Brewing Master

Question:

What exactly is this Ice beer thing… I have heard of several breweries that are now making an ice beer… what is the difference?  Thanks

IMOHO…  not a thing.  Instead of lagering to 32F they most likely go to about 28F, when the ice forms, they must raise the temp and melt it, or else theie product would have to be treated as a distilled spirit instead of a beer. — Aaron Birenboim         | If a single yeast cell were given an optimal growth W (303) 344-6486        |  surface of the earth with a depth of two feet….. H (303) 871-8271        |     wouldn’t that be nice.    – Micah Millspaw

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| | This is part of the problem with this line of beers: | | They are being targeted at the young (I wouldn’t imply underage | | drinker.  It’s working too: Most of the beer litter along the roads in | | this area are in the "Ice" category.  Also, so far this year, drinking | | and driving arrests have more that doubled to date in the holiday | | (since Nov 25 or Dec 1, I’m not sure) period.  Police are attributing | | it to ice beers. | | Whaaaat!? | | Let me see if I understand your logic here.  Only young people litter, and | only young people drink and drive, and if it wasn’t for ICE beer, young | people wouldn’t do either according to the police. | | Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.     Let me see how I interpret this:   Young irresponsible people are more likely to litter.   Young irresponsible people are more likly to drink and drive.   ICE beer is more popular with young people who have never tasted   good beer.   So what’s your point? —

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What exactly is this Ice beer thing… I have heard of several breweries that are now making an ice beer… what is the difference?  Thanks

As I understand it, "normal" beer is cooled until it starts to freeze. The ice is then skimmed off. Since alcohol freezes at a lower temperature than water (a term used looseley here), the resulting brew has a higher alcohol content by volume. This may be somewhat oversimplified, but describes the overall process. Labatt’s Ice was all the rage when I was in Ontario in May, it’s now being promoted heavily in the States. A more detailed explanation of the process is welcomed. Regards, Phil

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What exactly is this Ice beer thing… I have heard of several breweries that are now making an ice beer… what is the difference?  Thanks As I understand it, "normal" beer is cooled until it starts to freeze. The ice is then skimmed off. Since alcohol freezes at a lower temperature

<Snipped         When Ice Beer hit our markets, it was pushed as a beer of "exeptional smoothness." True enough, it is. But taste is sacrificed in the name of "drinkability."         I read an interview shortly after it came out with a "truth in advertising" wannabe who explained that ice beer was a highly adjuncted (he didn’t use those words, but that’s what he meant) wort that is run through through a orange-juice-making machine. The specific gravity argument was cited as the operative.         Hell of a good advertising campain it was, though the beer tastes like a post-party skunk with a hidden cigarette butt for spice. –30– — Cam Lockerbie    *  One cannot appreciate Shakespeare * Ottawa, Ont.     *  until one reads him in            * Canada           *  the original Klingon.             *

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What exactly is this Ice beer thing… I have heard of several breweries that are now making an ice beer… what is the difference?  Thanks —                                 Ed

Response:

(Phillip A. Freshour) says: What exactly is this Ice beer thing… I have heard of several breweries that are now making an ice beer… what is the difference?  Thanks As I understand it, "normal" beer is cooled until it starts to freeze. The ice is then skimmed off. Since alcohol freezes at a lower temperature than water (a term used looseley here), the resulting brew has a higher alcohol content by volume. This may be somewhat oversimplified, but …[snip]

I believe you’re refering to "real" ice beer here (e.g. eisbock(sp)), not the megabrew "ice" beers (Labatt’s, Colders, etc.).  I would imagine the megabrew s tuff is either lagered at colder temperatures (<32 F) or just a marketing ploy. Just my $0.02 %-) Russ Brodeur

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   [...my description of ice beer deleted...] I believe you’re refering to "real" ice beer here (e.g. eisbock(sp)), not the megabrew "ice" beers (Labatt’s, Colders, etc.).  I would imagine the megabrew s tuff is either lagered at colder temperatures (<32 F) or just a marketing ploy. Just my $0.02 %-) Russ Brodeur

You may be right, I have no idea what goes on inside the brewery. I was repeating what I had heard on Canadian radio this spring. A Labatt’s spokesman, sort of a Darth Vader with a French accent, described the freezing/skimming process that produces "an exceptionally smooth beer" for all us lucky consumers…. Regards, Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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You may be right, I have no idea what goes on inside the brewery. I was repeating what I had heard on Canadian radio this spring. A Labatt’s spokesman, sort of a Darth Vader with a French accent, described the freezing/skimming process that produces "an exceptionally smooth beer" for all us lucky consumers….

Actually the actor in those commercials is Alexander (?) <Hey, I also said Boris! Goudonov (sp(?)) supposedly known for his roles in action/adventure films, which I seldom watch.  He also appears in the TV commercials.  This is part of the problem with this line of beers: They are being targeted at the young (I wouldn’t imply underage drinker.  It’s working too: Most of the beer litter along the roads in this area are in the "Ice" category.  Also, so far this year, drinking and driving arrests have more that doubled to date in the holiday (since Nov 25 or Dec 1, I’m not sure) period.  Police are attributing it to ice beers. I almost forgot:  The actor’s accent is Russian! BTW, this discussion of ice beer belongs in alt.beer, doesn’t it?   What does it have to do with homebrewing?  I haven’t figured out how to change the followups in my cluggy VAX/VMS/ANU newsreader.  However, I have crossposted to alt.beer Also, one weird thought about ice beer.  It is claimed that the ice removes some of the "harsh" character in the beer by the manufacturers (I can’t call them brewers).  The concensus here is that the flavour and character have been removed along with the ice. If the ice removed from the ice beer was added to the mega swill maker’s light beers, would you end up with light beer with flavour and character? —

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| This is part of the problem with this line of beers: | They are being targeted at the young (I wouldn’t imply underage | drinker.  It’s working too: Most of the beer litter along the roads in | this area are in the "Ice" category.  Also, so far this year, drinking | and driving arrests have more that doubled to date in the holiday | (since Nov 25 or Dec 1, I’m not sure) period.  Police are attributing | it to ice beers. Whaaaat!? Let me see if I understand your logic here.  Only young people litter, and only young people drink and drive, and if it wasn’t for ICE beer, young people wouldn’t do either according to the police. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.  

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But it sounds like in the U.S. brewers aren!t allowed to do this because it’s too much like distillation, and therefore specifically prohibited.  

Actually, I believe the clause in US law is aimed at people making high-test stuff like Apple Jack and getting around the distillation laws on a technicality. (Apple Jack is hard cider that is successively frozen/strained until not much besides alcohol remains.  It is illegal  to make in the US as it falls in the same category as making moonshine whiskey.) — Kevin Farlee       | DISCLAIMER                   | Stupid questions are                    | my own, and not my employers | to stupid mistakes

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… A Labatt’s spokesman, sort of a Darth Vader with a French accent, described the freezing/skimming process that produces "an exceptionally smooth beer"

and… Also, one weird thought about ice beer.  It is claimed that the ice removes some of the "harsh" character in the beer…

really?  I haven’t had the stuff, but all my experience with this ice processing (called jacking by some more senior americans i have met…   a la "applejack") INCREASES a harshness.  Always seems to make things a bit nasty IMOHO.  I’ll have to try the stuff… but i hope nobody is looking If the ice removed from the ice beer was added to the mega swill maker’s light beers, would you end up with light beer with flavour and character?

i know you are joking… but for the above reason, i doubt it.  Then again, I have never "jacked" a light beer. P.S.  I have never actually "jacked" anything.  It just happened by mistake when i tried to chill in freezer.  perhaps if i went slower it would not be so nasty. — Aaron Birenboim         | If a single yeast cell were given an optimal growth W (303) 344-6486        |  surface of the earth with a depth of two feet….. H (303) 871-8271        |     wouldn’t that be nice.    – Micah Millspaw

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This is in particular regard to Labatt’s Ice beer. I was at my local beer distributor last friday (that’s where you have to go to buy cases and/or kegs in PA) and ran across Labatt’s advertisement for their "ice beer".  From their claims, it is indeed a real ice beer: they partially freeze the beer (the tiny ice crystals supposedly remove "rough-tasting" compounds resulting in a smoother beer), and remove the ice. They did not mention anything about re-adding water, and cliam the alcohol content is increased (5.6 vol%).  I have never drank any, so I can’t say if they were successful; but I’m not terribly fond of other Labatt’s products. I guess now I’m not sure whether or not it’s actually ice beer or not. Happy holidays Russ

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This is in particular regard to Labatt’s Ice beer. I was at my local beer distributor last friday (that’s where you have to go to buy cases and/or kegs in PA) and ran across Labatt’s advertisement for their "ice beer".  From their claims, it is indeed a real ice beer: they partially freeze the beer (the tiny ice crystals supposedly remove "rough-tasting" compounds resulting in a smoother beer), and remove the ice. They did not mention anything about re-adding water, and cliam the alcohol content is increased (5.6 vol%).  I have never drank any, so I can’t say if they were successful; but I’m not terribly fond of other Labatt’s products. I guess now I’m not sure whether or not it’s actually ice beer or not.

From reading this thread, it sounds to me like there may be a difference in legislation at the root of this controversy.  From reading advertising and news articles about Labatt!s (and Molson!s) Ice Beer, I think they are real ice beers in the sense of being partially frozen and then having some ice filtered out to raise the alcohol level.  (And this is the sole reason they do it, because it tastes as much like swill as anything else they brew!)  But it sounds like in the U.S. brewers aren!t allowed to do this because it!s too much like distillation, and therefore specifically prohibited.  If that!s true it would be interesting to know the history of that bit of legislation – were brewers decades ago doing the freezing/ice-filtering thing to their brew to give it more of a kick, to the eventual annoyance of the pertinent federal agency? Anyway, it sounds to me like American brewers who want to get on the Ice marketing bandwagon have to add water back to their brew to return the alcohol level to what it was before the freezing and filtering part.  Maybe even they are required to add exactly the same water as what they just filtered out as ice!  Ho ho!  Wouldn!t that be rich?  Talk about pointless. But not much more pointless than the Canadian exercise, as one could achieve the same effect (i.e. raising the alcohol level without imparting additional dreaded flavour or body) by just pouring a wee shot of pure grain ethanol into each bottle of regular megabrew. —– UBC Faculty of Graduate Studies Vancouver, B.C., Canada

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My wife and I recently visited the Rainier brewery in Seattle, Washington, and they are now brewing an ‘ice beer.’  I got the impression that what they did was to cool the beer below the freezing point of water, primarily to accomplish the same result as pasteurization but without the heat.  I do recall them saying that this required special permission from the powers-that-be for public health approval.   (Hey, we just went there so I could show her how the "other half" brews.) They also described a couple of other brews, and the subject of adjuncts always came up.  Every time I asked what the adjunct was, I was told, "Oh, Ian S. King/Clark College/Pacific Telecom, Inc./Vancouver, Washington GOVERNMENT WARNING:  Beware of a government that assumes you are stupid!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What exactly is this Ice beer thing… I have heard of several breweries that are now making an ice beer… what is the difference? Thanks As I understand it, "normal" beer is cooled until it starts to freeze. The ice is then skimmed off. Since alcohol freezes at a lower temperature than water (a term used looseley here), the resulting brew has a higher alcohol content by volume. This may be somewhat oversimplified, but describes the overall process. Labatt’s Ice was all the rage when I was in Ontario in May, it’s now being promoted heavily in the States. A more detailed explanation of the process is welcomed. Regards, Phil

Yes, that’s my understanding too. It goes without saying how obligated the megabrewers are to whatever the latest marketing fads…. —      Oatmeal Stout: It’s the Right Thing to Drink!

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What exactly is this Ice beer thing… I have heard of several breweries that are now making an ice beer… what is the difference?  Thanks IMOHO…  not a thing.  Instead of lagering to 32F they most likely go to about 28F, when the ice forms, they must raise the temp and melt it, or else theie product would have to be treated as a distilled spirit instead of a beer.

  This should be inthe FAQ.   "Real" ice beer is beer that has had the alcohol content increased by   lowering the temperature until water crystals form and then filtering   them out, leaving relatively more alcohol behind.   Budweiser "ICE" beer goes through this same process, but then water is   added back to lower the alcohol content to that of their other swill.   The difference is that it is "cold filtered", just like Coors.   The other difference is that they use corn as an adjunct, to eliminate   the traces of flavor found in their regular beer-like liquid, which   increases the "drinkability" by making it much more like water.   It is, undeniably, the beer for people who prefer water to beer. —

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A friend of mine once used liquid nitrogen to freeze the surface of an Imperial stout he had made.  He skimmed the ice, and the end result was pretty darned good.  It was more of a liqueur than beer, and never did carbonate (the alcohol content must have been too high).  The technique works, but, I believe it is akin to distilling, as far as the US government is concerned. Russ

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: A friend of mine once used liquid nitrogen to freeze the surface of an : Imperial stout he had made.  He skimmed the ice, and the end result was : pretty darned good.  It was more of a liqueur than beer, and never : did carbonate (the alcohol content must have been too high).  The technique The freeze probably killed the yeast.  I wouldn’t expect it to carbonate unless live yeast were added once the temp was tolerable again.  Then if it didn’t carbonate you’re probably right about the alochol content. — | Software Technologies                | | Vancouver Printer Operation          | Language is a virus from outer space, | Hewlett Packard Co.                  | And hearing your name is better than | Vancouver, Washington (USA)          | seeing your face.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | This is part of the problem with this line of beers: | They are being targeted at the young (I wouldn’t imply underage | drinker.  It’s working too: Most of the beer litter along the roads in | this area are in the "Ice" category.  Also, so far this year, drinking | and driving arrests have more that doubled to date in the holiday | (since Nov 25 or Dec 1, I’m not sure) period.  Police are attributing | it to ice beers. Whaaaat!? Let me see if I understand your logic here.  Only young people litter, and only young people drink and drive, and if it wasn’t for ICE beer, young people wouldn’t do either according to the police. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.  

No.  That is not what I said.  Most of the drink-in-the-car-while- driving type of drinking-and-driving (party on wheels!) is done by young persons.  (We have had several horrible accidents in the past few years in which entire carloads of teenagers that were drinking in the car were killed.)  The purpose of this drinking is to get smashed and PARTY.  Ice beer will get you smashed marginally faster than regular (5%) beer. Many people litter.  However, given that there are deposits on all beer bottles and cans (except imports sold throught the Liquor Stores) why would anyone throw away $1.20 would of empties?  Two reasons that I can think of:  (1) To get rid of the "evidence" (as if the smell isn’t enough) before getting home, where unhappy parents may be waiting;  or (2) in case you are stopped by the police — carrying an open container can carry a very hefty penalty and empties in a vehicle with a drunk driver is usually enough to get a drinking *while* driving conviction, which is worse than a DWI. As for the increase in DWI arrests, maybe I didn’t punctuate well enough.  (I probably should have started a new paragraph.)  I didn’t mean to link this with previous point about ice beers being targeted at young people.  To rephrase:  The number of DWI arrests during this holiday season has more than doubled.  Police have stated that the have reason to believe that this is, at least in part, due to people having ice beer instead of regular beer, the difference in alcohol being enough to register the driver as intoxicated (i.e. 0.086 instead of 0.073)  Some of those charged, thought they had been careful, and didn’t realize how much stronger some of these ice beers are. —

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