Brewing Master

Question:

Ken’s calculations show him spending $40 a day, or $1400 a year, on sailing, when he is a member of a charter fleet. Let’s talk about the costs of OWNING a sailboat.  Recently, someone posted his monthly costs for a powerboat, and it came to well over $500/month.  I don’t have all the numbers handy, but let’s figure out what our Catalina 25 really ends up costing per month. The mooring is by the foot, of course.  We pay $140 per month (that’s more than Ken’s costs already!) Fuel is trivial for a sailboat; I don’t even worry about it. Every month or 2 we buy another 5 gallons, and since we’ve got an outboard, we just carry it onto the boat instead of looking for a fuel dock.  That means we pay auto gas rates! The boat itself cost $7000 used 2 years ago.  Cliff got a 3-year loan on it; around $300 a month.  That will be paid in October. However, used boats mean lots of things break and must be replaced. This spring we replaced a lot; standing rigging, sails, most of the wiring.  The masthead cracked and that was another $100.  Plus we had the boat hauled out and repainted this year (nice thing about California, you DON’T have to do so every year!)  So, maintenance and repairs this year are already over $3500, but this year is unusual.  And, I think the sails we replaced were the ORIGINALS; realistically, sails should be good for 5 years. Hmmm; we’re well over $740/month at this point!  If I spread the cost of sails and rigging over 5 years that brings us down to $560–similar to the powerboat!  It will be nice when the loan is paid off…in a few years we’ll worry about moving up to that Island Packet 32 I have my eye on. Now add insurance and any other maintenance I forgot; you get the idea. It’s still cheaper than skiing.  Back when I skiied 30 days/year I spent more than $2000 a season on it; $500 for ski cabin share, $1100 for lift tickets, plus replacing whatever equipment needed replacing.  Food costs more at ski resorts too. Cliff Sojourner & Maddi Hausmann "Integrity"  Catalina 25 #2411 Peninsula Marina, Redwood City, CA — Centigram Communications Corp        San Jose California  408/428-3553 Kids, please don’t try this at home.  Remember, I post professionally.

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 One doesn’t have to own  a boat to sail,for every owner theres maybe 3 or 4  crewing/participating. And think of all the money you don’t spend when your  afloat for a weekend.

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Ken’s calculations show him spending $40 a day, or $1400 a year, on sailing, when he is a member of a charter fleet.

Try $14,000 a year!                                 Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Harris Space Systems      ::            Melbourne, FL

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Ken’s calculations show him spending $40 a day, or $1400 a year, on sailing, when he is a member of a charter fleet. Try $14,000 a year!                            Mark

In Ken’s original post I believe that he said the membership period was April through October, the membership fee $1,400, and the $40/sail figure was based on sailing at least 35 times during that period.  If he could spend more time sailing the amount per sail would decrease.  You ought to find a seasonal job, Ken, that allows you to work from Nov. through March and sail from April to October, but pays all the bills year ’round.  If you do, please let me know what it is!  8-) -dean

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This is an interesting topic.  Our local staff scientist keeps proclaiming `yachting’ as a `hobby of the affluent’.  I resent the implication, but based on the national _average_ household income as about $20,000, I guess I am better off than most… Ken’s calculations show him spending $40 a day, or $1400 a year, on sailing, when he is a member of a charter fleet.

Not beinmg a member of any `official’ organization, and only owning a daysailer (though we haved used it for limited three day sail/camp cruises), I am not quite in the same class. Let’s talk about the costs of OWNING a sailboat.  Recently, someone posted his monthly costs for a powerboat, and it came to well over $500/month.  I don’t have all the numbers handy, but let’s figure out what our Catalina 25 really ends up costing per month.

My (retired) father just bought a place here in SoCal.  He paid $85k for a 1500 sq ft place with his own private dock on a lake.  He is thinking of finding a 22 to 26 foot boat to put on the dock. The mooring is by the foot, of course.  We pay $140 per month (that’s more than Ken’s costs already!)

My local launch ramp here in Los Angeles county is free (so is parking and the beach area).  And I think I paid about $1500 for the boat (used) 6 years ago.  Since then, my biggest expense has been new tires for the trailer.  I think I have a ttal of $2400 in the boat… It gets used about 15 days a year… It’s still cheaper than skiing.  Back when I skiied 30 days/year I spent more than $2000 a season on it; $500 for ski cabin share, $1100 for lift tickets, plus replacing whatever equipment needed replacing.  Food costs more at ski resorts too.

My worst season skiing cost about $1200 for 20 days.  but that was the year I bought all new gear too.  I did get PSIA discounts though, being a part time instructor. — Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati (LA Scum)  Hobie  Kottke  ’blad  Iaido      NASA Dryden     Lead Aero F-18 HARV     Chief Engineer SR-71   "…valve spreeengs?  VALVE _*SPREEEEEEEEENGS*_!?!  We don’ neeeed   no steeeenking valve spreeeeeengs!…"                 –Dr. Desmo

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    Just as another data point, I own and sail a mid-60’s vintage wood Lightning.  This boat is fresh-water sailed on a resevoir in southern New Hampshire.  My expenses are roughly $300 for maintenance materials per year (bottom paint, varnish, misc. small hardware) plus registration costs, plus an insurance rider, all totaling another $150, or so.     For completeness, I should probably factor in another $200-300 for a budget to replace sails (though this hasn’t been necessary, yet.)     The boat cost $2400 with trailer; I paid cash.     So, it is possible to sail for a reasonable amount of money.  The factors here are: a used boat, a small boat, low maintenance in fresh water, and zero mooring fees.     Being in lovely low-tax NH doesn’t hurt .     Jack Curtis

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Just for comparison I thought I would list my costs to sail my Laser each year: $900 w/ trailer original purchase price spread out over 3 years so far. $300 for a new sail (only necessary every year if you are racing) $150 for club membership and storage at the lake $30 for trailer registration and boat registration If I never went to any regattas and only pleasure sailed I could probably get by on a budget of $200-$250 per year after the initial investment. However, if you race, you have to buy a wetsuit, drysuit, tiller extension, new line, new cleats, vang swivel, new sail, wind indicators, etc. These all probably add up to about $2000, but they can always be used and can even be resold. The real money is in travelling to regattas.  Gas money and lodging can get expensive, though it is often possible to camp at the clubs where the regattas are held for free and/or obtain housing with local sailors. So, even on a limited budget, you can sail a boat for between $20 per month and $40 per month depending on how much you want to do. Will —  "Where’s jazz going? I don’t know? Maybe it’s going to hell.         You can’t make anything go anywhere. It just happens."  Monk

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        Sailing is not realy elite you can sail a boat for very little if you want to, but if are not carefull you find that  very little creeps up on you and slowly becomes more and more  expensive…         Like most sports sailing is also gloryfied by the press  to become glamorous, after all who many people are realy  intrested in Jo Bloggs who owns a small cheap sailing boat and sails it round a pound in the middle of Manchester when they  could be reading about Dennis Conner beating the Australians  in his $500,000,000 (or what ever it is) racing yacht?         I definatly beleive sailing CAN be cheap IF you want it  to be, it depends how you get your enjoment out of sailing.                 Gerrit    When all else fails, lower your standards.         Especially spelling and grammar.  

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It seems to me that whether or not sailing IS elitist is irrelevant. What counts is that apparently most people not connected with the sport assume that it is.  I base the term "most" on my own experiences.  For instance, when I was organizing racing for a local yacht club, I tried hard to get the local paper to at least print the results.  I was told by the sports editor that yachting was for the rich and that the readers would not be interested.  I just got a glassy stare when I pointed out that my boat (a Fireball) cost me about a third of the price of the average ski boat that the teenagers were running around the local lake. B.S!

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It seems to me that if one wants to sail all they have to do is look for an opportunity to do so.  While it is true that we all don’t have the chance to sail on SC 70s or Farr sleds if we want to sail badly enough we can.  I don’t think sailors are much of an elite bunch at all, in fact quite the contrary.  Sailors generally "just do it". Just my .02 folks. Kevin "Blac Widow" Tomahawk Bay Portland, Or.

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I’ve been following this thread about sailing/racing as an elitist sport with interest.  Perhaps we’re making this whole issue much more complicated than it really is.  Based on my admittedly relatively small sampling, most people I know seem to be view sailing cruising/racing as an elitist sport because they see it as "time" prohibitive. I can’t begin to count the number of times I’ve heard the comment:  "How can you afford to take so much time to go sailing?"  Most sailing novices seem to want to be at the dock at noon and return by 4 PM.  I guess when you think about it, most other ’sporting events’ take around 4 hours.  In a power boat, you can cover a lot of ground in 4 hours.  In a sailboat, at least the way we usually sail, you’ve really just about gotten into the rhythm of things in 4 hours and not everyone has had their turn at the helm yet. Could it also be that most people’s exposure to yacht racing is simply the America’s Cup.  Let’s see:  If a 100′ boat costs $60M to operate through a campaign, does a 20′ boat cost <$12M? Just another thought.                                            | Tonya Flynn                               /|      6901 W. Sunrise Blvd. (305/797-2446)                           / |     Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33313

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Could it also be that most people’s exposure to yacht racing is simply the America’s Cup.  Let’s see:  If a 100′ boat costs $60M to operate through a campaign, does a 20′ boat cost <$12M? Just another thought.                                            | Tonya Flynn                               /|      6901 W. Sunrise Blvd. (305/797-2446)                           / |     Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33313

– I have seen this same phenomenon.  Too bad folks don’t make the same comparison they make for auto racing.  They KNOW how much it takes to race a car, and realize it doesn’t take as much to drive a similar car around on weekends, but they persist in believing that it takes mega-bucks to sail.  Mind you, it ain’t always cheap, but fishing can also be expensive.  Has anyone priced a superior pair of roller blades lately?   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *   * Marrin T. Fleet                         Phone:  901-678-3604            *   * Memphis, TN   38152                                                     *   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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I’ll a cost estimate and then comparison for a normal person who sails.  But, normal people don’t sail so what I really mean is normal financially, ie not rich.  Also, sailing is not bare-bones nor luxury but decent summer fun. I pay a fee to sail out of the Boston Sailing Center that provides J-24s and Olson-25s (as well as a gazillion Solings).  Cost is $1400/yr.  That sounds like a lot but it’s afforable and it provides a fair amount of sailing for the money.  Heck, moorings around here are $1400/yr.  I can reserve the use of one of the cabin boats once a weekend plus just about whenever I want during the week since they are just sitting there.  I can also take a boat for one three day cruise a year.  The season runs from April through October, seven months, thirty weekends.  If I sail once a weekend, I get thirty days of sailing.  Realisticly, the obligation of life keep me from sailing every weekend.  Weather can also cause a few cancelations.  On the other hand, I have enough vacation time to take about ten weekdays and sail.  So, let’s I get 30-35 days of sailing.  That’s about $40-45 a day.  As far as equipment expenditures, I have foulies, sea-boots, my own chart and some tools so I can plot at home the night before, a cooler for lunch, some sun-screen, a hat, a bad to carry my sail stuff.  All this junk is not more than a few hundred bucks investment. So, let’s compare that to say golf.  A all-right set of clubs and a bag is a least the few hundred bucks investment.  Around here, 18 holes runs from about $20-$40 with a decent course being around $27. That’s less than $45 but not an order of maganitude less.  Now you consider that I can take my wife sailing at no additional cost.  Now sailing is as cheap as golf.  Then I usually take a couple friends, who usually bring lunch (and beverage), and sailing is a social activity that’s actually cheaper than golf. Golf isn’t that great a comparison as some still consider it an `elite’ sport which it isn’t.  I can’t think of that many activities that 2-4 people can do for a cost of $40-50/day with only a couple hundred dollar investment though. —    Don’t drink American corporate swill.  Support your local micro-brewery.  

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