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Question about a carb count on a beer

admin — Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On another issue raised by Curt, he claims that contrary to what one might guess, Guiness is LC. I’ve seen this claim made many times, but with no specific numbers to back it up, which means it’s just about worthless. I did find this on a website: Worthless? As you just posted, it is LC compared to many beers. If you want to kick back and have a Guiness, you can and keep your carbs under 30 or so. Not bad IMHO. I can certainly eat 100g of carbs every day and not gain, so I am in luck when it comes to this beer. Yes, that’s right, it’s worthless claiming something is low carb without knowing what the specific carb count is. BTW, if you’ve researched 100’s of beers, why didn’t you just tell us what the carb count of Guiness actually was when you made the claim that it was LC?

Because it has been posted so many times on here. I have been around here too long I guess. I get tired of reading the same old crap and the Guinness carb postings have been plentiful in the past. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s nice that your carb budget is so generous. However, if you look at the typical thread here, people are worrying about the rounding of carbs in a spoon of product like Splenda or Ketchup. So, I think for you to make the blanket statement that a beer with 10g of carbs is LC, is misleading at best. Especially when many of the best selling regular beers consumed in America are in that range. http://www.briansbelly.com/beerbelly/guinness.shtml Guinness is often thought of as a high calorie beer but the official word from Guinness is that it is less than 11 calories per ounce. A 12oz serving has 125 calories, 9.8 grams of carbs and it’s alcoholic content is 4.2%. For comparison, 12 ounces of Budweiser is 150 calories and 11 grams carbs, 12 ounces of Heineken is 150 calories and 12.2 grams of carbs, 12 ounces of Corona Extra is 148 calories and 14.1 grams of carbs, and SURPRISE… a Sam Adams Light has 126 calories and 10.9 grams of carbs. Of course, I don’t know anyone who only drinks 12 ounces of Guinness (or any beer for that matter) so your mileage will vary. If this is correct, it shows a number of things. First, that with about 10 carbs, Guiness is like a regular Bud or Heineken and not a LC beer. Um, you are missing a big point here. You can not compare Guinness with Bud and the like. You are comparing apples and oranges with this statement. As far as a real beer goes, Guinness is LC. Following this twisted logic, I could claim that a regular crust pizza is LC too, simply by comparing it to "real" sicilian thick crust pizza. Does that make it LC or a good choice for someone looking for a LC snack?

Sorry, but bread is not LC. I don’t consider 12 oz’s of beer with 10g of carbs high. If you are on permanent Induction that is your deal. Not mine. Many people that work out like myself can eat more carbs that 20. That to me is not a lifestyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Second, with 11 carbs, Sam Adams Light has as many carbs as a Bud or Heineken which shows that all light beers are not LC. As I recall, even Coors Light has about twice the carbs that a Miller Lite or Michelob Ultra has. Of course, one could argue whether 5 carbs vs 2.6 really mattters and that really depends on how many you drink. Personally, for a LC beer, I like the taste of Ultra and since it’s also the lowest out there, it’s my choice. I also like the idea of supporting companies that put all the info on the label, instead of keeping it a secret. I think this shows what I have known all along. The safest and true LC beers are the ones that are labeled with the carb count. For those wishing to drink other beers, they can either do it without knowing how many carbs are in there or obtain an accurate reference that lists them. Once again, you are talking about crap beers. You can’t compare what you are trying to compare. If you go out and buy a good micro sometime and try real beers, you will understand what I am talking about. I guess I take it for granted that people have tried some real beer. Curt OK, so now BUD, Heneiken, Sam Adams Light, Miller Lite, and Mich Ultra are all crap beers. Thanks a lot for your opinion, Mr. Beer snob. Like I and the rest of the world haven’t tried micro brews. Guess what, we have. I like some of them from time to time. And I think many of them are pure crap, but perhaps appealing to beer snobs like you. The same expert, who a few posts back, claimed that carbs in beer come from the alcohol. The fact remains that the major pilsner companies have the majority market share, that is what people drink the most, regardless of what you think of it.

I could care less what MOST people do. Most people are uneducated and don’t know what good beer is. They just look at the pretty bottle on T.V. or they drink what everyone else is drinking. Michelob created and defined the LC beer market with Ultra at 2.6g. Miller lite is 3.2. When people use the term LC beer today, I think there is general agreement that it covers those and similar beers. You could even extend it up to 5g or so, which gets you to Coors Light. But, I don’t think when people use the term LC, they are referring to beers with 10g, since in that range you have beers like regular Bud, Coors and Heneiken. None of those are being marketed or called LC beers by anyone, are they?

You are clueless. There has been LC beers out from the beginning. Ultra (tastes like Sprite without the sweetness), was just the first one that followed the LC craze and capitalized on it. Get a grip you idiot. So, you can have your own little definition of what’s LC, but your terminology isn’t consistent with the rest of the world.

My terminology isn’t consistent with yours. Not the rest of the world. You just watch too much T.V. and the ads. You really don’t know anything about beer and just drink what the masses drink. I could sell you anything in a pretty package. You are just a follower and can’t think for yourself. JMHO. Enjoy, Curt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On another issue raised by Curt, he claims that contrary to what one might guess, Guiness is LC. I’ve seen this claim made many times, but with no specific numbers to back it up, which means it’s just about worthless. I did find this on a website: Worthless? As you just posted, it is LC compared to many beers. If you want to kick back and have a Guiness, you can and keep your carbs under 30 or so. Not bad IMHO. I can certainly eat 100g of carbs every day and not gain, so I am in luck when it comes to this beer. Yes, that’s right, it’s worthless claiming something is low carb without knowing what the specific carb count is. BTW, if you’ve researched 100’s of beers, why didn’t you just tell us what the carb count of Guiness actually was when you made the claim that it was LC? Because it has been posted so many times on here. I have been around here too long I guess. I get tired of reading the same old crap and the Guinness carb postings have been plentiful in the past. It’s nice that your carb budget is so generous. However, if you look at the typical thread here, people are worrying about the rounding of carbs in a spoon of product like Splenda or Ketchup. So, I think for you to make the blanket statement that a beer with 10g of carbs is LC, is misleading at best. Especially when many of the best selling regular beers consumed in America are in that range. http://www.briansbelly.com/beerbelly/guinness.shtml Guinness is often thought of as a high calorie beer but the official word from Guinness is that it is less than 11 calories per ounce. A 12oz serving has 125 calories, 9.8 grams of carbs and it’s alcoholic content is 4.2%. For comparison, 12 ounces of Budweiser is 150 calories and 11 grams carbs, 12 ounces of Heineken is 150 calories and 12.2 grams of carbs, 12 ounces of Corona Extra is 148 calories and 14.1 grams of carbs, and SURPRISE… a Sam Adams Light has 126 calories and 10.9 grams of carbs. Of course, I don’t know anyone who only drinks 12 ounces of Guinness (or any beer for that matter) so your mileage will vary. If this is correct, it shows a number of things. First, that with about 10 carbs, Guiness is like a regular Bud or Heineken and not a LC beer. Um, you are missing a big point here. You can not compare Guinness with Bud and the like. You are comparing apples and oranges with this statement. As far as a real beer goes, Guinness is LC. Following this twisted logic, I could claim that a regular crust pizza is LC too, simply by comparing it to "real" sicilian thick crust pizza. Does that make it LC or a good choice for someone looking for a LC snack? Sorry, but bread is not LC. I don’t consider 12 oz’s of beer with 10g of carbs high. If you are on permanent Induction that is your deal. Not mine. Many people that work out like myself can eat more carbs that 20. That to me is not a lifestyle.

Nor is all beer, but that distinction obviously went right over your head. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Second, with 11 carbs, Sam Adams Light has as many carbs as a Bud or Heineken which shows that all light beers are not LC. As I recall, even Coors Light has about twice the carbs that a Miller Lite or Michelob Ultra has. Of course, one could argue whether 5 carbs vs 2.6 really mattters and that really depends on how many you drink. Personally, for a LC beer, I like the taste of Ultra and since it’s also the lowest out there, it’s my choice. I also like the idea of supporting companies that put all the info on the label, instead of keeping it a secret. I think this shows what I have known all along. The safest and true LC beers are the ones that are labeled with the carb count. For those wishing to drink other beers, they can either do it without knowing how many carbs are in there or obtain an accurate reference that lists them. Once again, you are talking about crap beers. You can’t compare what you are trying to compare. If you go out and buy a good micro sometime and try real beers, you will understand what I am talking about. I guess I take it for granted that people have tried some real beer. Curt OK, so now BUD, Heneiken, Sam Adams Light, Miller Lite, and Mich Ultra are all crap beers. Thanks a lot for your opinion, Mr. Beer snob. Like I and the rest of the world haven’t tried micro brews. Guess what, we have. I like some of them from time to time. And I think many of them are pure crap, but perhaps appealing to beer snobs like you. The same expert, who a few posts back, claimed that carbs in beer come from the alcohol. The fact remains that the major pilsner companies have the majority market share, that is what people drink the most, regardless of what you think of it. I could care less what MOST people do. Most people are uneducated and don’t know what good beer is. They just look at the pretty bottle on T.V. or they drink what everyone else is drinking.

The correct term is "I couldn’t care less", but then that’s just another thing MOST educated people understand and use when communicating. You don’t have to care what most people do, but it does set the standard for how we communicate. Like, if someone on long island says "I’ll meet you in the city tonight", you’d have a pretty tough time if you insist by your convention that would mean Farmingdale, LI instead of NYC, which everyone else would agree it means. Michelob created and defined the LC beer market with Ultra at 2.6g. Miller lite is 3.2. When people use the term LC beer today, I think there is general agreement that it covers those and similar beers. You could even extend it up to 5g or so, which gets you to Coors Light. But, I don’t think when people use the term LC, they are referring to beers with 10g, since in that range you have beers like regular Bud, Coors and Heneiken. None of those are being marketed or called LC beers by anyone, are they? You are clueless. There has been LC beers out from the beginning. Ultra (tastes like Sprite without the sweetness), was just the first one that followed the LC craze and capitalized on it. Get a grip you idiot.

The point, which obviously went over your head, is that by creating the LC market, Mich defined what the term means to most people. And LC means 2 -3 maybe 5g. It’s not 10g, because not onlyu is that 4 times the carbs in a Mich Ultra, but at that point, not only can you have a Guiness or a Bud, but many other regular Pilsners as well. So, you can have your own little definition of what’s LC, but your terminology isn’t consistent with the rest of the world. My terminology isn’t consistent with yours. Not the rest of the world. You just watch too much T.V. and the ads. You really don’t know anything about beer and just drink what the masses drink. I could sell you anything in a pretty package. You are just a follower and can’t think for yourself. JMHO. Enjoy, Curt

So the rest of the world thinks Guiness at 10g is LC? And 10g is being generous; as was pointed out to you, the carbs in Guiness vary all over the place depending on draft vs bottled, brewery, etc., 10g is the low. Let’s take a poll here. How many agree with Curt that Guiness or Bud at 10g fit the defintion of a low carb beer, or should be recommended as LC beers to others, as opposed to Mich Ultra or Miller Lite? Haven’t you seen posts from all the folks here that drink Mich Ultra or Miller Lite and think it’s fine as a LC alcohol choice? And yet, you claim we are all uneducated and just watch too many ads, unlike you the beer expert. As for thinking and education, it was YOU who thought carbs in beer came from the alcohol. And, no, Curt, you can’t sell me anything, including your weasling BS. You need to get down off your high elitist horse and realize you just don’t know what’s right for other people, or even much about beer at all. Oh, and for further evidence of that, I could take you back to your comments that light beers have hardly any alcohol in them. Must I further expose your ignorance, or have you had enough?

Response:

If we take, for instance, Rochefort 8 or 10, which is a superb beer and contains about 9.2 and 11.3 % vol. alcohol respectively. How much do they contain then?

The only way to tell the carb counts is to get the breweries to analyze their beer for carbs, calories, etc. or do a lab analysis which can get a wee bit expensive after a couple of beers are tested. I’ll tell you right now, however, that you’ll almost never get a carb analysis from a brewer of Belgian beers. Blending of young and old beers and an attitude of "who cares?" when asking for carb counts, is common among Belgian brewers. The U.S. micro industry had the same attitude until low-carb beers came on line. You might note that beer sales for regular-brewed beers are way down, attributed to beer drinkers moving to LC beers or giving up beer in general. In the last few months, micros have suddenly become very responsive to my inquiries as brewers realize that it’s not what they believe about LC diets that counts, it’s what their customers believe. There is also one thing that seems, it’s a bit more complicated. If you take a standard calorie-index book, beer doesn’t contain that much carbohydrate, but if you take an index from Atkins, then it contains 12.5 grams of digestable carbohydrate per 33 cl (standard beer size, I guess that it then must be about the same as 12 oz, why don’t you just use the metric system?). So if a beer contains x grams of carbohydrate, can you be sure that this number really is the one to go for?

The problem with a "standard calorie-index" book or even Atkins is that they give you averages—which are worthless. That’s the whole purpose of my research and subsequent books. If you look in a detailed nutritional index book of foods, you can often find pizza (or bread, cookies, apples, etc.), for instance, with an average carb count, followed by more detailed listings for the carb counts of particular brands. Would you use the average carb count or the more precise carb count for a particular brand? The same principal applies to beer. You can settle for an "average" carb count or get the accurate carb counts for particular brands. How many carbs are in a beer are, in a large degree, irrelevant. If you’re way past Induction and are taking in 60/80/100 carbs a day, are one or two beers going to blow your weight loss or maintenance—especially if you know the real carb counts and not the average carb counts—and can accurately work these numbers into whatever phase you’re on? Moderation, not deprivation

Response:

Does that mean that dark ales, for instance Belgian ales and in particular Trappist-beers, contain much carbohydrate? If we take, for instance, Rochefort 8 or 10, which is a superb beer and contains about 9.2 and 11.3 % vol. alcohol respectively. How much do they contain then? There is also one thing that seems, it’s a bit more complicated. If you take a standard calorie-index book, beer doesn’t contain that much carbohydrate, but if you take an index from Atkins, then it contains 12.5 grams of digestable carbohydrate per 33 cl (standard beer size, I guess that it then must be about the same as 12 oz, why don’t you just use the metric system?). So if a beer contains x grams of carbohydrate, can you be sure that this number really is the one to go for? If beers really contain that much sugar, then it’s a shame. I guess it’s the thing that’s hardest to stay away from. I’d rather stay away from icecream, chocolate etc. but beer? And I mean beer! – Morten – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well since you have read so much on the subject, you would know that 90% of the time a high alcohol beer has more carbs. I NEVER said alcohol was the reason, I just stated that they have more carbs. I have not researched why, but have done lots of searches on the Internet and that is my findings. I don’t drink Bud and the like to be honest. I don’t call that beer. LC beer is crap as well. Pretty much no alcohol at all in it. Just light crap. Now a good Belgium beer like Piraat or maybe a micro knock-off like Golden Monkey, these are real beers and they have plenty of carbs. As far as your books go, I have not read them. I have not seen them. Are they published or just like a school book report? Curt

Response:

Michelob created and defined the LC beer market with Ultra at 2.6g. Miller lite is 3.2. When people use the term LC beer today, I think there is general agreement that it covers those and similar beers. You could even extend it up to 5g or so, which gets you to Coors Light. But, I don’t think when people use the term LC, they are referring to beers with 10g, since in that range you have beers like regular Bud, Coors and Heneiken. None of those are being marketed or called LC beers by anyone, are they?

All right boys. Let me throw some more gas on the fire. A-B with their Mich Ultra was the first brewery that tried to equate that beer with the term "low-carb." At the time, the term "low-carb" in beer was nothing more than marketing spin. There was no legal definition of what constituted a low-carb alcoholic beverage. The only legal definition of a beer with less carbs and/or calories was the term "light." All a brewer had to do was show a reduction in the calories or carbs in their alternative product—as compared to their regular-brewed beer—to classify the beer as "light," i.e. Bud vs. Bud Light, Coors vs. Coors Light, Sam Adams vs. Sam Adams Light, etc. When Mich Ultra came out, soon followed by others, you might have noticed that this beers was still labeled "light," usually in small print. Legally, A-B was required to do this. In April of this year, bowing to market demands, the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau made an interim ruling that a "low-carb" alcoholic beverage could be legally defined as low-carb if it contained 7 carbs or less per serving (serving size was also an issue. It was resolved with the following: beer-12 ounces, wine-5 ounces, distilled products-1.5 ounces). That being said, many of the "light" beers now fall under the low-carb banner. There will be a subsequent ruling on all of this once it’s observed how all of this plays out, with further classifications such as "reduced-carb" for products over 7 carbs to an undetermined top end of a range. In addition, a manufacturer of adult beverages who wishes to place the carb count on all their products must use a "nutritional analysis statement" on the product (either can, bottle, or package) exactly as we have seen on "light" beers since 1994, i.e., carbs, calories, protein, and sodium listed—not just a carb count. This doesn’t take effect until this month (September), not sure of the exact date. Brewers (and others), however, can use up their remaining stocks of non-conforming labels, cans, and packaging (with applied for permission from the TTB), so you probably won’t see full compliance of this nutritional analysis requirement for some time. Now you can argue all day as to what someone personally thinks constitutes a "low-carb" beer, but it doesn’t really matter. The TTB’s legal definition is all that matters. Once again, for those who missed it—Youngs Chocolate Stout 12 oz 16.8 g Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michelob created and defined the LC beer market with Ultra at 2.6g. Miller lite is 3.2. When people use the term LC beer today, I think there is general agreement that it covers those and similar beers. You could even extend it up to 5g or so, which gets you to Coors Light. But, I don’t think when people use the term LC, they are referring to beers with 10g, since in that range you have beers like regular Bud, Coors and Heneiken. None of those are being marketed or called LC beers by anyone, are they? All right boys. Let me throw some more gas on the fire. A-B with their Mich Ultra was the first brewery that tried to equate that beer with the term "low-carb." At the time, the term "low-carb" in beer was nothing more than marketing spin. There was no legal definition of what constituted a low-carb alcoholic beverage. The only legal definition of a beer with less carbs and/or calories was the term "light." All a brewer had to do was show a reduction in the calories or carbs in their alternative product—as compared to their regular-brewed beer—to classify the beer as "light," i.e. Bud vs. Bud Light, Coors vs. Coors Light, Sam Adams vs. Sam Adams Light, etc. When Mich Ultra came out, soon followed by others, you might have noticed that this beers was still labeled "light," usually in small print. Legally, A-B was required to do this. In April of this year, bowing to market demands, the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau made an interim ruling that a "low-carb" alcoholic beverage could be legally defined as low-carb if it contained 7 carbs or less per serving (serving size was also an issue. It was resolved with the following: beer-12 ounces, wine-5 ounces, distilled products-1.5 ounces). That being said, many of the "light" beers now fall under the low-carb banner. There will be a subsequent ruling on all of this once it’s observed how all of this plays out, with further classifications such as "reduced-carb" for products over 7 carbs to an undetermined top end of a range. In addition, a manufacturer of adult beverages who wishes to place the carb count on all their products must use a "nutritional analysis statement" on the product (either can, bottle, or package) exactly as we have seen on "light" beers since 1994, i.e., carbs, calories, protein, and sodium listed—not just a carb count. This doesn’t take effect until this month (September), not sure of the exact date. Brewers (and others), however, can use up their remaining stocks of non-conforming labels, cans, and packaging (with applied for permission from the TTB), so you probably won’t see full compliance of this nutritional analysis requirement for some time. Now you can argue all day as to what someone personally thinks constitutes a "low-carb" beer, but it doesn’t really matter. The TTB’s legal definition is all that matters. Once again, for those who missed it—Youngs Chocolate Stout 12 oz 16.8 g Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

No need to argue. I already won that. The decision on what is LC and not LC is an individual decision. I could care less what the advertisers say. I look at the actual carbs and decide if it is in my own carb allotment. For me Guinness is a LC beer. Some of the Belgium’s I drink are not. Enjoy, Curt

Response:

Guinness is often thought of as a high calorie beer but the official word from Guinness is that it is less than 11 calories per ounce. As far as your books go, I have not read them. I have not seen them. Are they published or just like a school book report?

Guinness is brewed in 51 countries and the carbohydrate count for this product varies from an anecdotal 5.20 grams of carbohydrates per 12-ounce serving (from Stout by Michael J. Lewis; Brewers Publications, 1995), up to a documented 17 grams or so, depending on where it’s brewed. The home office for Guinness (Diageo) says a 12-ounce serving comes in at around 10 carbs. The Guinness in Australia, however, hits the high end, though with no understanding as to why. A recent check was just done with the Lion-Nathan Brewery for their version of Guinness Draught for New Zealand-5.50 carbs in a 12-ounce serving. In Nigeria, Africa, however, where three Guinness breweries are located, local grains such as maize and sorghum are used in the dark brew. No numbers from their brews. Analyses of Guinness Stout done in 1995 and 1998 at the lab services division of the Siebel Institute of Technology in Chicago (the oldest school for professional brewers—1875 or so), puts the carb count for a 12-ounce serving at 13.79 and 09.98 respectively. Take all of this with the understanding the the U.S. Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) allows a variance of up to 20 + or – on stated carb counts of beer labels. How yeasts act and the extraction of sugar from grains from various regions—-and successive harvests affected by weather conditions and such, all contribute to the somewhat non-precise measurement of carbohydrates in beer. So how many carbs in Guinness? Which Guinness and from where? I give up! My suggestion? When in doubt, remember that the draught (draft) version hits the lower end of the carb range. As for my books (book reports don’t get you on ESPN2, Fox News Channel or ABC’s ‘The View’), God forbid if I put a link to them on this ng to my books or websites. Some of my ‘favorite’ posters have already had my ISP chase me when I did. A simple Google search will lead you to further information. Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

Response:

Does anyone happen to know the carb/calorie count on Youngs Double Chocolate Stout?

Young’s Chocolate Stout 12 oz 16.8 g brought to you by The Low-Carb Bartender

Response:

As for my books (book reports don’t get you on ESPN2, Fox News Channel or ABC’s ‘The View’), God forbid if I put a link to them on this ng to my books or websites. Some of my ‘favorite’ posters have already had my ISP chase me when I did. A simple Google search will lead you to further information. Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

LOL, I was kidding about the book report part. I am glad you are not promoting as much as you used to. No need with the LC craze going on. I will take a look at your books. I drink most all micros and imports, so I don’t know if your books would help in knowing for me. I will be interested if my findings about amount of alcohol and carbs are correct. Keeping in mind, I never said alcohol was the cause, just that they seem to rise and fall together. Curt

Response:

On another issue raised by Curt, he claims that contrary to what one might guess, Guiness is LC. I’ve seen this claim made many times, but with no specific numbers to back it up, which means it’s just about worthless. I did find this on a website: Worthless? As you just posted, it is LC compared to many beers. If you want to kick back and have a Guiness, you can and keep your carbs under 30 or so. Not bad IMHO. I can certainly eat 100g of carbs every day and not gain, so I am in luck when it comes to this beer.

Yes, that’s right, it’s worthless claiming something is low carb without knowing what the specific carb count is. BTW, if you’ve researched 100’s of beers, why didn’t you just tell us what the carb count of Guiness actually was when you made the claim that it was LC? It’s nice that your carb budget is so generous. However, if you look at the typical thread here, people are worrying about the rounding of carbs in a spoon of product like Splenda or Ketchup. So, I think for you to make the blanket statement that a beer with 10g of carbs is LC, is misleading at best. Especially when many of the best selling regular beers consumed in America are in that range. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.briansbelly.com/beerbelly/guinness.shtml Guinness is often thought of as a high calorie beer but the official word from Guinness is that it is less than 11 calories per ounce. A 12oz serving has 125 calories, 9.8 grams of carbs and it’s alcoholic content is 4.2%. For comparison, 12 ounces of Budweiser is 150 calories and 11 grams carbs, 12 ounces of Heineken is 150 calories and 12.2 grams of carbs, 12 ounces of Corona Extra is 148 calories and 14.1 grams of carbs, and SURPRISE… a Sam Adams Light has 126 calories and 10.9 grams of carbs. Of course, I don’t know anyone who only drinks 12 ounces of Guinness (or any beer for that matter) so your mileage will vary. If this is correct, it shows a number of things. First, that with about 10 carbs, Guiness is like a regular Bud or Heineken and not a LC beer. Um, you are missing a big point here. You can not compare Guinness with Bud and the like. You are comparing apples and oranges with this statement. As far as a real beer goes, Guinness is LC.

Following this twisted logic, I could claim that a regular crust pizza is LC too, simply by comparing it to "real" sicilian thick crust pizza. Does that make it LC or a good choice for someone looking for a LC snack? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Second, with 11 carbs, Sam Adams Light has as many carbs as a Bud or Heineken which shows that all light beers are not LC. As I recall, even Coors Light has about twice the carbs that a Miller Lite or Michelob Ultra has. Of course, one could argue whether 5 carbs vs 2.6 really mattters and that really depends on how many you drink. Personally, for a LC beer, I like the taste of Ultra and since it’s also the lowest out there, it’s my choice. I also like the idea of supporting companies that put all the info on the label, instead of keeping it a secret. I think this shows what I have known all along. The safest and true LC beers are the ones that are labeled with the carb count. For those wishing to drink other beers, they can either do it without knowing how many carbs are in there or obtain an accurate reference that lists them. Once again, you are talking about crap beers. You can’t compare what you are trying to compare. If you go out and buy a good micro sometime and try real beers, you will understand what I am talking about. I guess I take it for granted that people have tried some real beer. Curt

OK, so now BUD, Heneiken, Sam Adams Light, Miller Lite, and Mich Ultra are all crap beers. Thanks a lot for your opinion, Mr. Beer snob. Like I and the rest of the world haven’t tried micro brews. Guess what, we have. I like some of them from time to time. And I think many of them are pure crap, but perhaps appealing to beer snobs like you. The same expert, who a few posts back, claimed that carbs in beer come from the alcohol. The fact remains that the major pilsner companies have the majority market share, that is what people drink the most, regardless of what you think of it. Michelob created and defined the LC beer market with Ultra at 2.6g. Miller lite is 3.2. When people use the term LC beer today, I think there is general agreement that it covers those and similar beers. You could even extend it up to 5g or so, which gets you to Coors Light. But, I don’t think when people use the term LC, they are referring to beers with 10g, since in that range you have beers like regular Bud, Coors and Heneiken. None of those are being marketed or called LC beers by anyone, are they? So, you can have your own little definition of what’s LC, but your terminology isn’t consistent with the rest of the world.

Response:

Well since you have read so much on the subject, you would know that 90% of the time a high alcohol beer has more carbs. I NEVER said alcohol was the reason, I just stated that they have more carbs. I have not researched why, but have done lots of searches on the Internet and that is my findings. I don’t drink Bud and the like to be honest. I don’t call that beer. LC beer is crap as well. Pretty much no alcohol at all in it. Just light crap. Now a good Belgium beer like Piraat or maybe a micro knock-off like Golden Monkey, these are real beers and they have plenty of carbs. As far as your books go, I have not read them. I have not seen them. Are they published or just like a school book report? Curt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you’ve drunk hundreds of beers, but I’ve researched and written 2 books on the subject. Think about how wrong your premise is. Whether it’s in beer, wine, or distilled products…ethanol is ethanol (you do know what ethanol is, don’t you?) There are NO carbs in alcohol…ethyl alcohol, ethanol… Since it took me years of correspondence with 100s of breweries, I’d sure like to know how you’ved "looked at 100’s of beers and the carb counts and alcohol%?" It’s not something you can do on a casual basis. That would also be pretty amazing considering that the carb counts of beers are not available on the labels, advertising, or promotional literature of these regular-brewed products. What most often makes SOME high alcohol beers high in carbs is the yeast and the way the high alcohol affects it. Some high alcohol beers are brewed with yeasts that cannot handle the higher-alcohol environment they create during fermentation. In other words, they’re so efficient that they actully create a toxic environment of too much alcohol—and die. This leaves plenty of unfermented simple sugars laying around that give the beer a high carb count. So once again…the alcohol itself has nothing to do with the carb counts of beer. It’s what’s left over after fermentation, in other words, residual sugar/carbs, that affect the total carbohydrate count. P.S. Before whiskey and vodka are distilled, they must be fermented in the same process as brewing beer. The low-alcohol liquid is often referred to as "beer" by distillers until it heads to the distillation process. You do understand the difference between fermentation and distillation, don’t you? You are wrong. When it comes to beer the higher the alcohol the higher the carbs. I don’t know about non-alcoholic beer, but if you look at carb counts and alcohol you will see they are directly related in beer. Vodka and Whiskey is not beer nor are they made the same way. I have looked at 100’s of beers and the carb counts and alcohol %’s and they are related. Curt Generally beers carbs come from how much alcohol it has. Totally wrong. There are NO carbs in alcohol. Are there carbs in vodka, whiskey, etc? Of course not. As another example of how wrong this statement above is…NA (non-alcohol) beers are much higher in carbs that a standard American pilsner (Bud, MGD, Coors, etc.) By your reasoning, since they have no (almost no) alcohol in them, it would stand to reason that these beers would also be lower in carbohydrates. Ain’t so. As a matter of fact, they are typically much higher in carbs. BTW, I described this no alcohol/high carb phenomonon in my first two books on the subject and believe I also mentioned this on my recent appearance on ‘The View.’ Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

Response:

Worthless? As you just posted, it is LC compared to many beers. If you want to kick back and have a Guiness, you can and keep your carbs under 30 or so. Not bad IMHO. I can certainly eat 100g of carbs every day and not gain, so I am in luck when it comes to this beer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.briansbelly.com/beerbelly/guinness.shtml Guinness is often thought of as a high calorie beer but the official word from Guinness is that it is less than 11 calories per ounce. A 12oz serving has 125 calories, 9.8 grams of carbs and it’s alcoholic content is 4.2%. For comparison, 12 ounces of Budweiser is 150 calories and 11 grams carbs, 12 ounces of Heineken is 150 calories and 12.2 grams of carbs, 12 ounces of Corona Extra is 148 calories and 14.1 grams of carbs, and SURPRISE… a Sam Adams Light has 126 calories and 10.9 grams of carbs. Of course, I don’t know anyone who only drinks 12 ounces of Guinness (or any beer for that matter) so your mileage will vary. If this is correct, it shows a number of things. First, that with about 10 carbs, Guiness is like a regular Bud or Heineken and not a LC beer.

Um, you are missing a big point here. You can not compare Guinness with Bud and the like. You are comparing apples and oranges with this statement. As far as a real beer goes, Guinness is LC. Second, with 11 carbs, Sam Adams Light has as many carbs as a Bud or Heineken which shows that all light beers are not LC. As I recall, even Coors Light has about twice the carbs that a Miller Lite or Michelob Ultra has. Of course, one could argue whether 5 carbs vs 2.6 really mattters and that really depends on how many you drink. Personally, for a LC beer, I like the taste of Ultra and since it’s also the lowest out there, it’s my choice. I also like the idea of supporting companies that put all the info on the label, instead of keeping it a secret. I think this shows what I have known all along. The safest and true LC beers are the ones that are labeled with the carb count. For those wishing to drink other beers, they can either do it without knowing how many carbs are in there or obtain an accurate reference that lists them.

Once again, you are talking about crap beers. You can’t compare what you are trying to compare. If you go out and buy a good micro sometime and try real beers, you will understand what I am talking about. I guess I take it for granted that people have tried some real beer. Curt

Response:

Does anyone happen to know the carb/calorie count on Youngs Double Chocolate Stout? I probably ought to just drink it in blissful ignorance….. Robyn

Response:

|| Does anyone happen to know the carb/calorie count on Youngs Double || Chocolate Stout? || || I probably ought to just drink it in blissful ignorance….. Yes, either that or don’t drink it.

Response:

|| Does anyone happen to know the carb/calorie count on Youngs Double || Chocolate Stout? || || I probably ought to just drink it in blissful ignorance….. Yes, either that or don’t drink it.

I drank it & it was YUMMY. Since I didn’t know how many calories/carbs it had I just assumed it was a buttload and called it a dessert instead of a beverage:) I’ve had it in the fridge for about 6 months waiting for the moment when I wanted a beer. After 2.5 years without a beer, I sure as heck wasn’t going to drink anything boring and ordinary:)Robyn

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|| ||| |||

||||| Does anyone happen to know the carb/calorie count on Youngs Double ||||| Chocolate Stout? ||||| ||||| I probably ought to just drink it in blissful ignorance….. ||| ||| Yes, either that or don’t drink it. ||| ||| || || I drank it & it was YUMMY. || || Since I didn’t know how many calories/carbs it had I just assumed it || was a buttload and called it a dessert instead of a beverage:) || || I’ve had it in the fridge for about 6 months waiting for the moment || when I wanted a beer. || || After 2.5 years without a beer, I sure as heck wasn’t going to drink || anything boring and ordinary:)Robyn I think you’ve more than earned that beer, dear! Besides, those extra carbs will help you push just a bit harder in your next workout.

Response:

Yum, that is a good winter or fall beer. I don’t know that carb count, but it may not be as high as you think. Generally beers carbs come from how much alcohol it has. For example Guinness is low alcohol so the carbs are pretty low. Amazingly not much higher than a so called low carb beer. All lite beers are low carb and always have been. Are they low carb enough to drink on a LC diet? That depends on you I guess. I retain quite a bit of water when I drink. I have been having trouble controlling my drinking lately. Oh well. Curt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone happen to know the carb/calorie count on Youngs Double Chocolate Stout? I probably ought to just drink it in blissful ignorance….. Robyn

Response:

Generally beers carbs come from how much alcohol it has.

Totally wrong. There are NO carbs in alcohol. Are there carbs in vodka, whiskey, etc? Of course not. As another example of how wrong this statement above is…NA (non-alcohol) beers are much higher in carbs that a standard American pilsner (Bud, MGD, Coors, etc.) By your reasoning, since they have no (almost no) alcohol in them, it would stand to reason that these beers would also be lower in carbohydrates. Ain’t so. As a matter of fact, they are typically much higher in carbs. BTW, I described this no alcohol/high carb phenomonon in my first two books on the subject and believe I also mentioned this on my recent appearance on ‘The View.’ Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

Response:

You are wrong. When it comes to beer the higher the alcohol the higher the carbs. I don’t know about non-alcoholic beer, but if you look at carb counts and alcohol you will see they are directly related in beer. Vodka and Whiskey is not beer nor are they made the same way. I have looked at 100’s of beers and the carb counts and alcohol %’s and they are related. Curt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Generally beers carbs come from how much alcohol it has. Totally wrong. There are NO carbs in alcohol. Are there carbs in vodka, whiskey, etc? Of course not. As another example of how wrong this statement above is…NA (non-alcohol) beers are much higher in carbs that a standard American pilsner (Bud, MGD, Coors, etc.) By your reasoning, since they have no (almost no) alcohol in them, it would stand to reason that these beers would also be lower in carbohydrates. Ain’t so. As a matter of fact, they are typically much higher in carbs. BTW, I described this no alcohol/high carb phenomonon in my first two books on the subject and believe I also mentioned this on my recent appearance on ‘The View.’ Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

Response:

On another issue raised by Curt, he claims that contrary to what one might guess, Guiness is LC. I’ve seen this claim made many times, but with no specific numbers to back it up, which means it’s just about worthless. I did find this on a website: http://www.briansbelly.com/beerbelly/guinness.shtml Guinness is often thought of as a high calorie beer but the official word from Guinness is that it is less than 11 calories per ounce. A 12oz serving has 125 calories, 9.8 grams of carbs and it’s alcoholic content is 4.2%. For comparison, 12 ounces of Budweiser is 150 calories and 11 grams carbs, 12 ounces of Heineken is 150 calories and 12.2 grams of carbs, 12 ounces of Corona Extra is 148 calories and 14.1 grams of carbs, and SURPRISE… a Sam Adams Light has 126 calories and 10.9 grams of carbs. Of course, I don’t know anyone who only drinks 12 ounces of Guinness (or any beer for that matter) so your mileage will vary. If this is correct, it shows a number of things. First, that with about 10 carbs, Guiness is like a regular Bud or Heineken and not a LC beer. Second, with 11 carbs, Sam Adams Light has as many carbs as a Bud or Heineken which shows that all light beers are not LC. As I recall, even Coors Light has about twice the carbs that a Miller Lite or Michelob Ultra has. Of course, one could argue whether 5 carbs vs 2.6 really mattters and that really depends on how many you drink. Personally, for a LC beer, I like the taste of Ultra and since it’s also the lowest out there, it’s my choice. I also like the idea of supporting companies that put all the info on the label, instead of keeping it a secret. I think this shows what I have known all along. The safest and true LC beers are the ones that are labeled with the carb count. For those wishing to drink other beers, they can either do it without knowing how many carbs are in there or obtain an accurate reference that lists them.

Response:

Maybe you’ve drunk hundreds of beers, but I’ve researched and written 2 books on the subject. Think about how wrong your premise is. Whether it’s in beer, wine, or distilled products…ethanol is ethanol (you do know what ethanol is, don’t you?) There are NO carbs in alcohol…ethyl alcohol, ethanol… Since it took me years of correspondence with 100s of breweries, I’d sure like to know how you’ved "looked at 100’s of beers and the carb counts and alcohol%?" It’s not something you can do on a casual basis. That would also be pretty amazing considering that the carb counts of beers are not available on the labels, advertising, or promotional literature of these regular-brewed products. What most often makes SOME high alcohol beers high in carbs is the yeast and the way the high alcohol affects it. Some high alcohol beers are brewed with yeasts that cannot handle the higher-alcohol environment they create during fermentation. In other words, they’re so efficient that they actully create a toxic environment of too much alcohol—and die. This leaves plenty of unfermented simple sugars laying around that give the beer a high carb count. So once again…the alcohol itself has nothing to do with the carb counts of beer. It’s what’s left over after fermentation, in other words, residual sugar/carbs, that affect the total carbohydrate count. P.S. Before whiskey and vodka are distilled, they must be fermented in the same process as brewing beer. The low-alcohol liquid is often referred to as "beer" by distillers until it heads to the distillation process. You do understand the difference between fermentation and distillation, don’t you?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are wrong. When it comes to beer the higher the alcohol the higher the carbs. I don’t know about non-alcoholic beer, but if you look at carb counts and alcohol you will see they are directly related in beer. Vodka and Whiskey is not beer nor are they made the same way. I have looked at 100’s of beers and the carb counts and alcohol %’s and they are related. Curt Generally beers carbs come from how much alcohol it has. Totally wrong. There are NO carbs in alcohol. Are there carbs in vodka, whiskey, etc? Of course not. As another example of how wrong this statement above is…NA (non-alcohol) beers are much higher in carbs that a standard American pilsner (Bud, MGD, Coors, etc.) By your reasoning, since they have no (almost no) alcohol in them, it would stand to reason that these beers would also be lower in carbohydrates. Ain’t so. As a matter of fact, they are typically much higher in carbs. BTW, I described this no alcohol/high carb phenomonon in my first two books on the subject and believe I also mentioned this on my recent appearance on ‘The View.’ Bob Skilnik The Low-Carb Bartender

Response:

Gluten/Wheat Allergy

admin — Mon, 12 Jan 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Btw guys, it doesn’t matter whether a beer uses the preservative or not. Small amounts of Sulfite are produced during the normal manufacture of beer. Each company will generally have an internal standard that they keep their beer to, i.e. when i contacted a local brewer here in sydney, they told me their company internal standard is under 25ppm. This is not alot, but as a cumulative effect with other foods, it adds up. Also wine.Organic wine is a load of hogwash as far as I am concerned. If you are concerned about your environment, great! If you are concerned about sulfites….. no good. When you grow grapes for wine, you have to keep the bugs on the vine down (otherwise u can get blight and essentially lose your crop). Organic wines don’t use any chemicals to do this, they use mulches and so on. This helps, but doesn’t kill them all, so in the making of the wine they would need to add some sulfites or other bug-killing chemicals to get rid of them, or else the wiine will rot in hte cask or bottle. A preservative free wine, won’t be organic, as they want as little as possible contaminants in the grapes, so they don’t need to kill bugs. Again wine produces it’s own sulfites, not much, but some. Also I don’t know about in other countries, but here in oz, our labelling laws state that if there is more then a certain limit of something, it must be listed as an ingredient. I know when you brew your own beer, part of the fermentation occurs in the bottle…… and I assume it must happen with commercial beers or you’d never get the bottle under any pressure. Wines? I dunno, but beer, they may be able to get away with not listing the sulfite initially, but its concentration incressing over time in the bottle. A rule of thumb, is avoid wine and beer. If you drink it, don’t drink much at all (I limit to 1 beer of any size up to 3 times a week max) and drink preservative free wine (realising it ain’t preservative free, but a small amount (say 25 ppm)is a hell of alot better then concentrations in the 1000′ s ppm). I have no idea whatsoever about the sterilizing the bottles with sulfte solutions, but I know there are two brands here in oz, that mustn’t as they are the ones I have been told are fine by my allergist…. carlton cold, and cascade brand. I’m not sure if this is due to a different processing method these beers use or what, but I assume it is. REgards, Patsy "bogus address" wrote in message

news:11792@purr.demon.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Peter Weaver writes: > > Traditional British beers use Hops instead of barley, > They do NOT. Hops are used as well as the barley – they’re a flavouring > and preserving agent. > > There are organic beers over here that do not contain sulphate > > preservatives, > No there AREN’T. We have asked the breweries directly, have you? > It is just plain ILLEGAL to sell a bottled beer where the bottles have > not been sterilized with sulfite (not "sulphate" – that is neither an > allergen nor any use as a preservative). If you want to avoid sulfur > dioxide or sulfite in beer you have to brew it yourself. Which is not > very difficult and lets you get round the whole problem, albeit you’re > going to have to drink a lot of it. > The sulfite is not listed on the label because it isn’t an ingredient > added to the beer. The fact that technically it’s part of the packaging > doesn’t make it any less dangerous for someone with a severe sulfite > allergy. > ========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <======== > Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 > food intolerance data & recipes, > Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

Response:

Traditional British beers use Hops instead of barley, this type of beer is not a lager and will taste very different, but examples of real british ales include Black Sheep, ( and as far as I know it doesnt contain preservatice). There are organic beers over here that do not contain sulphate preservatives, some bitters that are based on hops, and some that are lagers based on barley. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -bogus address wrote: >>I stopped drinking beer as I was told it had wheat etc in it but went >>on to lager over xmas. I picked Stella Artois and Budweiser but >>somebody told me that these aren’t wheat free as they have Barley? >>in them. > Most beer is brewed with barley, which contains gluten. Some Chinese, > Japanese and American beers use only non-gluten grains (rice, maize) – > you really don’t want to know about the American ones but the Oriental > ones can be okay. Stella will certainly use barley. >>I also found I wasn’t ill after drinking organic red wine but ill >>with non organic. Sulphates I think possibly. > All wine contains sulfite unless you make it yourself (and maybe not > even then). So does all beer bottled in the UK – food safety standards > require the use of sulfites for bottle sterilization and they can’t get > it all out. If you had different reactions to organic and non-organic > wines, sulfites can’t be the explanation. > ========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <======== > Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 > food intolerance data & recipes, > Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

Response:

Peter Weaver writes: > Traditional British beers use Hops instead of barley,

They do NOT. Hops are used as well as the barley – they’re a flavouring and preserving agent. > There are organic beers over here that do not contain sulphate > preservatives,

No there AREN’T. We have asked the breweries directly, have you? It is just plain ILLEGAL to sell a bottled beer where the bottles have not been sterilized with sulfite (not "sulphate" – that is neither an allergen nor any use as a preservative). If you want to avoid sulfur dioxide or sulfite in beer you have to brew it yourself. Which is not very difficult and lets you get round the whole problem, albeit you’re going to have to drink a lot of it. The sulfite is not listed on the label because it isn’t an ingredient added to the beer. The fact that technically it’s part of the packaging doesn’t make it any less dangerous for someone with a severe sulfite allergy. ========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 food intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

Response:

I stopped drinking beer as I was told it had wheat etc in it but went on to lager over xmas. I picked Stella Artois and Budweiser but somebody told me that these aren’t wheat free as they have Barley? in them. I also found I wasn’t ill after drinking organic red wine but ill with non organic. Sulphates I think possibly. Temperance

Response:

> I stopped drinking beer as I was told it had wheat etc in it but went > on to lager over xmas. I picked Stella Artois and Budweiser but > somebody told me that these aren’t wheat free as they have Barley? > in them.

Most beer is brewed with barley, which contains gluten. Some Chinese, Japanese and American beers use only non-gluten grains (rice, maize) – you really don’t want to know about the American ones but the Oriental ones can be okay. Stella will certainly use barley. > I also found I wasn’t ill after drinking organic red wine but ill > with non organic. Sulphates I think possibly.

All wine contains sulfite unless you make it yourself (and maybe not even then). So does all beer bottled in the UK – food safety standards require the use of sulfites for bottle sterilization and they can’t get it all out. If you had different reactions to organic and non-organic wines, sulfites can’t be the explanation. ========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 food intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

Response:

How do most people shop?

admin — Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

To the selling vets out there: Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches? I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth listing an item (something minor, like a child’s sweater) under 2 categories — though I never do. I can see using more than one category if you’re selling a specialty item–something like a vintage Russian clock– but does it pay off to use multiple categories for ordinary things?

I think the cost outweighs the benefits on common items, or on items where almost everyone who would want it and who would search by category would be looking in the same category. They also have to be different enough categories where a more general category search wouldn’t pull it up. Let me give you an example. Frankoma made a lot of pottery for the Sunray DX Oil Company in Oklahoma. When I get a piece, I list it under the Frankoma category in Pottery & Glass, and under collectibles as an oil company advertising piece. That way I get the people who browse the Frankoma category, and people who browse the oil company collectibles categories, and they aren’t the same group of people. It’s a cross-collectible, and listing in two categories can be very effective in those situations. If you had a hobnail Fenton Bell, you could list it in the bells section under Fenton in the Glass category, or in hobnail section under Fenton in the Glass category. Both are correct, but listing in both is pointless. Most people are going to do a search under the entire Fenton area, and pull up everything, although listing it under bells would probably yield a better price. The odds of getting any more money by listing it in both categories is pretty small.

Response:

declared: To the selling vets out there: Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches? I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth listing an item (something minor, like a child’s sweater) under 2 categories — though I never do. I can see using more than one category if you’re selling a specialty item–something like a vintage Russian clock– but does it pay off to use multiple categories for ordinary things?

i only list in two categories when they are separate main categories. i.e. a signed astronaut book might be listed in both bookssignednon-fiction and collectibeshistoricalspace. when searching i nearly always search the entire site by keyword. robert "there must be one night in your life that you will remember forever. The must be one night for everyone. And if you know that the night is coming on and that this night will be that particular night, then take it and don’t question it and don’t talk about it to anyone ever after that. For if you let it pass it might not come again. Many have let it pass, many have seen it go by and have never seen another like it, when all the circumstances of weather, light, moon and time, of night hill and warm grass and train and town and distance were balanced upon the trembling of a finger."

Response:

To the selling vets out there: Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches?…

Perhaps you should be addressing the BUYING vets out there. Lumpy — http://www.digitalcartography.com

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When buying I always use keywords I don’t list under 2 categories, but have spotted that books about pubs and breweries do better in the "collectibles/breweriana" section than under any of the books sections. Feathers

Response:

I buy and sell on ebay and I always keyword search to buy. The categories search is only used when I’m shopping for one thing – antique postcards. I noticed a while back that a percentage of postcard sellers don’t actually use the keyword "postcard" in their title!

Just look for "PC". Then try to sort the postcards out from the computers.

Response:

To the selling vets out there: Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches?… Perhaps you should be addressing the BUYING vets out there.

I see your point and it had crossed my mind, but they’re not the ones fiddling with earthshattering "to-list-in-multiple-categories or not-to-list-in-multiple-categories" dilemmas. They’ve also done their market research. I suppose I could have created two threads, one to buying vets and one to selling vets, but the variety of helpful responses this one generated made it clear that it’s not necessary to file a general question in two separate categories.

Response:

Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches? I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth listing an item (something minor, like a child’s sweater) under 2 categories — though I never do. I can see using more than one category if you’re selling a specialty item–something like a vintage Russian clock– but does it pay off to use multiple categories for ordinary things?

I personally shop for specific items I want by specific searches, but if I’m interested in, say, new yarn for Barbie dresses, I do a "going, going, gone" search in the yarn category to see if something catches my eye. (That’s how I picked up some really cool purple fur yarn recently.) http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/ Kimberly’s Barbie Collection: http://members.aol.com/kimmurphy/barbies.html

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I almost always search by keyword. However, once I FIND something, I will often take a peek _at the category it was found in_ in hopes of finding related interesting items. Also, I DO browse by category for entertainment. Particularly if I see some interesting category that appeals to me. And sometimes I do find things there that I bid on. What this says to me is that it’s probably not worthwhile using multiple categories. — dpbsmith at world dot std dot com (replace "at" with at-sign and "dot" with period and remove spaces)

Response:

Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches

Response:

"Doomella" wrote in a message … Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches? I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth listing an item (something minor, like a child’s sweater) under 2 categories — though I never do. I can see using more than one category if you’re selling a specialty item–something like a vintage Russian clock– but does it pay off to use multiple categories for ordinary things?

Most people do whatever they feel like at any given time. I have several items I buy on a regular basis. Some I search for by title, because I know exactly what I want. Some I search by category beause I don’t know exactly what I’ll find, but I want something in the category. I also have a list of sellers that I check, because even though they have wildly different things at different times, everything they have is a bargain. I just keep checking them until they have something I want. Now, to answer your question as a seller, the item I sell really only fits one category as far as I’m concerned, so that’s all I list it in. Chris

Response:

Doomella said To the selling vets out there: Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches? I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth listing an item (something minor, like a child’s sweater) under 2 categories — though I never do. I can see using more than one category if you’re selling a specialty item–something like a vintage Russian clock– but does it pay off to use multiple categories for ordinary things?

9 times out of 10 I do a keyword search… maybe even 99 times out of 100 in fact. — NEOPETS!!!!! http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=fredajones

Response:

The only time I didn’t keyword search was when I was looking for an item that is commonly called by several names. For that one item, browsing by category was just the ticket. For most other stuff, I don’t think the category makes a huge difference. Sometimes I will go one category down then keyword search to help weed out the crap. Tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To the selling vets out there: Do most people shop by category or by keyword searches? I sometimes wonder whether it’s worth listing an item (something minor, like a child’s sweater) under 2 categories — though I never do. I can see using more than one category if you’re selling a specialty item–something like a vintage Russian clock– but does it pay off to use multiple categories for ordinary things?

Response:

A Canadian apology (wish i was the one who wrote it but i didn't)

admin — Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Herein follows an apology to the american people….rick mercer may have written it (a quote from him was at the bottom that i cut out but i think someone else did….a friend sent it to me, it sums up what i have been trying to say on that ot thread for a while On behalf of Canadians everywhere I’d like to offer an apology to the United States of America. We haven’t been getting along very well recently and for that, I am truly sorry. I’m sorry we called George Bush a moron. He is a moron but, it wasn’t nice of us to point it out. If it’s any consolation, the fact that he’s a moron shouldn’t reflect poorly on the people of America. After all it’s not like you actually elected him. I’m sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees than you doesn’t give us the right to sell you lumber that’s cheaper and better than your own. I’m sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defence I guess our excuse would be that our teams were much, much, much, much better than yours. I’m sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. I notice you’ve rebuilt it! It’s Very Nice. I’m sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with Your beer but, we feel your Pain. I’m sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you’re going up against a crazed dictator, you want to have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons. And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I’m sorry that we’re constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you’re not upset over this. We’ve seen what you do to countries you get upset with. Thank you.

Response:

Be glad i didn’t include the mercer quote…it was equally funny to a canadian but i didn’t think it would go over well in the us. He used to work a canadian show called this hour has 22 minutes (political/general comedy done as newsshow). For a while about once a month or two they had a segment called TALKING TO AMERICANS. It was hilarious…he would get people to congradulate president crouton (we have a prime minister called chretien) congradulate us on our new igloo parliament (we are snow free in ottawa at least half the year) and other amusing things….the americans seemed willing to believe anything he said and it didn’t look like he was trying to hard to get the stupid ones….in one show he had the governor of the state congradulate us on i believe the igloo although it might have been somethingn else. On another point in grade 10 some of my friends said they convinced new york city folks in march they came down to the us by dogsled and changed into a bus at the border…i wasn’t sure i believed this but when i went to washington and south virginia i convinced a few believe it or not, and it was april. The point is how oblvious americans seem to be to their northern neighbours even though it seems i’m expected to know who the hell in your government makes which law, if it needs to be vetoed and so on and i’m called ignorant if i don’t by many people who know nothing about how a law is passed in canada (probably not even how many readings it goes through). Generally i know more about how the states work then you do about canada. Of course there are always exceptions which are nice Marcie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Herein follows an apology to the american people….rick mercer may have written it (a quote from him was at the bottom that i cut out but i think someone else did….a friend sent it to me, it sums up what i have been trying to say on that ot thread for a while On behalf of Canadians everywhere I’d like to offer an apology to the United States of America. We haven’t been getting along very well recently and for that, I am truly sorry. I’m sorry we called George Bush a moron. He is a moron but, it wasn’t nice of us to point it out. If it’s any consolation, the fact that he’s a moron shouldn’t reflect poorly on the people of America. After all it’s not like you actually elected him. I’m sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees than you doesn’t give us the right to sell you lumber that’s cheaper and better than your own. I’m sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defence I guess our excuse would be that our teams were much, much, much, much better than yours. I’m sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. I notice you’ve rebuilt it! It’s Very Nice. I’m sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with Your beer but, we feel your Pain. I’m sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you’re going up against a crazed dictator, you want to have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons. And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I’m sorry that we’re constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you’re not upset over this. We’ve seen what you do to countries you get upset with.

Effective humor has a core of truth. I find no core of truth in any of the above except the hockey part. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

There are many truths in the above some of which you would need to recognzie aside from our wonderful hockey teams. One or our diplomatics types at talks of something did call Bush a moron. And he is one…and i know most of you americans feel he was elected in a democratic fashion but we don’t….its part of why we are not as agast at you as we should be. We do have better softwood and more of it, which is why you are continunally putting tarrifs on it despite a fair trade deal. If yours was competitive you wouldn’t need a tarrif by definition. And you did enter ww2 two years after everybody else does, any history book can tell you that. Marcie

Response:

Herein follows an apology to the american people….rick mercer may have Effective humor has a core of truth. I find no core of truth in any of the above except the hockey part.

What about the beer part?

Response:

Herein follows an apology to the american people….rick mercer may have Effective humor has a core of truth. I find no core of truth in any of the above except the hockey part. What about the beer part?

Depends, their beer sucks compared to German beer so everything is relative.

Response:

Aw come on. There’s lots of good US beer if you go beyond Bud and Miller. Lots and lots. If you don’t believe me, I’ll send you a list of recommendations And while I’m at it, not all of us agree that Bush was really elected democratically. And even those of us who did vote for Bush (no, I didn’t) couldn’t have predicted his actions at this point in history. We just have to live with it, and raise our voices. I recently spent a few days in Montreal, and the people there were as nice as could be. No one was distainful of my US citizenship at all, and not a single person was rude or unpleasant. Aside from it being the coldest place I’ve ever been to (and I’m from MA where we are having one hell of a winter), it was a lovely time. You can’t judge the people of a country by the actions of their politicians. And you can’t judge a beer by Budweiser or Miller. Deb R.

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Anyone who thinks that Canada has superior beer has never tried Arrogant Bastard

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That would be written by someone who’s never tasted Arrogant Bastard Ale Whiteknucke I.P.A. Ruination Double I.P.A. …and the like Joe Parsons

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GMTA, John. Joe Parsons (The Authentic)

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I generally hate beer whatever the type. something in it makes me throw up (and any coolers made from similar stuff…i need to get the liquor store coolers). But drinking beer for a while was the social thing to do, so i found a so-so brand (black label) and only drank one or else waiting a couple of hours before the second…i’m much happier now that cider is on tap at most places now…(i actually like cider). I’m really not supposed to drink because of some of my meds but sometimes i’ll slip in one or two…and alcohol itself isn’t the problem i can drink at least3 times the cider vs. beer without throwing up and there is more alcohol in cider. Having tasted american beer i wonder how your teenagers ever manage to get drunk or why you make them wait so long. Have you heard the joke about what do a couple of kids in a boat fooling around and an american beer have in common: they are fucking close to water. Last time i went to the states the beer was cheaper than the pop so we bought a 24. Four or five years later i threw it out…and it wasn’t fair it was the brand i usually drank i made sure of that…problem was it was the american version Marcie who know maybe i’d throw up on one german beer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Herein follows an apology to the american people….rick mercer may have Effective humor has a core of truth. I find no core of truth in any of the above except the hockey part. What about the beer part? Aw come on. There’s lots of good US beer if you go beyond Bud and Miller. Lots and lots. If you don’t believe me, I’ll send you a list of recommendations

Come on show me an american beer that has 5%, the way we measure it in canada(we do it by volume i believe you do it by weight). Some of our beers go up to 7%. I’m sure that there are better and worse american beers though And while I’m at it, not all of us agree that Bush was really elected democratically. And even those of us who did vote for Bush (no, I didn’t) couldn’t have predicted his actions at this point in history. We just have to live with it, and raise our voices.

glad to hear that from someone here. i seem to spend hours responding to raising my voice but i think its important…i wouldn’t have been all that surprised by some foreign problem with bush, i thought it would be on nafta though I recently spent a few days in Montreal, and the people there were as nice as could be. No one was distainful of my US citizenship at all, and not a single person was rude or unpleasant. Aside from it being the coldest place I’ve ever been to (and I’m from MA where we are having one hell of a winter), it was a lovely time.

Montreal is nice. If you had nice american accents they probably treated you better than they treat us english canadians. I took french immersion from kindergarten till the end of grade 11. Unfortunately the school decidd to teach us international accents instead of quebecois so they can spot us a mile away even when our accent is perfect(in fact i was talking to a guy from france and explaining that some of the problems he might have had since he had gotten to montreal might have to do with his accent). I worked in french for a while. I can talk french fine, but in certain parts of montreal i could be speaking greek. I even tried to play american but i wasn’t that good at it (its not something i usually play). All i wanted was the train stop it took me almost 15 mintues to get directions clear enough to say go up a few blocks and look for his building….on the other hand in more french areas or montreal (east island) the francophones seem to have no problem understanding me. All they speak is french and if they want to do business with me they will have to put up with my french which doesn’t appear to trying…me and a friend were able to get decent information on how to read the movie section to figure out where a film was and if it was in english or french from a waitress where we ate. Maybe they are less insecure in east montreal…they know french will continue to rule and if they can understand us whats the problem…especially considering that makes up billingual when most of them are uniligual (but much better at english than english unilinugual). Amercians are fine generally. I travelled all over the states as a kid. The only time i got real annoyed was when i was hicking into a south virginia town from the discount lots (i had no $ to spend there and was with school i thought i’d get an ice cream cone it was less than 2 miles). I was wearing normal clothes….i got honked at all the way into that town! Lot of livisious offers too. I hate your politics though, and this may lead to dislike or your politico’s. When i was a kid and we were in small town in the us sometiems we would have fun and give them a canadian two (upper new york will usually change your money at stores for you). Not only was it a two which looked wierd to them but two’s were red (they’ve been replaced by a coin). Some places had seen it before but it was real fun watching in others as they tried to figure out if it was real money…it usually took a while for us to convince them it was legal currency in canada whether they wanted to exchange it or not. Marcie Marcie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t judge the people of a country by the actions of their politicians. And you can’t judge a beer by Budweiser or Miller. Deb R.

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You can’t judge the people of a country by the actions of their politicians.

Or by the posts of Canadian usenet posters. — Ann

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i imagine from what you are saying its a nice strong beer? does it even hit the 5% line (what our regular beers are lighte are usually 4-4.5 line about what your heavy beer hits. Marcie

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That would be written by someone who’s never tasted Arrogant Bastard Ale Whiteknucke I.P.A. Ruination Double I.P.A. …and the like Joe Parsons

Ooh, I’ll play… Hop Devil IPA Stone Cat ESB Anchor Steam To name just a few… Deb R.

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Most??? Says who? Jesus ? Caesar ? CHOOSE !

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Although a "Double I.P.A." refers to a particular style of ale, its character doesn’t come from its comparatively high alcohol content, but from the fact that it is highly hopped. The Official Beer of ASAD, Arrogant Bastard Ale, is actually a "strong ale," with about 7% alcohol by volume. Some excellent craft brews fall typically between 5% and 7%. Much higher than that, and you just can’t drink as much as you might like, because of the alcohol. Then there’s "barley wine," which comes in at around 10%-12& a.b.v.–a heady brew indeed, a quaff best suited for the company of good friends, where there will be no driving or operating of heavy machinery afterwards. Our friends to the north, to the best of my knowledge, have yet to equal the current generation of American craft brewers–but I’m always happy to sample their best to further my research. Joe Parsons

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That would be written by someone who’s never tasted Arrogant Bastard Ale Whiteknucke I.P.A. Ruination Double I.P.A. …and the like Joe Parsons Ooh, I’ll play… Hop Devil IPA Stone Cat ESB Anchor Steam

Feh. Anchor Steam, as much as I admire Fritz Maytag and the part he has played in the craft brewing movement, can’t hold a candle to the REAL craft brews. It pales in the company of the first two you mentioned, although Anchor’s Old Foghorn is a credible barley wine. For a truly, um…assertive brew, White Knuckle Double IPA, or Ruination Ale will change your ideas about how beer is s’posed to be. Joe Parsons To name just a few…

So many beers, so little time… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Deb R.

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Well we probably need readers like you on the ot thread about the war cause most of them are telling me about how legal the whole thing is…it may be legal the american system is strange but it is undemocratic…but then your system is even more undemocratic in many ways than our and there are only a few worse than canada. Marcie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Herein follows an apology to the american people….rick mercer may have Effective humor has a core of truth. I find no core of truth in any of the above except the hockey part. What about the beer part? That would be written by someone who’s never tasted Arrogant Bastard Ale Whiteknucke I.P.A. Ruination Double I.P.A. …and the like Joe Parsons i imagine from what you are saying its a nice strong beer? does it even hit the 5% line (what our regular beers are lighte are usually 4-4.5 line about what your heavy beer hits. Although a "Double I.P.A." refers to a particular style of ale, its character doesn’t come from its comparatively high alcohol content, but from the fact that it is highly hopped. The Official Beer of ASAD, Arrogant Bastard Ale, is actually a "strong ale," with about 7% alcohol by volume. Some excellent craft brews fall typically between 5% and 7%. Much higher than that, and you just can’t drink as much as you might like, because of the alcohol. Then there’s "barley wine," which comes in at around 10%-12& a.b.v.–a heady brew indeed, a quaff best suited for the company of good friends, where there will be no driving or operating of heavy machinery afterwards. Our friends to the north, to the best of my knowledge, have yet to equal the current generation of American craft brewers–but I’m always happy to sample their best to further my research. Joe Parsons

As i’ve said elsewhere i really don’t like beer myself but two mini-micro breweries that are well liked up here are sleemans (it comes in a clear bottle, its part of the marketting) which creates several different things (ales,pales all that crap i know nothing about, and moosehead (which i believe is from the maritimes…aslo produces a line up…i guess these are probably mini not micor breweries although lately they’ve been getting a lot larger (when i was introduced to sleemans when i was 15(14 years ago) it was considered rare good taste. Marcie I’m glad some of your beers have some alcohol in them…beer is nice but so i alcohol

Response:

Arrogant Bastard is 7.2%. I also like Old Rasputin (8.9%) and Old Guardian (9.4%) when I can get it (and don’t plan on doing anything the next day). Some American beers go as high as 20%. By the way, that is by volume–US law does not allow brewers to report alcohol content by weight. Some of these, by the way, are best served at cellar temperature, not chilled. Don’t assume that the nationally advertised beers are the only types produced in the US. There are microbreweries all over the place. Marcie

– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

I have a fondness for Anchor Steam, although it’s not my favorite. It was our own homebrewed version of the recipe that placed us (my SO and I) second in a competition a few years back–and we had so much fun in the process I also like the Smuttynose Brewery ales from New Hampshire. The Brown Dog ale with a hot cup of chowder is a nice combo… Deb R.

Response:

Our friends to the north, to the best of my knowledge, have yet to equal the current generation of American craft brewers–but I’m always happy to sample their best to further my research. Joe Parsons

Give the Unibroue Belgian style brews a try if you haven’t already… Deb R.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Feh. Anchor Steam, as much as I admire Fritz Maytag and the part he has played in the craft brewing movement, can’t hold a candle to the REAL craft brews. It pales in the company of the first two you mentioned, although Anchor’s Old Foghorn is a credible barley wine. For a truly, um…assertive brew, White Knuckle Double IPA, or Ruination Ale will change your ideas about how beer is s’posed to be. Joe Parsons So many beers, so little time… I have a fondness for Anchor Steam, although it’s not my favorite. It was our own homebrewed version of the recipe that placed us (my SO and I) second in a competition a few years back–and we had so much fun in the process

You’re a homebrewer! I KNEW there was a reason I like you! :) Joe Parsons – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I also like the Smuttynose Brewery ales from New Hampshire. The Brown Dog ale with a hot cup of chowder is a nice combo… Deb R.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Herein follows an apology to the american people….rick mercer may have Effective humor has a core of truth. I find no core of truth in any of the above except the hockey part. What about the beer part? That would be written by someone who’s never tasted Arrogant Bastard Ale Whiteknucke I.P.A. Ruination Double I.P.A. …and the like Joe Parsons i imagine from what you are saying its a nice strong beer? does it even hit the 5% line (what our regular beers are lighte are usually 4-4.5 line about what your heavy beer hits. Arrogant Bastard is 7.2%. I also like Old Rasputin (8.9%) and Old Guardian (9.4%) when I can get it (and don’t plan on doing anything the next day). Some American beers go as high as 20%. By the way, that is by volume–US law does not allow brewers to report alcohol content by weight. Some of these, by the way, are best served at cellar temperature, not chilled. Don’t assume that the nationally advertised beers are the only types produced in the US. There are microbreweries all over the place. Marcie

I was well aware of micro breweries they are currently doing quite well here….i didn’t think specifically about you having them but i figured you must. I’ve tried several types of american beer and they were all terrible, sounds like maybe someone is improving things (although i still can’t really drink more htan one). Interestingly some of your beers have more alcohol than you can have legally in candian beer (i believe the highest is 7.1% Marcie

Response:

I feel friendly but….

admin — Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I am hurting so much that I do not have what it takes to socialize. Not even online. If we were together you wouldn’t find me good company right now. The pain overwhelms all remaining feelings. Sleeping is not helping much. I mean, it doesn’t go away. All I do is to play with my operating systems, like a constant way of rewarding myself. But I get sooooo tired….. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich?

Response:

Oh, you’re so cute when you’re cranky like this! [gives Teil a big hug and leaves him be]

Cute? Do you mean you’d hug me if you had me in front of you? Anytime you want me to play your teddy bear, just let me know. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich?

Response:

Oh, you’re so cute when you’re cranky like this! [gives Teil a big hug and leaves him be] Cute? Do you mean you’d hug me if you had me in front of you? Anytime you want me to play your teddy bear, just let me know.

Yea, I’d hug you, why wouldn’t I? http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

Oh, you’re so cute when you’re cranky like this! [gives Teil a big hug and leaves him be]

http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

D — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, you’re so cute when you’re cranky like this! [gives Teil a big hug and leaves him be] Cute? Do you mean you’d hug me if you had me in front of you? Anytime you want me to play your teddy bear, just let me know. Yea, I’d hug you, why wouldn’t I? D

I’m glad it put a smile on you face http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

alt.support.depression: I am hurting so much that I do not have what it takes to socialize. Not even online.

snip OK .. just wave now and again so that we don’t worry, OK? I hope this mood passes quickly. (I think PC operating systems should all carry a health warning "danger; trying to understand this product will drive you nuts") — — Whiskers

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – alt.support.depression: snip The trick was to be able to have some sleep. I have now and feel much better. Thanks. Sleep is good (mostly). (I think PC operating systems should all carry a health warning "danger; trying to understand this product will drive you nuts") Yea, right, you understand me better than my shrink. Trying to figure up what to do with packets, dialers, trying to find old software, trying to figure up who Linux work, uff. One pays heavily for having so much fun, huh? I take my OSs one at a time; even so, sometimes I think all I’m good for is playing Solitaire (which is called Klondike by everyone except Microsoft). I hope you aren’t going to start playing with OS/2 and CP/M any time soon )

I’ve got an old Xerox CP/M PC I can ship down there. Has a 5 or 6 meg HD, 8" floppy drive and a decent letter quality printer. Fully CP/M loaded, with plenty of DSDD diskettes! Tracy Barber

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As a matter of fact I was thinking of that.

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alt.support.depression: snip The trick was to be able to have some sleep. I have now and feel much better. Thanks.

Sleep is good (mostly). (I think PC operating systems should all carry a health warning "danger; trying to understand this product will drive you nuts") Yea, right, you understand me better than my shrink. Trying to figure up what to do with packets, dialers, trying to find old software, trying to figure up who Linux work, uff. One pays heavily for having so much fun, huh?

I take my OSs one at a time; even so, sometimes I think all I’m good for is playing Solitaire (which is called Klondike by everyone except Microsoft). I hope you aren’t going to start playing with OS/2 and CP/M any time soon ) — — Whiskers

Response:

I am hurting so much that I do not have what it takes to socialize. Not even online. If we were together you wouldn’t find me good company right now. The pain overwhelms all remaining feelings. Sleeping is not helping much. I mean, it doesn’t go away. All I do is to play with my operating systems, like a constant way of rewarding myself. But I get sooooo tired….. <~Teilhard<~ i am by nature a misanthrope but sometimes i get the urge to socialize but it always involves people. i don’t do people well.

Funny. I always tend to generalize. I am tempted to say that we all depressives are misanthropes in a great degree. But my ex was a depressive and did great with people. Not only that, people loved her, people liked her, and her company was always sought. I am doing well in keeping my brain to physics, At least here I know that whenever you release an apple it will fall, it never fails. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – alt.support.depression: I am hurting so much that I do not have what it takes to socialize. Not even online. snip OK .. just wave now and again so that we don’t worry, OK? Hey, Whiskers, I’ve always said you are quite a good pal. I hope this mood passes quickly. The trick was to be able to have some sleep. I have now and feel much better. Thanks. (I think PC operating systems should all carry a health warning "danger; trying to understand this product will drive you nuts") Yea, right, you understand me better than my shrink. Trying to figure up what to do with packets, dialers, trying to find old software, trying to figure up who Linux work, uff. One pays heavily for having so much fun, huh? What the heck are you trying to do! Combine Linux, WFW 3.1 and some wierd MExican PC? :^) This weird Mexican PC even gets your messages.

Yes, but what are you trying to do? Tracy Barber

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This weird Mexican PC even gets your messages. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich?

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What the heck are you trying to do! Combine Linux, WFW 3.1 and some wierd MExican PC? :^) Tracy Barber

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alt.support.depression: I am hurting so much that I do not have what it takes to socialize. Not even online. snip OK .. just wave now and again so that we don’t worry, OK?

Hey, Whiskers, I’ve always said you are quite a good pal. I hope this mood passes quickly.

The trick was to be able to have some sleep. I have now and feel much better. Thanks. (I think PC operating systems should all carry a health warning "danger; trying to understand this product will drive you nuts")

Yea, right, you understand me better than my shrink. Trying to figure up what to do with packets, dialers, trying to find old software, trying to figure up who Linux work, uff. One pays heavily for having so much fun, huh? — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich?

Response:

alt.support.depression: snip I hope you aren’t going to start playing with OS/2 and CP/M any time soon ) As a matter of fact I was thinking of that.

I suspected as much. Is this some strange sort of masochism? Old ‘word processing machines’ running CP/M sometimes appear in the pawn-brokers and second-hand shops around here; the "Amstrad" ones are in fact fully fledged programmable computers. — — Whiskers

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alt.support.depression: snip I would take it any time. I have some of the earlier mechanical calculators there were. I love old devices that work.

I have a small abacus, a stylus-operated mechanical adding machine, and a couple of slide-rules. When I started work, they were cutting- edge office technology (especially the cylindrical slide-rule). The firm I worked for had *two* mechanical adding machines with electric motors, to save having to wind the handle manually – what luxury! Those machines were shared by nearly 100 people (and they worked in old pre-metric British currency – 12 pence in a shilling, 20 shillings in a pound – which modern machines have great difficulty with). Many calculations were done with the help of ‘ready reckoner’ books, mathematical tables, and paper and pencil. You young people don’t know you’re born ) — — Whiskers

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am hurting so much that I do not have what it takes to socialize. Not even online. If we were together you wouldn’t find me good company right now. The pain overwhelms all remaining feelings. Sleeping is not helping much. I mean, it doesn’t go away. All I do is to play with my operating systems, like a constant way of rewarding myself. But I get sooooo tired….. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich? Olla, Teil. Estar

Medicine (sp: alcohol)

admin — Sat, 25 Jan 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

One thing I want to do is visit all the world’s great breweries, and taste the real stuff where it is made. If I start in Germany, though, I’ll probably stay there the rest of my life.

Yes, Munich alone has enough breweries to keep you occupied for a long time. I’ve been told that at one time, every hospital patient in Ireland was given a pint of Guinness to drink each day. Apparently it’s jam-packed with Vitamin B complex, adds fluid to the body, and contains food values because of the yeast. In moderation, beer is good for you. The tricky bit is the "moderation" part.

And the better the beer tastes, the more tricky the "moderation" part gets!

Response:

writes I’ve had a couple of beers, and I’m beginning to feel better. I’m having another one now. It’s amazing what you can create by using only barley malt, hops, yeast and water (the only ingredients allowed by the German "Reinheitsgebot")! That’s what makes good beer anywhere. If it has more, I won’t drink it. Actually, I daren’t – I know that’s okay with my MAOI, but who knows about the additives. I can’t even drink wheat beer, which is made to similar standards but with wheat malt rather than barley – I know that affects me.

I hadn’t thought about that benefit of only drinking beer brewed in accordance with the Reinheitsgebot. I can manage a strong beer (or a glass or two of wine – I’m getting in training for a hoped-for trip to Italy) but never two days running. I felt like one last night but went catatonic instead. The beer would have been more fun, and probably stopped it happening, but I didn’t make up my mind in time!

Perhaps you should switch to "Bud Light" (aka dishwater) . You could drink a barrel of it a day (if you didn’t have to know what additives are in it).

Response:

That’s what makes good beer anywhere. If it has more, I won’t drink it. Actually, I daren’t – I know that’s okay with my MAOI, but who knows about the additives. I can’t even drink wheat beer, which is made to similar standards but with wheat malt rather than barley – I know that affects me. Don’t worry, on weekdays I don’t drink more than one beer a day (in the evening). I’m aware of the risks of alcohol.

I can manage a strong beer (or a glass or two of wine – I’m getting in training for a hoped-for trip to Italy) but never two days running. I felt like one last night but went catatonic instead. The beer would have been more fun, and probably stopped it happening, but I didn’t make up my mind in time! — The opinions given above may be mine. They might also just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

Response:

I’ve had a couple of beers, and I’m beginning to feel better. I’m having another one now. It’s amazing what you can create by using only barley malt, hops, yeast and water (the only ingredients allowed by the German "Reinheitsgebot")! Don’t worry, on weekdays I don’t drink more than one beer a day (in the evening). I’m aware of the risks of alcohol. — Marty

Response:

Doctrinal Changes: Money

admin — Sat, 21 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not every Jewish banker was a ‘mensch’. And some others undoubtedly were fair, with the constraints of their business model, as it’s called today. Hitler wouldn’t have cared. Hitler, remember, was a thug, like a mafia thug, like any gangster. He was all opportunism. His Final Solution was insane, but just as his mass murder of the infirmed and institutionalized, ** terminating the criminally insane is not without public benefit. Well, but it would be a perversion even of German criminal justice at the time. But my reference, of course, was to the sort of thing suggested in the famous, and somewhat panned, film – The Nuremburg Trials. I think Montgomery Cliff got an award for playing a victim of such, though his character wasn’t killed – it’s true. But the Nazis were quick to kill the infirmed. ** At the time, there was a food shortage. The infirm, the criminally insane, and the severely retarded were classed as "food wasters". I believe the term was – useless eater. And the ‘Nazi miracle’ was applauded worldwide as they were butchering the innocents. People had food to eat. But it’s beside the point, just as it would have been to the killers, as well. One can only imagine the calculating, coldly routine, and ruthless killers to whom they were handed over. Eugenics had to triumph. It was the eugenics of the early abortion industry; a fact the partisans of that industry have zealously tried to cover up. ** medical abortions were available during the reign of Gregory XIII /Ugo Buoncompagni., the pope (1572-1585) who established many Catholic universities and seminaries and sponsored the adoption of the Gregorian calendar (1582). What’s your source for that? Or is this just some more of your own peculiar sense of humor?

** the info on Ugo is history. The bit on the invention of the Yugo is pure taurine feces. Ugo Buoncompagni is also credited as the first pope to determine thar ensoulment takes placde on the 40th day of gestation, and that a maternally-consentual abortion which takes place prior to ensoulment is not murder. If you say so.

** it’s in various secular history books and in _Vicars of Christ_ by Peter De Rosa, S.J. Ugo Buoncompagni is also credited with sketching an affordable self-propelled conveyance that later became known as the Yugo. The Yugo, huh?

** an c. $5,000 automobile produced many moons ago in Yugoslavia. Some Yugo owners preferred to carry a repair manual, a folding-bicycle, food and water for a couple of days, a sleeping bag, and a tool-kit – just in case. Yugos that run are now quite rare. …

– Rich Measures, 805-386-3734, www.vcnet.com/measures ^^ is a spam trap in adr

Response:

Not every Jewish banker was a ‘mensch’. And some others undoubtedly were fair, with the constraints of their business model, as it’s called today. Hitler wouldn’t have cared. Hitler, remember, was a thug, like a mafia thug, like any gangster. He was all opportunism. His Final Solution was insane, but just as his mass murder of the infirmed and institutionalized, ** terminating the criminally insane is not without public benefit.

Well, but it would be a perversion even of German criminal justice at the time. But my reference, of course, was to the sort of thing suggested in the famous, and somewhat panned, film – The Nuremburg Trials. I think Montgomery Cliff got an award for playing a victim of such, though his character wasn’t killed – it’s true. But the Nazis were quick to kill the infirmed. One can only imagine the calculating, coldly routine, and ruthless killers to whom they were handed over. Eugenics had to triumph. It was the eugenics of the early abortion industry; a fact the partisans of that industry have zealously tried to cover up. Jerry Can, the flying wing, the autoban

Well, if you’re not kidding, here, of course the autoban was built to transport military columns and supplies. But – yes – that was probably offered seriously as a compliment to the Nazis, even at the time. That is – hey, they built the autoban. Peace. * When one finds nothing more to say to God, * but just knows He is there — * that, in itself, is the best of prayers. [Fr. John Vianney, priest of Ars township, France, 1859]

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unoficially? ** Even though currencies don’t have a specified gold equivalent, they have a floating value. If dollars were tied to gold then milk would cost more when the gold price went up and down when the gold price went down. This doesn’t happen. ** Milk cost c. $ 4.50/320 = 0.01406 oz of gold per gallon today at Costco. One gallon of gas cost $ 1.29.9/320 = 0.00405 oz of gold per gallon. The fact that both can be bought by the dollar does not peg the value of the dollar to the item. Either or both can vary widly without the value of the dollar being affected. The Dollar (the benchmark currency for the world) is not tied to a comodity. That fact is not changed. When a currency is backed you can take it to the bank and exchange it for a specified amount of the backing comodity. See silver notes in that regard. This is no longer the case as the entire world has noticed. ** I noticed that when the dollar weas backed by silver, buttermilk was c. 41-cents per half-gallon. Today, it’s 3-bucks.

Weather it’s been a good or bad change can be debated. Also inflation was present in a commodity based currency also. But at least you now recognize that the dollar is not a hard currency.

Response:

** At the time, there was a food shortage. The infirm, the criminally insane, and the severely retarded were classed as "food wasters". One can only imagine the calculating, coldly routine, and ruthless killers to whom they were handed over. Eugenics had to triumph. It was the eugenics of the early abortion industry; a fact the partisans of that industry have zealously tried to cover up.

** medical abortions were available during the reign of Gregory XIII /Ugo Buoncompagni., the pope (1572-1585) who established many Catholic universities and seminaries and sponsored the adoption of the Gregorian calendar (1582). Ugo Buoncompagni is also credited as the first pope to determine thar ensoulment takes placde on the 40th day of gestation, and that a maternally-consentual abortion which takes place prior to ensoulment is not murder. Ugo Buoncompagni is also credited with sketching an affordable self-propelled conveyance that later became known as the Yugo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry Can, the flying wing, the autoban Well, if you’re not kidding, here, of course the autoban was built to transport military columns and supplies. But – yes – that was probably offered seriously as a compliment to the Nazis, even at the time. That is – hey, they built the autoban. Peace. * When one finds nothing more to say to God, * but just knows He is there — * that, in itself, is the best of prayers. [Fr. John Vianney, priest of Ars township, France, 1859]

– Rich Measures, 805-386-3734, www.vcnet.com/measures ^^ is a spam trap in adr

Response:

The fact that both can be bought by the dollar does not peg the value of the dollar to the item. Either or both can vary widly without the value of the dollar being affected. The Dollar (the benchmark currency for the world) is not tied to a comodity. That fact is not changed. When a currency is backed you can take it to the bank and exchange it for a specified amount of the backing comodity. See silver notes in that regard. This is no longer the case as the entire world has noticed.

Response:

** I noticed that when the dollar weas backed by silver, buttermilk was c. 41-cents per half-gallon. Today, it’s 3-bucks. — Rich Measures, 805-386-3734, www.vcnet.com/measures ^^ is a spam trap in adr

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Dubbel yeast

admin — Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

This only answers your link question: http://members.cox.net/bis9170-1/Yeast_Sources.pdf – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, given a choice of WLP500 and WLP530, which would you choose for a dubbel and why? Oh, and can you give me the link to the yeast site that lists what commercial breweries these are supposed to be from? I thought I had that in my favorites, only to discover my link doesn’t work any more. Thanks Brian

Response:

Brian, I have used the abbey ale and trappist ale (dont know the numbers). I think the abbey ale is closer in final result to white labs 1214 but I may be wrong. The Trappist is a bird of another colour, I used it and maybe my recipe was too complicated, but the beer was all over the place. I think it produces a lot more different flavours. my not so scientific opinion john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, given a choice of WLP500 and WLP530, which would you choose for a dubbel and why? Oh, and can you give me the link to the yeast site that lists what commercial breweries these are supposed to be from? I thought I had that in my favorites, only to discover my link doesn’t work any more. Thanks Brian

Response:

So, given a choice of WLP500 and WLP530, which would you choose for a dubbel and why? Oh, and can you give me the link to the yeast site that lists what commercial breweries these are supposed to be from? I thought I had that in my favorites, only to discover my link doesn’t work any more.

I think either would be fine. We used the 530 in our NHD big brew http://hbd.org/carboy/nhd.htm and it did throw off a little bananna, but that subsided over time. I’d probably suggest trying the 500 if that is something you might not desire even though it basically went away… Cheers, Mike

Response:

Amber Brewery

admin — Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Amber Brewery ( family brewery ) – located 15 km from Gdansk ( Danzig ) in Pomorze ( Pommern ) , N part of Poland. – built in 1995 – actual sales: 150 000 hectolitres per annum – high quality & old tradition ( till 1918 in Gda

Bottling wheat beer question

admin — Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

owch

Response:

Yes, I guess by 2am one’s taste buds are well and truly asleep, and wheat beer can be safely consumed Tom

You’re trolling for an English food joke, pal. http://www.littletinywit.com/Column_12142002.html – Breakfast as a Mind-Altering Drug http://www.littletinywit.com/Column_12112002.html – Steve Feels Pretty Brevity is the soul of trolling.

Response:

You’re trolling for an English food joke, pal.

So long as it’s not about ’spotted dick’ :) Anyway, you don’t want the food to outshine the beer. — Andy Davison

Response:

You’re trolling for an English food joke, pal. So long as it’s not about ’spotted dick’ :)

Well, there went that idea. http://www.littletinywit.com/Column_12142002.html – Breakfast as a Mind-Altering Drug http://www.littletinywit.com/Column_12112002.html – Steve Feels Pretty Brevity is the soul of trolling.

Response:

Hi Folks I am brewing up 5 gallons of wheat beer. As this is supposed to have yeast in the bottle I thought I would try bottling it before the end of fermentation – rather tyhan adding more sugar at the end. At what SG should I start considering this. Thanks Paul

Response:

I don’t think you can predict exactly what your final SG will be.. you’d be guessing. Odds are you’ll end up with undercarbonation or bottle bombs. I think it is safer to let fementation complete then add a known amount of priming sugar. DB

Response:

That is dicey business. Some breweries bottle condition using a process called Krausening, where fermenting beer is added to the fermented beer and bottled to create carbonation. If you were using a keg, you could probably pull it off without worries, but in bottles you are most likely asking for trouble. Either the bottles will be undercarbonated, or overcarbonated. Cheers, Mike

Response:

Bad idea. Chances are, you’ll either end up with flat beer or you’ll have bottle bombs. It’s very difficult to predict what your final gravity will be. If you used a wheat beer yeast, that’s all you need to do. Most of those strains tend to stay suspended in the beer longer rather than settle out. That’s how you get the cloudy beer, not by bottling before fermentation is done. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

The reason one adds priming sugar is because there *is* yeast in the bottle — that’s how the priming sugar is fermented and the beer is carbonated in the bottle. Your wheat beer, bottle-primed like usual, will have the yeast sediment you’re looking for. Bottle krausening like you’re suggesting is a very dicey business — you’d have to know your recipe well and be confident you can predict its final gravity to within a point or so. ben

Response:

… If you used a wheat beer yeast, that’s all you need to do. Most of those strains tend to stay suspended in the beer longer rather than settle out. That’s how you get the cloudy beer, not by bottling before fermentation is done.

Not convinced that the cloud in wheatbeer is yeast. 1) Commercial types are cloudy, even on draught & in cans, and are consistent down the keg. 2) Wheatbeers are *very* cloudy, that would be a heck of a lot of yeast, even for a naturally conditioned style. And they (e.g. Hoegaarden) do not taste yeasty. 3) Commercial ones in bottles don’t clear. Some form a sediment e.g. H~ Speciale or Grand Cru, but the body is still cloudy.

Response:

Wheat beers have a large component of wheat in them, typically 40% or higher. The high level of protein contributes the haze that you see in a Weizen. A hefeweizen , by definition, has yeast suspended in the beer. The amount is up to the brewer. Thus, it will be cloudy for two reasons. Burp, -Dan — Replace "nospam" with msn to send me email.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … If you used a wheat beer yeast, that’s all you need to do. Most of those strains tend to stay suspended in the beer longer rather than settle out. That’s how you get the cloudy beer, not by bottling before fermentation is done. Not convinced that the cloud in wheatbeer is yeast. 1) Commercial types are cloudy, even on draught & in cans, and are consistent down the keg. 2) Wheatbeers are *very* cloudy, that would be a heck of a lot of yeast, even for a naturally conditioned style. And they (e.g. Hoegaarden) do not taste yeasty. 3) Commercial ones in bottles don’t clear. Some form a sediment e.g. H~ Speciale or Grand Cru, but the body is still cloudy.

Response:

Thanks for all the advice folks, I regard wheat beer as the uiltimate in beers. I lived in germany for 7 years and a hefe weizen with a dash of lemon drank sitting outside on the corner of a Berlin street cafe at 2 in the morning is the best thing ever. Happy days indeed. Paul

Response:

Yes, I guess by 2am one’s taste buds are well and truly asleep, and wheat beer can be safely consumed Tom

Response:

Wheat beers have a large component of wheat in them, typically 40% or higher. The high level of protein contributes the haze that you see in a Weizen.

That fits with the often suggested tip of adding a little wheat for better head retention. A hefeweizen , by definition, has yeast suspended in the beer. The amount is up to the brewer.

True, but I spoke of Hoegaarden which is not a hefeweizen, because it’s Belgian, not German. The Kristall versions aren’t as good, IMHO. The premium Hoegarden ones I mentioned that *do* have yeast are however a bit more like the Boche ones than their ordinary stablemate; odd, I’d never made that connection before. Thus, it will be cloudy for two reasons.

I had a look in the supermarket yesterday and there is a sediment in the Speciale & Grand Cru, both of which are labelled as being "op Gist", none in the regular, so I still reckon most of the yeast does settle, assuming you allow it to. Wait a mo, I’m off to check the empties … The "Speciale" suggests to pour half, then swirl the bottle to dislodge the yeast. I still reckon the cloud is mainly something else – probably protein as you mentioned – not yeast.

Response:

Yes, Crystal Weisse generally is filtered. I’m not familiar with that particular brand of CW. Burp, -Dan — Replace nospam with msn to email me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wheat beers have a large component of wheat in them, typically 40% or higher. The high level of protein contributes the haze that you see in a Weizen. A hefeweizen , by definition, has yeast suspended in the beer. The amount is up to the brewer. Thus, it will be cloudy for two reasons. Doesn’t Franziskaner have a "Crystal" Weisse, that’s filtered but otherwise the same as their regular? Of course, Franziskaner also has a "Dark White" beer (Dunkel Weisse). ben

Response:

Doesn’t Franziskaner have a "Crystal" Weisse, that’s filtered but otherwise the same as their regular? Of course, Franziskaner also has a "Dark White" beer (Dunkel Weisse). ben

Response:

: Doesn’t Franziskaner have a "Crystal" Weisse, that’s filtered but : otherwise the same as their regular? I’m not sure of that brewery but Krystall Weizen is a commercial style. Tucher make one. — Bill