Brewing Master » Beer Recipes

Man, This Sucks…

admin — Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jon – have you tried using the Winblows scheduler or backup utility? That might be something to backup your data to a cd-rw on a regular basis. Either that, or get a real os…OpenVMS! sorry to hear about your loss! Rodney I’ve taken to buying hard drives 2 at a time. I regularly duplicate one to the other using Ghost or similar. If the primary drive craps out, simply tell the BIOS to boot from the secondary and you’re back to life in a minute or two. Important data also gets backed up to other machines, CD and/or tape. IDE RAID is so cheap, why not mirror the 2 and bypass the pain of ghosting?

There is no pain, it happens automatically. And there are other advantages: If I accidentally goof up a file on the primary I can get the backup from the secondary. With RAID I could not do that. Also I set the drives so spin down when not in use so the secondary drive effectively has very few hours on it. DB

Response:

This guy removed his personal files from a network share. Hardly the rights of an admin or superuser would matter in this case. BTW — your argument applies to Windows NT and its successors 100%. Tom Veldhouse

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Linux, most flavors, don’t let you delete files that the superuser does not let you delete. Now if you use your computer as the admin all the time, that would be your mistake. It does not let you forget to backup, it just lets you not delete stuff. And that is where the OS comes into play. Running as root in linux is just plain dumb unless you are reconfiguring stuff.

Response:

Repeatedly spinning up and down a drive is much harder on it than letting it run continuously all the time. Power management is to save energy, not to increase the life of the drive. Tom Veldhouse

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is no pain, it happens automatically. And there are other advantages: If I accidentally goof up a file on the primary I can get the backup from the secondary. With RAID I could not do that. Also I set the drives so spin down when not in use so the secondary drive effectively has very few hours on it. DB

Response:

Probably because Windows lets too many people make these mistakes. Other OSes would not let you make the same mistake, unless you tried. How would another OS not let you forget to backup your files? I don’t see how the OS has anything to do with that. John.

To me, MS is just much less forgiving in it’s ability to recover after a catastrophic event – or maybe I should say it’s much more prone to catastrophic events from which you must recover. True, everyone should back up their files on a regular basis. Using MS products just makes that more true. Beer here, Mike

Response:

That isn’t the same as a backup. If you delete a file on a mirrored set of drives, after all, you’ve deleted it on both. Mirroring saves your ass if one of those drives fails, though…

Response:

I run Win2K and my wife & kids don’t have permission to delete anything. I work with a bunch of Mac users, and I get a kick out of it every time one of them complains about their computer crashing. Blaming things on the OS is a crutch. IMHO, you hear about more Windows crashes because more people are using Windows. Hardware quality control, on the other hand, is a huge issue. Compaq, Dell, HP, Gateway… suck. Just so happens that they run Windows. I built my own, and have very few problems. Of course, I have to provide my own tech support… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Probably because Windows lets too many people make these mistakes. Other OSes would not let you make the same mistake, unless you tried. How would another OS not let you forget to backup your files? I don’t see how the OS has anything to do with that. John. Linux, most flavors, don’t let you delete files that the superuser does not let you delete. Now if you use your computer as the admin all the time, that would be your mistake. It does not let you forget to backup, it just lets you not delete stuff. And that is where the OS comes into play. Running as root in linux is just plain dumb unless you are reconfiguring stuff.

– Todd Enlund http://www.photografik.net/lonelyneuron/ "Bandits at 3 O’Clock" "Roger. What should I do ’till then?"

Response:

Along those same lines: For anything that I actually write (code, brew recipes, etc) I put it into a CVS repository (for details see http://www.cvshome.org/). While this isn’t a backup method per se, it makes it extremely easy to maintain copies on multiple disks/systems. For example, while writing my thesis I set up a nightly cron job to do a CVS checkout from 3 systems on two continents. It gives added benefits of allowing one to work on the files from multiple systems as well as having the backup in a form that is immediately usable. CVS can also allow others to access my files over the net with either read-only or read-write permissions. -Brett.

Response:

Your old computer will not likely run Wine or any other windows emulation tool … How will you run Promash? Tom Veldhouse

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been dabbling with linux on the old computer as of late..I’m thinking of making the big switch… But regardless of the hardware and OS, if it’s important, back it up. I have been sometimes negligent in this area, and I’ve paid the price ;-( John

Response:

Why do you hate Windows? Because you made a mistake? You are blaming the wrong victim. Tom Veldhouse

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After inadvertently deleting a very important folder across my home network, I spent …

Response:

Also, Windows will save a deleted file in the recycle bin for every situation except when you delete from an open network drive window. That’s just idiotic.

If you set your share up correctly, it can have a working recycle bin on it. You just need to know what you are doing. Even the opensource emulation of this has a feature for it (http://www.samba.org). Anyway, off to a 6 am Sunday morning junior hockey game… …YAAWWWN (I wonder if I can bring my pillow).

I feel for you. Tom Veldhouse

Response:

Hey, you can do dumb stuff with any OS or hardware…believe me, I know! :)

Response:

No he didn’t ask about wine. However, he did mention, indirectly, ditching windows. If one were to want to run promash, they would have to run emulation and I wouldn’t run emulation on anything slower than a PPro — at least that is as slow as I could tolerate. Tom Veldhouse

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your old computer will not likely run Wine or any other windows emulation tool … How will you run Promash? Tom Veldhouse I have been dabbling with linux on the old computer as of late..I’m thinking of making the big switch… But regardless of the hardware and OS, if it’s important, back it up. I have been sometimes negligent in this area, and I’ve paid the price ;-( John Anything less than a 486 is not recommended, and I am sure he is running something faster than that, even though he stated it nowhere. Nor did he ask about wine. But you can answer all your questions about it at www.winehq.org

Response:

Wine? Isn’t this a brewing group? heh heh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your old computer will not likely run Wine

Response:

I’ve taken to buying hard drives 2 at a time. I regularly duplicate one to the other using Ghost or similar. If the primary drive craps out, simply tell the BIOS to boot from the secondary and you’re back to life in a minute or two. Important data also gets backed up to other machines, CD and/or tape. DB

Response:

Probably because Windows lets too many people make these mistakes. Other OSes would not let you make the same mistake, unless you tried.

How would another OS not let you forget to backup your files? I don’t see how the OS has anything to do with that. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Valley Mead Brewery ***

Response:

Jon – have you tried using the Winblows scheduler or backup utility? That might be something to backup your data to a cd-rw on a regular basis. Either that, or get a real os…OpenVMS! sorry to hear about your loss! Rodney I’ve taken to buying hard drives 2 at a time. I regularly duplicate one to the other using Ghost or similar. If the primary drive craps out, simply tell the BIOS to boot from the secondary and you’re back to life in a minute or two. Important data also gets backed up to other machines, CD and/or tape.

IDE RAID is so cheap, why not mirror the 2 and bypass the pain of ghosting?

Response:

visit www.backup.com – Bill Success lies in achieving the top of the food chain. — Jubal Harshaw, 1904- www.wiccaone.com/billsBrewery/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After inadvertently deleting a very important folder across my home network, I spent two days and a lot of money and phone time to get the thing recovered from my drive. Aside from some very important documents, one of the things in the folder were all of my beer recipes and brew sessions from Promash. After retrieving the folder and replacing it onto my hard drive, I discovered that all of my documents work fine — except the files with my beer recipes and brew sessions. Jeffery Donovan was on the phone to me as soon as his feet hit the floor this morning out west. We tried a few things, but to no avail. He has my files now and is trying to see if he can extract the data, but I may be horked. I have a few of my older recipes in another folder, but anything I’ve developed over the last two years is gone. I used to back up my files between two PCs, but I recently replaced the hard drive on my hub PC, and didn’t replace the files immediately after the installation. I hate Windows…

Response:

After inadvertently deleting a very important folder

(blah blah blah) I hate Windows…

Why do you hate Windows, when (1) you are the one who unadvertently deleted your important files, (2) you didn’t have backups of your files, and (3) you are aware that there are many other viable choices available. I sympathize with your pain of losing data (been-there, done-that), but is Windows’ fully to blame…? Cheers, Todd Bissell Eye Chart Brewing Company "Beers So Bitter, Your Eyes Will Cross!" http://www.eyechartbrewing.com

Response:

"Why do you hate Windows, when (1) you are the one who unadvertently deleted your important files, (2) you didn’t have backups of your files, and (3) you are aware that there are many other viable choices available." Yeah, I know I shoulda backed up after swapping my disk drive in my hub PC, but I hadn’t gotten to it yet. I’m no Mac head or Linux user either. I’ve never touched them. But I tell you, I’m getting more and more tempted every day to switch. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been heavy into a document when Windows locked up, forcing me to reboot and the file was lost — causing me to start over. You shouldn’t have to hit the save button every paragraph on a document to protect yourself from the specter of this. Also, Windows will save a deleted file in the recycle bin for every situation except when you delete from an open network drive window. That’s just idiotic. Anyway, off to a 6 am Sunday morning junior hockey game… …YAAWWWN (I wonder if I can bring my pillow).

Response:

I hate Windows…

Windows is responsible for you not backing up your data? cheers, -Alan

Response:

I have been dabbling with linux on the old computer as of late..I’m thinking of making the big switch… But regardless of the hardware and OS, if it’s important, back it up. I have been sometimes negligent in this area, and I’ve paid the price ;-( John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hate Windows… Windows is responsible for you not backing up your data? cheers, -Alan

Response:

Though a bit distant from the normal topics of this NG and a bit lengthy, backups can be much more easily done with a simple change in working habits in our day-to-day computing. I have found it helpful over the years to keep all personal data in subfolders in one directory (lately called by default in Windows): MyDirectory. This allows the user to simply and regularly copy that directory onto the CD-r or whatever media or device is used for backup. This method only requires an awareness on the part of the user at the time of the initial file save to change the datapath of the saved file from (in this case) C:programfilesProMash to c:mydirectorypromash. ProMash will hunt there for any file next time the program is opened. Microsoft is getting better at defaulting all personal file saves to one directory with each edition of its operating system, though it still has a ways to go to match the MacOS in this pursuit. On the Linux issue, I have Mandrake 9.0 on a laptop lately. It’s very fun and frustrating at the same time. I can spend about 20 minutes on it before I switch back to the ease and familiarity of Windows on the desktop computer. Linux has some distance to go to compete in the mainstream marketplace with Windows, but it’s getting better with each release. It is worth a look and for anyone who’s the least bit curious, it is as similar to Windows as is the MacOS and as different, too.

Response:

After inadvertently deleting a very important folder across my home network, I spent two days and a lot of money and phone time to get the thing recovered from my drive. Aside from some very important documents, one of the things in the folder were all of my beer recipes and brew sessions from Promash. After retrieving the folder and replacing it onto my hard drive, I discovered that all of my documents work fine — except the files with my beer recipes and brew sessions. Jeffery Donovan was on the phone to me as soon as his feet hit the floor this morning out west. We tried a few things, but to no avail. He has my files now and is trying to see if he can extract the data, but I may be horked. I have a few of my older recipes in another folder, but anything I’ve developed over the last two years is gone. I used to back up my files between two PCs, but I recently replaced the hard drive on my hub PC, and didn’t replace the files immediately after the installation. I hate Windows…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After inadvertently deleting a very important folder across my home network, I spent two days and a lot of money and phone time to get the thing recovered from my drive. Aside from some very important documents, one of the things in the folder were all of my beer recipes and brew sessions from Promash. After retrieving the folder and replacing it onto my hard drive, I discovered that all of my documents work fine — except the files with my beer recipes and brew sessions. Jeffery Donovan was on the phone to me as soon as his feet hit the floor this morning out west. We tried a few things, but to no avail. He has my files now and is trying to see if he can extract the data, but I may be horked. I have a few of my older recipes in another folder, but anything I’ve developed over the last two years is gone. I used to back up my files between two PCs, but I recently replaced the hard drive on my hub PC, and didn’t replace the files immediately after the installation. I hate Windows…

You must back up any data that you care about. This lesson is often learned the hard way. Assume that your hard drive can die at any time… because it can. DB

Response:

New Q. for MDIXON

admin — Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have some refractometer formulas and C-code at http://www.primetab.com/formulas.html Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab Seattle, WA (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com

Response:

It seems like this would be a great utility compiled for a palm pilot…I use my hydrocalc utility from ProMash when brewing, and the refractometer conversion would be pretty easy, too. If I get a chance, I’ll do it. Regards, Mike Sharp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have some refractometer formulas and C-code at http://www.primetab.com/formulas.html Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab Seattle, WA (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com

Response:

Since I only use it for hot wort, I use a factor of 4, but that is actually off, but it is also close enough for me to figure out how long I need to boil. Several good links were pointed out… On really high gravity worts your error can get fairly large. At 1.004 you are dead on 1 Brix but at 1.048 you are now at 11.9 Brix and at 1.064 you are at 15.65 Brix by the time you reach 1.100 you are now at 23.75 Brix I don’t keep a calculator around, and just let the difference ride, but you can certainly put up a conversion chart like this… http://www.fermsoft.com/gravbrix.php A chart is also in the back of the printed version of How To Brew by Palmer… Cheers, Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since I only use it for hot wort, I use a factor of 4, but that is actually off, but it is also close enough for me to figure out how long I need to boil. Several good links were pointed out… On really high gravity worts your error can get fairly large. At 1.004 you are dead on 1 Brix but at 1.048 you are now at 11.9 Brix and at 1.064 you are at 15.65 Brix by the time you reach 1.100 you are now at 23.75 Brix I don’t keep a calculator around, and just let the difference ride, but you can certainly put up a conversion chart like this… http://www.fermsoft.com/gravbrix.php A chart is also in the back of the printed version of How To Brew by Palmer… Cheers, Mike

Thanks to all that answered. Much appreciated. BlackBeard Submarines once, Submarines twice… " To laugh often and much; To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others; To leave the world a better place, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; To know even one life has breathed easier because you lived. This is to have succeeded".

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, since I believe you mentioned you use a refractometer I’ve directed this to you. (well, also the fact you always give good answers…) SWMBO bought me a refractometer for Christmas. (Bless her heart) It uses the Brix scale. There is no information in the box that clearly explains how this correlates to my gravity readings. Is it direct? Does 5 percent on the Brix scale equal 5 percent alc.? Please help. TIA BlackBeard Submarines once, Submarines twice… Multiply Brix*4 to get pretty darn close to SG, at least until you get to the upper reaches of SG. I think bregent has a spreadsheet to do the conversions, also.

I do and it’s at: http://www.bayareamashers.org/gadgets/refract.xls And yes, up to about 1.060 the 4x rule works good. Above that it’s not linear. The recipator widget tools has a converted at:

Response:

ProMash has a nice conversion utility between refractomers and SG. Degrees Brix is %sucrose as measured by light refraction. So 5 degrees Brix is 5% sucrose. A couple of caveats: 1) since your wort is not 100% Sucrose, it doesn’t refract light the same way Sucrose does. There is a small amount of error in the reading. ProMash will take this correction factor into consideration. 2) The refractometer will give an inaccurate reading after fermentation has started, because alcohol further changes the refraction characteristics of light through the solution. Handily, ProMash has a nice way of correcting for this, as long as you have an accurate OG. If you can live with a tiny amount of error, you can directly substitute degrees Brix and degrees Plato. Degrees Plato is %sucrose measured by displacement e.g. a hydrometer. So you are all set if you have beer recipes that use Plato. Again, handily, ProMash lets you formulate recipes using SG and Plato. I think you will get a lot more mileage and satisfaction from your refractometer if you get a copy of ProMash. Alternatively you can program an excel spreadsheet with a few simple formulas from the links in the other postings and you will also be OK. But I learned a lot about my refractometer from using it with ProMash so I highly recommend it. – Bill Success lies in achieving the top of the food chain. — Jubal Harshaw, 1904-

the affection of children; To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others; To leave the world a better place, whether by a healthy child, a garden

patch or a redeemed social condition; – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To know even one life has breathed easier because you lived. This is to have succeeded".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, since I believe you mentioned you use a refractometer I’ve directed this to you. (well, also the fact you always give good answers…) SWMBO bought me a refractometer for Christmas. (Bless her heart) It uses the Brix scale. There is no information in the box that clearly explains how this correlates to my gravity readings. Is it direct? Does 5 percent on the Brix scale equal 5 percent alc.? Please help. TIA BlackBeard Submarines once, Submarines twice… " To laugh often and much; To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others; To leave the world a better place, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; To know even one life has breathed easier because you lived. This is to have succeeded".

http://byo.com/mrwizard/730.html DB

Response:

Multiply Brix*4 to get pretty darn close to SG, at least until you get to the upper reaches of SG. I think bregent has a spreadsheet to do the conversions, also.

Response:

Mike, since I believe you mentioned you use a refractometer I’ve directed this to you. (well, also the fact you always give good answers…) SWMBO bought me a refractometer for Christmas. (Bless her heart) It uses the Brix scale. There is no information in the box that clearly explains how this correlates to my gravity readings. Is it direct? Does 5 percent on the Brix scale equal 5 percent alc.? Please help. TIA BlackBeard Submarines once, Submarines twice… " To laugh often and much; To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others; To leave the world a better place, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; To know even one life has breathed easier because you lived. This is to have succeeded".

Response:

ANNAPOLIS HOME BREW

admin — Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

A home brew store may regard their kit ingredients as proprietary information, which would be fair enough. But, perhaps they could print expected gravities and IBUs. I called Annapolis to get that information regarding their ale kit I’m brewing, and they were very accommodating. Ken A.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I was the first to complain about the ingredient lists. Since we have the owners ear and it is close to my brothers house, I would suggest they start giving new brewers the information they need in order to learn the hobby. They have an advantage online when it comes to web site and perhaps shipping ( I went to the store front). And they gave me the info I needed when I called. Just start printing the info on the packages and people will respond. The owners responded to the shipping questions but not the ingredients concern. Once you take care of that you should be golden. thanks Bryan Donovan San Diego Well thats good to know. I really do like dealing with them. I did email them about my first kits ingredient list and the answer I got wasn’t what you experienced. But I will try them again. Thanks for the heads up. The only think I do not like about them is the fact that none of the ingredients in their kits are labeled. By that I mean, the 4 hop additions just say add this package at beginning of boil, the next says add this at 30 minutes, the 3rd says add this at 10 minutes, etc. None of them says what type of hops they are. Is it cascade, fuggles, northern brewer? I have no idea. I do all my shopping at AHB. They’re great. If you ask them for the ingredient list, they’ll print it out for you and send it with your order. I shop in person there, and they always print me the ingredient list if I ask for it. I bet they’ll email it to you if you ask. They’re also good at helping you modify a recipe. They helped me modify their alt recipe for a slightly darker partial mash than the normal (i.e. more Munich malt). clarke

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I think I was the first to complain about the ingredient lists. Since we have the owners ear and it is close to my brothers house, I would suggest they start giving new brewers the information they need in order to learn the hobby. They have an advantage online when it comes to web site and perhaps shipping ( I went to the store front). And they gave me the info I needed when I called. Just start printing the info on the packages and people will respond. The owners responded to the shipping questions but not the ingredients concern. Once you take care of that you should be golden. thanks Bryan Donovan San Diego

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well thats good to know. I really do like dealing with them. I did email them about my first kits ingredient list and the answer I got wasn’t what you experienced. But I will try them again. Thanks for the heads up. The only think I do not like about them is the fact that none of the ingredients in their kits are labeled. By that I mean, the 4 hop additions just say add this package at beginning of boil, the next says add this at 30 minutes, the 3rd says add this at 10 minutes, etc. None of them says what type of hops they are. Is it cascade, fuggles, northern brewer? I have no idea. I do all my shopping at AHB. They’re great. If you ask them for the ingredient list, they’ll print it out for you and send it with your order. I shop in person there, and they always print me the ingredient list if I ask for it. I bet they’ll email it to you if you ask. They’re also good at helping you modify a recipe. They helped me modify their alt recipe for a slightly darker partial mash than the normal (i.e. more Munich malt). clarke

Response:

and full set of alliteration-compliant gadgets,

Correction. "full set of hokey spelled alliteration-compliant gadgets." — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont see how following a recipe and knowing exactly what each ingredient is helps you be a better brewer. It helps us beginners learn the characteristics of the different ingredients, and what we like and don’t like. "Oh, so THAT’s what Cascade hops smell and taste like!" and "Wow, that black patent tastes like the crumb tray of my toaster oven." I hate it when the grains come all mixed up together and already in a steeping sack. Besides making a dusty mess in the box, I don’t get to taste the individual grain types. Listing ingredients creates a more knowledgable brewer who, one hopes, will someday come back and buy a 50# sack of that grain he likes so much, and a grain mill, and ooh! that shiny 3-tier thing in the window, and… — http://homer.ctrust.com/danny/brewing/brewday.html

Response:

I dont see how following a recipe and knowing exactly what each ingredient is helps you be a better brewer.

It helps us beginners learn the characteristics of the different ingredients, and what we like and don’t like. "Oh, so THAT’s what Cascade hops smell and taste like!" and "Wow, that black patent tastes like the crumb tray of my toaster oven." I hate it when the grains come all mixed up together and already in a steeping sack. Besides making a dusty mess in the box, I don’t get to taste the individual grain types. Listing ingredients creates a more knowledgable brewer who, one hopes, will someday come back and buy a 50# sack of that grain he likes so much, and a grain mill, and full set of alliteration-compliant gadgets, and ooh! that shiny 3-tier thing in the window, and… — http://homer.ctrust.com/danny/brewing/brewday.html

Response:

We give the ingredients to our kits and really don’t worry about it. There have been some who come into the store and use a kit’s list to save a bit. We consider that high praise. If a micro were to copy our recipe for themselves, well, that would be really be high praise, now wouldn’t it? — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I was the first to complain about the ingredient lists. Since we have the owners ear and it is close to my brothers house, I would suggest they start giving new brewers the information they need in order to learn the hobby. They have an advantage online when it comes to web site and perhaps shipping ( I went to the store front). And they gave me the info I needed when I called. Just start printing the info on the packages and people will respond. The owners responded to the shipping questions but not the ingredients concern. Once you take care of that you should be golden. TECHNICALLY… they shouldnt have to give you the ingredients. It is THEIR kit… now, admittedly, AHB’s beer kits dont have national reknown or whathaveyou… but it’d be like buying Otis Spunkmeyer cookie dough or mix and getting pissed that they didnt give you the recipe… or Betty Crocker cake mixes… Now, admittedly, AHB’s beer isnt on that scale of popularity and acclaim… to my knowledge, people dont flock to AHB for THEIR recipe kits because they are so much better than everyone else’s… but it is THEIR recipe, and I dont blame them for not wanting to give out the recipe. Some jackass who wants to open a microbrewry but sucks at making his own beer (recipes) could well steal a AHB recipe, and sell it at his microbrewry, making a profit off AHB’s efforts at developing a good recipe. Of course thats the extreme, but I dont feel they have any obligation to tell you whats in it. If some shops want to do it, then fine. If they dont, fine. Buy elsewhere… but I dont see how following a recipe and knowing exactly what each ingredient is helps you be a better brewer. Reading, doing and learning does that… Sure, you can pick things up here and there, but I’ve never known the full ingredients list of any kit I’ve made from there, and I’m no worse off for it.

Response:

TECHNICALLY… they shouldnt have to give you the ingredients. It is THEIR kit… now, admittedly, AHB’s beer kits dont have national reknown or whathaveyou… but it’d be like buying Otis Spunkmeyer cookie dough or mix and getting pissed that they didnt give you the recipe… or Betty Crocker cake mixes… Now, admittedly, AHB’s beer isnt on that scale of popularity and acclaim… to my knowledge, people dont flock to AHB for THEIR recipe kits because they are so much better than everyone else’s… but it is THEIR recipe, and I dont blame them for not wanting to give out the recipe. Some jackass who wants to open a microbrewry but sucks at making his own beer (recipes) could well steal a AHB recipe, and sell it at his microbrewry, making a profit off AHB’s efforts at developing a good recipe. Of course thats the extreme, but I dont feel they have any obligation to tell you whats in it. If some shops want to do it, then fine. If they dont, fine. Buy elsewhere… but I dont see how following a recipe and knowing exactly what each ingredient is helps you be a better brewer. Reading, doing and learning does that… Sure, you can pick things up here and there, but I’ve never known the full ingredients list of any kit I’ve made from there, and I’m no worse off for it.

Response:

I placed my order this afternoon for 2 kits, and already received an email with a tracking number. I was damn impressed. The shipping cost was surprisingly low ($7 and change) and with such a prompt response brought a smile to my face. If the kits are as good as what’s happened so far I’ll be a very happy camper. Well done sir.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy All! I’m one of the owners of Annapolis Home Brew. Someone was kind enough to let me know that there’s an issue being discussed here, so I thought I’d take a moment to address some concerns… I know that in the past some customers have been troubled because they didn’t receive their UPS tracking numbers by Email. We now send an Email with the tracking numbers on the same day that each shipment goes out. Mr. Jones – I sent you an Email on 9/23/02 at 4:41pm with your tracking numbers. You may not have received it for some reason. If not, please let me know so that I can send it again. When it comes to shipping charges, I know it would be very nice to see them as soon as you type in your order, but that’s not the cheapest way to do it. The only way to have an automated program calculate shipping is to one of the following: "Per-Item" shipping. Example: automatically charging $3.00 to ship a capper. That might be fair if you order one capper, but it doesn’t really cost 10 times as much to send a box containing ten of them! The customer gets burned on large orders this way. "Value-Based" shipping. Example: automatically charging 10% of the order total for shipping. This doesn’t even begin to adress the differenmce between shipping a $40.00 50-pound bag of grain versus a $40.00 1-pound keg fitting. Soem people are lucky this way and others get burned. There’s no way for me to make the software smart enough to automatically know what items in your order can be boxed together (to save money – it’s almost always cheaper to send one big/heavy box rather than two smaller/lighter ones.) We always pack orders with a keen interest in making the shipping as cheap as possible while also keeping the items as safe and secure as possible. The automatic response email, which is sent immediately to confirm your order, won’t contain the UPS tracking numbers because we haven’t physically processed the order yet. It does contain the following text: <<

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last week I sent a message asking for info for a beginner and getting started. It was the general consensus of those that answered, that I purchase materials online and then get help as needed from RCB members. Saturday night I placed a $300 order from Annapolis Home Brew to get me started. Sunday morning I received an automated response saying that they had received the order and that it would be processed shortly. Also stated that they would calculate the shipping and notify me on the final total. Haven’t heard anything from them as of yet, although I do know that my credit card was charged yesterday. At this point I don’t know if the order has shipped or not, or when to expect it. Anyone have experience with them? Is this lagtime in communication normal? TIA, Larry Jones

Response:

Well thats good to know. I really do like dealing with them. I did email them about my first kits ingredient list and the answer I got wasn’t what you experienced. But I will try them again. Thanks for the heads up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only think I do not like about them is the fact that none of the ingredients in their kits are labeled. By that I mean, the 4 hop additions just say add this package at beginning of boil, the next says add this at 30 minutes, the 3rd says add this at 10 minutes, etc. None of them says what type of hops they are. Is it cascade, fuggles, northern brewer? I have no idea. I do all my shopping at AHB. They’re great. If you ask them for the ingredient list, they’ll print it out for you and send it with your order. I shop in person there, and they always print me the ingredient list if I ask for it. I bet they’ll email it to you if you ask. They’re also good at helping you modify a recipe. They helped me modify their alt recipe for a slightly darker partial mash than the normal (i.e. more Munich malt). clarke

Response:

Last week I sent a message asking for info for a beginner and getting started. It was the general consensus of those that answered, that I purchase materials online and then get help as needed from RCB members. Saturday night I placed a $300 order from Annapolis Home Brew to get me started. Sunday morning I received an automated response saying that they had received the order and that it would be processed shortly. Also stated that they would calculate the shipping and notify me on the final total. Haven’t heard anything from them as of yet, although I do know that my credit card was charged yesterday. At this point I don’t know if the order has shipped or not, or when to expect it. Anyone have experience with them? Is this lagtime in communication normal? TIA, Larry Jones

Response:

I buy all my HB stuff from them, and have found that they pretty much suck at getting back to you, but ARE great as far as price and speed of shipping, etc… I ordered a recipe kit from them a few weeks ago, and it shipped the next day, but I had to call them to confirm it shipped, even though I specifically asked that they let me know. I also shop there in person… nice guys… just real flaky on getting back to you. Dont worry, unless something was out of stock, I’m sure your order is on a UPS truck by now. Give them a call… #’s on the website.

Response:

I was just visiting in Maryland. I got my brother started with a starter kit. I was not impressed with the store. Since then my brother has gone to a place in Columbia. Not sure of the name but you can find it with a google search "homebrewing + Maryland". hope that helps.

Response:

Just outta curiosity, since its the only HBS I shop at… why were you unimpressed? What didnt they offer that others do?

Response:

The guy was really nice at Annapolis. At the store I go to in San Diego there is more of a bulk foods feel where I can sift through all the grains and find my own stuff. My brother says the store in Columbia is like this. also the kit was all prepackaged with the steeping grains already run through the mill I don’t know when. The packages of hops did not specify the hops type or alhpa acid content which I wanted my brother to learn how to use ( I called and they gave me the info). I think I got a bad package of yeast. It started really slow. ( may not be their fault). My brothers friend says he only goes to the one in Columbia? I’m sure its all personal preference. The web site for the store in Columbia is awful so if your doing everything online it you might prefer Annapolis.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just visiting in Maryland. I got my brother started with a starter kit. I was not impressed with the store. Since then my brother has gone to a place in Columbia. Not sure of the name but you can find it with a google search "homebrewing + Maryland". hope that helps. Just outta curiosity, since its the only HBS I shop at… why were you unimpressed? What didnt they offer that others do?

Response:

I assume you bought the prepackaged box kit? They sell those very quickly… besides the fact the grains are sealed airtight… I’ve had them tell me their kits dont sit on the shelves more than a week. The packages of hops did not specify the hops type or alhpa acid content which I wanted my brother to learn how to use ( I called and they gave me the info).

I do dislike that… I’ve never know WHAT hops I’ve been putting into my beer… its never labeled. I think I got a bad package of yeast. It started really slow. ( may not be their fault). My brothers friend says he only goes to the one in Columbia?

Never had a yeast problem, but unless they left it out of the fridge, it cant really be their fault… I’m sure its all personal preference. The web site for the store in Columbia is awful so if your doing everything online it you might prefer Annapolis.

is it marylandhomebrew.com? If I remember correctly, their website DOES suck royally… and columbia is a hike for me… so as for picking stuff up in person, AHB is my only option.

Response:

that’s the one. I told my brother to complain about their site, but I doubt he did.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The guy was really nice at Annapolis. At the store I go to in San Diego there is more of a bulk foods feel where I can sift through all the grains and find my own stuff. My brother says the store in Columbia is like this. also the kit was all prepackaged with the steeping grains already run through the mill I don’t know when. I assume you bought the prepackaged box kit? They sell those very quickly… besides the fact the grains are sealed airtight… I’ve had them tell me their kits dont sit on the shelves more than a week. The packages of hops did not specify the hops type or alhpa acid content which I wanted my brother to learn how to use ( I called and they gave me the info). I do dislike that… I’ve never know WHAT hops I’ve been putting into my beer… its never labeled. I think I got a bad package of yeast. It started really slow. ( may not be their fault). My brothers friend says he only goes to the one in Columbia? Never had a yeast problem, but unless they left it out of the fridge, it cant really be their fault… I’m sure its all personal preference. The web site for the store in Columbia is awful so if your doing everything online it you might prefer Annapolis. is it marylandhomebrew.com? If I remember correctly, their website DOES suck royally… and columbia is a hike for me… so as for picking stuff up in person, AHB is my only option.

Response:

I have already answered Brooks directly, and now will do the same here. I came home from work today to find 5 boxes totaling 83 lbs that UPS had delivered during the downpour of TS Isidore. Thankfully the kids were out of school so they were able to get it all inside. The service was great! Especially considering that the packages came UPS ground from Maryland to South Alabama. AHB packed them and shipped them out on Monday. As far as the e-mail from AHB is concerned, it very likely it stuck in cyberspace somewhere. Been using this medium since 1986 starting a BBS and Prodigy. In this time I have had quite a few e-mails jump into my mailbox as long as a month after being sent. Brooks, thanks again for the great service! Larry

Response:

The only think I do not like about them is the fact that none of the ingredients in their kits are labeled. By that I mean, the 4 hop additions just say add this package at beginning of boil, the next says add this at 30 minutes, the 3rd says add this at 10 minutes, etc. None of them says what type of hops they are. Is it cascade, fuggles, northern brewer? I have no idea.

I do all my shopping at AHB. They’re great. If you ask them for the ingredient list, they’ll print it out for you and send it with your order. I shop in person there, and they always print me the ingredient list if I ask for it. I bet they’ll email it to you if you ask. They’re also good at helping you modify a recipe. They helped me modify their alt recipe for a slightly darker partial mash than the normal (i.e. more Munich malt). clarke

Response:

I have ordered Kits from Annapolis a few times. Of the 4 or 5 different on line brew shops I’ve used, they are by far the quickest in sending the order out. If I order on Saturday, I usually have it on Tuesday. Very impressive turn around. The only think I do not like about them is the fact that none of the ingredients in their kits are labeled. By that I mean, the 4 hop additions just say add this package at beginning of boil, the next says add this at 30 minutes, the 3rd says add this at 10 minutes, etc. None of them says what type of hops they are. Is it cascade, fuggles, northern brewer? I have no idea. Same for the malt. After I made the first kit I emailed them saying I thought I accidently threw away the paper with the list of ingredients. They emailed back saying they do not include it and have a policy of not disclosing the exact ingredients. With the 2nd kit I ordered it was the same. I’m unsure if I will order another kit. On the 2nd kit I had to peel of their label just to see exactly which WYeast they sent me (their label covered the whole top part of the pack except the date). I really don’t like not knowing which specific ingredients I’m using. I will say, however, that the Blonde Ale kit I made from them came out excellent. The English Pale Ale fermenting now has come along excellent so far as well. I also think they have one of the best layouts for an online catalog. Very easy to find styles, their descriptions are excellent and they make it very easy to choose between extract, partial mash and all grain. To bad all on line shops didn’t follow their format. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last week I sent a message asking for info for a beginner and getting started. It was the general consensus of those that answered, that I purchase materials online and then get help as needed from RCB members. Saturday night I placed a $300 order from Annapolis Home Brew to get me started. Sunday morning I received an automated response saying that they had received the order and that it would be processed shortly. Also stated that they would calculate the shipping and notify me on the final total. Haven’t heard anything from them as of yet, although I do know that my credit card was charged yesterday. At this point I don’t know if the order has shipped or not, or when to expect it. Anyone have experience with them? Is this lagtime in communication normal? TIA, Larry Jones

Response:

Are there no Local Home Brew Stores (LHBS) in your area? $300 seems a bit high unless you are going to start with an all-grain setup.

What?? I can get you an AG setup for practically nothing. I also can spend $300 on brew stuff without blinking. My last grain order just my part was $250. Just this week I ordered more dispensing items and spent over $100. Cheers, Mike

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last week I sent a message asking for info for a beginner and getting started. It was the general consensus of those that answered, that I purchase materials online and then get help as needed from RCB members. Saturday night I placed a $300 order from Annapolis Home Brew to get me started. Sunday morning I received an automated response saying that they had received the order and that it would be processed shortly. Also stated that they would calculate the shipping and notify me on the final total. Haven’t heard anything from them as of yet, although I do know that my credit card was charged yesterday. At this point I don’t know if the order has shipped or not, or when to expect it. Anyone have experience with them? Is this lagtime in communication normal? TIA, Larry Jones

Are there no Local Home Brew Stores (LHBS) in your area? $300 seems a bit high unless you are going to start with an all-grain setup. I would think that most on-line dealers would get your order out the door in less than 2 days.

Response:

Howdy All! I’m one of the owners of Annapolis Home Brew. Someone was kind enough to let me know that there’s an issue being discussed here, so I thought I’d take a moment to address some concerns… I know that in the past some customers have been troubled because they didn’t receive their UPS tracking numbers by Email. We now send an Email with the tracking numbers on the same day that each shipment goes out. Mr. Jones – I sent you an Email on 9/23/02 at 4:41pm with your tracking numbers. You may not have received it for some reason. If not, please let me know so that I can send it again. When it comes to shipping charges, I know it would be very nice to see them as soon as you type in your order, but that’s not the cheapest way to do it. The only way to have an automated program calculate shipping is to one of the following: "Per-Item" shipping. Example: automatically charging $3.00 to ship a capper. That might be fair if you order one capper, but it doesn’t really cost 10 times as much to send a box containing ten of them! The customer gets burned on large orders this way. "Value-Based" shipping. Example: automatically charging 10% of the order total for shipping. This doesn’t even begin to adress the differenmce between shipping a $40.00 50-pound bag of grain versus a $40.00 1-pound keg fitting. Soem people are lucky this way and others get burned. There’s no way for me to make the software smart enough to automatically know what items in your order can be boxed together (to save money – it’s almost always cheaper to send one big/heavy box rather than two smaller/lighter ones.) We always pack orders with a keen interest in making the shipping as cheap as possible while also keeping the items as safe and secure as possible. The automatic response email, which is sent immediately to confirm your order, won’t contain the UPS tracking numbers because we haven’t physically processed the order yet. It does contain the following text: <<

Response:

I have looked at them a lot because I live in Northern Virginia and there is not a lot in this area in the way of local Homebrew shops. I have not used them because there prices seem high to me. I did a quick comparison of Idophor, PBW, Muntons DME, a carboy and a plastic bucket and Annapolis was 10 – 30% higher than Northern Brewer and 12 – 44% higher than St. Pats (compared a different DME) no afflication to either, etc). I did not find a single item that was cheaper. Maybe they offer better prices in person, but if ordering online, I suggest you shop around. Even in person where you save shipping I doubt they are competitive.

Response:

Actually, they are a lot cheaper online for some reason. From work, they are a 35 minute drive for me, so 70 mins round-trip. Thats a couple bucks in gas. I drove there once to pick up a recipe kit I saw online, and it was more expensive in the store… figured with what I paid for gas, I would have saved about 85 cents and 70 minutes roundtrip in my car if I just had them ship it. On the plus side, they charge you exactly what UPS charges them, and dont even charge you for the box they ship it in… and since I have it delivered to work, it’s even cheaper (UPS charges less to deliver to a commercial address). They are a small shop run by 2 guys who are, I think, brothers. Prices are a little higher I’m assuming because they arent a high-volume operation, and need to charge a little more to stay in business. Nice folks though… dont know how many times I’ve called them with questions about something or another, to get a friendly answer with no talk of buying anything (most places, in my experience, homebrew or not, dont really like you calling them for advice/help unless it’s regarding a recent purchase, or a future purchase…) Higher prices or no, unless it’s a big ticket item I can save good money on (my ranco temperature control, for example) I just order from them… they may be a little more, but since they are close I get whatever I order the next day, or if really impaitent I can just drive down there.

Response:

I agree – they have always been quick with shipping, and helpful at the store. Their recipes kits are good, too. Zab – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last week I sent a message asking for info for a beginner and getting started. It was the general consensus of those that answered, that I purchase materials online and then get help as needed from RCB members. Saturday night I placed a $300 order from Annapolis Home Brew to get me started. Sunday morning I received an automated response saying that they had received the order and that it would be processed shortly. Also stated that they would calculate the shipping and notify me on the final total. Haven’t heard anything from them as of yet, although I do know that my credit card was charged yesterday. At this point I don’t know if the order has shipped or not, or when to expect it. Anyone have experience with them? Is this lagtime in communication normal? I buy all my HB stuff from them, and have found that they pretty much suck at getting back to you, but ARE great as far as price and speed of shipping, etc… I ordered a recipe kit from them a few weeks ago, and it shipped the next day, but I had to call them to confirm it shipped, even though I specifically asked that they let me know. I also shop there in person… nice guys… just real flaky on getting back to you. Dont worry, unless something was out of stock, I’m sure your order is on a UPS truck by now. Give them a call… #’s on the website.

Response:

I have no idea about the AHB store, but IME, a phone call can straighten out any ambiguities and anomalies that might occur via the internet… Cheers, Mike

Response:

Beers Captured and long mashes

admin — Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Broke down at my lhbs yesterday and bought Beers Captured by Mark and Tess Szamatulski. There are very few good recipes on the web, so I figured I’d spring for a recipe book and try my luck. I also looked at their other books, Clonebrews and North America Clonebrews, but Beer Captured seemed to have more beer recipes geared toward my tastes. I have Beer Captured and Clonebrews. Both are excellent books. I noticed that each recipe calls a 90 minute mash. Is there any reason other than total conversion to mash for 90 instead of 60 minutes? I tried a 90 minute mash today for the heck of it, wondering if I’ll see a difference in my efficiency… You’ll notice that every mash temp is listed as 152F as well. I’m pretty sure that they created the recipes as extract and "converted" them to all-grain in the sidebars. I’m not sure how much attention you need to pay to the mash time and the temperatures they list. I usually try to adjust the mash temp based upon my own experience for what I think that style would call for. Actually, I just checked and many of them have mashes other than 152

Extract Questions and more

admin — Wed, 31 Jul 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

1.Are there really any differences between different brands of liquid malt extract? How about dry malt extracts?

Yes. Yes. 2.What is the purpose of using malto dextrin in beer recipes? Is it fermentable?

To boost gravity and body. Not really. 3. Are any differences between German Malts and their American

counterparts? Yes. Cheers, Mike

Response:

1.Are there really any differences between different brands of liquid malt extract? How about dry malt extracts?

Both liquid and dry malt extracts vary a lot between brands. We keep two brands of bulk liquid light extract in stock for this very reason – Munton’s Super light and United Canadian maltings light. the Canadian is lighter than the Muntons and ferments out further. If we are making a dry beer like a pilsner we go with the Canadian. For a sweeter less alcoholic beer like a mild ale, we use Munton’s. Many styles seem to do very well with blends of the two. We use the different extracts and sometimes sugars to control attenuation. I don’t use dry malt extract much any more, but Laaglander is very well known as a low attenuator. I believe that it is designed to be used with sugar. 2.What is the purpose of using malto dextrin in beer recipes? Is it fermentable?

Malto dextrin is not supposed to ferment. It gives great mouth feel and can be added at any point in the process from the boil to bottling. If you taste your beer at bottling and decide that it is "thin," add 4 oz of malto dextrin and taste again. If it is still too thin, hit it again. You will notice a difference. 3. Are any differences between German Malts and their American

counterparts? All things are relative. What do you mean by "different?" — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, Larry P

Response:

1.Are there really any differences between different brands of liquid malt extract? How about dry malt extracts? 2.What is the purpose of using malto dextrin in beer recipes? Is it fermentable? 3. Are any differences between German Malts and their American counterparts? Thanks, Larry P

Response:

favorite beer style series books?

admin — Mon, 10 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have "Stout". It’s not that great. Kind of wanders. Also, he gets lost in a series of comparitive tasting of various stouts.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am soliciting comments on the Classic Beer style series books.. What are the favorites? I have enough beer books that I’ve never looked at after the first read, I was wondering, which ones are the best, the ones that are enjoyable to read AND have dead-on style recipes and suggestions?

Response:

I have "Stout". It’s not that great. Kind of wanders. Also, he gets lost in a series of comparitive tasting of various stouts.

He also had someone else do the recipes. It is not one of my favorites either… Cheers, Mike

Response:

Brown Ale, Mild Ale and German Wheat Beer are my favorites. The Oktoberfest and Pilsner books were worth the $1 that I paid for them at the Discount bookstore. The older books of the series are quite outdated on malts and yeast selections. I had email exchanges with the late George Fix about the malt selections in his Oktoberfest book and that is what was available to the general brewing public when he wrote that book. He was hoping to update that book someday…… Wayne Botanist Brewer Big Fun Brewing RIMS Site http://hometown.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm Note: Spamguard used in email address…..

Response:

I also the Pale Ale and Brown Ale Classic Beer Series books. Terry Foster, who wrote Pale Ale also did one on Porter that is very good. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought the Pale Ale and Brown ALe books were both good. ——-Denny The Bock book by Richman taught me the most on lagers in general and of course, decoction. The Scotch Ale book by Noonan was a difficult read. The history was good but the recipe section wasn’t up to standards. The rest that I have read (Wheat, Alt, Pilsner, Barkeywine, Vienna/Octoberfest) are in between. Burp, -Dan I am soliciting comments on the Classic Beer style series books.. What are the favorites? I have enough beer books that I’ve never looked at after the first read, I was wondering, which ones are the best, the ones that are enjoyable to read AND have dead-on style recipes and suggestions?

Response:

I thought the Pale Ale and Brown ALe books were both good. ——-Denny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Bock book by Richman taught me the most on lagers in general and of course, decoction. The Scotch Ale book by Noonan was a difficult read. The history was good but the recipe section wasn’t up to standards. The rest that I have read (Wheat, Alt, Pilsner, Barkeywine, Vienna/Octoberfest) are in between. Burp, -Dan I am soliciting comments on the Classic Beer style series books.. What are the favorites? I have enough beer books that I’ve never looked at after the first read, I was wondering, which ones are the best, the ones that are enjoyable to read AND have dead-on style recipes and suggestions?

Response:

I am soliciting comments on the Classic Beer style series books.. What are the favorites? I have enough beer books that I’ve never looked at after the first read, I was wondering, which ones are the best, the ones that are enjoyable to read AND have dead-on style recipes and suggestions?

I have read them all. With that in mind, my favorites were: Alt Kolsch Mild Smoked Pale Ale (old and new) Porter Cheers, Mike

Response:

The Bock book by Richman taught me the most on lagers in general and of course, decoction. The Scotch Ale book by Noonan was a difficult read. The history was good but the recipe section wasn’t up to standards. The rest that I have read (Wheat, Alt, Pilsner, Barkeywine, Vienna/Octoberfest) are in between. Burp, -Dan

Response:

Greetings: I have a couple of books in the the Classic Beer Style series: Altbier and Kolsch. I’ve given Altbier a thorough reading, but haven’t spent more than about ten minutes with Kolsch yet. I flipped through Brown Ales in my LHBS, and it also looks quite good. My impression of the series is that there may be some variation from author to author, but all the books look like they offer in-depth coverage into the particular style’s origins, history, and brewing techniques. With Albier, if you’re just after the recipes, you can jump straight to chapter six and be brewing in an hour. If you don’t want to be spared the details you can read the book cover-to-cover. There is some material that an experienced all-grain homebrewer would already be acquainted with. The Albier Equipment for the Homebrewer chapter is the major example of this. There is some quite basic material contained in book, but I think this is fine as it makes the book a self-contained reference for the style. With very few exceptions this book has all the information you need to brew Altbier. One feature that I really liked was the way that the recipes are given. It makes them easy to tailor to the particular ingredients you have. Rather than just giving the mass of bittering hops you should be using, you’re given a simple formula to determine how much you need based on the hop %AA. The appendices give further formulas to take into account your boil time, etc. when determining your hop bill. Similar formulas are given for the grain bill. I wish all beer recipes were given in this way. Anyways, I’m certainly happy with Altbier. I’ll be able to comment on at least one of the recipes in a couple of months. Mark A. Fox

Response:

Dandilion Wine?

admin — Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I looked into it a few years ago when living in university housing and htere were literally acres coming in at a time. After a couple of years, I managed to have a recipe in hand *before* they came, and thought I was ready. Rather than all at once, they came in a wave that lasted weeks Anyway, what the recipes seem to have in common is yellow deandelion flower roughly equal in volume to the amount of finished wine, and something to ferment (honey/sugar/whatvever). Someday I’ll get some . . . hawk — Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /" ASCII ribbon campaign These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. /

Response:

OK, Spring is here and looking at my yard and its massive crop of dandilions, got me wondering. Is dandilion wine for real, what is it, whats in it? Whats a recipe. Heck I’m just curious, maybe off topic but I bet someone here knows??? Thanks

Response:

Dandelion wine is for real. I’ve had it twice. Once it was made with honey so I guess it’s a mead. The other time it was made with sugar. They were both horrible. You might ask on rec.crafts.meadmaking. If you do a google search I’m sure you’ll find many recipes. OK, Spring is here and looking at my yard and its massive crop of dandilions, got me wondering. Is dandilion wine for real, what is it, whats in it? Whats a recipe. Heck I’m just curious, maybe off topic but I bet someone here knows??? Thanks

Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

It’s definately for real. I’ve only had it once, but it was pretty good. The stuff I had was 7 or 8 years old, and I have no idea what was in it, unfortunately. My girlfriend and I made some last spring from a recipe we dug up somewhere….I don’t have it in front of me, but I remember it having oranges, lemons, dandelions, white raisons, corn sugar, etc. I had forgotton about it, but I guess it’s time to crack a bottle open and see how it’s going. If it shows promise, I try to dig up the recipe and post it here. -Darren —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! ==—–

Response:

"Spring is here and looking at my yard and its massive crop of dandilions, got me wondering. Is dandilion wine for real, what is it, whats in it? Whats a recipe?" There are as many recipes for dandelion wine as there are beer recipes. Many go back for centuries. My grandfather at 90 still makes his own, though to me, it’s awful stuff to drink. One recipe I found on the internet: 1 qt. dandelion blossoms 1 gal. hot water 3 1/2 lb. sugar 2 lemons, cut in chunks 2 oranges, cut in chunks Pour hot water over dandelion blossoms. Let stand for 24 hours. Strain through a jelly bag. Heat juice (throw away what gets caught in the jelly bag) and add sugar, lemons and oranges. Reheat (do not boil), then put in a stone jar. Let ferment. Skim everyday for 6 or 7 weeks, removing fruit after 2 weeks. Put in sterile, sealed bottles. An interesting fact about dandelions is that they are not native to north America. Colonists brought them here from Europe as a food source a few hundred years ago. Unfortunately, since then, we spend billions of dollars each year to eradicate these little "gifts" from our forefathers.

Response:

My father’s uncle used to make dandelion wine. When my dad was just a young ‘un, his uncle would pay him to go out in the yard to pick the dandelions. The uncle was amazed when my father brought him a huge sack full within about ten minutes. My father had pounded a few nails into a board & simply swathed the things with his contraption. Sneaky little bugger. You could also use the dandelions instead of hops or in conjunction with to flavour beer (from what I’ve heard – no personal experience from me), and I just saw a news article a couple of nights ago on how dandelions are becoming popular at the local specialty produce store. Apparently people eat the green part. Yuck. Kelvin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, Spring is here and looking at my yard and its massive crop of dandilions, got me wondering. Is dandilion wine for real, what is it, whats in it? Whats a recipe. Heck I’m just curious, maybe off topic but I bet someone here knows??? Thanks

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I have made dandelion beer twice. The last time I used no hops – just dandelions. Frankly it was a bit disappointing since it tasted a bit like Bud. When I went to do it again, my eyes and nose told me that that was not a good idea. — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My father’s uncle used to make dandelion wine. When my dad was just a young ‘un, his uncle would pay him to go out in the yard to pick the dandelions. The uncle was amazed when my father brought him a huge sack full within about ten minutes. My father had pounded a few nails into a board & simply swathed the things with his contraption. Sneaky little bugger. You could also use the dandelions instead of hops or in conjunction with to flavour beer (from what I’ve heard – no personal experience from me), and I just saw a news article a couple of nights ago on how dandelions are becoming popular at the local specialty produce store. Apparently people eat the green part. Yuck. Kelvin OK, Spring is here and looking at my yard and its massive crop of dandilions, got me wondering. Is dandilion wine for real, what is it, whats in it? Whats a recipe. Heck I’m just curious, maybe off topic but I bet someone here knows??? Thanks

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Anyway, what the recipes seem to have in common is yellow deandelion flower roughly equal in volume to the amount of finished wine, and something to ferment (honey/sugar/whatvever). A friend used to make Gorse Wine. Gorse (furze) is a thorny European plant that sets the hills alive with brilliant yellow flowers every year.

They’re also good at catching chubby little bears all stuffed with fluff . . . hawk — Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /" ASCII ribbon campaign These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. /

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Jack Keller will make wine from anything that isn’t moving fast enough to get away from him.

There *has* to be a joke about stopping a wife mid-shopping spree and a bum knee in here *somewhere* — Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /" ASCII ribbon campaign These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. /

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Anyway, what the recipes seem to have in common is yellow deandelion flower roughly equal in volume to the amount of finished wine, and something to ferment (honey/sugar/whatvever).

A friend used to make Gorse Wine. Gorse (furze) is a thorny European plant that sets the hills alive with brilliant yellow flowers every year. I remember drinking it with gusto and feeling like death the next day. Interestingly, Merriam Webster says: "Etymology: Middle English gorst, from Old English; akin to Old High German gersta, barley". ben

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There are as many recipes for dandelion wine as there are beer recipes. Many go back for centuries……

I have made it several times and thought it was great…. that was when anything home made seemed great. In fact it was rather lousy stuff. Later in life I learned that most of the recipes (at least the ones I was aware of) were ill-informed nonsense. Dandelion wine is basically a sort of wine made from raisons and fortified with sugar. This is pretty minimal stuff but what is supposed to make it worthwhile is the bouquet contributed by the dandelions. This of course, is completely lost in any process where heat is applied to the must and why my attempts tasted like lousy raison wine. The dandelions should be added only near the end of fermentation if any bouquet from them is expected. Otherwise, you are waisting your time bothering with the dandelions in dandelion wine. js — PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm HOME: Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Sausage, Videos http://user.mc.net/arf

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dandelions are becoming popular at the local specialty produce store. Apparently people eat the green part. Yuck.

The edible "green part" is just the leaf, not the hollow stem, so it’s not so different from eating lettuce. Edible green leaves aren’t so strange. Dandelion leaves are a little bitter on their own, but plenty of salad mixes, like those they sell as "spring mix" here in San Francisco, contain some. Fun fact: they’re quite a powerful diuretic, hence their name in French, "pisenlit" — piss the bed. ben

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Tasted like Bud, eh? Now we know their secret.

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Jack Keller will make wine from anything that isn’t moving fast enough to get away from him. Here’s a link to his recipes: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques2.asp Or start out at the main entry point, that’ll keep you busy for a few years. http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp Also, you will find a lot of winemaking expertise in rec.crafts.winemaking. Cheers Brian

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, Spring is here and looking at my yard and its massive crop of dandilions, got me wondering. Is dandilion wine for real, what is it, whats in it? Whats a recipe. Heck I’m just curious, maybe off topic but I bet someone here knows??? Thanks

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1 qt. dandelion blossoms 1 gal. hot water 3 1/2 lb. sugar 2 lemons, cut in chunks 2 oranges, cut in chunks Pour hot water over dandelion blossoms. Let stand for 24 hours. Strain through a jelly bag. Heat juice (throw away what gets caught in the jelly bag) and add sugar, lemons and oranges. Reheat (do not boil), then put in a stone jar. Let ferment. Skim everyday for 6 or 7 weeks, removing fruit after 2 weeks. Put in sterile, sealed bottles.

By "blossoms", do you mean the yellow part only? Is it important to separate the adjacent green bits? (It looks like a lot of work!) An interesting fact about dandelions is that they are not native to north America. Colonists brought them here from Europe as a food source a few hundred years ago. Unfortunately, since then, we spend billions of dollars each year to eradicate these little "gifts" from our forefathers.

I’ve always said that the only reason dandelions are classed as a weed is that they are easy to grow. — Adam

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Irish Ale Yeast for IPA

admin — Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Well, the British Isles are just as close to Continental Europe, but you won’t find many Englishmen who consider themselves European! ;-}

But I find a lot of Englishmen who consider Ireland British Example: Graham Wheeler has a few Irish beer recipes in his book titled: "Brew Your Own British Real Ale". Great book BTW. Gregor

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But I find a lot of Englishmen who consider Ireland British

It’s not up for consideration. ben

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: the only British yeast I have at : hand is Wyeast Irish Ale. :

Well, the British Isles are just as close to Continental Europe, but you won’t find many Englishmen who consider themselves European! ;-} : I think an Irish ale yeast would be neutral enough to work fine for an : IPA, but I’ve had my best IPA results with Whitelabs California 001. I : think Wyeast has a similar one — 1057?

I use Irish ale yeast for most bitters, stouts and pale ales. It is more neutral than Scottish ale yeast which I also like in pale ales. I don’t use English varieties as they don’t appeal to me in general use. When I want a hoppy session or bitter with little fruitiness, I use Nottingham dry yeast. Very reliable, very clean flavour. Good luck! Kel

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: the only British yeast I have at : hand is Wyeast Irish Ale. :

But Ireland belongs geographically to the British islands. Learned that much in geography. Ale yeast doesn’t give a damn about politic or religious boarders, no? : I think an Irish ale yeast would be neutral enough to work fine for an : IPA, but I’ve had my best IPA results with Whitelabs California 001. I : think Wyeast has a similar one — 1057? I guess this is all in the taste of the beholder, because I like yeasts with some fruitiness in my IPA’s. But, my IPA’s are usually very British in Character (ie I use loads of British hops). I’ve had good success with 1968, and more recently I tried 1318 – it’s a fantastic IPA.

English IPAs with English hops (lots of hops! EKG is one of my favourite hops for this purpose) are really one of my favourite beers. I brewed them with WY #1028 and #1968 many times and liked both yeasts for it. I think the 1084 would be fine.

Think so too. Would have prefered #1968, but don’t have it on stock and I need to brew now, because it _must_ be ready for drinking by the end of April for the wedding party of a good friend. Will wash the yeast afterwards and repitch it into a stout, I am going to brew a week later. Thanks for the answers! Gregor – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Bill

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Fellow brewers, I need to brew an IPA next Saturday but the only British yeast I have at hand is Wyeast Irish Ale. What do you think? Is this yeast ok for an IPA too? I am pretty sure it is, but thought to ask the collective, before pitching… cheers Gregor

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Irish ale yeast is more for stouts and porters, I believe it is moderate attenuation and flocculation. I suppose it’s not ideal for IPA but shouldn’t be all that bad. I’d say go for it! ek – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fellow brewers, I need to brew an IPA next Saturday but the only British yeast I have at hand is Wyeast Irish Ale. What do you think? Is this yeast ok for an IPA too? I am pretty sure it is, but thought to ask the collective, before pitching… cheers Gregor

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the only British yeast I have at hand is Wyeast Irish Ale.

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: the only British yeast I have at : hand is Wyeast Irish Ale. :

Response:

Steeping specialty grains

admin — Fri, 01 Feb 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Daren and Garry: I ran across the following document a few years ago with some very detailed instructions for converting all grain recipes to extract and partial mash. http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf In this article (presented at the AHA National Homebrewers Conference in 1998) the author, Ken Schwartz, presents several lists of specialty grains and states which need to be mashed, which don’t, and also those that contain sufficient enzymes to convert themselves. I have used this as a guide when brewing extract and partial mash recipes, and also as an aide in my early all grain recipes. Based on the lists in the referenced document, the grains Garry talked about using either don’t require mashing (Crystal, Chocolate, and Black Patent), or contain sufficient enzymes to convert themselves (Munich and Vienna). By steeping for an hour at 150 with one quart of water per pound, Garry did a partial mash. Any grains that do not require mashing may be steeped. Those that require mashing may be done in a partial mash with enough base grains added to supply the enzymes needed for mashing. Happy Brewing! — Mark Recktenwald Stow, Ohio

Response:

Well I think that the definition also includes starch conversion. As I stated earlier, many folks that steep grains do so in the entire volume of water that they will boil – which is often 3 gallons or more. With that volume of water your enzymes will be very thin and won’t convert very well if at all before they become denatured.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steeping cracked Munich or Vienna at 150 F for an hour is almost the same thing as mashing them. No, it IS the same thing . I’m not completely convinced. What makes you state that so strongly? Because steeping at scacrification temperatures (and 150F certainly is that) for a lengthy period it time is the definition of mashing, I think. In any case, that’s how I mash. Well I think that the definition also includes starch conversion. As I stated earlier, many folks that steep grains do so in the entire volume of water that they will boil – which is often 3 gallons or more. With that volume of water your enzymes will be very thin and won’t convert very well if at all before they become denatured.

That is my thinking…. Thin mashes are generally in the greater than 2.5 qts/lb range. In most steeping situation, you are looking at 4 or more qts/lb depending upon the recipe and the brewer. Cheers, Mike

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I’ll buy that. Having never "steeped" before, I didn’t consider the thinness of the solution. Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steeping cracked Munich or Vienna at 150 F for an hour is almost the same thing as mashing them. No, it IS the same thing . I’m not completely convinced. What makes you state that so strongly? Because steeping at scacrification temperatures (and 150F certainly is that) for a lengthy period it time is the definition of mashing, I think. In any case, that’s how I mash.

As other’s have mentioned, it depends on what volume of water and amount of grain you are steeping with. I’m not sure if you’ll really get much conversion by steeping 1/4 lbs. of grain in 5 gallons of water at 150F, for example. Mashing could be defined more specifically as steeping in a thick water/grain ratio at Sacc. temperatures until conversion is (relatively) complete. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

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Steeping cracked Munich or Vienna at 150 F for an hour is almost the same thing as mashing them. No, it IS the same thing .

I’m not completely convinced. What makes you state that so strongly? Cheers, Mike

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Steeping cracked Munich or Vienna at 150 F for an hour is almost the same thing as mashing them. No, it IS the same thing . I’m not completely convinced. What makes you state that so strongly?

Because steeping at scacrification temperatures (and 150F certainly is that) for a lengthy period it time is the definition of mashing, I think. In any case, that’s how I mash. Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

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Steeping cracked Munich or Vienna at 150 F for an hour is almost the same thing as mashing them.

No, it IS the same thing . Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are some grains I’ve just started using. Should I be steeping or mashing? My most recent batch (Baltic Porter) used all the below except for the black patent. I did a long steep (almost an hour at 150) in not too much water (approx. quart per pound). Seems to have turned out OK so far (currently in a long secondary). Crystal Chocolate Black Patent Munich Vienna Steeping cracked Munich or Vienna at 150 F for an hour is almost the same thing as mashing them. They have enough diastatic power to convert their own starches.

That’s true if the mash is thick enough. But many brewers use their entire boil volume of 2-3+ gallons to steep 1lb of grain. This would thin out the enzymes too much for a good conversion.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that when AG brewers mash their grains the amount of water per lbs. of grains is critical to efficiency (I think I have that right?). When I steep specialty grains I’ve always put about two gallons of water in a pot, added one to two lbs. of grains in a steeping bag, and held it at 155^F for 30 minutes. Would I make better use of the grains if I used "X" amount of water per lb. of grain? If so how much water per lb. of grain would be best to use? I would say that your current technique is good, and you should go with it. The reason AG brewers use specific amounts of water is to control the enzyme activity in the mash. Specialty grains usually have no active enzymes, so this is not an issue.

I don’t brew extract but I would think that you should not use too much water when steeping in order to control the pH. If you dilute with too much water and the water is not soft, you may end up with a high pH that could extract tannins during steeping. Less water might keep the pH in the safe range.

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Here are some grains I’ve just started using. Should I be steeping or mashing? My most recent batch (Baltic Porter) used all the below except for the black patent. I did a long steep (almost an hour at 150) in not too much water (approx. quart per pound). Seems to have turned out OK so far (currently in a long secondary). Crystal Chocolate Black Patent Munich Vienna

Steeping cracked Munich or Vienna at 150 F for an hour is almost the same thing as mashing them. They have enough diastatic power to convert their own starches. ben

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Garry, the Munich and Vienna need to mashed, the others do not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here are some grains I’ve just started using. Should I be steeping or mashing? My most recent batch (Baltic Porter) used all the below except for the black patent. I did a long steep (almost an hour at 150) in not too much water (approx. quart per pound). Seems to have turned out OK so far (currently in a long secondary). Crystal Chocolate Black Patent Munich Vienna Garry

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There was an interesting conversation on Cara-pils recently that provided a variety of opinions on the grain.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=p… 943%24N8.7319805%40bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3De n %26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3D%2522the%2Bmysterious%2Bcarapils%2 5 22%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch I know. I started it. :-)

Don’t forget, I was there…. Cheers, Mike

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Yes. And your comments on the 20% utilization was consistent throughout. Makes sense to me.

There was an interesting conversation on Cara-pils recently that provided a variety of opinions on the grain.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=p… 943%24N8.7319805%40bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3De n %26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3D%2522the%2Bmysterious%2Bcarapils%2 5 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 22%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch I know. I started it. :-) Don’t forget, I was there…. Cheers, Mike

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There was an interesting conversation on Cara-pils recently that provided a variety of opinions on the grain. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=p… 943%24N8.7319805%40bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3De n %26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26q%3D%2522the%2Bmysterious%2Bcarapils%2 5 22%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch I know. I started it. :-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s try the reverse of your suggestion. You mention that some grains should be mashed and others can be steeped. is there a ‘rule of thumb’ to follow for knowing which way to go? It depends upon the malt, and to some extent the maltster… I tend to use Crystals, cara vienne and carapils but have also gone for the deeper roasts in my brown beer recipes like the chocolates and some of the other smoked grains. I prefer to be an extract ale brewer for the simplicity of it all (read: not much $$ for AG) but still strive to ‘be all I can be’. Your tips are appreciated. Ok, here is the skinny on just one you mentioned…CaraPils. If it comes from Cargill, it must be mashed, otherwise you are wasting your time steeping it in an extract recipe. You will at most get 20% extraction, and it really adds no color. Cheers, Mike

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If you can be more specific about what types of grains you are talking about, we can give you a better answer as to whether you need to steep them or mash them.

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Let’s try the reverse of your suggestion. You mention that some grains should be mashed and others can be steeped. is there a ‘rule of thumb’ to follow for knowing which way to go?

It depends upon the malt, and to some extent the maltster… I tend to use Crystals, cara vienne and carapils but have also gone for the deeper roasts in my brown beer recipes like the chocolates and some of the other smoked grains. I prefer to be an extract ale brewer for the simplicity of it all (read: not much $$ for AG) but still strive to ‘be all I can be’. Your tips are appreciated.

Ok, here is the skinny on just one you mentioned…CaraPils. If it comes from Cargill, it must be mashed, otherwise you are wasting your time steeping it in an extract recipe. You will at most get 20% extraction, and it really adds no color. Cheers, Mike

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John You were assisting on the question of steeping grains and what volume of water should be used… I’ve noticed that when AG brewers mash their grains the amount of water per lbs. of grains is critical to efficiency (I think I have that right?). When If you can be more specific about what types of grains you are talking about, we can give you a better answer as to whether you need to steep them or mash them. John.

Let’s try the reverse of your suggestion. You mention that some grains should be mashed and others can be steeped. is there a ‘rule of thumb’ to follow for knowing which way to go? I tend to use Crystals, cara vienne and carapils but have also gone for the deeper roasts in my brown beer recipes like the chocolates and some of the other smoked grains. I prefer to be an extract ale brewer for the simplicity of it all (read: not much $$ for AG) but still strive to ‘be all I can be’. Your tips are appreciated. Daren Perrero

Response:

I’ve noticed that when AG brewers mash their grains the amount of water per lbs. of grains is critical to efficiency (I think I have that right?). When I steep specialty grains I’ve always put about two gallons of water in a pot, added one to two lbs. of grains in a steeping bag, and held it at 155^F for 30 minutes. Would I make better use of the grains if I used "X" amount of water per lb. of grain? If so how much water per lb. of grain would be best to use?

Normal AG mashing is about 1-2 quarts per pound… but since you’re just steeping speciality grains… I dont think it matters that much.

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Thanks for the help, I didn’t think it would matter – never seen anything on it before, but it tweaked my curiosity when I began looking at AG brewing. Buck

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I’ve noticed that when AG brewers mash their grains the amount of water per lbs. of grains is critical to efficiency (I think I have that right?). When

It’s not critical that you hit an exact ratio, there is some leeway involved. I steep specialty grains I’ve always put about two gallons of water in a pot, added one to two lbs. of grains in a steeping bag, and held it at 155^F for 30 minutes. Would I make better use of the grains if I used "X" amount of water per lb. of grain? If so how much water per lb. of grain would be best to use?

Steeping and mashing are two *very* different things. If you are steeping grains then it doesn’t make much difference how much water (within reason) you use, and the temperatures you hit are not as critical. Some grains already have had their starches converted to sugar during the processing stage, so all you really need to do is soak them in water to leech the sugars out. This is steeping. Other grains are mostly starches and enzymes, which require an activation period so that the enzymes can turn the starches into sugars. This is mashing. The amount of water you use during a mash determines how well the enzymes (which typically are floating free in the liquid) can come into contact with the starches in the grain and do their job. Too much water and the enzymes are floating around without touching much grain. Too little water and they have a hard time soaking into the grains. If you’re steeping, then all this is irrelevant as the grains contain mostly sugar to start with. If you can be more specific about what types of grains you are talking about, we can give you a better answer as to whether you need to steep them or mash them. John. — *** John P. Kolesar *** *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

Response:

I would say that your current technique is good, and you should go with it. The reason AG brewers use specific amounts of water is to control the enzyme activity in the mash. Specialty grains usually have no active enzymes, so this is not an issue. You might be able to get slightly more extraction by steeping in more water, but that effect might not be noticeable. I’ve generally varied the time of steeping, and the amount of agitation I give the grains. I once tried to get all of the roasted-barley flavor out of the grain bag in an extract stout, by steeping for 30-45 minutes at 160-170 F, and constantly agitating the bag for that time. I got soooo much of the flavor that time, that it took nearly three months to mellow out. The next batch, I didn’t agitate, and didn’t let it steep for as long. It took nearly as long for the hop flavor to mellow so I could taste the roasted barley…. — Chris Mikkelson | Another couple of days in this place, and I’d start | top of a mountain contemplating a tangerine for the | rest of my life. — Tony Bourdain

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That should be about 4 1/2 lbs of DME in 5 gallons water. What does a gallon of DME weigh?

I don’t have a gallon of DME on hand; anyone who does want to weigh it? I -do- have LME on hand; I haven’t weighed it, but I figure it’s well over 8 lbs/gallon; probably close to honey, which is about 12 lbs/gallon. The way I’m thinking, I’m going to make 5 gallons with the equivalent of 10 lbs of extract. 2 lbs/gallon = .25 lbs/pint. If LME is 12 lbs/gallon, .25 lbs = 1/3 cup/pint.

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What if the starter has a _higher_ OG than the wort? The manager at my local brew shop said a higher OG starter would mean a longer time at high karousen (sp?) which would mean a better chance of pitching active yeast to the wort.

Response:

says… Your starter should the same, or extremely close, to the OG of your batch. When you put together a starter, the yeast will be accustomed to the sugar/water ratio (gravity). If its a low OG starter but a high OG beer, the yeast will be too weak and will take longer to ferment.

I disagree. Yeast from high gravity fermentations tend to be weaker than those from moderate gravities. The goal in making a starter is to increase the cell count and produce the healthiest cells possible. While there is some debate about what the optimum gravity is, I think most folks would agree that you won’t go wrong if you keep your starters at ~ 1.040.

Response:

When you put together a starter, the yeast will be accustomed to the sugar/water ratio (gravity). If its a low OG starter but a high OG beer, the yeast will be too weak and will take longer to ferment. What if the starter has a _higher_ OG than the wort? The manager at my local brew shop said a higher OG starter would mean a longer time at high karousen (sp?) which would mean a better chance of pitching active yeast to the wort.

If I had to choose, I would choose having "stronger" yeast (high OG starter) than a "weaker" yeast (lower OG starter). But I’ve been told that yeast can be very picky and its best to have the OG’s the same so they yeast will already be accustomed to the mix.

Response:

A 4 – 1 ratio of water to extract giving an OG of 1.040????? That’s like using a gallon of extract to make a 4 – 5 gallon batch. That’s a lot of malt! Could someone -please- explain why such a ratio would result in an OG appropriate for a yeast starter?

1/2 cup to a pint is what I use too. But that’s about the only time I use volume for anything but water. Everything else I weigh. That should be about 4 1/2 lbs of DME in 5 gallons water. What does a gallon of DME weigh? — my address is spam blocked delete .no.spam to reply

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Your starter should the same, or extremely close, to the OG of your batch. When you put together a starter, the yeast will be accustomed to the sugar/water ratio (gravity). If its a low OG starter but a high OG beer, the yeast will be too weak and will take longer to ferment. If you do all grain brewing, just put a little of it (1/2 gal or so) aside to use as a starter. Of course, it you’re really wanna go all out, put a lil more aside to prime your beer when you bottle it.

Response:

One pound of Liquid Extract gives 36 points per gallon. Dry Extract gives 44. If you’re looking for a 1.040 starter (which is a good average number), you’ll need 40/36 x 16/128 = 0.14 lb or 63g of LME. for DME it’s 40/44 x 16/128 = .11 lb or 52g DME. I don’t know the cup weights but I’m sure all three have put you in the ballpark and will work. If it comes out 1.030 or 1.050 isn’t that big of a deal. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks, I’ve brewed around a dozen batches, but never made a yeast starter before. I’ve looked for advice regarding the starter solution. I’ve received consistant advice from three different sources which doesn’t make sense to me. I’m hoping someone here can enlighten me. John Palmer’s "How to Brew" describes making a yeast starter solution with an OG of 1.040 with a half cup DME and 2 cups water. The manager at a FLBS recommended a cup of LME and 2 cups water, as I will be making a big beer (9.5 lbs LME and 1.5 lbs grain for 5 gallons). If that isn’t enough, the friggen wyeast packet says 1/3 – 1/2 cup to 2 cups water gives an OG of 1.020 – 1.040. I should be convinced. I am WAY confused! A 4 – 1 ratio of water to extract giving an OG of 1.040????? That’s like using a gallon of extract to make a 4 – 5 gallon batch. That’s a lot of malt! Could someone -please- explain why such a ratio would result in an OG appropriate for a yeast starter?

Response:

Hi folks, I’ve brewed around a dozen batches, but never made a yeast starter before. I’ve looked for advice regarding the starter solution. I’ve received consistant advice from three different sources which doesn’t make sense to me. I’m hoping someone here can enlighten me. John Palmer’s "How to Brew" describes making a yeast starter solution with an OG of 1.040 with a half cup DME and 2 cups water. The manager at a FLBS recommended a cup of LME and 2 cups water, as I will be making a big beer (9.5 lbs LME and 1.5 lbs grain for 5 gallons). If that isn’t enough, the friggen wyeast packet says 1/3 – 1/2 cup to 2 cups water gives an OG of 1.020 – 1.040. I should be convinced. I am WAY confused! A 4 – 1 ratio of water to extract giving an OG of 1.040????? That’s like using a gallon of extract to make a 4 – 5 gallon batch. That’s a lot of malt! Could someone -please- explain why such a ratio would result in an OG appropriate for a yeast starter?

Response:

The recipe calls for a pound of Munich and .25lb of Crystal (quite tasty to munch on if might say so). Is this the usual deal of steeping at 155 degrees for half an hour?

Steeping them at 155F for 30 minutes will work fine. Actually you’ll be mashing the Munich at that temperature (converting starch to sugar). Crystal is already mashed, so you’ll just be extracting its sugars. Don’t use too much water, one quart per pound of grain is typical. Assume you’ll be using a kitchen strainer. Have an additional quart of water at 155 or so (under 170F is actually the real limit) to rinse the strained grains and get additional sugars. The run off should be clear. Add to your extract boil. — Bob Scott Posted with Mozilla running on Linux. Certified MS virus free!

Response:

Hi Trint, When you steep Munich malt, you aren’t. You are mashing it in order for the starches in the malt to be converted by the enzymes in the malt, into fermentable sugars. (The crystal is already converted during production) So, to mash Munich malt and to best achieve the starch conversion, you can’t be as loose with the conditions as you typically are when steeping. You want to have the water to grain ratio between 1-2 quarts per pound, otherwise pH and dilution of the enzymes will discourage conversion. So, if you want to proceed with this steep, I suggest you put the crushed grain in a grain bag and dunk it in a sauce pan on the stove with about 2 quarts of water in it. Steep it at 155F for a half hour and then drain and squeeze it. Pour that wort into your brew pot and heat up another quart of water and dunk the bag in again, let it set a couple minutes and squeeze and add that wort to your brewpot. This is, in essence, batch sparging of this small amount of malt from a mini mash. Have Fun, Good Brewing, — John Palmer How To Brew – the online book http://www.howtobrew.com (free, all rights reserved) Homepage: http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, I’ll be doing a Kolsch (is this pronounced like it is written?) tomorrow as only my 2nd batch ever. I’ve done specialty grains in my first batch and everything went smoothly, but this time I’ll be following a recipe as opposed to using a kit, so I want to make sure I’m doing everything perfect. The recipe calls for a pound of Munich and .25lb of Crystal (quite tasty to munch on if might say so). Is this the usual deal of steeping at 155 degrees for half an hour? Are there any other preparations I should be making? If anybody wants to know this is a recipe from my "Homebrewing for Dummies" book, which is actually an excellent resource. It says that it won 2nd place in the AHA nationals, though it doesn’t state which year, so I’m eager to get things going. Thanks, –Trint Homewood College Student, Future Rock and Roll Star and all around nice guy

Response:

Hello folks, I’ll be doing a Kolsch (is this pronounced like it is written?) tomorrow as only my 2nd batch ever. I’ve done specialty grains in my first batch and everything went smoothly, but this time I’ll be following a recipe as opposed to using a kit, so I want to make sure I’m doing everything perfect. The recipe calls for a pound of Munich and .25lb of Crystal (quite tasty to munch on if might say so). Is this the usual deal of steeping at 155 degrees for half an hour? Are there any other preparations I should be making? If anybody wants to know this is a recipe from my "Homebrewing for Dummies" book, which is actually an excellent resource. It says that it won 2nd place in the AHA nationals, though it doesn’t state which year, so I’m eager to get things going. Thanks, –Trint Homewood College Student, Future Rock and Roll Star and all around nice guy

Response:

Munich needs to be mashed. It has enough power to convert itself and the crystal is already converted. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello folks, I’ll be doing a Kolsch (is this pronounced like it is written?) tomorrow as only my 2nd batch ever. I’ve done specialty grains in my first batch and everything went smoothly, but this time I’ll be following a recipe as opposed to using a kit, so I want to make sure I’m doing everything perfect. The recipe calls for a pound of Munich and .25lb of Crystal (quite tasty to munch on if might say so). Is this the usual deal of steeping at 155 degrees for half an hour? Are there any other preparations I should be making? If anybody wants to know this is a recipe from my "Homebrewing for Dummies" book, which is actually an excellent resource. It says that it won 2nd place in the AHA nationals, though it doesn’t state which year, so I’m eager to get things going. Thanks, –Trint Homewood College Student, Future Rock and Roll Star and all around nice guy

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Response:

1940s-50s Japanese beer?

admin — Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My wife and I thought we’d give my father-in-law a nice gift. He’s a Korean War vet and is wanting the same kind of beer they used to drink in 1950 in Korea. He says it was Japanese and was brewed with rice. He says he drinks Budweiser nowadays since it’s as close as he can get to that original flavor. Are there any extract or partial recipe ideas for this… or at least recommendations on a style? I thought I’d ask in case the "modern" Japanese brands aren’t very accurate. Thanks! JJM

Response:

I aslo spent some time in Japan while in the service but during the 80’s. There are a few brands available most notably Asahi or Saporo, but in the 80’s the Japanese also started to develop dry beers. These are beers that dont have any after taste or malty flavor. Now whether or not these compare to the beers of the 50’s I cant say. You could try making your own recipes and substitute some if not most of the grain for rice. Never really thought about it though. Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I thought we’d give my father-in-law a nice gift. He’s a Korean War vet and is wanting the same kind of beer they used to drink in 1950 in Korea. He says it was Japanese and was brewed with rice. He says he drinks Budweiser nowadays since it’s as close as he can get to that original flavor. Are there any extract or partial recipe ideas for this… or at least recommendations on a style? I thought I’d ask in case the "modern" Japanese brands aren’t very accurate. Thanks! JJM

Response:

Thanks for your thoughts! I’ve found incredibly little on Japanese beer recipes on the web and in newsgroup archives, even for Asahi and Kirin, so I’ve devised the following recipe. I’m assuming this is post-WWII Japan where barley would be too expensive to use liberally in cheap beers. 3# light DME 2# rice syrup 1/2# dark brown sugar 2 oz Saaz [bittering] 1 oz Saaz [flavor] OG=1.045 FG=1.010 SRM=6.49 IBU=27.7 ABV=4.6% JJM