Brewing Master

Question:

I know that glass carboys are probably the best way to go.  Buckets are lighter and easier to handle but you cannot see in them.  How about those 5 gallon plastic bottles for the water coolers?  Would that work good as a carboy?  Or is there some kind of difference in the plastic?  I know that they talk about foodgrade plastic, so I am not sure if that would be a problem.. Mike

Response:

I know that glass carboys are probably the best way to go.  Buckets are lighter and easier to handle but you cannot see in them.  How about those 5 gallon plastic bottles for the water coolers?  Would that work good as a carboy?  Or is there some kind of difference in the plastic?  I know that they talk about foodgrade plastic, so I am not sure if that would be a problem.. Mike

Mike, We talked about this a few weeks ago, and I think the general consensus was that the plastic water bottles were good for primary but *maybe* not secondary.  The good stuff to see happens during primary anyhow Drew — *   I use this account for posting only.   * *  To e-mail me please use this address:   * *     "atroup" |at| "gmu" |dot| "edu"      *

Response:

I will be trying a primary fermentation in a plastic water jug (6 gallons) this weekend. I’ll let you know how it turns out… Marc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that glass carboys are probably the best way to go.  Buckets are lighter and easier to handle but you cannot see in them.  How about those 5 gallon plastic bottles for the water coolers?  Would that work good as a carboy?  Or is there some kind of difference in the plastic?  I know that they talk about foodgrade plastic, so I am not sure if that would be a problem.. Mike Mike, We talked about this a few weeks ago, and I think the general consensus was that the plastic water bottles were good for primary but *maybe* not secondary.  The good stuff to see happens during primary anyhow Drew — *   I use this account for posting only.   * *  To e-mail me please use this address:   * *     "atroup" |at| "gmu" |dot| "edu"      *

– << << << << < << << << << << << << << << << << << << And the children in the fields all sowing seed and chaffing wheat Oh, to be Prince Caspian with stumps instead of feet.

Response:

I still have never seen any data to suggest that fermenting , primary or secondary, in pastic containers actually results in any oxidation. Just lots of prognostication which is common among homebrewers. The closest thing I have seen to real data is the fact that the major breweries would not package in plastic until recently where they use multilayer plastic to minimize O2 permeation. I will note that the polycarbonate (234) used for the plastic carboys is about twice the permeation of the HDPE (110) used in plastic buckets. Also, the plastic carboys have thinner walls than the buckets. So if you believe the oxidation happens in a short time theory, then I’d stick to buckets as their O2 permeation will be much lower than the plastic carboys. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that glass carboys are probably the best way to go.  Buckets are lighter and easier to handle but you cannot see in them.  How about those 5 gallon plastic bottles for the water coolers?  Would that work good as a carboy? Or is there some kind of difference in the plastic?  I know that they talk about foodgrade plastic, so I am not sure if that would be a problem.. Mike

Response:

I know that glass carboys are probably the best way to go.  Buckets are lighter and easier to handle but you cannot see in them.  How about those 5 gallon plastic bottles for the water coolers?  Would that work good as a carboy?  Or is there some kind of difference in the plastic?  I know that they talk about foodgrade plastic, so I am not sure if that would be a problem..

I have used the 5 gallon plastic water bottle/carboy’s and had no problem with oxidation. I also talked to some people who are paid to know about these things, and they told me that the plastic water bottles are approx. 15 mils thick, so oxygen diffusion is not going to be a problem while fermenting beer, in a primary or secondary. If they were 1-2 mils thick oxygen diffusion MIGHT be a problem, but even then not in the range of 2-3 weeks. So, as far as oxygen diffusion is concerned, there is no need to give it a second thought. But, scratches on the inside of the bottles can be a problem, as far as sanitizing goes. So, try to get the newest, least scratched bottles you can find, and you should have no problems at all. —

Response:

: I will note that the polycarbonate (234) used for the plastic carboys is : about twice the permeation of the HDPE (110) used in plastic buckets. Also, : the plastic carboys have thinner walls than the buckets. So if you believe : the oxidation happens in a short time theory, then I’d stick to buckets as : their O2 permeation will be much lower than the plastic carboys. Is this the case for the plastic carboys that are designed for fermenting in? It appears to me that the plastic is at least as thick as the buckets. fwiw, I use a couple of plastic carboys and I’ve never encountered any problems with oxidation or premature staling. In fact, I’m so doubtful that oxydation through the walls of these things is a problem that I’m lagering in them right now. We’ll see when I finish that up in another couple of weeks or so. — Bill

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I have never used plastic water bottles but, on another thread there was a lengthy discussion about these.  Bottom line, its OK to use.  If you store in them for a long time, there may be some O2 leakage but it should not matter in a 2-3 week secondary. ERich

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that glass carboys are probably the best way to go.  Buckets are lighter and easier to handle but you cannot see in them.  How about those 5 gallon plastic bottles for the water coolers?  Would that work good as a carboy? Or is there some kind of difference in the plastic?  I know that they talk about foodgrade plastic, so I am not sure if that would be a problem.. Mike

Response:

Brewed into the plastic water bottle (18.9 L) over the weekend.  Although I’m a rookie…I think they are the cat’s ass.  Big breweries would dream of paying 10 bucks for a fermenter then bringing it back for a full refund when demand goes down! I am in the process of turning one into a Unitank (not just as easy as flipping it upside down.) Also made a lauter tun out of one if anyone is interested – let me know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that glass carboys are probably the best way to go.  Buckets are lighter and easier to handle but you cannot see in them.  How about those 5 gallon plastic bottles for the water coolers?  Would that work good as a carboy? Or is there some kind of difference in the plastic?  I know that they talk about foodgrade plastic, so I am not sure if that would be a problem.. Mike

Response:

It is only my estimation that the plastic carboys are thinner than the plastic bucket. I don’t have a mic or calipers or a plastic carboy to cut open to do any measurements. If some one could provide that data, I would appreciate it. Being in the plastics industry, I feel like the gate keeper for data on the plastic vs. glass debate. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I will note that the polycarbonate (234) used for the plastic carboys is : about twice the permeation of the HDPE (110) used in plastic buckets. Also, : the plastic carboys have thinner walls than the buckets. So if you believe : the oxidation happens in a short time theory, then I’d stick to buckets as : their O2 permeation will be much lower than the plastic carboys. Is this the case for the plastic carboys that are designed for fermenting in? It appears to me that the plastic is at least as thick as the buckets. fwiw, I use a couple of plastic carboys and I’ve never encountered any problems with oxidation or premature staling. In fact, I’m so doubtful that oxydation through the walls of these things is a problem that I’m lagering in them right now. We’ll see when I finish that up in another couple of weeks or so. — Bill

Response:

: It is only my estimation that the plastic carboys are thinner than the : plastic bucket. I don’t have a mic or calipers or a plastic carboy to cut : open to do any measurements. If some one could provide that data, I would : appreciate it. Being in the plastics industry, I feel like the gate keeper : for data on the plastic vs. glass debate. Unfortunately, I have no data, just eyeball estimates. But, the two plastic carboys that I have are made from pretty thick plastic. It’s definitely thicker than the plastic water bottles, and looks to be as thick or thicker than my primary fermenters. In any case, I’ve been happy with them. I have four glass carboys as well, but I don’t hesitate to use the plastic. — Bill

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