washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A23 Nicolle Devenish, communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Thursday that John Kerry will pay a heavy political price for what he did. Lynne Cheney, the vice president’s wife, said, "This is a bad man." The crime? John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. The response from the Cheneys and the Bush campaign has been blatantly political. In fact, it is they who are using Mary Cheney — using her now to score points against Kerry and John Edwards over an issue on which they themselves are guilty of the wrongs that Kerry and Edwards are fighting against. Even after almost 30 years in Washington, I am surprised by the overwhelming hypocrisy and meanness of the Bush reelection campaign. Let’s review the facts. Before the election season, this administration opposed every initiative to offer equality for gay men and lesbians. Indeed, it has gone out of its way to be punitive, with such actions as the Office of Personnel Management’s announcement that the federal government has no intention of honoring the Clinton administration’s order to add sexual orientation to anti-discrimination rules in the federal government. After the debate, the vice president said of John Kerry: "This is a man who will say anything and do anything to get elected." Many people thought the same thing about Dick Cheney and President Bush on Feb. 24. That was the day the president announced to the country that heterosexual marriages are in trouble because gay people might someday have such a right in a few states. The crisis was so dire that he implored Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to permanently take away any rights gay men and lesbians might have to equal access to government benefits of marriage. The Republican leaderships in both houses of Congress brought this amendment to the floor. Anyone watching the debate would cringe at the dehumanizing and painful things said by Republican sponsors of the proposal about gay people. All of the Cheneys have sat back as senators and members of Congress who stood up for their position against the constitutional amendment were attacked in campaigns across the country. In Texas, North Dakota, South Carolina, Oklahoma, North Carolina and elsewhere, Republican candidates are using the gay issue against Democrats who have done nothing more than vote to protect the notion of fairness and equality in our Constitution. Where is the outrage of Dick and Lynne Cheney over this? In August, at a town meeting, the vice president was asked to speak from the heart about gay marriage. He did. He said he was against the constitutional amendment. And he expressed love for his daughter. The country was impressed. I think the record is pretty clear that fair-minded political leaders didn’t talk publicly about Mary Cheney until her father did. All of a sudden it was clear to John Kerry and John Edwards that if the Bush campaign tried to attack them on the gay marriage issue, they should just respond by saying they had the same position on this issue as Dick Cheney. That is certainly the advice I gave them. How dare the president criticize Kerry, as he did again the other night, for taking the same position as Dick Cheney? And we know that anti-gay messages are being promoted in many districts around the country to get out the evangelical vote for President Bush on Election Day. The silent but admirable Mary Cheney has remained a loyal daughter and foot soldier in this homophobic campaign. I feel sorry for her — sorry that she seems to now be a pawn in this race. But the perpetrator is not Kerry. This issue is in the campaign because Bush sought political advantage by using it all year. This week’s outrage rings so false it makes my ears hurt. _____ The writer is former chairman and chief executive of the Recording Industry Association of America and a volunteer for gay rights causes. (c) 2004 The Washington Post Company        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access               at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

Nice try. And I’d probably try it, too, if I were you; Bush got a 4 point bounce from the controversy, so you KNOW it’s resonating. All someone has to be, after all, is a parent, to know why. Attacking your opponent’s children just ain’t done. Kerry is a bona-fide asshole. Only a gen-u-wine, grade-A-for-Asshole asshole would hide behind, not just the billionaire he married for her money, but the other side’s *children*. Someone would have to hate Bush an AWFUL lot to deliberately select such an indisputably known asshole. And while there’s some of them, there’s apparently fewer than Kerry is counting on there being. Free-fall is when things get worse faster than you can lower your standards. And 4% apparently just faced up to that situation, and switched to Bush. Suffer, Freep

washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A23 Nicolle Devenish, communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign,

said Thursday that John Kerry will pay a heavy political price for what he did. Lynne Cheney, the

vice president’s wife, said, "This is a bad man." The crime? John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we

are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. The response from the Cheneys and the Bush campaign has been blatantly

political. In fact, it is they who are using Mary Cheney — using her now to score points against

Kerry and John Edwards over an issue on which they themselves are guilty of the wrongs that Kerry and

Edwards are fighting against. Even after almost 30 years in Washington, I am surprised by the

overwhelming hypocrisy and meanness of the Bush reelection campaign. Let’s review the facts. Before the election season, this administration

opposed every initiative to offer equality for gay men and lesbians. Indeed, it has gone out of its

way to be punitive, with such actions as the Office of Personnel Management’s announcement that the

federal government has no intention of honoring the Clinton administration’s order to add sexual orientation to anti-discrimination rules in the federal government. After the debate, the vice president said of John Kerry: "This is a man

who will say anything and do anything to get elected." Many people thought the same thing about Dick

Cheney and President Bush on Feb. 24. That was the day the president announced to the country that heterosexual marriages are in trouble because gay people might someday have such a

right in a few states. The crisis was so dire that he implored Congress to pass a constitutional

amendment to permanently take away any rights gay men and lesbians might have to equal access to

government benefits of marriage. The Republican leaderships in both houses of Congress brought this

amendment to the floor. Anyone watching the debate would cringe at the dehumanizing and painful things

said by Republican sponsors of the proposal about gay people. All of the Cheneys have sat back as senators and members of Congress who stood up for their position against the constitutional amendment were attacked in campaigns

across the country. In Texas, North Dakota, South Carolina, Oklahoma, North Carolina and

elsewhere, Republican candidates are using the gay issue against Democrats who have done nothing more than vote to protect the notion of fairness and equality in our Constitution. Where is the outrage of Dick and Lynne Cheney over this? In August, at a town meeting, the vice president was asked to speak from the heart about gay marriage. He did. He said he was against the constitutional amendment. And

he expressed love for his daughter. The country was impressed. I think the record is pretty clear that fair-minded political leaders

didn’t talk publicly about Mary Cheney until her father did. All of a sudden it was clear to John

Kerry and John Edwards that if the Bush campaign tried to attack them on the gay marriage issue, they

should just respond by saying they had the same position on this issue as Dick Cheney. That is

certainly the advice I gave them. How dare the president criticize Kerry, as he did again the other

night, for taking the same position as Dick Cheney? And we know that anti-gay messages are being

promoted in many districts around the country to get out the evangelical vote for President Bush on

Election Day. The silent but admirable Mary Cheney has remained a loyal daughter and foot soldier in this homophobic campaign. I feel sorry for her — sorry that she seems to now be a pawn in this

race. But the perpetrator is not Kerry. This issue is in the campaign because Bush sought political

advantage by using it all year. This week’s outrage rings so false it makes my ears hurt. _____ The writer is former chairman and chief executive of the Recording

Industry Association of America – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and a volunteer for gay rights causes. (c) 2004 The Washington Post Company        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access               at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

 John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family.

What part of this, exactly, do you take exception to? Everybody knew she’s gay. Are the Cheney’s ashamed of her? Or, do they NOT LIKE HAVING THEIR HYPOCRACY EXPOSED ????

Response:

 John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. What part of this, exactly, do you take exception to? Everybody knew she’s gay. Are the Cheney’s ashamed of her? Or, do they NOT LIKE HAVING THEIR HYPOCRACY EXPOSED ????

I wonder how Mary feels about the fact that the Log Cabin Republicans (gay and lesbian Republican organization) decided NOT TO ENDORSE A CANDIDATE this election.

Response:

Nice try. And I’d probably try it, too, if I were you; Bush got a 4 point bounce from the controversy

Depending on which poll you look at, between 53 and 56% of Americans say that Bush is moving this country in the WRONG direction. As far as polls go, I put more weight in state by state polls.  Remember the Electoral College?  Kerry still has Ohio and Pennsylvania, the key to WINNING on November 2nd.  IOWA just tilted in Kerry’s favor. Have an open mind or undecided?  Read: http://www.udecide.org/downloads/YouDecide-Booklet.pdf

Response:

washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen

and yet nearly 80% of Americans found Kerry’s remarks to be offensive and out of line. Not just conservatives, not just Gay’s, but EVERYONE! YOU LOSE, ASSHOLE!!! Your guy is a first class jerk, and the American people saw that. Mark my words, JOhn KErry, dishonorably discharged traitor, lost the election with this comment. But you try to talk it down as much as you can. After all, he IS your guy, isn’t he? You and Hilary Rosen. About an equally matched pair mentally. paul arizona

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A23 Nicolle Devenish, communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Thursday that John Kerry will pay a heavy political price for what he did. Lynne Cheney, the vice president’s wife, said, "This is a bad man." The crime? John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. The response from the Cheneys and the Bush campaign has been blatantly political. In fact, it is they who are using Mary Cheney — using her now to score points against Kerry and John Edwards over an issue on which they themselves are guilty of the wrongs that Kerry and Edwards are fighting against. Even after almost 30 years in Washington, I am surprised by the overwhelming hypocrisy and meanness of the Bush reelection campaign. Let’s review the facts. Before the election season, this administration opposed every initiative to offer equality for gay men and lesbians. Indeed, it has gone out of its way to be punitive, with such actions as the Office of Personnel Management’s announcement that the federal government has no intention of honoring the Clinton administration’s order to add sexual orientation to anti-discrimination rules in the federal government. After the debate, the vice president said of John Kerry: "This is a man who will say anything and do anything to get elected." Many people thought the same thing about Dick Cheney and President Bush on Feb. 24. That was the day the president announced to the country that heterosexual marriages are in trouble because gay people might someday have such a right in a few states. The crisis was so dire that he implored Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to permanently take away any rights gay men and lesbians might have to equal access to government benefits of marriage. The Republican leaderships in both houses of Congress brought this amendment to the floor. Anyone watching the debate would cringe at the dehumanizing and painful things said by Republican sponsors of the proposal about gay people. All of the Cheneys have sat back as senators and members of Congress who stood up for their position against the constitutional amendment were attacked in campaigns across the country. In Texas, North Dakota, South Carolina, Oklahoma, North Carolina and elsewhere, Republican candidates are using the gay issue against Democrats who have done nothing more than vote to protect the notion of fairness and equality in our Constitution. Where is the outrage of Dick and Lynne Cheney over this? In August, at a town meeting, the vice president was asked to speak from the heart about gay marriage. He did. He said he was against the constitutional amendment. And he expressed love for his daughter. The country was impressed. I think the record is pretty clear that fair-minded political leaders didn’t talk publicly about Mary Cheney until her father did. All of a sudden it was clear to John Kerry and John Edwards that if the Bush campaign tried to attack them on the gay marriage issue, they should just respond by saying they had the same position on this issue as Dick Cheney. That is certainly the advice I gave them. How dare the president criticize Kerry, as he did again the other night, for taking the same position as Dick Cheney? And we know that anti-gay messages are being promoted in many districts around the country to get out the evangelical vote for President Bush on Election Day. The silent but admirable Mary Cheney has remained a loyal daughter and foot soldier in this homophobic campaign. I feel sorry for her — sorry that she seems to now be a pawn in this race. But the perpetrator is not Kerry. This issue is in the campaign because Bush sought political advantage by using it all year. This week’s outrage rings so false it makes my ears hurt. _____ The writer is former chairman and chief executive of the Recording Industry Association of America and a volunteer for gay rights causes. (c) 2004 The Washington Post Company       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access             at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

Congratulations! You and Jim Anable are among the 20% of Americans who are so jaded and perverted in their asinine support of JOhn KErry that you weren’t offended by the Kerry/Edwards ‘Cheap Shot’ at Mary Cheny. The other 80% of Americans know that Kerry/Edwards proved themselves jerkwad assholes with the strategy designed to embarrass Bush/Cheny at the expense of an innocent victim. paul arizona

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. What part of this, exactly, do you take exception to? Everybody knew she’s gay. Are the Cheney’s ashamed of her? Or, do they NOT LIKE HAVING THEIR HYPOCRACY EXPOSED ????

Response:

Explain to us why it was a "cheap shot"?

Response:

"you lose asshole" ????  is showing.

Response:

Congratulations! You and Jim Anable are among the 20% of Americans who are so jaded and perverted in their asinine support of JOhn KErry that you weren’t offended by the Kerry/Edwards ‘Cheap Shot’ at Mary Cheny.

It wasn’t a cheap shot by any measure. It’s not as if anyone outed some shy teenager — Mary Cheney is an openly gay adult making her living in politics.   Americans have been once again misled by the GOP spin machine! The other 80% of Americans know that Kerry/Edwards proved themselves jerkwad assholes with the strategy designed to embarrass Bush/Cheny at the expense of an innocent victim.

There is nothing "innocent" about Mary Cheney.  She has been out as a lesbian for many years, has used her her family name combined with her well-known sexual orientation to land a job at a brewing company owned by a famous GOP donor as a "liason to the gay community" to help them sell beer, and is currently on the payroll of the Bush- Cheney campaign as an advisor — iow, she is a de facto public figure.  I wouldn’t be surprised if all this feigned outrage was *her* idea and a way of earning her keep in the family business!  After all, Edwards brought her up at the VP debate and got nothing but gratitude from dear old dad — why is it suddenly offensive now that the race is coming down to the wire? This is just a scared GOP campaign trying to distract people from an utterly failed and corrupt presidency — one that has used ignorant fear and loathing of gay people shamelessly as "wedge issue." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -paul arizona  John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. What part of this, exactly, do you take exception to? Everybody knew she’s gay. Are the Cheney’s ashamed of her? Or, do they NOT LIKE HAVING THEIR HYPOCRACY EXPOSED ????

       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access               at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen and yet nearly 80% of Americans found Kerry’s remarks to be offensive and out of line. Not just conservatives, not just Gay’s, but EVERYONE!

That’s because they naively believe that Mary Cheney was hiding her sexual orientation and that somehow Kerry "outed" her, which is patently untrue.   If she was closeted, I’d be pissed at Kerry too — but she’s been openly gay for many years and has even used her sexual orientation (combined with her family’s fame) to land a lucrative job! YOU LOSE, ASSHOLE!!!

Could be — they’ve lied their way to victory before and it unfortunately could happen again. Your guy is a first class jerk, and the American people saw that.

The American people saw nothing of the kind — they heard that hypocrite Lynne Cheney make believe she was an angry mother when in fact she’s just an angry political partisan who doesn’t mind lying about how she feels to help her party.   If mommy hadn’t whined about a non-existent offense, America wouldn’t have even noticed. Mark my words, JOhn KErry, dishonorably discharged traitor, lost the election with this comment. But you try to talk it down as much as you can. After all, he IS your guy, isn’t he? You and Hilary Rosen. About an equally matched pair mentally.

I’m willing to bet that both Ms. Rosen and I have three- digit IQs, if that’s what you mean.               – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -paul arizona washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A23 Nicolle Devenish, communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Thursday that John Kerry will pay a heavy political price for what he did. Lynne Cheney, the vice president’s wife, said, "This is a bad man." The crime? John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. The response from the Cheneys and the Bush campaign has been blatantly political. In fact, it is they who are using Mary Cheney — using her now to score points against Kerry and John Edwards over an issue on which they themselves are guilty of the wrongs that Kerry and Edwards are fighting against. Even after almost 30 years in Washington, I am surprised by the overwhelming hypocrisy and meanness of the Bush reelection campaign. Let’s review the facts. Before the election season, this administration opposed every initiative to offer equality for gay men and lesbians. Indeed, it has gone out of its way to be punitive, with such actions as the Office of Personnel Management’s announcement that the federal government has no intention of honoring the Clinton administration’s order to add sexual orientation to anti-discrimination rules in the federal government. After the debate, the vice president said of John Kerry: "This is a man who will say anything and do anything to get elected." Many people thought the same thing about Dick Cheney and President Bush on Feb. 24. That was the day the president announced to the country that heterosexual marriages are in trouble because gay people might someday have such a right in a few states. The crisis was so dire that he implored Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to permanently take away any rights gay men and lesbians might have to equal access to government benefits of marriage. The Republican leaderships in both houses of Congress brought this amendment to the floor. Anyone watching the debate would cringe at the dehumanizing and painful things said by Republican sponsors of the proposal about gay people. All of the Cheneys have sat back as senators and members of Congress who stood up for their position against the constitutional amendment were attacked in campaigns across the country. In Texas, North Dakota, South Carolina, Oklahoma, North Carolina and elsewhere, Republican candidates are using the gay issue against Democrats who have done nothing more than vote to protect the notion of fairness and equality in our Constitution. Where is the outrage of Dick and Lynne Cheney over this? In August, at a town meeting, the vice president was asked to speak from the heart about gay marriage. He did. He said he was against the constitutional amendment. And he expressed love for his daughter. The country was impressed. I think the record is pretty clear that fair-minded political leaders didn’t talk publicly about Mary Cheney until her father did. All of a sudden it was clear to John Kerry and John Edwards that if the Bush campaign tried to attack them on the gay marriage issue, they should just respond by saying they had the same position on this issue as Dick Cheney. That is certainly the advice I gave them. How dare the president criticize Kerry, as he did again the other night, for taking the same position as Dick Cheney? And we know that anti-gay messages are being promoted in many districts around the country to get out the evangelical vote for President Bush on Election Day. The silent but admirable Mary Cheney has remained a loyal daughter and foot soldier in this homophobic campaign. I feel sorry for her — sorry that she seems to now be a pawn in this race. But the perpetrator is not Kerry. This issue is in the campaign because Bush sought political advantage by using it all year. This week’s outrage rings so false it makes my ears hurt. _____ The writer is former chairman and chief executive of the Recording Industry Association of America and a volunteer for gay rights causes. (c) 2004 The Washington Post Company       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access             at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access               at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

Hey genius, do you happen to know the difference between an editorial column and a news report? Did the writer of that particular percentage actually inverview everyone in the the country to arrive at that figure accurately? BTW, what is the source for that "80%" figure? Your guy is a third class jerk and not the president. He was NEVER elected. We are NOT at war – it’s an occupation after an immoral invasion of a sovereign nation that was not even a threat to its own neighbors. Cheney has a GAY daughter! It’s common knowledge, but Duh-bya wants to deprive rights to gays. Duh-bya joined the national guard to get out of going to Vietnam. It’s common knowledge. You are a moron. You prove it publicly every time you post something here. Retard want a cracker?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen and yet nearly 80% of Americans found Kerry’s remarks to be offensive and out of line. Not just conservatives, not just Gay’s, but EVERYONE! YOU LOSE, ASSHOLE!!! Your guy is a first class jerk, and the American people saw that. Mark my words, JOhn KErry, dishonorably discharged traitor, lost the election with this comment. But you try to talk it down as much as you can. After all, he IS your guy, isn’t he? You and Hilary Rosen. About an equally matched pair mentally. paul arizona washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A23 Nicolle Devenish, communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Thursday that John Kerry will pay a heavy political price for what he did. Lynne Cheney, the vice president’s wife, said, "This is a bad man." The crime? John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. The response from the Cheneys and the Bush campaign has been blatantly political. In fact, it is they who are using Mary Cheney — using her now to score points against Kerry and John Edwards over an issue on which they themselves are guilty of the wrongs that Kerry and Edwards are fighting against. Even after almost 30 years in Washington, I am surprised by the overwhelming hypocrisy and meanness of the Bush reelection campaign. Let’s review the facts. Before the election season, this administration opposed every initiative to offer equality for gay men and lesbians. Indeed, it has gone out of its way to be punitive, with such actions as the Office of Personnel Management’s announcement that the federal government has no intention of honoring the Clinton administration’s order to add sexual orientation to anti-discrimination rules in the federal government. After the debate, the vice president said of John Kerry: "This is a man who will say anything and do anything to get elected." Many people thought the same thing about Dick Cheney and President Bush on Feb. 24. That was the day the president announced to the country that heterosexual marriages are in trouble because gay people might someday have such a right in a few states. The crisis was so dire that he implored Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to permanently take away any rights gay men and lesbians might have to equal access to government benefits of marriage. The Republican leaderships in both houses of Congress brought this amendment to the floor. Anyone watching the debate would cringe at the dehumanizing and painful things said by Republican sponsors of the proposal about gay people. All of the Cheneys have sat back as senators and members of Congress who stood up for their position against the constitutional amendment were attacked in campaigns across the country. In Texas, North Dakota, South Carolina, Oklahoma, North Carolina and elsewhere, Republican candidates are using the gay issue against Democrats who have done nothing more than vote to protect the notion of fairness and equality in our Constitution. Where is the outrage of Dick and Lynne Cheney over this? In August, at a town meeting, the vice president was asked to speak from the heart about gay marriage. He did. He said he was against the constitutional amendment. And he expressed love for his daughter. The country was impressed. I think the record is pretty clear that fair-minded political leaders didn’t talk publicly about Mary Cheney until her father did. All of a sudden it was clear to John Kerry and John Edwards that if the Bush campaign tried to attack them on the gay marriage issue, they should just respond by saying they had the same position on this issue as Dick Cheney. That is certainly the advice I gave them. How dare the president criticize Kerry, as he did again the other night, for taking the same position as Dick Cheney? And we know that anti-gay messages are being promoted in many districts around the country to get out the evangelical vote for President Bush on Election Day. The silent but admirable Mary Cheney has remained a loyal daughter and foot soldier in this homophobic campaign. I feel sorry for her — sorry that she seems to now be a pawn in this race. But the perpetrator is not Kerry. This issue is in the campaign because Bush sought political advantage by using it all year. This week’s outrage rings so false it makes my ears hurt. _____ The writer is former chairman and chief executive of the Recording Industry Association of America and a volunteer for gay rights causes. (c) 2004 The Washington Post Company       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access             at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations! You and Jim Anable are among the 20% of Americans who are so jaded and perverted in their asinine support of JOhn KErry that you weren’t offended by the Kerry/Edwards ‘Cheap Shot’ at Mary Cheny. It wasn’t a cheap shot by any measure. It’s not as if anyone outed some shy teenager — Mary Cheney is an openly gay adult making her living in politics.   Americans have been once again misled by the GOP spin machine! The other 80% of Americans know that Kerry/Edwards proved themselves jerkwad assholes with the strategy designed to embarrass Bush/Cheny at the expense of an innocent victim. There is nothing "innocent" about Mary Cheney.  She has been out as a lesbian for many years, has used her her family name combined with her well-known sexual orientation to land a job at a brewing company owned by a famous GOP donor as a "liason to the gay community" to help them sell beer, and is currently on the payroll of the Bush- Cheney campaign as an advisor — iow, she is a de facto public figure.  I wouldn’t be surprised if all this feigned outrage was *her* idea and a way of earning her keep in the family business!  After all, Edwards brought her up at the VP debate and got nothing but gratitude from dear old dad — why is it suddenly offensive now that the race is coming down to the wire? This is just a scared GOP campaign trying to distract people from an utterly failed and corrupt presidency — one that has used ignorant fear and loathing of gay people shamelessly as "wedge issue."

Bullshit, Brucie … how the hell can JOhn KErry actually know what Mary Cheney thinks?  Look at what he said, and then tell me he didn’t speak without authority on this issue. "And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney’s daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she’s being who she was. She’s being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it’s not a choice." How the hell can he think he has the authority to speak for someone else he has never talked to before?  Aside from that, why didn’t he use Dick Gephardt’s daughter as an example? Why didn’t he use Barney Frank?  Why didn’t he use any other gay person as an example?  Why did he have to use Mary Cheney?  It was obviously a concerted effort by both Johns to target Mary Cheney and "out" her to anyone (hardcore Conservatives, specifically) who didn’t already know. Lostpup198 "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There’s a knob called "brightness", but it doesn’t work." — Gallagher Comedian

Response:

Retard want a cracker?

your the only cracker here peckerwood! by the way, the point of having an open mind is not to be so open that your brains fall out. paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey genius, do you happen to know the difference between an editorial column and a news report? Did the writer of that particular percentage actually inverview everyone in the the country to arrive at that figure accurately? BTW, what is the source for that "80%" figure? Your guy is a third class jerk and not the president. He was NEVER elected. We are NOT at war – it’s an occupation after an immoral invasion of a sovereign nation that was not even a threat to its own neighbors. Cheney has a GAY daughter! It’s common knowledge, but Duh-bya wants to deprive rights to gays. Duh-bya joined the national guard to get out of going to Vietnam. It’s common knowledge. You are a moron. You prove it publicly every time you post something here. Retard want a cracker? washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen and yet nearly 80% of Americans found Kerry’s remarks to be offensive and out of line. Not just conservatives, not just Gay’s, but EVERYONE! YOU LOSE, ASSHOLE!!! Your guy is a first class jerk, and the American people saw that. Mark my words, JOhn KErry, dishonorably discharged traitor, lost the election with this comment. But you try to talk it down as much as you can. After all, he IS your guy, isn’t he? You and Hilary Rosen. About an equally matched pair mentally. paul arizona washingtonpost.com Outrage That Rings False By Hilary Rosen Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A23 Nicolle Devenish, communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Thursday that John Kerry will pay a heavy political price for what he did. Lynne Cheney, the vice president’s wife, said, "This is a bad man." The crime? John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God’s children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family. The response from the Cheneys and the Bush campaign has been blatantly political. In fact, it is they who are using Mary Cheney — using her now to score points against Kerry and John Edwards over an issue on which they themselves are guilty of the wrongs that Kerry and Edwards are fighting against. Even after almost 30 years in Washington, I am surprised by the overwhelming hypocrisy and meanness of the Bush reelection campaign. Let’s review the facts. Before the election season, this administration opposed every initiative to offer equality for gay men and lesbians. Indeed, it has gone out of its way to be punitive, with such actions as the Office of Personnel Management’s announcement that the federal government has no intention of honoring the Clinton administration’s order to add sexual orientation to anti-discrimination rules in the federal government. After the debate, the vice president said of John Kerry: "This is a man who will say anything and do anything to get elected." Many people thought the same thing about Dick Cheney and President Bush on Feb. 24. That was the day the president announced to the country that heterosexual marriages are in trouble because gay people might someday have such a right in a few states. The crisis was so dire that he implored Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to permanently take away any rights gay men and lesbians might have to equal access to government benefits of marriage. The Republican leaderships in both houses of Congress brought this amendment to the floor. Anyone watching the debate would cringe at the dehumanizing and painful things said by Republican sponsors of the proposal about gay people. All of the Cheneys have sat back as senators and members of Congress who stood up for their position against the constitutional amendment were attacked in campaigns across the country. In Texas, North Dakota, South Carolina, Oklahoma, North Carolina and elsewhere, Republican candidates are using the gay issue against Democrats who have done nothing more than vote to protect the notion of fairness and equality in our Constitution. Where is the outrage of Dick and Lynne Cheney over this? In August, at a town meeting, the vice president was asked to speak from the heart about gay marriage. He did. He said he was against the constitutional amendment. And he expressed love for his daughter. The country was impressed. I think the record is pretty clear that fair-minded political leaders didn’t talk publicly about Mary Cheney until her father did. All of a sudden it was clear to John Kerry and John Edwards that if the Bush campaign tried to attack them on the gay marriage issue, they should just respond by saying they had the same position on this issue as Dick Cheney. That is certainly the advice I gave them. How dare the president criticize Kerry, as he did again the other night, for taking the same position as Dick Cheney? And we know that anti-gay messages are being promoted in many districts around the country to get out the evangelical vote for President Bush on Election Day. The silent but admirable Mary Cheney has remained a loyal daughter and foot soldier in this homophobic campaign. I feel sorry for her — sorry that she seems to now be a pawn in this race. But the perpetrator is not Kerry. This issue is in the campaign because Bush sought political advantage by using it all year. This week’s outrage rings so false it makes my ears hurt. _____ The writer is former chairman and chief executive of the Recording Industry Association of America and a volunteer for gay rights causes. (c) 2004 The Washington Post Company       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access             at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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Paul, that was quite eloquent. Becoming your enemy are you?

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80% Your source please. Otherwise this is an example of How to lie with statistics.

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80% Your source please. Otherwise this is an example of How to lie with statistics.

Lol, I heard this one on MSNBC. I heard from a friend though that 73.44% of all statistics are made up on the spot, and MSNBC is not the most reliable fact checker in the business. I actually believe that the number is probably much higher. paul arizona

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Crikey!  Australia needs its own Lorena Bobbitt methinks. Matt 5:28: "Whoever looks at a woman to lust after has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  If your eye causes you to offend, pluck it out and throw it away."

I didn’t know Australians were into that kind of superstition.  I thought the Christian crazies were all clustered in the American South.   Maybe you should move to the Middle East and find out what that kind of civilization religious superstition will get you.   Boo.   — http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

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Crikey!  Australia needs its own Lorena Bobbitt methinks. Matt 5:28: "Whoever looks at a woman to lust after has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  If your eye causes you to offend, pluck it out and throw it away." I didn’t know Australians were into that kind of superstition.  I thought the Christian crazies were all clustered in the American South. Maybe you should move to the Middle East and find out what that kind of civilization religious superstition will get you.

And until Dario’s very strange post turned up looking like it comes from Oz, I would also have said that Australians weren’t into that sort of fundamentalist viewpoint either. We have had a very evident tilt to the right in our government and in our carefully nurtured "public opinion" over the past 10 years.  With an election later in the year we might find out whether those forces of anti-enlightenment and supression have come to stay.  I certainly hope not.

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For sure! Every single australian likes to drink beer if you don’t think like this go to Walkabout-Edinburgh and you will see it!!

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Maybe they don’t drink beer like long time ago. Nowadays they prefer as well vodka and whisky! Trust me I have been living in a hostel for a while and I know perfectly!

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Maybe they don’t drink beer like long time ago. Nowadays they prefer as well vodka and whisky! Trust me I have been living in a hostel for a while and I know perfectly!

You do? I haven’t seen that bloke for years! Next time you’re talking to Perfectly, can you tell him he still owes me $20?

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It’s pretty important stuff – the future of earth depends on it. Apparently German kids aren’t drinking enough leading the elders to panic about the state and health of their industry.

If they want more kids to drink, all they have to do is set a minimum drinking age. Ray

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Well bugger me!  (And no that isn’t an ivitation to any sort of sexual practice.  It is a very Australian expression that isn’t even considered swearing and which denotes a reaction of shock or amazement in response to something said or done and you’ve done it again Larry). Sigh.  When I was a young buck, I always preferred Australian girls.

Aaaah!  A sign of a man with great taste  My definition of summertime fun was one hand on a Sheila and the other on a beer.  However, I will sadly respect your maidenly decorum.  Let me respectfully buy you a beer, or two, or three.  ;

A very kind offer Larry and since I don’t drink very much at all you will be in for a very frugal ’shout’ for you.  I’ll have a Cascade Premium Light (the only beer that I copnsider is worth drinking – the rest are only fit for washing ones feet as far as I’m concerned) But "Sheila"!  Stone the bloody crows Larry, it’s been eons since I’ve heard a bloke say that – now it’s all "guys and chicks"!   What part was shocking and amazing? The fact that 2 countries in the "new world" could have had a rebellion involving booze It’s a small world, Fran.  For decades now, wheat prices in Oregon have depended on rains in Australia.

Now that I don’t understand.  I presume that with all that rain there is no wheat grown in Oregon, or if ther is it is soft wheat which isn’t a lot of use. Export or sell locally perhaps?  If we get lousy rains and therefore a poor harvest, the US can get better prices if it sells its wheat overseas, therefore higher prices for wheat in Oregon perhaps??????? We too had a rebeliiion involving booze but ours was called the "Rum Rebellion".  One of our Governors of the Colocny of NSW tried to stop the trading of Rum for goods.  The Governor was good old Captain Bligh (aka Mel Gibson for those who only understand their history from watching

movies). Aha!  I understand why Bligh had such an evil reputation.  Now that you have filled me in, I don’t like the man much myself.

)  Actually I don’t think he was too bad as far as Governorship was concerned – his officers (who rebelled) were very self interested.  Perhaps the best thing about him tho’  was that he was replaced with a Governor who had great vision and who saw the fledgling Colony as having a good future. That Governor left us some wonderful buildings (but he was replaced by the knuckleheads in the UK who thought he was spending too much on building!).

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Did I mention that I’m well into the codger zone?

I suspect that most of us here ahve reached the codger zone.  I know I’m just as happy to have a quiet meal at home as go out gallivanting.  :-))  I still remember how to show a lady a good time, though.  Fortunately, my wife is a tolerant sort, who views my philanderous ways with good humor.  Ah, who am I kidding?  She knows I’m harmless.

I wouldn’t test that theory too often Larry or you could end up wifeless and assetless.

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Crikey!  Australia needs its own Lorena Bobbitt methinks. Matt 5:28: "Whoever looks at a woman to lust after has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  If your eye causes you to offend, pluck it out and throw it away." — Regards, Dario Western "Don’t deceive yourselves – nobody makes a fool of God.  As you sow, you will reap."  Galatians 6:7 (Before e-mailing remove ‘nospam’) "The heart of man is deceitful and beyond cure.  Who can understand it?"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But "Sheila"!  Stone the bloody crows Larry, it’s been eons since I’ve heard a bloke say that – now it’s all "guys and chicks"! Did I mention that I’m well into the codger zone?  I still remember how to show a lady a good time, though.  Fortunately, my wife is a tolerant sort, who views my philanderous ways with good humor.  Ah, who am I kidding?  She knows I’m harmless. — http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

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But "Sheila"!  Stone the bloody crows Larry, it’s been eons since I’ve heard a bloke say that – now it’s all "guys and chicks"!

Did I mention that I’m well into the codger zone?  I still remember how to show a lady a good time, though.  Fortunately, my wife is a tolerant sort, who views my philanderous ways with good humor.  Ah, who am I kidding?  She knows I’m harmless.   — http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

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It’s pretty important stuff – the future of earth depends on it.

Apparently German kids aren’t drinking enough leading the elders to panic about the state and health of their industry. — monoburn http://www.thewaxconspiracy.com/ – mystic amusement

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, Australian wines are big in the supermarkets here on the West Coast.  Shiraz is becoming a popular dinner wine grape, and a lot of it seems to be grown around Alice Springs. I wonder what kind of whisky they brew in Australia?  I have never seen any of it here in the states, but I have never heard of an Anglo colony that didn’t immediately develop a brewing industry.  The first crisis of the new republic in America was the Whiskey Rebellion, when the feds first decided to tax white lightning. Well bugger me!  (And no that isn’t an ivitation to any sort of sexual practice.  It is a very Australian expression that isn’t even considered swearing and which denotes a reaction of shock or amazement in response to something said or done and you’ve done it again Larry).

Sigh.  When I was a young buck, I always preferred Australian girls.  My definition of summertime fun was one hand on a Sheila and the other on a beer.  However, I will sadly respect your maidenly decorum.  Let me respectfully buy you a beer, or two, or three.  ; What part was shocking and amazing?  It’s a small world, Fran.  For decades now, wheat prices in Oregon have depended on rains in Australia. We too had a rebeliiion involving booze but ours was called the "Rum Rebellion".  One of our Governors of the Colocny of NSW tried to stop the trading of Rum for goods.  The Governor was good old Captain Bligh (aka Mel Gibson for those who only understand their history from watching movies).

Aha!  I understand why Bligh had such an evil reputation.  Now that you have filled me in, I don’t like the man much myself.   — http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

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Hey, Australian wines are big in the supermarkets here on the West Coast.  Shiraz is becoming a popular dinner wine grape, and a lot of it seems to be grown around Alice Springs. I wonder what kind of whisky they brew in Australia?  I have never seen any of it here in the states, but I have never heard of an Anglo colony that didn’t immediately develop a brewing industry.  The first crisis of the new republic in America was the Whiskey Rebellion, when the feds first decided to tax white lightning.

Well bugger me!  (And no that isn’t an ivitation to any sort of sexual practice.  It is a very Australian expression that isn’t even considered swearing and which denotes a reaction of shock or amazement in response to something said or done and you’ve done it again Larry). We too had a rebeliiion involving booze but ours was called the "Rum Rebellion".  One of our Governors of the Colocny of NSW tried to stop the trading of Rum for goods.  The Governor was good old Captain Bligh (aka Mel Gibson for those who only understand their history from watching movies).

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It’s pretty important stuff – the future of earth depends on it.

Yes, but not as much as they once did.  As another person said it is a thirsty place, while we have hot summers no other beverage is likely to replace beer.  On the per capita consumption of alcohol Oz ranks about 10th, not far above USA, Canada and New Zealand but well below some European countries.  I cannot quickly find the beer consumption. David

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It’s pretty important stuff – the future of earth depends on it.

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It’s pretty important stuff – the future of earth depends on it.

Why are you worried the country will be turned into a nation of wine lovers instead?

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(John Leister) says… It’s pretty important stuff – the future of earth depends on it. Why are you worried the country will be turned into a nation of wine lovers instead?

Hey, Australian wines are big in the supermarkets here on the West Coast.  Shiraz is becoming a popular dinner wine grape, and a lot of it seems to be grown around Alice Springs. I wonder what kind of whisky they brew in Australia?  I have never seen any of it here in the states, but I have never heard of an Anglo colony that didn’t immediately develop a brewing industry.  The first crisis of the new republic in America was the Whiskey Rebellion, when the feds first decided to tax white lightning. However, I’m sure beer will continue to be the national drink of Australia, if only because it is wet.  That’s one thirsty country. — http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

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I saw a blurb about this in the dining section of our local paper. According to the label it’s brewed (by Karlsberg in Germany) in accordance with the German brewing laws. It’s not Guinness (but then what is?). Definitely does NOT taste like water. Heavy hops. Maybe even too heavy, which is something I never thought I’d hear myself say. 2.5 gm carb, 106 cal per 11.2 oz bottle. Over twice the price of Miller Lite, but I’m going to keep it in the act anyway. — 6/2/2003  181/164/164?

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I was reading an issue of Macleans Magazine that had a great article on low-carb beers. They assembled a panel of beer lovers and got them to taste many of the most popular brands.. The comments were not very complimentary about any of the beers except one which they all said was very good. That Beer was Grasshopper Beer from Rock Brewing Co. I haven’t tried it yet so I can’t give my own opinion on it. Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a blurb about this in the dining section of our local paper. According to the label it’s brewed (by Karlsberg in Germany) in accordance with the German brewing laws. It’s not Guinness (but then what is?). Definitely does NOT taste like water. Heavy hops. Maybe even too heavy, which is something I never thought I’d hear myself say. 2.5 gm carb, 106 cal per 11.2 oz bottle. Over twice the price of Miller Lite, but I’m going to keep it in the act anyway.

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The problem with this stuff is people are gonna say, "Wow, if I can eat these chips and drink booze….this low carb thing is for me!!!" The industry is setting people up for failure by making people think a diet based on this stuff will help you lose weight. I’m all for the occasional LC snack food…but I certainly wouldn’t base my menu around that stuff.

Snackwells and other low-fat treats have the same undermining effect for low-fat dieters.  Such snacks both are calorie-packed and allow a certain kind of would-be dieter to perpetuate poor eating habits – failure to moderate.  I know of what I speak because I used to eat Snackwells when I was on Weight Watchers.  Oh, it’s only 2 points a package, right?  but four packages later …  But the thing is, when I did that, it wasn’t because I was fooled by marketing; it was because I wasn’t committed to losing the weight, and preferred to eat cookies.  When I was serious on Weight Watchers, I ate things like Snackwells rarely if at all. Of course the difference is that the low-fat weight loss methodology is sufficiently entrenched that few people conclude low-fat is flawed and unhealthy when their low-fat plans fail with the contributions of such products, whereas someone who eats a low-carb candy bar and drinks a low-carb beer every day, and fails to keep to the program, may nevertheless blame his failure on some perceived flaw in low-carb itself. It may take more time, once the press attention on low-carb cools off and it returns to just one more way of eating that some people choose to get their health under control.  I think everyone who has thought an iota about nutrition knows in his or her heart that junk foods are bad for him or her, regardless of what the label says.  Folks who are ready to commit to getting healthy learn to read labels carefully and understand the choices they are making. carla 237/218/165?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Booze, snack chips join low-carb craze. Wed Jan 14, 6:50 AM ET By Theresa Howard, USA TODAY The low-carb juggernaut shows no signs of slowing as more food and beverage marketers shed carbs. — Ken "We spent alot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." – Bushisms, 2001

The problem with this stuff is people are gonna say, "Wow, if I can eat these chips and drink booze….this low carb thing is for me!!!" The industry is setting people up for failure by making people think a diet based on this stuff will help you lose weight. I’m all for the occasional LC snack food…but I certainly wouldn’t base my menu around that stuff. This type of marketing is the same as convincing overweight people who don’t exercise that Gatorade is great for them. In the end, they are consuming products not designed for them because the marketing tells them otherwise. — Norsk

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"The drinks, packaged like beer but sold under spirit brand names, have mostly been high-sugar, high-calorie drinks. Skyy Sport has 160 calories and 15 grams of carbs vs. 235 calories and 35 grams of carbs for Skyy Blue." 15 grams per drink?? That’s low carb??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Booze, snack chips join low-carb craze. Wed Jan 14, 6:50 AM ET By Theresa Howard, USA TODAY The low-carb juggernaut shows no signs of slowing as more food and beverage marketers shed carbs. On Thursday, Skyy Vodka and Miller will introduce Skyy Sport, a low-carb version of their flavored malt beverages. The drinks, packaged like beer but sold under spirit brand names, have mostly been high-sugar, high-calorie drinks. Skyy Sport has 160 calories and 15 grams of carbs vs. 235 calories and 35 grams of carbs for Skyy Blue. "The flavored malt beverage category is maturing a bit," says Keith Greggor, chief operating officer of Skyy Spirits, which markets the drinks in a venture with Miller Brewing. "People like to experiment and try different things. We’re giving them something that is unique." Skyy is joining a growing cadre of food and beverage makers eager to ride the popularity of carb-conscious diets led by the Atkins diet. Even if the trend is short term, marketers say they have to play. "Even if it lasts for a year, it’s important to take advantage of it," says Dave Burwick, senior vice president, chief marketing officer Pepsi-Cola North America. In January the division began to promote Diet Pepsi as "zero calories" and "zero carbohydrates," even though it never contained either. More new low-carb foods and drinks: .Juice and soft drinks. PepsiCo’s Tropicana introduced Light ‘n Healthy low-carb orange juice last week. Coke’s Minute Maid will launch a line of four fruit-flavored low-carb drinks under its brand in March. The drinks use Aspartame, Ace-K and Splenda sweeteners to get 5 calories and 1 gram of carbs per 8 ounces vs. 110 calories and 29 carbs for other Minute Maid non-fizzy soft drinks. Currently, diet brands account for 25% of carbonated soft-drink sales but just 8% of juice drinks. "If you look at it, what’s growing, it is diet," says Brad Goist, senior vice president, teas and emerging brands. .Snacks. Frito-Lay will announce Wednesday Doritos Edge and Tostitos Edge. The chips, in stores this spring, use soy proteins and fiber to lower carbohydrates to 9 grams per ounce vs. 17 grams for the traditional chips. "Innovation fuels our business, and we’re committed to delivering the type of innovation that continues to grow both our base business as well as our better-for-you business," said Stephen Quinn, chief marketing officer, Frito-Lay North America, in a statement. .Sauces. Unilever on Tuesday announced Carb Options, an 18-product line featuring low-carb versions of such brands as Ragu pasta sauces, Wish-Bone dressing, Lawry’s marinades, Lipton tea mixes and Skippy peanut butter. .Fast food. Burger King on Tuesday joined Subway and Carl’s Jr. in making its menu carb friendly. Though most sandwiches are now available without the bun, Burger King also introduced the Fire-Grilled Angus Steakburger Wrap. Regardless of the carb savings, the marketers agree on one thing: Taste matters. "We couldn’t make this a one-carb product," says Greggor about the citrus and cranberry flavored Skyy Sport. "It would taste like cardboard." — Ken "We spent alot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." – Bushisms, 2001

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It’s about time too, and the "even if it lasts for a year" is funny. I believe as more and more people give it a try, they’ll be convinced too. JMO. — Cheri Type 2, no meds for now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Booze, snack chips join low-carb craze. Wed Jan 14, 6:50 AM ET By Theresa Howard, USA TODAY The low-carb juggernaut shows no signs of slowing as more food and beverage marketers shed carbs. On Thursday, Skyy Vodka and Miller will introduce Skyy Sport, a low-carb version of their flavored malt beverages. The drinks, packaged like beer but sold under spirit brand names, have mostly been high-sugar, high-calorie drinks. Skyy Sport has 160 calories and 15 grams of carbs vs. 235 calories and 35 grams of carbs for Skyy Blue. "The flavored malt beverage category is maturing a bit," says Keith Greggor, chief operating officer of Skyy Spirits, which markets the drinks in a venture with Miller Brewing. "People like to experiment and try different things. We’re giving them something that is unique." Skyy is joining a growing cadre of food and beverage makers eager to ride the popularity of carb-conscious diets led by the Atkins diet. Even if the trend is short term, marketers say they have to play. "Even if it lasts for a year, it’s important to take advantage of it," says Dave Burwick, senior vice president, chief marketing officer Pepsi-Cola North America. In January the division began to promote Diet Pepsi as "zero calories" and "zero carbohydrates," even though it never contained either. More new low-carb foods and drinks: .Juice and soft drinks. PepsiCo’s Tropicana introduced Light ‘n Healthy low-carb orange juice last week. Coke’s Minute Maid will launch a line of four fruit-flavored low-carb drinks under its brand in March. The drinks use Aspartame, Ace-K and Splenda sweeteners to get 5 calories and 1 gram of carbs per 8 ounces vs. 110 calories and 29 carbs for other Minute Maid non-fizzy soft drinks. Currently, diet brands account for 25% of carbonated soft-drink sales but just 8% of juice drinks. "If you look at it, what’s growing, it is diet," says Brad Goist, senior vice president, teas and emerging brands. .Snacks. Frito-Lay will announce Wednesday Doritos Edge and Tostitos Edge. The chips, in stores this spring, use soy proteins and fiber to lower carbohydrates to 9 grams per ounce vs. 17 grams for the traditional chips. "Innovation fuels our business, and we’re committed to delivering the type of innovation that continues to grow both our base business as well as our better-for-you business," said Stephen Quinn, chief marketing officer, Frito-Lay North America, in a statement. .Sauces. Unilever on Tuesday announced Carb Options, an 18-product line featuring low-carb versions of such brands as Ragu pasta sauces, Wish-Bone dressing, Lawry’s marinades, Lipton tea mixes and Skippy peanut butter. .Fast food. Burger King on Tuesday joined Subway and Carl’s Jr. in making its menu carb friendly. Though most sandwiches are now available without the bun, Burger King also introduced the Fire-Grilled Angus Steakburger Wrap. Regardless of the carb savings, the marketers agree on one thing: Taste matters. "We couldn’t make this a one-carb product," says Greggor about the citrus and cranberry flavored Skyy Sport. "It would taste like cardboard." — Ken "We spent alot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." – Bushisms, 2001

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Booze, snack chips join low-carb craze. Wed Jan 14, 6:50 AM ET By Theresa Howard, USA TODAY The low-carb juggernaut shows no signs of slowing as more food and beverage marketers shed carbs. On Thursday, Skyy Vodka and Miller will introduce Skyy Sport, a low-carb version of their flavored malt beverages. The drinks, packaged like beer but sold under spirit brand names, have mostly been high-sugar, high-calorie drinks. Skyy Sport has 160 calories and 15 grams of carbs vs. 235 calories and 35 grams of carbs for Skyy Blue. "The flavored malt beverage category is maturing a bit," says Keith Greggor, chief operating officer of Skyy Spirits, which markets the drinks in a venture with Miller Brewing. "People like to experiment and try different things. We’re giving them something that is unique." Skyy is joining a growing cadre of food and beverage makers eager to ride the popularity of carb-conscious diets led by the Atkins diet. Even if the trend is short term, marketers say they have to play. "Even if it lasts for a year, it’s important to take advantage of it," says Dave Burwick, senior vice president, chief marketing officer Pepsi-Cola North America. In January the division began to promote Diet Pepsi as "zero calories" and "zero carbohydrates," even though it never contained either. More new low-carb foods and drinks: .Juice and soft drinks. PepsiCo’s Tropicana introduced Light ‘n Healthy low-carb orange juice last week. Coke’s Minute Maid will launch a line of four fruit-flavored low-carb drinks under its brand in March. The drinks use Aspartame, Ace-K and Splenda sweeteners to get 5 calories and 1 gram of carbs per 8 ounces vs. 110 calories and 29 carbs for other Minute Maid non-fizzy soft drinks. Currently, diet brands account for 25% of carbonated soft-drink sales but just 8% of juice drinks. "If you look at it, what’s growing, it is diet," says Brad Goist, senior vice president, teas and emerging brands. .Snacks. Frito-Lay will announce Wednesday Doritos Edge and Tostitos Edge. The chips, in stores this spring, use soy proteins and fiber to lower carbohydrates to 9 grams per ounce vs. 17 grams for the traditional chips. "Innovation fuels our business, and we’re committed to delivering the type of innovation that continues to grow both our base business as well as our better-for-you business," said Stephen Quinn, chief marketing officer, Frito-Lay North America, in a statement. .Sauces. Unilever on Tuesday announced Carb Options, an 18-product line featuring low-carb versions of such brands as Ragu pasta sauces, Wish-Bone dressing, Lawry’s marinades, Lipton tea mixes and Skippy peanut butter. .Fast food. Burger King on Tuesday joined Subway and Carl’s Jr. in making its menu carb friendly. Though most sandwiches are now available without the bun, Burger King also introduced the Fire-Grilled Angus Steakburger Wrap. Regardless of the carb savings, the marketers agree on one thing: Taste matters. "We couldn’t make this a one-carb product," says Greggor about the citrus and cranberry flavored Skyy Sport. "It would taste like cardboard." — Ken "We spent alot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." – Bushisms, 2001

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I’m searching for a new low carb beer that is coming or has come over from Europe.  I read about it somewhere, can’t remember the name or where I read it…  Anybody know about this beer? I just bought some of the new Rolling Rock Green Low carb beer, but haven’t tried it yet. What do you all like for low carb beer? Karen

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To hell with low carb beer!! ENJOY something GOOD sparangly and enjoy! Why dring something terrible  justbecause it’s low carb? Walt 205/176/165 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m searching for a new low carb beer that is coming or has come over from Europe.  I read about it somewhere, can’t remember the name or where I read it…  Anybody know about this beer? I just bought some of the new Rolling Rock Green Low carb beer, but haven’t tried it yet. What do you all like for low carb beer? Karen

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To hell with low carb beer!! ENJOY something GOOD sparangly and enjoy! Why dring something terrible  justbecause it’s low carb?

Guiness is Low Carb.  Beer doesn’t get much better than that! — *

I’ve heard that Sly and the Family Stone put on an incredible show. Have you ever seen them ? Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Wow to infinity (and beyond) !!! I’ve seen some interviews of Jimi on TV.  He seemed really laid back and open to a conversation with anyone.  He was a cool "cat"  :  ) Did you happen to have a camera around ? Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I’ve heard that Sly and the Family Stone put on an incredible show. Have you ever seen them ?

I never did get to see them. But one of them had a house down the street from my folks. Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw Jimi perform live twice in 1967 (Fillmore Auditorium) and 1968 (Berkeley Community Theater). Chip   :^)    ~And The Gods Made Love~ Awww man.  You saw all the great shows ! I saw alot of them. And I had panic disorder at the time, but loved the music so much I went to the concerts anyway. Jimi really did some nice studio work.  I didn’t appreciate that until I heard "Electric Ladyland".   I always knew he was a great showman live but I need to get more of his studio albums instead of relying on greatest hits compilations. I guess he shocked the world when he put out Electric Ladyland. I never bought any of his albums (LPs) after his first. Until the last several years, and then I have bought CDs of all his albums. He was trying to outdo the Beatles (Sgt Peppers) and the Beach Boys (Pet Sounds).  Must have been a great time to be alive for rock music fans :  ) I saw the Beach Boys live about 1965 or so. The 60’s was a great time for music. The music has been downhill pretty much since then for me.

As fond as I am of sixties rock music (and especially of the psychedelic sounds as I was *into* that scene) I think a lot of later rock is very good as well. It’s just *different*. Then we were young, now we’re…er..a bit older and I can imagine nostalgia playing part in this, e.g. extra-atistic qualities. But I remember buying oodles of punk and new wave records in the late seventies and early eighties and I went on collecting rock until this day although less so because one can’t have *everything* and at some point *world music* hit the scene. I already had some records with music from other cultures but now they became readily available here. So I bought and copied a lot of that. Of course the classical collction grew too. OTOH you can wake me up for Jefferson Airplane, Country Joe, H.P. Lovecraft, Grateful Dead, Vanilla Fudge etc.etc. and above all the Velvet Underground any time.  Now that I’ve moved I have all of them back again and I keep playing them. Philip Tony Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WOW !!!!! I just downloaded the album and listened to it today. I’ve heard the radio hits from it before but you really have to listen to the whole album from start to finish to get "The Experience" :  ) I wonder if there are any other "must have" albums out there. Tony ~ Yes, I’m Experienced :  ) How do you mean? It’s a hypothetical question. No answer required.  :  ) There are *hundreds* must have-albums out there though not by Hendrix. After his four or so regular albums (which *are* must have’s) he died and many vultures started selling their bad quality tapes on vinyl. I got some of those but they don’t do the man justice. OTOH I just videotaped his last concert (the Wight concert), a few months before his death, and this is really amazing as is his Woodstock performance (but less so). Philip I have tons of albums but somehow missed "Electric Ladyland".  Actually, I only have Jimi Hendrix compilations CDs as I wanted the songs I heard on the radio and never knew anyone that introduced me to the original albums. So it looks like I need to get: – Are You Experienced ? – Axis: Bold As Love Any others ? – First Rays of the New Rising Sun – Band of Gypsies

Band of Gypsies is OK too. (IMO DVD – Jimi Hendrix – Blue Wild Angel (Live at the Isle of Wight) (1970)

Yep, have that one, a great performance, especially when he really gets groovin’ after some time. Philip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow to infinity (and beyond) !!! I’ve seen some interviews of Jimi on TV.  He seemed really laid back and open to a conversation with anyone.  He was a cool "cat"  :  ) Did you happen to have a camera around ? Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

No cameras, just got the autographs and some great memories.   He was so laid back that it was difficult even communicating with him.   Even for us West Virginians, he talked sooooo slooooow… gt — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I saw Jimi perform live twice in 1967 (Fillmore Auditorium) and 1968 (Berkeley Community Theater). OMG, Chip. I think I would have fainted with the excitement. Jimi was my music god around those same years — I was ages 16-17 then. I liked to freak out my pop-music-loving suburban gal friends by blasting "Foxy Lady" on the little stereo in our basement playroom.  ;-) Was he as wonderful in person as I imagined? xxoo Anne

Hi, Anne. He was the most exciting and electrifying performer I have ever seen in my life! He had a huge stack of speakers behind him from which came a tremendously big sound. He played both lead and rhythmn guitar at the same time because his hands were so big and could reach around the neck of the guitar. I remember red and purple stripped pants and a coat with alot of ornamentation on it. All his body movements were extremely *cool* and I think that was a result of his Black heritage. "Purple Haze" was like #1 on the pop charts in 1967, and I saw him play it in person the night I saw him at the Filmore. He played the "National Anthem" when I saw him in Berkeley. He played part of it with his nose.  :)) Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I saw alot of them. And I had panic disorder at the time, but loved the music so much I went to the concerts anyway. I was too scared to go to concerts in my teens.  My first concert was ZZ Top, I loved their early blues stuff (bluejean blues, jesus just left chicago).  I was about 22 and went to see them with my first wife.  I had a panic/paranoia attack during the warm up show before they came on stage.  I passed out, and to add insult to injury, pissed myself while I was out cold.  Somehow got out of there and made it home.  Never did get to see ZZ top.

I had alot of PAs at the rock concerts I went to. In large part because they were "out of my territory" where I felt safe. It probably wouldn’t have been the music I liked anyway, their newer albums were already so different than their early stuff, they didn’t play blues any more.  That was it for concerts until some 15 years later, still I just couldn’t enjoy myself, except a few times when I was really drunk.  But then the next day I didn’t even remember what songs I heard.

I didn’t start using alcohol until after my concert going experiences were over. I stopped going to rock concerts in SF when they got so crowded I could hardly get out the door and therefore felt trapped. I wish I new how to find help back then.  Recently I did great at a blues fest!  Beer all around me yet I stayed sober.  I enjoyed myself! There is a light at the end of the tunnel after all.  :-)

Good for you. I have 25 years of sobriety coming up this October. Tono

Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I wonder if Stevie Ray Vaughan had a copy of Electric Ladyland  ;o) Well, Jimi was a huge idol of his. Have you heard Stevie’s cover of "Voodoo Chile"? People who knew both of them well said they thought SRV literally was channeling Jimi when he played it onstage… they got goosebumps. You knew I would answer this, huh, Tony!  ;-) xxoo Anne

Hehehehe… I had a feeling you might reply :  ) Yes.  I have heard many renditions of Stevie playing "Voodoo Chile". Eventually I will get around to converting my mp3 files, cleaning them up, and putting them on CD.  I’ll let you know when I do If you ever get to Seattle, the Experience Music Project (www.emplive.com) was basically built in honor of Jimi.  It’s too much to absorb in one day. You really need to go a few times.  People that live near there actually buy annual memberships. Stevie was definitely in touch with the essence of the blues.  I’ve heard many great musicians, including Clapton, rave about how he could jam on forever and still keep his solos fresh and interesting.  I don’t have the vocabulary or knowledge to fully describe his talent. Jimi was a pioneer in trying to find his "voice" through the state-of-the-art electronics at the time.  He would be like a kid in a candy store if he came back today and visited a music store with all the gizmos they have available for guitar players.  He would probably jam for 40 days and nights without thinking about food or water :  ) Thanks for replying :  ) Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Recently I did great at a blues fest!   Da blues is Da Cure!!!

Da Blues can even cure Da Blues! Some people think the blues is all sad music.  I think country music has more sad stories than the blues.  But then maybe that’s what country fans say about blues fans? Good for you Tono… for attending the concert *and* for staying sober. That must have been quite a test for you.

Thanks Anne.  The biggest test was the anticipitory axiety for weeks before it.  A few times I almost told the guy who went with me that I’m not going.  I stuck it out, and it went well.  I didn’t realize until the ride home how all the beer around me didn’t even seem to tempt me. And it was literally "all around me".  I don’t think I could have gone more than five to ten feet in any direction without seeing people drinking cup’s and pitchers of beer.  I laughed about it later, a recovering alki going to a concert sponsored by Latrobe Brewing Company!   And go figure, I had to "smuggle" in my bottles of seltzer water so I didn’t have to pay their price for bottled water.  I used to "smuggle" booze into concerts that were "dry".  Something is out of wack here! Yes, it’s probably me!  :-) I just thought of a title for an album.  "Still crazy after all these meds."  :-) Tono – who never wants to be "completly normal".  What a bore that would be! — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw alot of them. And I had panic disorder at the time, but loved the music so much I went to the concerts anyway. I was too scared to go to concerts in my teens.  My first concert was ZZ Top, I loved their early blues stuff (bluejean blues, jesus just left chicago).  I was about 22 and went to see them with my first wife.  I had a panic/paranoia attack during the warm up show before they came on stage.  I passed out, and to add insult to injury, pissed myself while I was out cold.  Somehow got out of there and made it home.  Never did get to see ZZ top. I had alot of PAs at the rock concerts I went to. In large part because they were "out of my territory" where I felt safe.

I’m glad you were able to fight the fear and go anyway.  Sounds like you have seen a lot many can only dream of. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It probably wouldn’t have been the music I liked anyway, their newer albums were already so different than their early stuff, they didn’t play blues any more.  That was it for concerts until some 15 years later, still I just couldn’t enjoy myself, except a few times when I was really drunk.  But then the next day I didn’t even remember what songs I heard. I didn’t start using alcohol until after my concert going experiences were over. I stopped going to rock concerts in SF when they got so crowded I could hardly get out the door and therefore felt trapped. I wish I new how to find help back then.  Recently I did great at a blues fest!  Beer all around me yet I stayed sober.  I enjoyed myself! There is a light at the end of the tunnel after all.  :-) Good for you. I have 25 years of sobriety coming up this October.

Congratulations Chip!  I’m aproaching 21 months!  Before that, 1 day had been my longest dry spell in many years.  Some people feel that even prescription drugs are a "cop out", but I know damn well that if I weren’t properly medicated, I’d either be drunk or dead.  It’s taken a hell of a long time, but it’s really nice to have things to look forward to. Tono — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Recently I did great at a blues fest!  

Da blues is Da Cure!!! Good for you Tono… for attending the concert *and* for staying sober. That must have been quite a test for you. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Hi, Anne. He was the most exciting and electrifying performer I have ever seen in my life!

Wow, Chip. So glad you got to see him! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I wonder if Stevie Ray Vaughan had a copy of Electric Ladyland  ;o)

Well, Jimi was a huge idol of his. Have you heard Stevie’s cover of "Voodoo Chile"? People who knew both of them well said they thought SRV literally was channeling Jimi when he played it onstage… they got goosebumps. You knew I would answer this, huh, Tony!  ;-) xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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What a day!!!!… Without electricity in the motel room, I heard some of the best picking that I have ever or will ever here.

<speechless with awe and envy He surely had the gift. What a wonderful memory, gt. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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WOW !!!!! I just downloaded the album and listened to it today. I’ve heard the radio hits from it before but you really have to listen to the whole album from start to finish to get "The Experience" :  ) I wonder if there are any other "must have" albums out there. Tony ~ Yes, I’m Experienced :  ) — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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WOW !!!!! I just downloaded the album and listened to it today. I’ve heard the radio hits from it before but you really have to listen to the whole album from start to finish to get "The Experience" :  ) I wonder if there are any other "must have" albums out there. Tony ~ Yes, I’m Experienced :  )

I saw Jimi perform live twice in 1967 (Fillmore Auditorium) and 1968 (Berkeley Community Theater). Chip   :^)     ~And The Gods Made Love~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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WOW !!!!! I just downloaded the album and listened to it today. I’ve heard the radio hits from it before but you really have to listen to the whole album from start to finish to get "The Experience" :  ) I wonder if there are any other "must have" albums out there. Tony ~ Yes, I’m Experienced :  )

How do you mean? There are *hundreds* must have-albums out there though not by Hendrix. After his four or so regular albums (which *are* must have’s) he died and many vultures started selling their bad quality tapes on vinyl. I got some of those but they don’t do the man justice. OTOH I just videotaped his last concert (the Wight concert), a few months before his death, and this is really amazing as is his Woodstock performance (but less so). Philip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WOW !!!!! I just downloaded the album and listened to it today. I’ve heard the radio hits from it before but you really have to listen to the whole album from start to finish to get "The Experience" :  ) I wonder if there are any other "must have" albums out there. Tony ~ Yes, I’m Experienced :  ) I saw Jimi perform live twice in 1967 (Fillmore Auditorium) and 1968 (Berkeley Community Theater). Chip   :^)     ~And The Gods Made Love~

Awww man.  You saw all the great shows ! Jimi really did some nice studio work.  I didn’t appreciate that until I heard "Electric Ladyland".   I always knew he was a great showman live but I need to get more of his studio albums instead of relying on greatest hits compilations. I guess he shocked the world when he put out Electric Ladyland. He was trying to outdo the Beatles (Sgt Peppers) and the Beach Boys (Pet Sounds).  Must have been a great time to be alive for rock music fans :  ) Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I saw Jimi perform live twice in 1967 (Fillmore Auditorium) and 1968 (Berkeley Community Theater). Chip   :^)     ~And The Gods Made Love~ Awww man.  You saw all the great shows !

I saw alot of them. And I had panic disorder at the time, but loved the music so much I went to the concerts anyway. Jimi really did some nice studio work.  I didn’t appreciate that until I heard "Electric Ladyland".   I always knew he was a great showman live but I need to get more of his studio albums instead of relying on greatest hits compilations. I guess he shocked the world when he put out Electric Ladyland.

I never bought any of his albums (LPs) after his first. Until the last several years, and then I have bought CDs of all his albums. He was trying to outdo the Beatles (Sgt Peppers) and the Beach Boys (Pet Sounds).  Must have been a great time to be alive for rock music fans :  )

I saw the Beach Boys live about 1965 or so. The 60’s was a great time for music. The music has been downhill pretty much since then for me. Tony

Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I saw Jimi perform live twice in 1967 (Fillmore Auditorium) and 1968 (Berkeley Community Theater).

OMG, Chip. I think I would have fainted with the excitement. Jimi was my music god around those same years — I was ages 16-17 then. I liked to freak out my pop-music-loving suburban gal friends by blasting "Foxy Lady" on the little stereo in our basement playroom.  ;-) Was he as wonderful in person as I imagined? xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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WOW !!!!! I just downloaded the album and listened to it today. I’ve heard the radio hits from it before but you really have to listen to the whole album from start to finish to get "The Experience" :  ) I wonder if there are any other "must have" albums out there. Tony ~ Yes, I’m Experienced :  ) How do you mean?

It’s a hypothetical question. No answer required.  :  ) There are *hundreds* must have-albums out there though not by Hendrix. After his four or so regular albums (which *are* must have’s) he died and many vultures started selling their bad quality tapes on vinyl. I got some of those but they don’t do the man justice. OTOH I just videotaped his last concert (the Wight concert), a few months before his death, and this is really amazing as is his Woodstock performance (but less so). Philip

I have tons of albums but somehow missed "Electric Ladyland".  Actually, I only have Jimi Hendrix compilations CDs as I wanted the songs I heard on the radio and never knew anyone that introduced me to the original albums. So it looks like I need to get: – Are You Experienced ? – Axis: Bold As Love Any others ? – First Rays of the New Rising Sun – Band of Gypsies DVD – Jimi Hendrix – Blue Wild Angel (Live at the Isle of Wight) (1970) Those familiar with the original Isle of Wight DVD/VHS release will be pleasantly surprised by Blue Wild Angel. For one thing, the soundtrack has been remixed in both stereo and 5.1 surround. Hendrix’s legendary Isle of Wight show may have been notoriously riddled with technical difficulties, but in all honesty, it is one of his better live recordings, and Eddie Kramer’s remix sounds superb. Next, Blue Wild Angel includes many songs missing from the original release such as "Lover Man," "Foxey Lady," "Message to Love," "Ezy Rider," and "Purple Haze." By far the highlights of the performance are the mesmerizing, newly unedited versions of "Red House" and "Machine Gun." Finally, as an added bonus, the concert is introduced by a mini documentary about Hendrix’s involvement with the Isle of Wight festival. This introduction is told through new interviews with Mitch Mitchell, Billy Cox, and Eddie Kramer and footage from Murray Lerner’s Message to Love: The Isle of Wight Festival rockumentary. Blue Wild Angel is a great addition to any Hendrix fan’s collection. –Rob Bracco From the Back Cover

Blue Wild Angel: Jimi Hendrix Live at the Isle of Wight documents the guitarist’s legendary performance before 600,000 people at this massive outdoor music and arts festival in August 1970. This unforgettable concert experience draws heavily upon Academy Award-winning director Murray Lerner’s vast archive of previously unseen performance footage and presents some of Hendrix’s finest ever concert performances, including extended takes of "Machine Gun," "Red House," and other favorites such as "All Along the Watchtower," "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)," and a unique medley of "God Save the Queen" and "Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band." New interviews with Jimi Hendrix Experience band members Mitch Mitchell, Billy Cox, and others set the stage for the concert footage that follows. In addition to providing the definitive look at tone of the landmark events in Hendrix’s storied career, Blue Wild Angel features both a stereo and 5.1 audio surround soundtrack newly mixed by Hendrix’s original recording engineer Eddie Kramer. Songs: God Save the Queen, Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, Spanish Castle Magic, All Along the Watchtower, Machine Gun, Lover Man, Freedom, Red House, Dolly Dagger, Foxey Lady, Message to Love, Ezy Ryder, Purple Haze, Voodoo Child (Slight Return), In from the Storm. — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I saw Jimi perform live twice in 1967 (Fillmore Auditorium) and 1968 (Berkeley Community Theater). OMG, Chip. I think I would have fainted with the excitement. Jimi was my music god around those same years — I was ages 16-17 then. I liked to freak out my pop-music-loving suburban gal friends by blasting "Foxy Lady" on the little stereo in our basement playroom.  ;-) Was he as wonderful in person as I imagined? xxoo Anne

I wonder if Stevie Ray Vaughan had a copy of Electric Ladyland  ;o) Musicians can "mine" their songs for an entire career based on one song from one of the geniuses that passes through every now and then. Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I saw alot of them. And I had panic disorder at the time, but loved the music so much I went to the concerts anyway.

I was too scared to go to concerts in my teens.  My first concert was ZZ Top, I loved their early blues stuff (bluejean blues, jesus just left chicago).  I was about 22 and went to see them with my first wife.  I had a panic/paranoia attack during the warm up show before they came on stage.  I passed out, and to add insult to injury, pissed myself while I was out cold.  Somehow got out of there and made it home.  Never did get to see ZZ top.  It probably wouldn’t have been the music I liked anyway, their newer albums were already so different than their early stuff, they didn’t play blues any more.  That was it for concerts until some 15 years later, still I just couldn’t enjoy myself, except a few times when I was really drunk.  But then the next day I didn’t even remember what songs I heard. I wish I new how to find help back then.  Recently I did great at a blues fest!  Beer all around me yet I stayed sober.  I enjoyed myself! There is a light at the end of the tunnel after all.  :-) Tono — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WOW !!!!! I just downloaded the album and listened to it today. I’ve heard the radio hits from it before but you really have to listen to the whole album from start to finish to get "The Experience" :  ) I wonder if there are any other "must have" albums out there. Tony ~ Yes, I’m Experienced :  ) — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Strange but true, Jimi came to Charleston, WV in the late 60’s.  We met him at the airport (he was on a commercial flight but still stoned). He refused to get onto the airport limo until they brought him his "left handed guitar".  the funny thing about this wa that he would set a guitar on fire in his act and destroy it.  Evidently, he took care of hie baby.  For you Jimi nerds, yes he played right handed backwards.   The comment confused me then. We followed him to the Heart of Town Hotel.  About 20 of us sat in his room as he demonstrated techniques and tried to teach the local picker (Randall Wray, I think) how to do it.  After about three hours he ran us out. I was with a group of 5 guys.  Jimi asked us what we called ourselves.   We had no answer, but one of my friends said we are the Tribe. We continued sitting in the lounge with Mitch and Noel for about five more hours. All autographs obtained. The concert that night was in the Charleston Civic Center.  I think it held about 15000.  There were about 5000 at the concert (soul music was king then). Jimi dedicated a song to some good guys he had met today.  He said that they call themselves something like American Indian.  We assumed that was the tribe.  The song was "Hey Joe", if I remember correctly (maybe not). What a day!!!! Jimi was stoned, but oh so talented.  Without electricity in the motel room, I heard some of the best picking that I have ever or will ever here. What a frigging talent. gt — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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I’m a little scared to ask… sometimes I just need one.   Any ideas?  Above 10? 15? — *

Everyone I know on LC (including me) that drinks anything besides beer gets VERY drunk VERY quickly.  Be careful!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure of the number of hours it will take to get it out of your system but I will show in ketosis on the very next day after I drink no/low carb alcoholic beverages. Also, I’ve heard (not the case for me) that some people get drunk much faster than before LC.  This could be a benefit as far as I can tell LOL Have fun and be safe! — Best of luck, ~*~Pie~*~ 254/196/150 I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120        5′2"    6/10/03

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I am going to drink beer Friday night

Now that sounds like a good idea!  ;-) Mr C

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Everyone I know on LC (including me) that drinks anything besides beer gets VERY drunk VERY quickly.  Be careful!

Yes, marvellous, isn’t it?  I somebody had told me of this wonderful side effect of LC, I’d have tried it YEARS ago! Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure of the number of hours it will take to get it out of your system but I will show in ketosis on the very next day after I drink no/low carb alcoholic beverages. Also, I’ve heard (not the case for me) that some people get drunk much faster than before LC.  This could be a benefit as far as I can tell LOL Have fun and be safe! — Best of luck, ~*~Pie~*~ 254/196/150 I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120       5′2"   6/10/03

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I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your

body, If we’re talking weight loss beer haven’t been a problem for me. I’ve lost pretty well. Of course, if I didn’t touch the stuff I’m sure weight loss would have been even quicker. But if you can’t drink good beer then what’s the point? All of the above applies to wine too. The effects? Like it used to be. But watch out if you’ve been on the water wagon for a long time – your liver might not find a sudden beer shock amusing — Vad Paleo/Neanderthin since Oct. 2002 Eats meat, vegetables and fruit, nothing more, nothing less. (Most of the time)

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says… I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri

A beer or two should be okay (YMMV). Personally I never bothered with the low carb, budmilloors, watered down, beer substitute crap but then I am a little biased. Also some low carbers have reported suffering from "cheap date syndrome" which can be a bad thing…or not depending on perspective — 370/308/270 Confirmed Meatatarian email: My foot isn’t medium, it’s big.

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Apparently Guinness stout has less carbs than regular beer, but I can’t find the number of grams anywhere. Does anyone know what it is? tia.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120        5′2"    6/10/03

Response:

About 5.33 carbs per 12-ounce serving. The problem with Guinness is draft (lower carbs) vs. bottled (higher carbs) and the fact the beer is brewed in various parts of the world where ingredients and brewing techniques might differ. In Australia, Foster’s has a 12-ounce serving of "draught" at 12.78 but bottles contain 17.40 carbs. As I’ve warned in my newsletter, it might be better to avoid the bottled version or just stick with the draft version and take the highest carb count. Besides, there are a lot of regular brewed beers out there that are under 10 carbs. Bob Skilnik www.drinkbeergetthindiet.com Moderation, Not Deprivation – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently Guinness stout has less carbs than regular beer, but I can’t find the number of grams anywhere. Does anyone know what it is? tia. I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120        5′2"    6/10/03

Response:

Thanks Bob. I prefer the draft cans with the widget….tastes "just pulled".

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About 5.33 carbs per 12-ounce serving. The problem with Guinness is draft (lower carbs) vs. bottled (higher carbs) and the fact the beer is brewed in various parts of the world where ingredients and brewing techniques might differ. In Australia, Foster’s has a 12-ounce serving of "draught" at 12.78 but bottles contain 17.40 carbs. As I’ve warned in my newsletter, it might be better to avoid the bottled version or just stick with the draft version and take the highest carb count. Besides, there are a lot of regular brewed beers out there that are under 10 carbs. Bob Skilnik www.drinkbeergetthindiet.com Moderation, Not Deprivation Apparently Guinness stout has less carbs than regular beer, but I can’t find the number of grams anywhere. Does anyone know what it is? tia. I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120        5′2"    6/10/03

Response:

I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months?

Life is too short not to enjoy it.  One day, two days, it really doesn’t matter as long as you stick to the plan the rest of the time. dave h

Response:

You don’t have to drink light beer the rest of your life. If you’re more concerned about the alcohol and it’s effects (light and regular beers are about the same level of alcohol), grab a few regular brewed beers and live a little! Bob Skilnik www.drinkbeergetthindiet.com Moderation, not deprivation

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120        5′2"    6/10/03

Response:

Not sure of the number of hours it will take to get it out of your system but I will show in ketosis on the very next day after I drink no/low carb alcoholic beverages. Also, I’ve heard (not the case for me) that some people get drunk much faster than before LC.  This could be a benefit as far as I can tell LOL Have fun and be safe! — Best of luck, ~*~Pie~*~ 254/196/150

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120        5′2"    6/10/03

Response:

I am going to drink beer Friday night.  I intend on only drinking 4 or 5. The beer I am drinking has 3 carbs a can/bottle. I know how your body will not burn fat while there is alcohol in your body, and that it burns the alcohol first.  So, it should take about 10 hours to get the alcohol out of my system correct? And 10 hours isnt really that big of a deal is it?  Since I am not drank at all, nor have I gone off induction in over two months? Thanks, Kerri — *****Kerri***** 154/129/120        5′2"    6/10/03

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brewing houses are always having this problem of clogging issues. Where does Diet Coke fit in? Post something useful… A friend of mine has shared an interesting experience with diet cola.  She is a manager for a major hotel-hospitality chain. She says that the sodas  are fed through pipes and hoses from a central area to the different  restaurants and snack bars in the hotel. This central area contains big containers  of soda syrops that are mixed with water and CO2 and are also cooled by a refrigeration system. She has noticed instances when the hoses hooked up  to the diet cola syrop bottles have gotten plugged up. When that happens, a service person is called in to unclog the hoses so they can resume  access to the diet cola. She says that this happens in intervals ranging from 6 months, to 1 year or 2 years. And it only occurs with the diet cola.  That makes one wonder: is it  the aspartame in the diet cola that causes the hoses to clog up? And if it is, what effect can this have on the human  body? Several scientists have said that we are still in the early stages of research in this area (the effects of aspartame). In other words, time  will tell whether the benefits of diet cola will outweigh its effects. That’s something to think about. John, may I call you John, I’d really appreciate it if you’d post something that’s actually factual rather than this baloney conjecture. And I’d really appreciate it if you’d peddle your secrets to weight maintenance elsewhere. The secrets are here, I guess: http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Just one guy’s opinion here. I can’t speak for anyone else. The Diet coke thing happens to other flavors and brands as well. In my restaurants, we cleaned all our lines monthly and it should be done for sanitation reasons at least that often and check the brix on the machines at the same time. Non-diet soda syrups contain sugar which can ferment or crystallize. Diet sodas have no sugar, so they have other ingredients like gums to make them feel right in our mouths, and they can aggregate. You might ask if they use figals or boxes for their syrups and how many jumps they rig. Your friend will understand all these technical terms. But ask, just for curiosity’s sake. High volume operation like that and they don’t clean their lines until they clog? Hmmmmmmm I’d appreciate it if you could get me in touch with those several scientists you mention so I can ask them some questions. Pastorio — John Tiniakos http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Tired of diets that fail? Finally-there is an answer to permanent weight loss. I just spoke to my friend that gave me the diet cola story. True, she said, other soda flavors, as well as beer, also clog the lines. But diet cola causes the most problems by far.

Seems like a slightly different story than you told at first. This is simply crap.  She said, even the service repair person that cleans the lines complained that this is a common problem with many other similar establishments.

John, I’ve been in foodservice for more than 3 decades. Clogged lines are a sign of bad sanitation practices. This is simply crap. About the sweetener topic-studies done on sweeteners have shown that aspartame and acesuleame-k when consumed in moderate quantities are safe. Although since these products haven’t been around for along time, it is difficult to say-according to scientists-

Lose the "according to scientists" unless you name them. This is simply crap. what effects these could have by the later stages of a subjects life.

Obviously you don’t know how long they’re been available and how they’ve been studied. This is simply crap. In other words they haven’t gotten the entire picture yet. Although, there are so many conflicting studies constantly going on, that it’s hard to come up with a solid conlusion. And when you do, another study-it seems-shoots down that theory.

Generalizations with no substantial utility. Nothing to do with this non-information. This is simply crap. Another sweetener, saccharin,  has been shown to cause cancer in animals, and therefore is subject to controversy, but is still sold in stores. On the other hand, cyclamate- yet another sweetener-has been banned in the US.

John go away. You’re talking ignorant crap and the only reason you’re here is to sell your diet program. You haven’t posted anything supportive, constructive, informative or anything other than crap. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. Pastorio

Response:

<snip Another sweetener, saccharin,  has been shown to cause cancer in animals, and therefore is subject to controversy, but is still sold in stores. On the other hand, cyclamate- yet another sweetener-has been banned in the US.

Ya know, I hear cancer is hereditary in lab mice. revek

Response:

<snip Another sweetener, saccharin,  has been shown to cause cancer in animals, and therefore is subject to controversy, but is still sold in stores. On the other hand, cyclamate- yet another sweetener-has been banned in the US. Ya know, I hear cancer is hereditary in lab mice.

Not only that, it causes male pattern baldness in researchers. Um, male researchers… No. seriously… I bought some cyclamates in Canada and smuggled them over the border right out in the open on the back seat of my van. I feel like such a master criminal. Next, I may bring back some cheese or wine or something. Maybe postcards to prove I was there. Cyclamates are banned in the US because of some profoundly spurious "research" in the 60s. Pastorio

Response:

Hi, I was drinking Diet Pepsi by the liter … then I read the Atkins diet book. He strongly recommends not using any products with Aspartame in it.  After reading that, I did some research on the Internet on why I shouldn’t …. I came across this website. http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/ Dr. Atkins implied that not only is aspartame dangerous, but it also inhibits weight loss on his diet. I’m not pushing anything.  Just putting this out since there’s a thread on aspartame.  The warning on sacharrine causing cancer has been revised and it is no longer on the "real bad for you" list.  Atkins recommends the use of Splenda or Sweet n Low as an artificial sweetener safe to use that doesn’t sabotage the diet. Regards, Suzanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Another sweetener, saccharin,  has been shown to cause cancer in animals, and therefore is subject to controversy, but is still sold in stores. On the other hand, cyclamate- yet another sweetener-has been banned in the US. Ya know, I hear cancer is hereditary in lab mice. Not only that, it causes male pattern baldness in researchers. Um, male researchers… No. seriously… I bought some cyclamates in Canada and smuggled them over the border right out in the open on the back seat of my van. I feel like such a master criminal. Next, I may bring back some cheese or wine or something. Maybe postcards to prove I was there. Cyclamates are banned in the US because of some profoundly spurious "research" in the 60s. Pastorio

Response:

Really John, that is one of the bigger stretches i have ever seen. the syrup that makes soft drinks stops up and therefore it must stop up your body, and is somehow related to aspartame.  That is such a stretch.  Artificial sweeteners are some of the worlds most researched food additives.  They have done countless studies on aspartame and all have found aspartame safe.  the NIH did one just last year that found that apsartame is safe.  this is one thing people just need to let go.

Response:

Hi, Dr. Atkins, in his diet book recommends against anything containing aspartame.  In his section called "Engine Stalled?  How to Get Past a Plateau", he says "Avoid aspartame.  Although the cause is as yet unknown, clinical observations show that certain individuals find weight loss slows with excessive intake of aspartame, the artificial sweetener sold as NutraSweet and Equal. Regards, Suzanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really John, that is one of the bigger stretches i have ever seen. the syrup that makes soft drinks stops up and therefore it must stop up your body, and is somehow related to aspartame.  That is such a stretch.  Artificial sweeteners are some of the worlds most researched food additives.  They have done countless studies on aspartame and all have found aspartame safe.  the NIH did one just last year that found that apsartame is safe.  this is one thing people just need to let go.

Response:

Hey, I ORDER cyclamates online and have them SHIPPED from Canada! How do you like that? It’s a wonder the FBI is not yet on my doorstep. Debbie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought some cyclamates in Canada and smuggled them over the border right out in the open on the back seat of my van. I feel like such a master criminal. Next, I may bring back some cheese or wine or something. Maybe postcards to prove I was there.

Response:

A notoriously and infamously spurious website. Debbie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – reading that, I did some research on the Internet on why I shouldn’t …. I came across this website. http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/

Response:

 Artificial sweeteners are some of the worlds most researched food additives.  They have done countless studies on aspartame and all have found aspartame safe.  the NIH did one just last year that found that apsartame is safe.  this is one thing people just need to let go.

When I was on low-fat I was POSITIVE that aspartame gave me headaches. Never once paying attention that it might be the rice and other carbs with hardly no protein or fat that I was eating WITH the diet coke that was giving me the headache.  Since I’ve been LC I am not a huge user of sugar substitutes but I do use it in an occasional decaf coffee or iced tea and sometimes I do have a soda and it has never given me a headache.

Response:

Perhaps … but it was only one of many negative articles on websites that I read, and since there are so many other alternatives.  That, combined with Atkins recommendation against using anything with aspartame in it convinced me to use alternatives. Regards, Suzanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A notoriously and infamously spurious website. Debbie reading that, I did some research on the Internet on why I shouldn’t …. I came across this website. http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/

Response:

Yes but that’s different than claiming aspartame is a toxin, and it will "stop up" the body. revek In our last episode, Suzanne said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Dr. Atkins, in his diet book recommends against anything containing aspartame.  In his section called "Engine Stalled?  How to Get Past a Plateau", he says "Avoid aspartame.  Although the cause is as yet unknown, clinical observations show that certain individuals find weight loss slows with excessive intake of aspartame, the artificial sweetener sold as NutraSweet and Equal. Regards, Suzanne Really John, that is one of the bigger stretches i have ever seen. the syrup that makes soft drinks stops up and therefore it must stop up your body, and is somehow related to aspartame.  That is such a stretch.  Artificial sweeteners are some of the worlds most researched food additives.  They have done countless studies on aspartame and all have found aspartame safe.  the NIH did one just last year that found that apsartame is safe.  this is one thing people just need to let go.

Response:

Absolultely … that is pure fiction. Regards, Suzanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes but that’s different than claiming aspartame is a toxin, and it will "stop up" the body. revek In our last episode, Suzanne said: Hi, Dr. Atkins, in his diet book recommends against anything containing aspartame.  In his section called "Engine Stalled?  How to Get Past a Plateau", he says "Avoid aspartame.  Although the cause is as yet unknown, clinical observations show that certain individuals find weight loss slows with excessive intake of aspartame, the artificial sweetener sold as NutraSweet and Equal. Regards, Suzanne Really John, that is one of the bigger stretches i have ever seen. the syrup that makes soft drinks stops up and therefore it must stop up your body, and is somehow related to aspartame.  That is such a stretch.  Artificial sweeteners are some of the worlds most researched food additives.  They have done countless studies on aspartame and all have found aspartame safe.  the NIH did one just last year that found that apsartame is safe.  this is one thing people just need to let go.

Response:

A friend of mine has shared an interesting experience with diet cola. She is a manager for a major hotel-hospitality chain. She says that the sodas are fed through pipes and hoses from a central area to the different restaurants and snack bars in the hotel. This central area contains big containers of soda syrops that are mixed with water and CO2 and are also cooled by a refrigeration system. She has noticed instances when the hoses hooked up to the diet cola syrop bottles have gotten plugged up. When that happens, a service person is called in to unclog the hoses so they can resume access to the diet cola. She says that this happens in intervals ranging from 6 months, to 1 year or 2 years. And it only occurs with the diet cola. That makes one wonder: is it  the aspartame in the diet cola that causes the hoses to clog up? And if it is, what effect can this have on the human body? Several scientists have said that we are still in the early stages of research in this area (the effects of aspartame). In other words, time will tell whether the benefits of diet cola will outweigh its effects. That’s something to think about. — John Tiniakos http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Tired of diets that fail? Finally-there is an answer to permanent weight loss.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend of mine has shared an interesting experience with diet cola. She is a manager for a major hotel-hospitality chain. She says that the sodas are fed through pipes and hoses from a central area to the different restaurants and snack bars in the hotel. This central area contains big containers of soda syrops that are mixed with water and CO2 and are also cooled by a refrigeration system. She has noticed instances when the hoses hooked up to the diet cola syrop bottles have gotten plugged up. When that happens, a service person is called in to unclog the hoses so they can resume access to the diet cola. She says that this happens in intervals ranging from 6 months, to 1 year or 2 years. And it only occurs with the diet cola. That makes one wonder: is it  the aspartame in the diet cola that causes the hoses to clog up? And if it is, what effect can this have on the human body? Several scientists have said that we are still in the early stages of research in this area (the effects of aspartame). In other words, time will tell whether the benefits of diet cola will outweigh its effects. That’s something to think about.

John, may I call you John, I’d really appreciate it if you’d post something that’s actually factual rather than this baloney conjecture. And I’d really appreciate it if you’d peddle your secrets to weight maintenance elsewhere. The secrets are here, I guess: http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Just one guy’s opinion here. I can’t speak for anyone else. The Diet coke thing happens to other flavors and brands as well. In my restaurants, we cleaned all our lines monthly and it should be done for sanitation reasons at least that often and check the brix on the machines at the same time. Non-diet soda syrups contain sugar which can ferment or crystallize. Diet sodas have no sugar, so they have other ingredients like gums to make them feel right in our mouths, and they can aggregate. You might ask if they use figals or boxes for their syrups and how many jumps they rig. Your friend will understand all these technical terms. But ask, just for curiosity’s sake. High volume operation like that and they don’t clean their lines until they clog? Hmmmmmmm I’d appreciate it if you could get me in touch with those several scientists you mention so I can ask them some questions. Pastorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — John Tiniakos http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Tired of diets that fail? Finally-there is an answer to permanent weight loss.

Response:

You can’t blame this one on aspartame, since the syrup used in fountain soft drinks do not contain aspartame. They use saccharin instead. Have a nice day.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend of mine has shared an interesting experience with diet cola. She is a manager for a major hotel-hospitality chain. She says that the sodas are fed through pipes and hoses from a central area to the different restaurants and snack bars in the hotel. This central area contains big containers of soda syrops that are mixed with water and CO2 and are also cooled by a refrigeration system. She has noticed instances when the hoses hooked up to the diet cola syrop bottles have gotten plugged up. When that happens, a service person is called in to unclog the hoses so they can resume access to the diet cola. She says that this happens in intervals ranging from 6 months, to 1 year or 2 years. And it only occurs with the diet cola. That makes one wonder: is it  the aspartame in the diet cola that causes the hoses to clog up? And if it is, what effect can this have on the human body? Several scientists have said that we are still in the early stages of research in this area (the effects of aspartame). In other words, time will tell whether the benefits of diet cola will outweigh its effects. That’s something to think about. — John Tiniakos http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Tired of diets that fail? Finally-there is an answer to permanent weight loss.

Response:

Brewing houses are always having this problem of clogging issues. Where does Diet Coke fit in? Post something useful…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend of mine has shared an interesting experience with diet cola. She is a manager for a major hotel-hospitality chain. She says that the sodas are fed through pipes and hoses from a central area to the different restaurants and snack bars in the hotel. This central area contains big containers of soda syrops that are mixed with water and CO2 and are also cooled by a refrigeration system. She has noticed instances when the hoses hooked up to the diet cola syrop bottles have gotten plugged up. When that happens, a service person is called in to unclog the hoses so they can resume access to the diet cola. She says that this happens in intervals ranging from 6 months, to 1 year or 2 years. And it only occurs with the diet cola. That makes one wonder: is it  the aspartame in the diet cola that causes the hoses to clog up? And if it is, what effect can this have on the human body? Several scientists have said that we are still in the early stages of research in this area (the effects of aspartame). In other words, time will tell whether the benefits of diet cola will outweigh its effects. That’s something to think about. John, may I call you John, I’d really appreciate it if you’d post something that’s actually factual rather than this baloney conjecture. And I’d really appreciate it if you’d peddle your secrets to weight maintenance elsewhere. The secrets are here, I guess: http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Just one guy’s opinion here. I can’t speak for anyone else. The Diet coke thing happens to other flavors and brands as well. In my restaurants, we cleaned all our lines monthly and it should be done for sanitation reasons at least that often and check the brix on the machines at the same time. Non-diet soda syrups contain sugar which can ferment or crystallize. Diet sodas have no sugar, so they have other ingredients like gums to make them feel right in our mouths, and they can aggregate. You might ask if they use figals or boxes for their syrups and how many jumps they rig. Your friend will understand all these technical terms. But ask, just for curiosity’s sake. High volume operation like that and they don’t clean their lines until they clog? Hmmmmmmm I’d appreciate it if you could get me in touch with those several scientists you mention so I can ask them some questions. Pastorio — John Tiniakos http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Tired of diets that fail? Finally-there is an answer to permanent weight loss.

Response:

 Bob, you are right on the mark.    John is full of it.  However, I received an email about diet coke causing MS a few weeks ago so John’s disinformation/scare tactic  is pretty mild by comparison.  According to the email, diet coke was deadly.  Truth is, there are about a billion of us drinking diet coke daily without any ill effects.  And hundreds of millions of us have been drinking several cans a day for about 20 years now – without ill effects.  And for those that don’t drink diet coke, you gotta know that many millions of us drink them more because we like them than because of the diet thing.   It shouldn’t seem strange at all to see someone consuming a snickers bar and drinking a diet coke. Jim L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend of mine has shared an interesting experience with diet cola. She is a manager for a major hotel-hospitality chain. She says that the sodas are fed through pipes and hoses from a central area to the different restaurants and snack bars in the hotel. This central area contains big containers of soda syrops that are mixed with water and CO2 and are also cooled by a refrigeration system. She has noticed instances when the hoses hooked up to the diet cola syrop bottles have gotten plugged up. When that happens, a service person is called in to unclog the hoses so they can resume access to the diet cola. She says that this happens in intervals ranging from 6 months, to 1 year or 2 years. And it only occurs with the diet cola. That makes one wonder: is it  the aspartame in the diet cola that causes the hoses to clog up? And if it is, what effect can this have on the human body? Several scientists have said that we are still in the early stages of research in this area (the effects of aspartame). In other words, time will tell whether the benefits of diet cola will outweigh its effects. That’s something to think about. John, may I call you John, I’d really appreciate it if you’d post something that’s actually factual rather than this baloney conjecture. And I’d really appreciate it if you’d peddle your secrets to weight maintenance elsewhere. The secrets are here, I guess: http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Just one guy’s opinion here. I can’t speak for anyone else. The Diet coke thing happens to other flavors and brands as well. In my restaurants, we cleaned all our lines monthly and it should be done for sanitation reasons at least that often and check the brix on the machines at the same time. Non-diet soda syrups contain sugar which can ferment or crystallize. Diet sodas have no sugar, so they have other ingredients like gums to make them feel right in our mouths, and they can aggregate. You might ask if they use figals or boxes for their syrups and how many jumps they rig. Your friend will understand all these technical terms. But ask, just for curiosity’s sake. High volume operation like that and they don’t clean their lines until they clog? Hmmmmmmm I’d appreciate it if you could get me in touch with those several scientists you mention so I can ask them some questions. Pastorio — John Tiniakos http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Tired of diets that fail? Finally-there is an answer to permanent weight loss.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brewing houses are always having this problem of clogging issues. Where does Diet Coke fit in? Post something useful… A friend of mine has shared an interesting experience with diet cola.  She is a manager for a major hotel-hospitality chain. She says that the sodas  are fed through pipes and hoses from a central area to the different  restaurants and snack bars in the hotel. This central area contains big containers  of soda syrops that are mixed with water and CO2 and are also cooled by a refrigeration system. She has noticed instances when the hoses hooked up  to the diet cola syrop bottles have gotten plugged up. When that happens, a service person is called in to unclog the hoses so they can resume  access to the diet cola. She says that this happens in intervals ranging from 6 months, to 1 year or 2 years. And it only occurs with the diet cola.  That makes one wonder: is it  the aspartame in the diet cola that causes the hoses to clog up? And if it is, what effect can this have on the human  body? Several scientists have said that we are still in the early stages of research in this area (the effects of aspartame). In other words, time  will tell whether the benefits of diet cola will outweigh its effects. That’s something to think about. John, may I call you John, I’d really appreciate it if you’d post something that’s actually factual rather than this baloney conjecture. And I’d really appreciate it if you’d peddle your secrets to weight maintenance elsewhere. The secrets are here, I guess: http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Just one guy’s opinion here. I can’t speak for anyone else. The Diet coke thing happens to other flavors and brands as well. In my restaurants, we cleaned all our lines monthly and it should be done for sanitation reasons at least that often and check the brix on the machines at the same time. Non-diet soda syrups contain sugar which can ferment or crystallize. Diet sodas have no sugar, so they have other ingredients like gums to make them feel right in our mouths, and they can aggregate. You might ask if they use figals or boxes for their syrups and how many jumps they rig. Your friend will understand all these technical terms. But ask, just for curiosity’s sake. High volume operation like that and they don’t clean their lines until they clog? Hmmmmmmm I’d appreciate it if you could get me in touch with those several scientists you mention so I can ask them some questions. Pastorio — John Tiniakos http://www.nulife-weightloss.com Tired of diets that fail? Finally-there is an answer to permanent weight loss.

I just spoke to my friend that gave me the diet cola story. True, she said, other soda flavors, as well as beer, also clog the lines. But diet cola causes the most problems by far. She said, even the service repair person that cleans the lines complained that this is a common problem with many other similar establishments. About the sweetener topic-studies done on sweeteners have shown that aspartame and acesuleame-k when consumed in moderate quantities are safe. Although since these products haven’t been around for along time, it is difficult to say-according to scientists-what effects these could have by the later stages of a subjects life. In other words they haven’t gotten the entire picture yet. Although, there are so many conflicting studies constantly going on, that it’s hard to come up with a solid conlusion. And when you do, another study-it seems-shoots down that theory. Another sweetener, saccharin,  has been shown to cause cancer in animals, and therefore is subject to controversy, but is still sold in stores. On the other hand, cyclamate- yet another sweetener-has been banned in the US.

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Michelob Ultra is not horrible, but I’m hoping to find a really decent premium beer that has < 10 g carbs per bottle.  A few weeks ago, someone mentioned that Guinness Extra Stout was relatively LC but I would like to know for certain. Which beers might a self-avowed beer snob be able to enjoy in moderation without killing my LC plan? Which brewing companies provide detailed nutritional info on their packaging and/or website? My personal fave, Hacker-Pschorr Weizen is definitely not low carb ;-(

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Guiness is low carb….not as low as Ultra…but can;t remember what it was (but I was surprised) Alok

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michelob Ultra is not horrible, but I’m hoping to find a really decent premium beer that has < 10 g carbs per bottle.  A few weeks ago, someone mentioned that Guinness Extra Stout was relatively LC but I would like to know for certain. Which beers might a self-avowed beer snob be able to enjoy in moderation without killing my LC plan? Which brewing companies provide detailed nutritional info on their packaging and/or website? My personal fave, Hacker-Pschorr Weizen is definitely not low carb ;-(

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Michelob Ultra is not horrible, but I’m hoping to find a really decent premium beer that has < 10 g carbs per bottle.  A few weeks ago, someone mentioned that Guinness Extra Stout was relatively LC but I would like to know for certain.

miller lite is next up 3.3 corona lite 5.0 i think the sam adams light is 10 or less. it’s an almost SEMI light since it clocks in with 125 calories which is about 25-30 more than most so-called lights mike

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