Brewing Master

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, It’s really hard to tell. My first guess, would be a defect in the malt, leading to S-methyl methionine. S-methyl methinine is a precursor to Dimethyl Sulfide. And the flavor thresholds are extremely low. i.e., parts per billion. The boil converts SMM to DMS. That’s why is so important to boil in a uncovered vessel. If you want some funky beer, do up a small batch and boil it in a covered kettle. But if your malt is high in SMM to begin with, some of it will carry over to the fermenter. A warmer fermentation will reduce DMS levels at a 2x + rate, compared to colder lagering temperatures. (See Kunze). DMS reduction is a function of CO2 venting. So with a Pilsner Urquell, it would definitely so up. Other possibilities: Could be a sulfide in the hop oils? Could be a carry over from a fungicide used on the hops? Overpitching yeast can and will produce sulfides also. Just remember that sulfides are measured in ppb, so a little goes a long way….. entire batch.

Thanks, I had researched and found out about the malt and many of the other culprits you mentioned, but it is going to be pretty sad if every PU of that batch is infected/rotten.  It is a damn fine beer when fresh. Cheers, Mike

Response:

The water might have been from a Well or the company that makes the beer produces their own water.  Wells are known for high levels of sulphur thus producing the "rotten egg" smell.

I think the smell did come from some ingredient, water perhaps in the beer. It is just that it came from PU – Pilsner Urquell.  This beer has been brewed in the Czech Republic since before 1863. http://www.pilsner-urquell.com/en/ Cheers, Mike

Response:

The water might have been from a Well or the company that makes the beer produces their own water.  Wells are known for high levels of sulphur thus producing the "rotten egg" smell.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for the group.  Last night, myself and three other gents were at a watering hole having a meeting, and one ordered a draft Pilsner Urquell.  It came and smelled horribly of rotten eggs.  Of all thing the meeting was the officers of our local homebrewing club, and two of us are BJCP judges.  Now I have searched the old memory banks and for the life of me cannot figure out what would cause a rotten egg smell in a commercial kegged beer. IIRC rotten eggs is H2S. And no, it was not skunked, it was draft.It was dispensed with a Nitrogen/CO2 mix due to the length of the dispensing lines, but Nitrogen doesn’t give off rotten egg smell. Anyone got any insight? Cheers, Mike

Response:

I think you have inadvertently hit on the answer. PU is trying to pre-skunk their draft at the brewery so that it comes out as horrible as their green bottled stuff. They just haven’t got the formula for Stinky Continental Lager Essence quite down pat just yet.

I got into a heated e-mail discussion with the president of Warsteiner of America about this.  I detected skunk in a minikeg and on tap. —  Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have yet to get a good bottle of PU. I’ve never had it on tap. The bottles I’ve had a range of off flavors. I’m sure some of this is from mishandling. Some have been skunked but I haven’t had the rotten egg smell. PU has been showing up in supermarkets at about $13 for a 12 pack of 12 oz bottles. I might try it again. Brian

Response:

I have to come to the defense of this beer. It is a good beer but who knows why your experience was what it was. Some have alluded to dirty lines etc.. The author of the following web site actually visited the PU brewery. http://www.homebrewforum.com/urquell/

Response:

I have to come to the defense of this beer. It is a good beer but who knows why your experience was what it was. Some have alluded to dirty lines etc.. The author of the following web site actually visited the PU brewery. http://www.homebrewforum.com/urquell/

Unfortunately, recent changes at the brewery have transformed this once legendary beer into just another pale lager.  Years ago this was my favorite beer. Now, it’s just so-so. The quality, particularly in bottles, has always been extremely variable. The first time I tried it, it was terribly oxidized. Other times it was skunky. But in the mid 90’s the quality was much more reliable. Now, the quality is still consistent, but it has lost it’s wonderful complex malt flavor. It’s a real shame.

Response:

I think you have inadvertently hit on the answer. PU is trying to pre-skunk their draft at the brewery so that it comes out as horrible as their green bottled stuff. They just haven’t got the formula for Stinky Continental Lager Essence quite down pat just yet.

That would be as lame as losing the formula for ice. — [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al – rukbat at optonline dot net

Response:

I can’t get past the skunk to get to the rotten eggs!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have yet to get a good bottle of PU. I’ve never had it on tap. The bottles I’ve had a range of off flavors. I’m sure some of this is from mishandling. Some have been skunked but I haven’t had the rotten egg smell. PU has been showing up in supermarkets at about $13 for a 12 pack of 12 oz bottles. I might try it again. I suppose QC at PU could be a suspect. Was only the one glass ordered? I would have asked for a replacement and see if that had the smell. I’m just wondering if this wasn’t the first pull off some dirty lines and something in them was producing an H2S-like smell. Just guessing. No, it was through and through, a friend who went there the previous night reported the same thing. Sulphur can occur as a by product of the fermentation, and can be removed during lagering, but if it made it to the keg I would expect the whole batch to be off, not just a single keg.  I wonder if all over the beer drinking world people are saying Yuuuck, or Who Farted! Cheers, Mike Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

Mike, It’s really hard to tell. My first guess, would be a defect in the malt, leading to S-methyl methionine. S-methyl methinine is a precursor to Dimethyl Sulfide. And the flavor thresholds are extremely low. i.e., parts per billion. The boil converts SMM to DMS. That’s why is so important to boil in a uncovered vessel. If you want some funky beer, do up a small batch and boil it in a covered kettle. But if your malt is high in SMM to begin with, some of it will carry over to the fermenter. A warmer fermentation will reduce DMS levels at a 2x + rate, compared to colder lagering temperatures. (See Kunze). DMS reduction is a function of CO2 venting. So with a Pilsner Urquell, it would definitely so up. Other possibilities: Could be a sulfide in the hop oils? Could be a carry over from a fungicide used on the hops? Overpitching yeast can and will produce sulfides also. Just remember that sulfides are measured in ppb, so a little goes a long way….. entire batch. Scott

Response:

I have yet to get a good bottle of PU. I’ve never had it on tap. The bottles I’ve had a range of off flavors. I’m sure some of this is from mishandling. Some have been skunked but I haven’t had the rotten egg smell. PU has been showing up in supermarkets at about $13 for a 12 pack of 12 oz bottles. I might try it again.

I think you have inadvertently hit on the answer. PU is trying to pre-skunk their draft at the brewery so that it comes out as horrible as their green bottled stuff. They just haven’t got the formula for Stinky Continental Lager Essence quite down pat just yet. Brian

Response:

I suppose QC at PU could be a suspect. Was only the one glass ordered? I would have asked for a replacement and see if that had the smell. I’m just wondering if this wasn’t the first pull off some dirty lines and something in them was producing an H2S-like smell. Just guessing.

No, it was through and through, a friend who went there the previous night reported the same thing. Sulphur can occur as a by product of the fermentation, and can be removed during lagering, but if it made it to the keg I would expect the whole batch to be off, not just a single keg.  I wonder if all over the beer drinking world people are saying Yuuuck, or Who Farted! Cheers, Mike

Response:

I have yet to get a good bottle of PU. I’ve never       had it on tap. The bottles I’ve had a range of off flavors. I’m sure some of this is from mishandling. Some have been skunked but I haven’t had the rotten egg smell. PU has been showing up in supermarkets at about $13 for a 12 pack of 12 oz bottles. I might try it again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suppose QC at PU could be a suspect. Was only the one glass ordered? I would have asked for a replacement and see if that had the smell. I’m just wondering if this wasn’t the first pull off some dirty lines and something in them was producing an H2S-like smell. Just guessing. No, it was through and through, a friend who went there the previous night reported the same thing. Sulphur can occur as a by product of the fermentation, and can be removed during lagering, but if it made it to the keg I would expect the whole batch to be off, not just a single keg.  I wonder if all over the beer drinking world people are saying Yuuuck, or Who Farted! Cheers, Mike

Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

I suppose QC at PU could be a suspect. Was only the one glass ordered? I would have asked for a replacement and see if that had the smell. I’m just wondering if this wasn’t the first pull off some dirty lines and something in them was producing an H2S-like smell. Just guessing. Brian

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question for the group.  Last night, myself and three other gents were at a watering hole having a meeting, and one ordered a draft Pilsner Urquell.  It came and smelled horribly of rotten eggs.  Of all thing the meeting was the officers of our local homebrewing club, and two of us are BJCP judges.  Now I have searched the old memory banks and for the life of me cannot figure out what would cause a rotten egg smell in a commercial kegged beer. IIRC rotten eggs is H2S. And no, it was not skunked, it was draft.It was dispensed with a Nitrogen/CO2 mix due to the length of the dispensing lines, but Nitrogen doesn’t give off rotten egg smell. Anyone got any insight? Cheers, Mike

Response:

I have a question for the group.  Last night, myself and three other gents were at a watering hole having a meeting, and one ordered a draft Pilsner Urquell.  It came and smelled horribly of rotten eggs.  Of all thing the meeting was the officers of our local homebrewing club, and two of us are BJCP judges.  Now I have searched the old memory banks and for the life of me cannot figure out what would cause a rotten egg smell in a commercial kegged beer. IIRC rotten eggs is H2S. And no, it was not skunked, it was draft.It was dispensed with a Nitrogen/CO2 mix due to the length of the dispensing lines, but Nitrogen doesn’t give off rotten egg smell. Anyone got any insight? Cheers, Mike

Response: