Brewing Master

Question:

    compuserve avsig libraries

*** Does anybody know of a WWW or FTP site where one can get at stuff from these "compuserve avsig libraries"?  Most of us probably don’t have Compuserv access.  It sounds like there’s some neat stuff there…                        - Jerry Kaidor

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I got a note from a Doug Ranz at IBM about a remarkably full-function flight planning spreadsheet.  If anyone else is interested, you can

I downloaded this and it may be wonderful but I’m buggered if I can get it to do anything! David.

Response:

I got a note from a Doug Ranz at IBM about a remarkably full-function flight planning spreadsheet.  If anyone else is interested, you can I downloaded this and it may be wonderful but I’m buggered if I can get it to do anything! David.

Seems like I can’t find the reference to the original site.  Got a URL to get to the spreadsheet?   John Rodkey — Director of Academic Computing, Westmont College, Santa Barbara, CA, USA

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I got a note from a Doug Ranz at IBM about a remarkably full-function flight planning spreadsheet.  If anyone else is interested, you can I downloaded this and it may be wonderful but I’m buggered if I can get it to do anything! David. Seems like I can’t find the reference to the original site.  Got a URL to get to the spreadsheet?  

I got the following; the www.simtel.net site worked for me.      ftp://ftp.cc.gatech.edu/pub/people/pas/air/e6b      http://www.simtel.net/simtel.net/win3/engin-pre.html      compuserve avsig libraries Once I figured out that the blue colored squares were for filling in, it started to make some sense. Blue skies, -Pat Dirks.

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     ftp://ftp.cc.gatech.edu/pub/people/pas/air/e6b      http://www.simtel.net/simtel.net/win3/engin-pre.html      compuserve avsig libraries

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Hi, I got a note from a Doug Ranz at IBM about a remarkably full-function flight planning spreadsheet.  If anyone else is interested, you can grab a      ftp://ftp.cc.gatech.edu/pub/people/pas/air/e6b      http://www.simtel.net/simtel.net/win3/engin-pre.html      compuserve avsig libraries The description is as follows: E6B v17 Flight Planning Aid for:       Microsoft Excel 5 (.XLS)  for Win 3.1, Win95 & Win/NT       Lotus 1-2-3 r5    (.WK4)  for Win 3.1 & Win95       Lotus 1-2-3 v2.1  (.WG2)  for OS2 v2.11 & OS2/Warp       Lotus 1-2-3 r2.1  (.WK1)  for MS-DOS (by special request only)       Airport database has entries for 22,000+ airports worldwide.       Reports if your Intel Pentium has the (widely reported) math flaw.       you enter:            - ICAO airport ID            - surface temp  (optional)            - winds aloft   (optional)            - aircraft performance profile       E6B v17 calcs:            - optimum enroute altitude for best speed (or economy)              with alt correct for whether east/west-bound and whether              ifr or vfr.            - great circle distance            - great circle mh (corrected using interpolated winds aloft)            - density altitude            - true airspeed            - climb profile (distance, time & gs)            - cruise profile (distance, time & gs)            - descent profile (distance, time & gs)            - leg time, fuel, gs & cost            - trip time, fuel, gs & cost            - sunrise/sunset            - wet/dry freezing levels            - airport runway, elev & ctaf info The author can’t contribute to netnews discussions but can be reached Blue Skies, -Patrick Penzias Dirks.

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Hi, I’ve just updated my home page, and have added an easy to use flight-planning spreadsheet that has the look and feel of a standard navigation log. Do check it out under "Planning", in my home page http://www.geocities.com/~srid/flying.html -Sridhar Visit my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/~srid/flying.html  !

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If that link didn’t work (there seems to be some problem), try the following http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/1090/flying.html -Sridhar Hi, I’ve just updated my home page, and have added an easy to use flight-planning spreadsheet that has the look and feel of a standard navigation log. Do check it out under "Planning", in my home page http://www.geocities.com/~srid/flying.html -Sridhar Visit my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/~srid/flying.html  !

– Visit my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/~srid/flying.html  !

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Looks OK Roger, but  how do I download it to my Excel?.  I can use it alright in explorer but cant save it to my own disk.  ( was I meant to be allowed to do that?) Explorer crashes in the process of trying. And I figured the column headed CRS is the magnetic track, but what do the letters  CRS stand for ( sorry if its obvious – I’m an Aussie and my American isnt as good as it should be). Eventually figured out the pressure height also, when I realised what the 29.92 was.   Cant help wondering whos got the job of  changing all the Cessna and Piper altimeter subsetting to mbars for us Aussies , or do they do that at the factory in the States? Dont know why we bother to be honest, if we can work in feet instead of meters we should be able to handle the inches of mercury. Regards Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got it!  Damn parentheses.  What a difference a ( ) makes. The corrected spreadsheet is at the original link: http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Flightplan.xls — Roger Long

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – other problems than anything else, is trying to get my parentheses in the right places. You should try writing a compiler <:-)) I have.  It’s really not that complicated.  Just a bunch of basic data structures. I’ve recently had the "opportunity" to work with the Scheme programming language. I’ve not heard of that, but I’ve been out of the business for over 5 years now. Lisp dialect.  Lots of Irritating Spurious Parentheses.  Been around much longer than 5 years. Post fix is, I believe the same as RPN and I’ve never successfully managed to use a calculator that used RPN. I remember doing planning for a solo cross-country, using my HP calculator to crunch the numbers for W&B.  My instructor’s eyes glazed over. Talk about a user-unfriendly language. Try straight C using pointers and dynamic memory allocation.  They call it a write only language for a reason. <:-)) Straight C lets you C is a friendly language.  It’s just picky about whom it calls its friends.

It’s Powerful, elegant, and relatively simple in its structure.  It’s relatively easy for one who has studied it to write some very powerful programs, but without thorough documentation I don’t think I’d ever call it friendly. <:-)) I’ve seen code that students turned in where it took more work to decipher than it did to write it.  Course I saw a few students who could write Pascal that way too and it’s almost a plain language when it comes to source code. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Morris

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other problems than anything else, is trying to get my parentheses in the right places. You should try writing a compiler <:-))

I have.  It’s really not that complicated.  Just a bunch of basic data structures. I’ve recently had the "opportunity" to work with the Scheme programming language. I’ve not heard of that, but I’ve been out of the business for over 5 years now.

Lisp dialect.  Lots of Irritating Spurious Parentheses.  Been around much longer than 5 years. Post fix is, I believe the same as RPN and I’ve never successfully managed to use a calculator that used RPN.

I remember doing planning for a solo cross-country, using my HP calculator to crunch the numbers for W&B.  My instructor’s eyes glazed over. Talk about a user-unfriendly language. Try straight C using pointers and dynamic memory allocation.  They call it a write only language for a reason. <:-)) Straight C lets you

C is a friendly language.  It’s just picky about whom it calls its friends. Morris

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 For me, one of the biggest pains in programming, and the cause of more bugs and other problems than anything else, is trying to get my parentheses in the right places. If you use a modern user friendly editor like "vi", you can just hit "%" and it will take you to the matching paren, so you can see if they match up correctly.

Actually any recent incarnation of Excel does that without having to ask.  You just have to watch what it’s telling you. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

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If you use a modern user friendly editor like "vi", you can just hit "%" and it will take you to the matching paren, so you can see if they match up correctly. Be careful, the only thing worse than the high wing-low wing debate is the vi-emacs debate.

Not to me…I don’t like either one of them.<:-)) and haven’t had to be concerned with them for over 5 years..er 6 years.  I retired during Osh, at Osh in 97…Took my last week of work on vacation…and they still owed me for something like 90 days of vacation(give or take a couple) We weren’t allowed to carry over more than 10 days from one year to the next, but they made exceptions for those of us who lived with the computers.  I only had one day off in my first two years back after college.  All those years after I went back to work I carried a pager even on vacation.  They even had me paged over the PA system at Oshkosh one year. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - awh (vi forever!)

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: Be careful, the only thing worse than the high wing-low wing debate is the : vi-emacs debate.

MacWrite forever, man! Peace! Rob

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: Be careful, the only thing worse than the high wing-low wing debate is the : vi-emacs debate. MacWrite forever, man! Peace! Rob

Troff rules.

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Got it!  Damn parentheses.  What a difference a ( ) makes.

I forget those every once in a while. <:-)), at least in spreadsheets.  For me, one of the biggest pains in programming, and the cause of more bugs and

There is so much math required to become a programmer, I’d think that using parentheses would become second nature.  Prefix, postfix, and infix. other problems than anything else, is trying to get my parentheses in the right places.

You should try writing a compiler <:-)) I’ve recently had the "opportunity" to work with the Scheme programming language.

I’ve not heard of that, but I’ve been out of the business for over 5 years now. What’s one of the key structural elements of its syntax? Parentheses!

Parenthesis is pretty important in most programming languages and in virtually all math that is done within the programs.  It sets the order in which operations are performed.  True the operators such as +, -, /, *, and ^ have their own precedence, but in the end they all bow to the parenthesis. In school we had a few exercises where we had to perform the same math using prefix, postfix, and infix.  Now that got *really* confusing.  I don’t think I could do all of them now. Actually that’s not true. I know I couldn’t do all of them now. <:-)) Post fix is, I believe the same as RPN and I’ve never successfully managed to use a calculator that used RPN. Talk about a user-unfriendly language.

Try straight C using pointers and dynamic memory allocation.  They call it a write only language for a reason. <:-)) Straight C lets you do virtually anything with almost no type checking. You can add an integer to an address, to a pointer, to a piece of text and it won’t complain.   More recent compilers let you turn on type checking, or more correctly they are set up for ANSI C and will allow you to turn the type checking off if you wish. Still…Write something in straight C without internal documentation and then go back six months later and try to follow what you wrote. It’s a relatively elegant language that lets you write very compact code, unlike the visual counterparts which are very easy to use, but generate "bloat code". Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rich Lemert

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Or ‘cat’.  The editor for those who don’t make mistakes Jeff… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : If you use a modern user friendly editor like "vi", you can just hit "%" : and it will take you to the matching paren, so you can see if they match : up correctly. : : Be careful, the only thing worse than the high wing-low wing debate is the : vi-emacs debate. : :  - awh : : (vi forever!) : Or vi vs. VMS’ edt debate, or unix vs. VMS. –Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)

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Yes, it is a big problem– that is, until you’re mind is sufficiently expanded that you look at software in a whole new way and the parenthesis "dissolve" into the background.  It’s almost a kind of a "magic-eye" sort of thing, IYSWIM.  Good luck, hope you eventually "get it"

Indentation is your friend.   Actually, this is related to an aviation topic: CRM.  Why do some pilots highlight their route on a chart?  Because this makes it far easier for the human eye to locate the route when first looking (back at) the chart.   Absent this, various forms of mental processing are required.  This takes time and effort. In programming, we’ve the same opportunity to do things in a way that reduces the need to "think" over trivia.  Indentation is one good example.   Whether you’re programming in a C derivative (in which case you must match braces), a LIST derivative (parens), a language with BEGINs and ENDs, or anything else, doing this "matching" involves work.  Proper indentation makes this much easier, as a lexical block is made visually "obvious".   It’s the equivilent of highlighting the route. Most modern editors will indent automatically, and even using colors or graphical markers to further enhance the display of the code.  Using one of these is like shifting to the use of a moving map GPS.         – Andrew

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Got it!  Damn parentheses.  What a difference a ( ) makes.

  For me, one of the biggest pains in programming, and the cause of more bugs and other problems than anything else, is trying to get my parentheses in the right places. I’ve recently had the "opportunity" to work with the Scheme programming language. What’s one of the key structural elements of its syntax? Parentheses! Talk about a user-unfriendly language. Rich Lemert

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 For me, one of the biggest pains in programming, and the cause of more bugs and other problems than anything else, is trying to get my parentheses in the right places.

If you use a modern user friendly editor like "vi", you can just hit "%" and it will take you to the matching paren, so you can see if they match up correctly. — "How do you feel about women’s rights?" "I like either side of them."         — Groucho Marx, 1890-1977

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Got it!  Damn parentheses.  What a difference a ( ) makes.   For me, one of the biggest pains in programming, and the cause of more bugs and other problems than anything else, is trying to get my parentheses in the right places. I’ve recently had the "opportunity" to work with the Scheme programming language. What’s one of the key structural elements of its syntax? Parentheses! Talk about a user-unfriendly language.

Yes, it is a big problem– that is, until you’re mind is sufficiently expanded that you look at software in a whole new way and the parenthesis "dissolve" into the background.  It’s almost a kind of a "magic-eye" sort of thing, IYSWIM.  Good luck, hope you eventually "get it" Cheers, John Clonts Temple, Texas

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If you use a modern user friendly editor like "vi", you can just hit "%" and it will take you to the matching paren, so you can see if they match up correctly.

Be careful, the only thing worse than the high wing-low wing debate is the vi-emacs debate.  - awh (vi forever!)

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: If you use a modern user friendly editor like "vi", you can just hit "%" : and it will take you to the matching paren, so you can see if they match : up correctly. : : Be careful, the only thing worse than the high wing-low wing debate is the : vi-emacs debate. : :  - awh : : (vi forever!) : Or vi vs. VMS’ edt debate, or unix vs. VMS. –Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)

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I like putting in the distance, course data, etc. well ahead of time and then plugging in the weather information just before I go.  Driving the Sporty’s E6B through it all is just too much work now that I’m no longer a student and don’t have to show my work to anyone.  This spreadsheet should make it easier.

     I’m not trying to throw cold water on your work but I guess I don’t see any advantage, Roger.  Are you going to lug a laptop into the airplane to work the spreadsheet?  You mentioned paper folded onto a clipboard. After you plug in the relevant info, how do you print it out — copy by pencil?      So, I get this picture…. bags are loaded, preflight is done, now it’s time to call WXBRIEF. Uh oh, the winds at cruise altitude are 65 degrees off the nose and blowing 22 knots.  Later on, just past midway on my cross-country, a check with flight watch reveals the winds have shifted around to 20 or so degrees off the nose and picked up 5 knots.      In either of the above cases, a few movements of my whiz-wheel will tell me: (1) the mag course to follow to correct for the cross-wind to hold track, (2) the headwind(or tailwind) component and its affect on my ground speed, and (3) the change in fuel consumption. By reverse logic, I can use the whiz-wheel to estimate unknown wind directions and velocities      I do my planning on the "Flight Planner" sheets provided by AOPA Air Safety Foundation. In addition to being handy for keeping all the information organized, it is a great memory tickler for getting all the information — a flight planning checklist, so to speak.      I saw a favorably impressive demonstration of an electronic gizmo, like Sporty’s E6B. If it weren’t for batteries and LCD screen, I’d probably have one. For now, I use the calculator functions of the KLN-89B in the panel to back up my whiz-wheel.     Do it the way it works best for you, Roger. What makes you warm and fuzzy makes flying the best. Regards, Casey

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Ah, I smell a philosophical difference.  Since I’m not flying over trackless wastes, have Loran, GPS, VOR’s, finger on the sectional, etc., the plan is just that, a plan.  Like a battle plan, it starts to degrade at first contact with reality. The purpose of the spreadsheet is to give me the best prediction of fuel burn, arrival times, and initial headings that can be generated a couple hours before leaving for the airport.  The probability that conditions will change significantly is fairly low.  Even lower is the probability that the conditions I encounter will exactly match the forecasts.   Although the plan is a valuable guide to the flight and rough reality check on in-flight calculations, it’s really more of a "Pick me up at the airport at ____" tool than a "where am I now" tool. If I get a final briefing and find out that the winds are say 10% stronger and have veered 30 degrees, I probably wouldn’t rework the whole thing but just make top of the head adjustments to the numbers.  Initial headings are just a convenience to help me settle down on the electric box’s "Direct to" pointer.  Similarly, if I start running ahead or behind of my times to waypoints, I’ll just project ahead a similar approximate correction. The spreadsheet is not a substitute for the Wiz Wheel or Electronic E6B.  If there is a significant change, say a 10 knot tailwind swinging around to a 25 knot headwind, I might sit down and rework the whole thing by hand with the blank sheets I carry in my flight bag.  More likely, in that case, I’ll be worried about the time, just make an overall correction, and interpolate the rest as I go along.  The plan, even though based on different wind assumptions, still makes those gut estimates easier.  Since I don’t have a $1000 headset or Oregon Aero seats, I don’t fly very deep into my fuel reserves anyway. I have yet to find a reason to fiddle with the E6B in flight.  There are too many other ways to get the same answers while keeping eyes outside the cockpit.  Set your heading without wind correction, pick a landmark on the horizon, then pick one closer.  Crab until they stay in line, then hold that course.  Fly 10% of the distance to a waypoint and time it, now you know your arrival ETA. The most important VFR flight instrument is still the sectional on the lap and the fingernail.  When the GPS blips off, or the panel goes dark, that’s what will get you down safely. — Roger Long

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There are still significant errors in ground speed.  I’m trying to figure out why. — Roger Long

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You might take a look at how Excel defaults its degrees. I believe you may have to convert to Radians or something, versus leaving everything in regular ol’ compass degrees. –Brent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are still significant errors in ground speed.  I’m trying to figure out why. — Roger Long

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Got it!  Damn parentheses.  What a difference a ( ) makes. The corrected spreadsheet is at the original link: http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Flightplan.xls — Roger Long

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Ah, I smell a philosophical difference.  Since I’m not flying over trackless wastes, have Loran, GPS, VOR’s, finger on the sectional, etc., the plan is just that, a plan.  Like a battle plan, it starts to degrade at first contact with reality. The purpose of the spreadsheet is to give me the best prediction of fuel burn, arrival times, and initial headings that can be generated a couple hours before leaving for the airport.  The probability that conditions will change significantly is fairly low.  Even lower is the probability that

the . .      We are on the same page, so to speak, even with minor philosophical differences.  I guess I’m seeing you doing the reinventing/replowing/(other metaphors) thing.  What’s wrong with the free service from DUATS?  It doesn’t look like an Excell page, but like the Ragu commercial says: "It’s all in there."     Perhaps the problem is I begrudge using my time that way.  With that aside, I volunteer to beta-test the spreadsheet should you ask. Regards, Casey

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Hi, If you are interested, you can check out the excel spreadsheet that I created a few years ago. There is also a javascript version. http://www.geocities.com/sridhar007/flying.html -Sridhar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got it!  Damn parentheses.  What a difference a ( ) makes. The corrected spreadsheet is at the original link: http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Flightplan.xls — Roger Long

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message I’m working on an Excel spreadsheet to do flight planning using formulas from Ed Williams site: http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm

I did this and then some with Excel. http://snow.prohosting.com/cryptwlf/flying/index.html I also hope to expand it when I have a bit more time. There is a lot of gotchas in doing all this in a spreadsheet. My actual personal version is at 1.11 and I’m still adding and changing things. I think I have most of the bugs fixed to where it shouldn’t be to bad. There is several gotcha type problems with doing as much as I did. I also plan on doing programs in either C++ or VB and eliminate the need for Excel.

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You might take a look at how Excel defaults its degrees. I believe you may have to convert to Radians or something, versus leaving everything in regular ol’ compass degrees.

To quote Excel Help:   SIN(number) Number   is the angle in radians for which you want the sine. Remark If your argument is in degrees, multiply it by PI()/180 or use the RADIANS function to convert it to radians. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —Brent There are still significant errors in ground speed.  I’m trying to figure out why. — Roger Long

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I’m working on an Excel spreadsheet to do flight planning using formulas from Ed Williams site: http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm Basically, it will duplicate what I used to do with an E6B and a paper form. The log is set up so that all the information needed in flight is on one half of an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet with the input data on the other half.  You can then fold it in half and have the rest of a clipboard size kneeboard available for other stuff. I like putting in the distance, course data, etc. well ahead of time and then plugging in the weather information just before I go.  Driving the Sporty’s E6B through it all is just too much work now that I’m no longer a student and don’t have to show my work to anyone.  This spreadsheet should make it easier. (Yeah, I know there are all sorts of flight planners out there but I’m a tightwad.  Besides, I like simple, homebrew stuff that I can set up the way I want.) I’ve got good agreement between the spreadsheet and the E6B on heading but a few percent disagreement on ground speed.  I haven’t done a complete hand verification yet but the spreadsheet actually looks more accurate.  When there is an exact headwind, the spreadsheet give the right answer while the E6B is off a couple knots.  Does the Sporty’s E6B use some approximations? If anyone who is a wiz with formulas and Excel would like to take a look at this, I’d appreciate it.  Anyone who wants, to play with it, further develop it, use it, whatever, feel free to download the in-progress file at: http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Flightplan.xls Strictly as-is, use at own risk, public domain.  Just let me know if you have any corrections, ideas, or comments. — Roger Long

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