My wife brought home the article which was published in the Wall Street Journal.  It states statistically significant health benefits are associated with the consumption of beer. Well as I read the article I was puzzled by a statement made by one researcher. Can anyone point out what I am missing?  How did someone not catch this? "Nevertheless, when it comes to beer’s general health benefits," Dr. Denke says, "the science makes sense; beer is distilled from hops and barley and some of the beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along." <copied from

msnbc.com Beer is NOT distilled.  Other than that, I don’t think he missed anything. Who knows?  He may even be correct about the ". . . beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along" thing.  Who knew?! In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"?

She’s definitively a wine snob, but was definitely NOT an English major. It’s okay to dismiss her opinion– we KNOW better!  {:-) — –DAsh obvious with attbi)

Response:

In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"?

I’m not sure about the grammatical aspect, but that statement really burned me. She comes off as very childish. I would think the wine industry wouldn’t try to perpetuate the "wine snob" image, but apparently I’m wrong. -Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And anyway what do I know? MCD

Response:

Beer is NOT distilled.  Other than that, I don’t think he missed anything. Who knows?  He may even be correct about the ". . . beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along" thing.  Who knew?!

I don’t mean to get into a semantic argument, this is just my ramblings about this thought.  :-) **Technically,** beer might just come from distilled wort.  We don’t consider it distillation because that particular unit operation is usually used to concentrate the overhead (lower boiling point) product into a distillate, but the bottoms (higher boiling point) product is still a valid product, no? If you consider my brewpot as a distillation column with no plates and an open overhead (no condenser), we’re distilling wort which concentrating proteins, sugars, etc. in the bottoms product whilst driving off the water vapor "distillate."  (You could carry this further to say that the water will eventually condense *somewhere* and therefore it really is distillation, but I think that’s going a little overboard.) Of course, another argument may be that distillation requires that you deal with the distillate as the product and that the bottoms product is //concentrated// as opposed to distilled.  Either way, I think the man had a valid point about concentrating good things in the good stuff that we make. daniel Change .net to .com for direct replies.

Response:

I see!  Since I brew from extract I cannot relate to this distillation.  I start with a malt concentrate (extract) and dilute before boiling.  I mainly boil to sanitize the wort, right?  All grain brewers must boil for longer periods of time to get the gravity right.  I guess technically you are right. MCD

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beer is NOT distilled.  Other than that, I don’t think he missed anything. Who knows?  He may even be correct about the ". . . beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along" thing.  Who knew?! I don’t mean to get into a semantic argument, this is just my ramblings about this thought.  :-) **Technically,** beer might just come from distilled wort.  We don’t consider it distillation because that particular unit operation is usually used to concentrate the overhead (lower boiling point) product into a distillate, but the bottoms (higher boiling point) product is still a valid product, no? If you consider my brewpot as a distillation column with no plates and an open overhead (no condenser), we’re distilling wort which concentrating proteins, sugars, etc. in the bottoms product whilst driving off the water vapor "distillate."  (You could carry this further to say that the water will eventually condense *somewhere* and therefore it really is distillation, but I think that’s going a little overboard.) Of course, another argument may be that distillation requires that you deal with the distillate as the product and that the bottoms product is //concentrated// as opposed to distilled.  Either way, I think the man had a valid point about concentrating good things in the good stuff that we make. daniel Change .net to .com for direct replies.

Response:

Her statment is an oxymoron.  She used the word taste (which is a mater of… TASTE)! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"? I’m not sure about the grammatical aspect, but that statement really burned me. She comes off as very childish. I would think the wine industry wouldn’t try to perpetuate the "wine snob" image, but apparently I’m wrong. -Kevin And anyway what do I know? MCD

Response:

It is perfectly all right to begin a sentence with "And".  You may also begin it with "But" or "Also".  However, it is not considered good English style to have too many such sentences. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She may be a wine snob and all, but you can’t hold her to that quote.  I can tell you from experience that journalists often take a random phrase that someone says and insert it into their article.  Once the phrase is in the article, the editors have to make it grammatically correct.  So, the fact that the quote begins with "and" trumps the fact that the first word of the quote is an article, and therefore, not a valid part of speech with which to begin a sentence. On the other hand, I think I’ll go have another beer…. At first I though it was a typographical error.  In case you have not heard, researchers are now touting beer as a wholesome food.  My wife brought home the article which was published in the Wall Street Journal.  It states statistically significant health benefits are associated with the consumption of beer. Well as I read the article I was puzzled by a statement made by one researcher. Can anyone point out what I am missing?  How did someone not catch this? "Nevertheless, when it comes to beer’s general health benefits," Dr. Denke says, "the science makes sense; beer is distilled from hops and barley and some of the beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along." <copied from msnbc.com In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"? And anyway what do I know? MCD

Response:

Boiling is not to sanitize the wort, although it does that, but a rolling boil is essential to isomerize the hop components. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see!  Since I brew from extract I cannot relate to this distillation.  I start with a malt concentrate (extract) and dilute before boiling.  I mainly boil to sanitize the wort, right?  All grain brewers must boil for longer periods of time to get the gravity right.  I guess technically you are right. MCD Beer is NOT distilled.  Other than that, I don’t think he missed anything. Who knows?  He may even be correct about the ". . . beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along" thing.  Who knew?! I don’t mean to get into a semantic argument, this is just my ramblings about this thought.  :-) **Technically,** beer might just come from distilled wort.  We don’t consider it distillation because that particular unit operation is usually used to concentrate the overhead (lower boiling point) product into a distillate, but the bottoms (higher boiling point) product is still a valid product, no? If you consider my brewpot as a distillation column with no plates and an open overhead (no condenser), we’re distilling wort which concentrating proteins, sugars, etc. in the bottoms product whilst driving off the water vapor "distillate."  (You could carry this further to say that the water will eventually condense *somewhere* and therefore it really is distillation, but I think that’s going a little overboard.) Of course, another argument may be that distillation requires that you deal with the distillate as the product and that the bottoms product is //concentrated// as opposed to distilled.  Either way, I think the man had a valid point about concentrating good things in the good stuff that we make. daniel Change .net to .com for direct replies.

Response:

She may be a wine snob and all, but you can’t hold her to that quote.  I can tell you from experience that journalists often take a random phrase that someone says and insert it into their article.  Once the phrase is in the article, the editors have to make it grammatically correct.  So, the fact that the quote begins with "and" trumps the fact that the first word of the quote is an article, and therefore, not a valid part of speech with which to begin a sentence. On the other hand, I think I’ll go have another beer…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At first I though it was a typographical error.  In case you have not heard, researchers are now touting beer as a wholesome food.  My wife brought home the article which was published in the Wall Street Journal.  It states statistically significant health benefits are associated with the consumption of beer. Well as I read the article I was puzzled by a statement made by one researcher. Can anyone point out what I am missing?  How did someone not catch this? "Nevertheless, when it comes to beer’s general health benefits," Dr. Denke says, "the science makes sense; beer is distilled from hops and barley and some of the beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along." <copied from msnbc.com In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"? And anyway what do I know? MCD

Response:

I’m not sure about the grammatical aspect, but that statement really burned me. She comes off as very childish. I would think the wine industry wouldn’t try to perpetuate the "wine snob" image, but apparently I’m wrong.

Well, one has to remember what "beer" means to the vast majority of the American public … ben

Response:

I’m not sure about the grammatical aspect, but that statement really burned me. She comes off as very childish. I would think the wine industry wouldn’t try to perpetuate the "wine snob" image, but apparently I’m wrong. Well, one has to remember what "beer" means to the vast majority of the American public …

I remember Fred E’s comments on judging lite beers. They were judged on taste alone – if it had any, it was rejected. Lemme see if I can find it….. here it is http://www.allaboutbeer.com/columns/fred6.html Tony V.

Response:

The quote makes it sound as if you’d get the same benefit from eating those ingredients.  Maybe you would- but then the fact is that you’ve actually diluted the nutrients by making them into beer- not concentrated them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At first I though it was a typographical error.  In case you have not heard, researchers are now touting beer as a wholesome food.  My wife brought home the article which was published in the Wall Street Journal.  It states statistically significant health benefits are associated with the consumption of beer.  Well as I read the article I was puzzled by a statement made by one researcher.  Can anyone point out what I am missing?  How did someone not catch this? "Nevertheless, when it comes to beer’s general health benefits," Dr. Denke says, "the science makes sense; beer is distilled from hops and barley and some of the beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along." <copied from msnbc.com In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"? And anyway what do I know? MCD

Response:

At first I though it was a typographical error.  In case you have not heard, researchers are now touting beer as a wholesome food.  My wife brought home the article which was published in the Wall Street Journal.  It states statistically significant health benefits are associated with the consumption of beer.

This has been reported for a while, with more recent supportive findings. It’s about time the American beer industry tried to ditch the "Talking Frog and Bikini Team" image and point out that beer is as healthy as wine (in moderation). Look at how far the image of American wine has come in the past 25 years. Well as I read the article I was puzzled by a statement made by one researcher. Can anyone point out what I am missing?  How did someone not catch this? "Nevertheless, when it comes to beer’s general health benefits," Dr. Denke says, "the science makes sense; beer is distilled from hops and barley and some of the beneficial nutrients are concentrated and passed along." <copied from msnbc.com

Either a mis-spoken or mis-quoted statement. Dr. Denke publishes mostly on nutrition (including alcohol) and it’s relation to cardiovascular disease. She may not be fully aware of the brewing process; or the journalist doesn’t know his Bud from a hole in the ground. This doesn’t detract from the findings, but I does make the story sound a little "fluffy" for the beer geek crowd. Maybe the industry needs someone who knows the brewing process as a spokesperson. In addition a comment was made by a bitter (about 3000 IBU) Juanita Duggan, a wine wholesaler representative who seems to be particularly petty, "And besides, our products will always taste better than theirs."  Isn’t it improper to begin a sentence with the word "and"?

And I think you may be right. Doesn’t Stone Brewing put out a beer with a name appropriate for the wine rep

Response:

<snippage I mainly boil to sanitize the wort, right?  All grain brewers must boil for longer periods of time to get the gravity right.

No, you also boil to add bitterness, flavor and aroma from your hops (I’m assuming you don’t use pre-hopped extracts).  Your boiling period will be the same with either method.  In fact, because you get a lower hop utilization when doing non-full boil brews, to get the same bitterness from the same amount of hops, extract brewers would actually boil *longer* than AG brewers. Mike

Response:

I see!  Since I brew from extract I cannot relate to this distillation.  I start with a malt concentrate (extract) and dilute before boiling.  I mainly boil to sanitize the wort, right?  All grain brewers must boil for longer periods of time to get the gravity right.  I guess technically you are right.

Well, keeping in mind that my ramblings weren’t meant to say, "yes, we are *too* distilling!" but were more like saying that internal combustion engines are just expensive ways to make water….any open boil situation (where water vapor can escape) might possibly be considered a type of distillation, so even yours would count.  :-) daniel P.S.  Simplified, CH4 + 2 O2 — CO2 + 2 H2O…. Change .net to .com for direct replies.

Response:

I’m not sure about the grammatical aspect, but that statement really burned me. She comes off as very childish. I would think the wine industry wouldn’t try to perpetuate the "wine snob" image, but apparently I’m wrong.

She comes across as more of a whine snob, in any case… — John Miller     AMA 739245 N4VU            DoD 1942 "Don’t argue about it, just do it." -Lennie the Lurker

Response: