Brewing Master

Question:

These are burning questions that could greatly effect the outcome of my next batch. Thanks in advance for any help. (email is fine too) I want to brew a clone of a commercial beer that happens to be bottle conditioned. So, I thought I might be able to harvest the yeast from purchased bottles of the beer. I’ve read about how to do this, culturing the yeast into a larger amount before pitching, but I wonder if I can just do this (I’m lazy and worried that I might contaminate the culture): Pour most of the contents of a couple bottles of the beer into a large mug for consumption. Then shake the remaining contents, yeast sediment and a little beer, into a solution, then pour directly into my waiting wort? Can this work?  Is two bottles enough or would I be forced to drink more (oh dang)? Also, my recipe calls for a partial mash of certain grains.  I see these malts available as Base Malts and as Specialty Grains (pre-processed, no enzymes). Would steeping the same quantity of the specialty grains yield the same results as partial mashing the base malts? -todd

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -These are burning questions that could greatly effect the outcome of my next batch. Thanks in advance for any help. (email is fine too) I want to brew a clone of a commercial beer that happens to be bottle conditioned. So, I thought I might be able to harvest the yeast from purchased bottles of the beer. I’ve read about how to do this, culturing the yeast into a larger amount before pitching, but I wonder if I can just do this (I’m lazy and worried that I might contaminate the culture): Pour most of the contents of a couple bottles of the beer into a large mug for consumption. Then shake the remaining contents, yeast sediment and a little beer, into a solution, then pour directly into my waiting wort? Can this work?  Is two bottles enough or would I be forced to drink more (oh dang)?

First of all you need to be aware that many bottle conditioned beers use a different yeast for conditioning than for the main ferment. Post the beer that you are considering and maybe someone here will know what yeast is used. If you end up using the yeast from a bottle condioned beer, you should use the yeast to make a starter. The amount of yeast in 2 bottles is not nearly enough for a healthy ferment. Also, my recipe calls for a partial mash of certain grains.  I see these malts available as Base Malts and as Specialty Grains (pre-processed, no enzymes). Would steeping the same quantity of the specialty grains yield the same results as partial mashing the base malts?

No, it is not the same. Any malt that needs to be mashed should not be steeped. To avoid any confusion, let us know what grains you’re talking about so we can comment on how to proceed.

Response:

Your theory is correct,  with one exception….some beers are conditioned with a different yeast then they are primarily fermented with.  so if you want to create a clone of the beer your using you may not get the yeast you expect. I am not really sure why it is changed to a different strain for bottle conditioning other than prolly the bottled yeast has different/ better characteristics for co2 production and the fact that the manufacturers do not want you to make a clone of their brew. hope this helps Tal McMahon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These are burning questions that could greatly effect the outcome of my next batch. Thanks in advance for any help. (email is fine too) I want to brew a clone of a commercial beer that happens to be bottle conditioned. So, I thought I might be able to harvest the yeast from purchased bottles of the beer. I’ve read about how to do this, culturing the yeast into a larger amount before pitching, but I wonder if I can just do this (I’m lazy and worried that I might contaminate the culture): Pour most of the contents of a couple bottles of the beer into a large mug for consumption. Then shake the remaining contents, yeast sediment and a little beer, into a solution, then pour directly into my waiting wort? Can this work?  Is two bottles enough or would I be forced to drink more (oh dang)? Also, my recipe calls for a partial mash of certain grains.  I see these malts available as Base Malts and as Specialty Grains (pre-processed, no enzymes). Would steeping the same quantity of the specialty grains yield the same results as partial mashing the base malts? -todd

Response:

The beer is Bell’s Oberon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… These are burning questions that could greatly effect the outcome of my next batch. Thanks in advance for any help. (email is fine too) I want to brew a clone of a commercial beer that happens to be bottle conditioned. So, I thought I might be able to harvest the yeast from purchased bottles of the beer. I’ve read about how to do this, culturing the yeast into a larger amount before pitching, but I wonder if I can just do this (I’m lazy and worried that I might contaminate the culture): Pour most of the contents of a couple bottles of the beer into a large mug for consumption. Then shake the remaining contents, yeast sediment and a little beer, into a solution, then pour directly into my waiting wort? Can this work?  Is two bottles enough or would I be forced to drink more (oh dang)? First of all you need to be aware that many bottle conditioned beers use a different yeast for conditioning than for the main ferment. Post the beer that you are considering and maybe someone here will know what yeast is used. If you end up using the yeast from a bottle condioned beer, you should use the yeast to make a starter. The amount of yeast in 2 bottles is not nearly enough for a healthy ferment. Also, my recipe calls for a partial mash of certain grains.  I see these malts available as Base Malts and as Specialty Grains (pre-processed, no enzymes). Would steeping the same quantity of the specialty grains yield the same results as partial mashing the base malts? No, it is not the same. Any malt that needs to be mashed should not be steeped. To avoid any confusion, let us know what grains you’re talking about so we can comment on how to proceed.

Response:

And the grains are: dextrin caravienne I have seen these in specialty grain and base malt form. I understand that each type requires different methods to get out of them what you need, my question is, how can I interchange between the two forms in a recipe. My recipe calls for mashing 1/4 lb dextrin malt.  I found the dextrin as a specialty grain for steeping…how do I convert over to use the specialty grain rather than the base malt that needs mashing?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… These are burning questions that could greatly effect the outcome of my next batch. Thanks in advance for any help. (email is fine too) I want to brew a clone of a commercial beer that happens to be bottle conditioned. So, I thought I might be able to harvest the yeast from purchased bottles of the beer. I’ve read about how to do this, culturing the yeast into a larger amount before pitching, but I wonder if I can just do this (I’m lazy and worried that I might contaminate the culture): Pour most of the contents of a couple bottles of the beer into a large mug for consumption. Then shake the remaining contents, yeast sediment and a little beer, into a solution, then pour directly into my waiting wort? Can this work?  Is two bottles enough or would I be forced to drink more (oh dang)? First of all you need to be aware that many bottle conditioned beers use a different yeast for conditioning than for the main ferment. Post the beer that you are considering and maybe someone here will know what yeast is used. If you end up using the yeast from a bottle condioned beer, you should use the yeast to make a starter. The amount of yeast in 2 bottles is not nearly enough for a healthy ferment. Also, my recipe calls for a partial mash of certain grains.  I see these malts available as Base Malts and as Specialty Grains (pre-processed, no enzymes). Would steeping the same quantity of the specialty grains yield the same results as partial mashing the base malts? No, it is not the same. Any malt that needs to be mashed should not be steeped. To avoid any confusion, let us know what grains you’re talking about so we can comment on how to proceed.

Response:

I am not really sure why it is changed to a different strain for bottle conditioning other than prolly the bottled yeast has different/ better characteristics for co2 production and the fact that the manufacturers do not want you to make a clone of their brew.

That latter is the reason. — [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al – rukbat at optonline dot net

Response:

I am not really sure why it is changed to a different strain for bottle conditioning other than prolly the bottled yeast has different/ better characteristics for co2 production and the fact that the manufacturers do not want you to make a clone of their brew. That latter is the reason.

In some cases the breweries are looking to preserve their strain in others, they are looking for a neutral yeast just for carbonation and do not want to dramatically change the flavor profile they created in the original fermentation.  A good example of the second is Victory’s Golden Monkey. Cheers, Mike

Response:

It may simply be that they choose a yeast strain which stays in the bottle when it is poured and doesn’t come gushing up when the bottle is opened.

Response:

I emailed the head brewer at Bell’s and he confirmed for me that the yeast used in bottling Oberon is the same used in it’s fermentation, so I can just culture me up some when I get my hands on some of the beer.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may simply be that they choose a yeast strain which stays in the bottle when it is poured and doesn’t come gushing up when the bottle is opened.

Response:

Anybody know whether Chimay conditions with the same yeast they brew with? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I emailed the head brewer at Bell’s and he confirmed for me that the yeast used in bottling Oberon is the same used in it’s fermentation, so I can just culture me up some when I get my hands on some of the beer. It may simply be that they choose a yeast strain which stays in the bottle when it is poured and doesn’t come gushing up when the bottle is opened.

Response:

Word is they do, and my experience backs that up.  I’ve cultured and used the Chimay Red yeast several times with great results.  For some reason, when I’ve tried the blue or white, I haven’t had much luck getting the yeast to take off.  Since they’re all the same yeast, I just go for what works.         ——Denny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know whether Chimay conditions with the same yeast they brew with?

Response:

I emailed the head brewer at Bell’s and he confirmed for me that the yeast used in bottling Oberon is the same used in it’s fermentation, so I can just culture me up some when I get my hands on some of the beer. It may simply be that they choose a yeast strain which stays in the bottle when it is poured and doesn’t come gushing up when the bottle is opened.

That’s good to know.  There’s a swedish fellow that maintains a pretty extensive list of bottle conditioned beers, and what strain is in them.  Here’s what he says about Bells (Kalamazoo Brewing Company): Kalamazoo Brewing (Bells) General – Said to use the same yeast strain in all their beers. {1} All bottle conditioned? Amber Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned. Same as Wyeast 1056/YeastLab A02 American Ale? {1} Very clean flavour. Very high flocculation. Pale Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned, strain? Very low flocculation. Third Coast Old Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned, strain? These are all based on only one report, but I’ll send your info on to him.  His site is at: http://www.nada.kth.se/~alun/Beer/Bottle-Yeasts/ Lots of good information. Regards, Mike Sharp

Response:

It just so happens that I decided to go ahead and try a wyeast yeast this go around and culture the real yeast later with the same recipe as a sort of experiment. Why wait?  Oberon is seasonal May-September, and I wanna brew NOW!  :^) So I surfed the Wyeast page, read the recommendations, and came up with this list of yeasts to look for based on my memory of what Oberon tastes like from a long time ago: 1272 American Ale II 1028 London Ale 1056 Americal Ale Looks like I had the right one on my list, just in the wrong order! I can’t access that page…I can get to the http://www.nada.kth.se page. From there I used their search to find "alun" which gave me a link to Alun’s Beer Page, but when I click it I get " Forbidden You don’t have permission to access /~alun/Beer/ on this server." Bummer…If you can get to this yeast page, could you either post or email That would be great! Gotta love the wealth of information on the internet! Thanks All -todd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I emailed the head brewer at Bell’s and he confirmed for me that the yeast used in bottling Oberon is the same used in it’s fermentation, so I can just culture me up some when I get my hands on some of the beer. It may simply be that they choose a yeast strain which stays in the bottle when it is poured and doesn’t come gushing up when the bottle is opened. That’s good to know.  There’s a swedish fellow that maintains a pretty extensive list of bottle conditioned beers, and what strain is in them.  Here’s what he says about Bells (Kalamazoo Brewing Company): Kalamazoo Brewing (Bells) General – Said to use the same yeast strain in all their beers. {1} All bottle conditioned? Amber Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned. Same as Wyeast 1056/YeastLab A02 American Ale? {1} Very clean flavour. Very high flocculation. Pale Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned, strain? Very low flocculation. Third Coast Old Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned, strain? These are all based on only one report, but I’ll send your info on to him.  His site is at: http://www.nada.kth.se/~alun/Beer/Bottle-Yeasts/ Lots of good information. Regards, Mike Sharp

Response:

Nevermind on the Alun Yeast page…I finally got it with this address: http://www.nada.kth.se/~alun/Beer/Bottle-Yeasts/ Which appears to be the same address as you posted… But I had to get to it through the search facility….hmm.

My emails to him bounced, so I presume he finished his doctoral work, and has no time for brewing these days.  I’ve converted his data into an XML file, and am going to put it online so that it can be updatable.  Seems a shame to waste all that good information. Hopefully, he’ll see the page someday, and give his permission…. I’ll let you all know when I have it done. Regards, Mike Sharp

Response:

Nevermind on the Alun Yeast page…I finally got it with this address: http://www.nada.kth.se/~alun/Beer/Bottle-Yeasts/ Which appears to be the same address as you posted… But I had to get to it through the search facility….hmm.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I emailed the head brewer at Bell’s and he confirmed for me that the yeast used in bottling Oberon is the same used in it’s fermentation, so I can just culture me up some when I get my hands on some of the beer. It may simply be that they choose a yeast strain which stays in the bottle when it is poured and doesn’t come gushing up when the bottle is opened. That’s good to know.  There’s a swedish fellow that maintains a pretty extensive list of bottle conditioned beers, and what strain is in them.  Here’s what he says about Bells (Kalamazoo Brewing Company): Kalamazoo Brewing (Bells) General – Said to use the same yeast strain in all their beers. {1} All bottle conditioned? Amber Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned. Same as Wyeast 1056/YeastLab A02 American Ale? {1} Very clean flavour. Very high flocculation. Pale Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned, strain? Very low flocculation. Third Coast Old Ale – {1} Bottle conditioned, strain? These are all based on only one report, but I’ll send your info on to him.  His site is at: http://www.nada.kth.se/~alun/Beer/Bottle-Yeasts/ Lots of good information. Regards, Mike Sharp

Response:

Question:

While it’s not a brewpub or in Pittsburgh, I’d advise you to drink all the Victory Brewing beer you can get your hands on…Hop Devil, Prima Pils, Golden Mokey, lots of others.  Fantastic beers, just voted world’s best brewery by Malt Advocate magazine.  I get assorted cases shipped out to Oregon twice a year and I _still_ horde it!

My sister lives about a fifteen-minute drive away from Victory. During our visit at Christmastime, we had lunch there, and the three beers I tried were good to excellent (the bitter and the pale ale were excellent; the barleywine was good). I can also recommend their root beer as excellent. Doug

Response:

Denny, we need to get a local distributor to get some of the Victory beers out here.  While Oregon is Beer Nirvana, we are definitely short on good lagers. They can throw in some Hop Devil while they’re at it. What’s a good day next week to venture down your way Denny? I need to start making my schedule up. Hopefully, not too early in the week. Burp, -Dan

Response:

RE: Pittsburgh Brewpubs Penn Brewing – nice German restaurant and German-style beers. Casual atmosphere Church Brew Works – eclectic menu (buffalo meatloaf, ostrich perogies, etc.) and decent beers. Ya gotta go at least once for the atmosphere. Usually have something on cask and a special/seasonal brew or two. Valhalla – my favorite of the brewpubs for food, artsy/jazzy atmosphere, decent beers, occasionally most excellent. Foundry Ale Works – only ate there once. It was OK. Nice range of beers with something on cask all the time (IPA or ESB it seems). Mad Mex (near Pitt campus) – good Mexican, with a nice range of imports and micros on tap/bottle. Sharp Edge Beer Emporium – great selection of Belgian beers, with good bar food (pizza, burgers, etc.). Fancier stuff on the menu, but never had it. It’s an aging neighborhood bar with a killer beer selection. John Harvards (Monroeville, east of Pgh) – nice enough menu with a very nice range of beers. I’m pretty impressed with the brewer. The specialties/seasonals are always worth the trip. Always something on cask too. Red Star (Greensburg, one hour east of Pgh on Rt. 30) – converted train station. Recently changed chef’s. I liked the old guy and his menu better. Decent beers. If you go to a show at the Palace theatre, this is the spot to have dinner before the show… D’s Six Packs and Dogs (Regent Square) – great dogs and hot sausage, cheese steaks and kielbasa. 6 usually nice beers on tap (rotates constantly) with 500+ more in the "beer cave" (warm) and several dozen good micros in the coolers. They even have good Belgians (including Westvletern 12) sitting around. There are some other good beer bars (Harris Grill, Fatheads, Kiotos come to mind), but not sure what their dining options are…. Hope this helps… Garry

Response:

While it’s not a brewpub or in Pittsburgh, I’d advise you to drink all the Victory Brewing beer you can get your hands on…Hop Devil, Prima Pils, Golden Mokey, lots of others.  Fantastic beers, just voted world’s best brewery by Malt Advocate magazine.  I get assorted cases shipped out to Oregon twice a year and I _still_ horde it! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all. Sometime in the coming months I’ll be visiting  afriend in Pittsburgh. Since I"ll only be there four days, I don’t think I can expect her to want to go to a different brewery for dinner every day So I’m looking to find the best one…maybe two There were somewheres around 6 I found on the web in and immediately around Pit. Thanks! Erik "There is an ancient Celtic axiom that says, Good people drink good beer. Which is true, then as now. Just look around you in any public barroom and you will quickly see: Bad people drink bad beer. Think about it."

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Hey all. Sometime in the coming months I’ll be visiting  afriend in Pittsburgh. Since I"ll only be there four days, I don’t think I can expect her to want to go to a different brewery for dinner every day So I’m looking to find the best one…maybe two There were somewheres around 6 I found on the web in and immediately around Pit. Thanks! Erik

A friend of mine who lives in Pittsburgh took me to Church Brew Works. Good food, good beer, and a rather unique atmosphere (as the name implies, it’s a church converted to a brew pub). http://www.churchbrew.com/ Steve

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In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all. Sometime in the coming months I’ll be visiting  afriend in Pittsburgh. Since I"ll only be there four days, I don’t think I can expect her to want to go to a different brewery for dinner every day So I’m looking to find the best one…maybe two There were somewheres around 6 I found on the web in and immediately around Pit. Thanks! Erik A friend of mine who lives in Pittsburgh took me to Church Brew Works. Good food, good beer, and a rather unique atmosphere (as the name implies, it’s a church converted to a brew pub). http://www.churchbrew.com/

I second the Church Brew Works. I moved from the ‘burgh in ‘98, but it was always one of my favorite brewpubs. Great beer and the food is fabulous (the pierogie pizza is to die for). I’d say the must see is Penn Brewing. They won a gold at last year’s Great American Beer Festical. A very ‘German’ feeling to the place; I think they even follow the German beer purity laws. http://www.pennbrew.com/ There was a place (not sure if it’s still there) in the Strip District called Valhala; the decor and atmosphere was very cutting edge and well done, but I found the beer underwhelming. Things may have changed since then.

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Thanks for the tip. I actually saw Church Brewing on the net, and it looks like a really cool atmosphere. I’ll add that and Penn to my list! Erik

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all. Sometime in the coming months I’ll be visiting  afriend in Pittsburgh. Since I"ll only be there four days, I don’t think I can expect her to want to go to a different brewery for dinner every day So I’m looking to find the best one…maybe two There were somewheres around 6 I found on the web in and immediately around Pit. Thanks! Erik A friend of mine who lives in Pittsburgh took me to Church Brew Works. Good food, good beer, and a rather unique atmosphere (as the name implies, it’s a church converted to a brew pub). http://www.churchbrew.com/ Steve

Response:

Hey all. Sometime in the coming months I’ll be visiting  afriend in Pittsburgh. Since I"ll only be there four days, I don’t think I can expect her to want to go to a different brewery for dinner every day So I’m looking to find the best one…maybe two There were somewheres around 6 I found on the web in and immediately around Pit. Thanks! Erik "There is an ancient Celtic axiom that says, Good people drink good beer. Which is true, then as now. Just look around you in any public barroom and you will quickly see: Bad people drink bad beer. Think about it."

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Question:

I am interested in brewing a rasberry brew but do not want to spend the money on the fruit.  I have seen Hoptech’s flavoring(s) and wonder if they are any good.  How much do I use out of the 4oz?  Is there a conversion factor? i.e. if the recipe calls for 4 qts of fresh berries, how much of the hoptech do I use?                                                 Thx in advance                                                 Jeff T/ e

Response:

Well, I don’t know about putting in the whole bottle. I usually put in about an ounce for a five gallon barrel.  Perhaps if you put in two ounces, it would be ok…but any more than that would be way too much fruit flavor, IMHO. Try using an eyedropper to manually adjust a few bottles to your taste.   And have a blast setting up the bottles for a taste-test with a few good friends.  Five drops in one bottle, ten in another, two in a few…. Brewfully yours, Jeff Rosenberg

Response:

I am interested in brewing a rasberry brew but do not want to spend the money on the fruit.  I have seen Hoptech’s flavoring(s) and wonder if they are any good.  How much do I use out of the 4oz?  Is there a conversion factor? i.e. if the recipe calls for 4 qts of fresh berries, how much of the hoptech do I use?                                            Thx in advance                                            Jeff T/ e

Hi Jeff,  The guy at my local store, when posed with the same question told me to pour the whole 4 oz. bottle of Raspberry Wine Flavoring into the beer, just before bottling….Haven’t tried yet, got a week left in fermentation…..Good Luck!!!

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Anyone tried the raspberry flavoring available in most homebrew shops? Does it taste good? Smell like raspberries? Could it pass for real raspberries? How much did you use for what amount of beer/cider?

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Anyone tried the raspberry flavoring available in most homebrew shops? Does it taste good? Smell like raspberries? Could it pass for real raspberries? How much did you use for what amount of beer/cider?

I have used Apricot with good results.  Be sure the product you might get is unsweetened. Cheers, Mike

Response:

Tried twice with the flavoring in the brew shops. Use 1 bottle per 5 gallons in one and two bottles in another batch. Neither gave me any taste of raspberrys in the finished product. Put together a recipe using 4# of fresh berries and this has good taste, lingers in mouth nice. I suggest next year as the fruit seasons come on use the fresh fruit. I made a cherry, apple, blackberry, raspberry, and cranberry that way, all turned out good.

Response:

Well I have used Oregon raspberry puree with good results. The problem is I got sick a few weeks ago right when I was going to add the puree but didn’t feel like messing with the fermenters with all the germs coming off of me. Now it’s a bit too late to add the puree and still have it ready when I need it. Maybe there is a difference in brand between what you used and what MDixon used. What brand was it?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tried twice with the flavoring in the brew shops. Use 1 bottle per 5 gallons in one and two bottles in another batch. Neither gave me any taste of raspberrys in the finished product. Put together a recipe using 4# of fresh berries and this has good taste, lingers in mouth nice. I suggest next year as the fruit seasons come on use the fresh fruit. I made a cherry, apple, blackberry, raspberry, and cranberry that way, all turned out good.

Response:

Well I have used Oregon raspberry puree with good results. The problem is I got sick a few weeks ago right when I was going to add the puree but didn’t feel like messing with the fermenters with all the germs coming off of me. Now it’s a bit too late to add the puree and still have it ready when I need it. Maybe there is a difference in brand between what you used and what MDixon used. What brand was it?

I never used Raspberry, mine was Apricot, but the brand was from www.williamsbrewing.com I have had their raspberry in a wheat beer, and it was fine. Cheers, Mike

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I experimented with the Raspberry extract juice that St Pats sells (NAJASCYYY). I  poured in a shot-glass of it into my 5 gallon Secondary fermenter full of Porter, about three days before I planned on bottling it (I figured that the three days would ensure an uniform dispersal). During bottling, I had a taste of the finished product (as finished as warm, flat, young beer can be, that is!), and I thought that I may have been onto to something interesting, with some aging…. However, 5 weeks later, the taste hasn’t greatly improved — still tastes a bit young, acidic, and unbalanced. Granted, Porter and Raspberry may not be the greatest combo, but I definitely expected better. Is it drinkable? Sure is…. But is it better than the real thing…? No way…! — Cheers, Todd Bissell Imperial Beach, CA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone tried the raspberry flavoring available in most homebrew shops? Does it taste good? Smell like raspberries? Could it pass for real raspberries? How much did you use for what amount of beer/cider?

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I tried the extract and it gave little raspberry flavor.  I prefer using frozen raspberries. — Robin The Poconos

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone tried the raspberry flavoring available in most homebrew shops? Does it taste good? Smell like raspberries? Could it pass for real raspberries? How much did you use for what amount of beer/cider?

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Question:

I saw a neat thing posted at Leener’s. It was plans for a "cork humidor". Basically you take a food grade pail, tall enough to stand a wine bottle up in. Make a sterilizing solution 1.25 % (8 Tsp metasulphite in a gallon of water). Fill the wine bottle half full, pour the corks in around the botle. Then you cover the pail tightly for a week. It will keep the corks moist enough so they won’t dry out, and sterlized too. You can store your corks this way so they are always ready to use. I’ll be making one of these. Full info at: http://www.leeners.com/winemaking04.html – Tim – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       What is right way to sterilize corks? I have been soaking them over night in one step cleaner. I put them in a pail with with the one step cleaner, than put a pail of the same size on top with just enough water in it to the push the corks under the step cleaner water. Maurice

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I had a very long talk with a Portuguese cork manufacturer at the recent Annual Home brew and Wine show in Southport UK. To cut a long story short, his recommendation was, simply put, not to sterilise at all, never to soak in hot or cold water. If difficulty was experienced in cork insertion then he recommended to rub the corks gently against a block of candle wax. Now I have always sterilised my corks but I have just done  60 bottles using "dry" corks directly from a new batch — I will see what happens in about a years time! — Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I put them in a sulphite solution for 15 minutes just before corking. They soften enough to make the corking go well without soaking up a bunch of water that will squirt into the wine as the cork is compressed… I have not had a problem in the several years I have been corking this way. Rick       What is right way to sterilize corks? I have been soaking them over night in one step cleaner. I put them in a pail with with the one step cleaner, than put a pail of the same size on top with just enough water in it to the push the corks under the step cleaner water. Maurice

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      What is right way to sterilize corks? I have been soaking them over night in one step cleaner. I put them in a pail with with the one step cleaner, than put a pail of the same size on top with just enough water in it to the push the corks under the step cleaner water. Maurice

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I put them in a sulphite solution for 15 minutes just before corking.  They soften enough to make the corking go well without soaking up a bunch of water that will squirt into the wine as the cork is compressed… I have not had a problem in the several years I have been corking this way. Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       What is right way to sterilize corks? I have been soaking them over night in one step cleaner. I put them in a pail with with the one step cleaner, than put a pail of the same size on top with just enough water in it to the push the corks under the step cleaner water. Maurice

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Question:

Not only do I seldom know when or where I am going……I usually don’t know where I’ve been. 1) Looks like some nice raffle…..I am voluntarily limiting myself to the little one….with 5 or 10 or 20 dollar maximum. 2) Is anybody else planning on hauling a trailer?  got a campground picked out?  …might as well be around some other fisher type persons….. 3) I’ve got a spare bedroom if you pay half the camp fee…..(free to carriers of mason jars or low down brown……) john

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… 3) I’ve got a spare bedroom if you pay half the camp fee…..

Sounds like a good deal to me. I’ll even meet you in Dayton and pay half the gas from there to the ‘Clave and back. — Ken Fortenberry

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Asadi asks: s anybody else planning on hauling a trailer?  got a campground picked out?  ..

The Clave site is Hemlock Acres Campground, sites reserved. I will get final numbers for attendees, with type of site needed, in Feb. At that time I will request deposit for 1 night(15 bucks with hookups for RV, I think). Man, I can’t believe you guys are as into this thing this early. You all are making me nuts anticipating this Clave.                         your clavemeister,                             Tom L

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3) I’ve got a spare bedroom if you pay half the camp fee…..(free to carriers of mason jars or low down brown……) john

john… i have been told by a usually (ok… sometimes) reliable source that cottonwood brewery has gone out of business and that its brewmeister moved to another outfit.  so, the low downs are now the long gones…  sorry to relay this news, but i think mason jars are still in general production and available.  you also might want to sample the Rogue brewery offerings… most excellent stuff. jeff

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Question:

Does anyone know where to get the wine calculator software that helps in determining S02 and Acid calculations.  Ive seen two different ones posted before.  Im interested in both. GP

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I’m the author of Sulphite Calculator. It is available from the following location: http://www.fermsoft.com/sulphite.html Rob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where to get the wine calculator software that helps in determining S02 and Acid calculations.  Ive seen two different ones posted before.  Im interested in both. GP

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another (if you happen to be one of the liberated non windows users) is http://www.cellarsite.com/winemaking it’s done in javascript but if you happen to not have internet access in your cave, you can download the thing to disk. Dennis Does anyone know where to get the wine calculator software that helps in determining S02 and Acid calculations.  Ive seen two different ones posted before.  Im interested in both. GP

– Please note: This is not my real email address. I can be contacted through the above URL.

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Take a look at my page, I programmed the WineCalc program for winemaking calculations: http://www.geocities.com/mipeman/winecalc.html Does anyone know where to get the wine calculator software that helps in determining S02 and Acid calculations.  Ive seen two different ones posted before.  Im interested in both. GP

– Michiel The Home Winemaking Page http://www.geocities.com/mipeman/

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Hi all, I’ve recently completed version 2.00 of my Wine Calculator program for Windows. It can be used to:

Question:

A couple important points that were left out of the Clostridium post… Clostridium toxins are extremely potent and will kill you..it’s not worth the price of the malt to try and save it. When brewing beer and most wines, the low pH (4.5 and stay alive) will prevent Clostridium from growing.   Mead and some wines such as banana can be breeding grounds for Clostridium spores, it’s wise to add some type of food grade acid to these brews (citric acid). Bret Percival

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I’ve used them no problem I’ve done full boils for 60 mins with cans that were bulging and have dranking the beer with no ill effect These extract were about a year and a half old, used new yeast and dumped the old in as nutrient during boil.Also added new hops. Send them to me if you don’t want them please By the way how old are the cans of malt?

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Through a vendor closeout, I bought about 6 cans of extract "kits" and almost all of them are bulging; checked the dates, and they are a couple of years old to fairly recent stuff. I was told by an extract processor that these cans of malt will impart a darker than normal color, but the flavor will not suffer – that remains to be seen. I’m going to use them only to pump of gravity of partial mashes. My question is why the internal pressure?  The reply given is that wild yeasts caused fermentation, which really doesn’t make sense to me considering these extracts are supposedly produced under heated and sanitary conditions. Anyone got a clue? Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve used them no problem I’ve done full boils for 60 mins with cans that were bulging and have dranking the beer with no ill effect These extract were about a year and a half old, used new yeast and dumped the old in as nutrient during boil.Also added new hops. Send them to me if you don’t want them please By the way how old are the cans of malt?

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My question is why the internal pressure?  The reply given is that wild yeasts caused fermentation, which really doesn’t make sense to me considering these extracts are supposedly produced under heated and sanitary conditions. Anyone got a clue?

Bacteria sometimes get in, no process is perfect. The most common cause of bulging in canned goods is the presence of clostridium botulinum, which can reproduce anaerobically and can survive up 10 min at 212F (it can survive pasteurization). The FDA recommends taking bulging canned goods to a hazardous waste disposal site or burying them. I believe that such high concentrations of sugars should inhibit bacterial growth, but perhaps some separation of water and sugars has occured over time. It thrives in pH higher that 4.6; I am not sure what the pH of LME is. Botulinim is one of the most deadly toxins known, causing death by paralysis leading to respiratory failure. Botulism outbreaks are not real common (10-30 per year in the U.S.), and the toxin breaks down after roughly 10 minutes at boiling temperatures. I would tend not to use them, but if you do take precautions. Make sure to use a full length boil (for god’s sake, don’t follow the no-boil directions that they often print on the can). Just as importantly, watch what the extract comes in contact with, and disinfect the heck out of it when you are done (the rim of your brewpot, spoons, the kitchen countertop, etc.). Trevor

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extracts are supposedly produced under heated and sanitary conditions.

The key word here is "supposedly" – even though, almost all canned goods have expiration dates & the swelling in your cans is caused by spoilage either bacterial or otherwise. You might be able to use them but the beer would certainly be questionable at best. My advice is to throw them out. "If you love wealth more than liberty,the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your cousel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen" – Samuel Adams

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[snip] It thrives in pH higher that 4.6; I am not sure what the pH of LME is. Botulinim is one of the most deadly toxins known, causing death by paralysis leading to respiratory failure. Botulism outbreaks are not real common (10-30 per year in the U.S.), and the toxin breaks down after roughly 10 minutes at boiling temperatures. I would tend not to use them, but if you do take precautions. Make sure to use a full length boil (for god’s sake, don’t follow the no-boil directions that they often print on the can). Just as importantly, watch what the extract comes in contact with, and disinfect the heck out of it when you are done (the rim of your brewpot, spoons, the kitchen countertop, etc.).

It is the toxin you’re worried about here, not the microbe. Disinfecting may kill the microbe, but it does not necessarily deactivate the toxin, since the toxin itself is not alive. I think the pH thing is the key here.  Does *anyone* have hard data on the pH range for LME, and whether it is always below the cutoff for botulism activity?  If there is *any* chance that botulism toxin can be produced in LME, I would not use bulging cans.  Saving the cost of a can of LME is not worth risking your life over. —

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What I’ve been told is that enzyme’s are at work, it can not be botulism as the wort is pasteurized. Also, the fact your boiling the wort for a full hour is going to kill anything.  Whether I’d use a bulging can, Well, I kind of think not.In fact, Im getting ready to pitch some Gordie LME.  If anyones interested in at cost them let me know…. — Doug Evans VinBrew Supply 740/756-4314 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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It is the toxin you’re worried about here, not the microbe. Disinfecting may kill the microbe, but it does not necessarily deactivate the toxin, since the toxin itself is not alive.

Actually, in this particular case the toxin is heat labile, and more easily destroyed than the bacteria (the toxin breaks down after 10 minutes at boiling temperatures, whereas the the bacteria requires extended periods under steam pressure, usually 15 psi — 250 degrees F). <snip it can not be botulism as the wort is pasteurized.

There are a handful of botulism outbreaks from commercial pasteurized goods every year in the US; it can and does happen. Don’t ignore the evidence because of faith in the process. Trevor

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Greetings All, I have some personal experience with old bulged cans of LME.  I got some a few years ago that were about 5 years old at the time. The beer I made with it had an off-flavor I’m pretty sure was due to the extract’s age.  Or maybe the LME they made 8-10 years ago didn’t taste like it does today? Who knows. Either way, I’m not sure the beer was worth the effort. If you do chose to use your LME (your’s probably isn’t as old as mine was) I don’t think you have to worry about botulism, I found the following at http://neptune.netimages.com/~chile/botulism.html.  It looks like the toxin would be destroyed during the boiling process, it’s probably denatured by the heat.  It also appears that the actual spores are inactive at pH < 4.6.  This seems low, but I wouldn’t be surprised if beer is lower than that once fermentation starts.  CO2 in solution is a diprotic acid, H2CO3. Here’s the article: Introduction and Basics C. botulinum is the spore responsible for the illness we call botulism. It is in the soil. Your herb leaves, garlic cloves, petals, fruit, or chiles will come into contact with garden soil. Anything that actually disturbs the soil surface will put the microorganisms into the air and from there it lands on the plants. Plant material that has this spore can be carried into the house. The spore will NOT hurt you. You have probably eaten them every day. The spore is like a seed, the seed form won’t hurt you. When this spore grows and reproduces it creates a toxin. This toxin is what causes botulism. Although botulism toxin in food can be destroyed by boiling at 212 degrees F (100C) for 10 minutes, the spores (which create the toxin) are heat resistant and can survive prolonged boiling. To destroy c. botulinum spores, food must be heated under pressure to temperatures substantially greater than 212 degrees F (such as with a pressure canner). Certain environmental conditions, such as absence of oxygen, pH greater than 4.6, warm temperatures, high moisture content (water activity) and lack of competing bacterial flora promote production of botulism toxin in food contaminated with c. botulinum spores. Covering foods in oil may provide the anaerobic conditions required for the production of botulism toxin. Outbreaks of botulism in the United States and Canada have been caused by covering vegetables with oil or grease. Disinfecting may kill the microbe, but it does not necessarily deactivate the toxin, since the toxin itself is not alive.

If there is *any* chance that botulism toxin can be – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – produced in LME, I would not use bulging cans.  Saving the cost of a can of LME is not worth risking your life over.

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A friend gave me his beer stuff, he got diabetes and gave up the hobby. Anywho, he had 4 cans of malt, two unmarked, all bulging. I used all of them and got GREAT beer! So, use them or lose them. S.C. Brewer,   G.Coats

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Typically Lactobacillis (spelling?) Jim Dudley Northwestern – Premium Food & Beverage Ingredients Brookfield WI   53005 http://nwextract.com

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of bulging in canned goods is the presence of clostridium botulinum, which can reproduce anaerobically and can survive up 10 min at 212F

Ten minutes at 176 degrees fahrenheit kills the multiplying bacillus, and moist heat at 248 degrees kills the spores, says     Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1997 lexan version. Ten minutes at 360 degrees fahrenheit kills the spores, says     Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1976 cellulose version. Note that the temperatures to kill the spores cannot be reached by boiling water on your stovetop. A pressure cooker or autoclave must be used (says Dan). Clostridium botulinum is not harmful (I don’t think) but it’s waste products are a toxin.  I’m no expert, but I don’t think any amount of boiling will remove the toxins.  

"Unlike the spores, the toxin is readily destroyed by heat; it remains potent unless the contaminated food is not heated at least to a mild degree before it is eaten."     Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1976 cellulose version Two minutes at 158 degrees fahrenheit destroys the toxin, says     Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1997 lexan version Let us speak of it no further — Dan L

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of bulging in canned goods is the presence of clostridium botulinum, which can reproduce anaerobically and can survive up 10 min at 212F

Clostridium botulinum is not harmful (I don’t think) but it’s waste products are a toxin.  I’m no expert, but I don’t think any amount of boiling will remove the toxins.  Any bulging cans should not be used. -david

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I’m sure this question has been asked before but I am restarting my brewery next week. I noticed that 2 old of Light Malt Extact   cans are bulging. Can I go ahead and still use them? Thanks for your help. Bruce

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Hi Bruce, I wouldn’t use ANY product in which the can was bulging. I wouldn’t even open it in my kitchen. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m sure this question has been asked before but I am restarting my brewery next week. I noticed that 2 old of Light Malt Extact cans are bulging. Can I go ahead and still use them? Thanks for your help. Bruce

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Question:

I have been brewing for about 7 months and have made about 10 batches of different varieties, using different kinds of kits.  However, I have one problem that won’t seem to go away.  My final gravity is always about 1.020.  Most of the recipies say the final gravity should be around 1.005.  I have tried adding yeast nutrient, raising the temperature, and letting it sit longer, but nothing seems to work.  My ofiginal gravities have been between 1.045-1.065, depending on the style I was brewing. Can anyone give me any advice as to how to fix this?

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I have been brewing for about 7 months and have made about 10 batches of different varieties, using different kinds of kits.  However, I have one problem that won’t seem to go away.  My final gravity is always about 1.020.  Most of the recipies say the final gravity should be around 1.005.  I have tried adding yeast nutrient, raising the temperature, and letting it sit longer, but nothing seems to work.  My ofiginal gravities have been between 1.045-1.065, depending on the style I was brewing. Can anyone give me any advice as to how to fix this?

1) Aerate! prior to pitching 2) If you are pitching liquid yeast, make a big starter. 3) Use an attenuative yeast. 4) Keep the temperature consistent. Kent

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I have been brewing for about 7 months and have made about 10 batches of different varieties, using different kinds of kits.  However, I have one problem that won’t seem to go away.  My final gravity is always about 1.020.  Most of the recipies say the final gravity should be around 1.005.  I have tried adding yeast nutrient, raising the temperature, and letting it sit longer, but nothing seems to work.  My ofiginal gravities have been between 1.045-1.065, depending on the style I was brewing. Can anyone give me any advice as to how to fix this?

Hi Jason The  kits that started in the 1.065 area a FG of 1.020 shows an apparent attenuation(AA) of about 70%. This is reasonable AA. Most of the liquid yeast I any familiar with have AA around 68-77%. I am not so sure about dry yeasts. If you used the yeast on top of a canned kit this could be the reason for the low AA. Try a liquid yeast made into a  starter. IMHO you will have better results. Hope this helps Mark Hafterson Don’t let your beer be a stranger. HOMEBREW!

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I have one problem that won’t seem to go away.  My final gravity is always about 1.020.  Most of the recipies say the final gravit=

y should be around 1.005.   My ofiginal gravities have been between 1.045-1.065, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Jason The  kits that started in the 1.065 area a FG of 1.020 shows an apparent attenuation(AA) of about 70%. This is reasonable AA. Most of the liquid yeast I any familiar with have AA around 68-77%. I am not so sure about dry yeasts. If you used the yeast on top of a canned kit this could be the reason for the low AA. Try a liquid yeast made into a  starter. IMHO you will have better results. Hope this helps Mark Hafterson Don’t let your beer be a stranger. HOMEBREW!

I second this.  I’ve been brewing for about a year and a half.  My beers have nearly all come out pretty good, some better than others.  But yeah, I was plagued by poor attenuation too.  Not always a big deal, but I didn’t get things quite where I wanted them to.  I’d always used dry yeasts (from the supplier’s cooler, I don’t use kits), brand names.  I knew that I should be using liquid yeast, but Papazian’s book makes it sounds like you need to prepare your starter in a sterilized operating room or maybe one of Intel’s clean room production areas. Well, a couple weeks ago I brewed a California Common and prepared a Wyeast starter.   Dyn-o-mite!  OG= 1.057 (yeah, a touch high), FG= 1.013!  Right where I wanted it.  I racked it for the second time this last weekend and took a taste.  I think it’s going to be the best brew I’ve ever made.   So, I’m never going back to dry yeast again (unless of course I get the urge some day and don’t have a starter going).  I was very impressed.   And the starter preparation just took some reasonable precautions, didn’t require flaming my hands and forearms w/ a butane lighter ala G. Gordon Liddy.  Just a little more on the conservative side of standard sterilizing/sanitizing techniques.

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And the starter preparation just took some reasonable precautions, didn’t require flaming my hands and forearms w/ a butane lighter ala G. Gordon Liddy.  Just a little more on the conservative side of standard sterilizing/sanitizing techniques.

I hear you… but if you write a book on the subject, you don’t really want to encourage people to cut corners. | Tim Robinson                   | Lonely Web page.  Please visit.   | | "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by | | men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."  L. Brandeis |

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 writes:     I have one problem that won’t seem to go away.  My final gravity is always  about 1.020.  Most of the recipies say the final gravit=  y should be around 1.005.   My ofiginal gravities have been between  1.045-1.065, …  … Try a liquid yeast made into a  starter. IMHO you will have better    results. …  I second this.  …  So, I’m never going back to dry yeast again (unless of course I get the  urge some day and don’t have a starter going).  … Not this religious war again ;-    I don’t think that ALL dry yeasts can or should be blamed for low attenuation.  I use both liquid and dry, and have found both high and low attenuators in each catagory.  Both are capable of producing great results.  For example Lallemand’s Nottingham Ale dry yeast is of very high quality, and an excellent attenuator, in the high 70s.   Other problems could be to blame.  For example, adequate aeration of the cooled wort can make a big difference to attenuation.  Use of sugar instead of all malt can lead to stuck fermentations (from the FG of the original post, it looks like sugar IS being used).  How much yeast was pitched (use AT LEAST 2 packages)?  Good quality, fresh and properly stored?  Properly re-hydrated? Hop this helps (and doesn’t ignite another religious war), Peter Nortel Technology                      

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Blatherwick) writes: writes: I have one problem that won’t seem to go away.  My final gravity is always about 1.020.  Most of the recipies say the final gravit= y should be around 1.005.   My ofiginal gravities have been between 1.045-1.065, … … Try a liquid yeast made into a  starter. IMHO you will have better   results. … I second this.  … So, I’m never going back to dry yeast again (unless of course I get the urge some day and don’t have a starter going).  … Not this religious war again ;-    I don’t think that ALL dry yeasts can or should be blamed for low attenuation.  I use both liquid and dry, and have found both high and low attenuators in each catagory.  Both are capable of producing great results.  For example Lallemand’s Nottingham Ale dry yeast is of very high quality, and an excellent attenuator, in the high 70s.   Other problems could be to blame.  For example, adequate aeration of the cooled wort can make a big difference to attenuation.  Use of sugar instead of all malt can lead to stuck fermentations (from the FG of the original post, it looks like sugar IS being used).  How much yeast was pitched (use AT LEAST 2 packages)?  Good quality, fresh and properly stored?  Properly re-hydrated? Hop this helps (and doesn’t ignite another religious war), Peter Nortel Technology                      

Hi Peter I also use a combination of dry and liquid yeasts, but Jason mentions using kits this implies yeast in the lid of a can. These things sit at room temp for too long and that destroy the viablility of the dry yeast. I argee Lallamand’s Nottingham Ale dry yeast is an excellent yeast. I really like whitbread ale yeast also. Guess I should have said to make sure you use a fresh yeast liquid or dry, and aerate well.. Thanks for the input Mark Hafterson Don’t let your beer be a stranger.  HOMEBREW!

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Not this religious war again ;-    I don’t think that ALL dry yeasts can or should be blamed for low attenuation.  I use both liquid and dry, and have found both high and low attenuators in each catagory. Hop this helps (and doesn’t ignite another religious war), Hi Peter I also use a combination of dry and liquid yeasts,

OH, no religious war intended, just what works (and hasn’t worked so good)for me.  I’ve used both Nottingham and Whitbread, and one thing that I really like about them is how they take off like a bat out of hell.  I have to admit that this first venture with the liquid yeast had me a bit concerned when it took 12 hours to get going.   So I don’t want to be dogmatic.  Just like using tap water vs. boiled for foundation water or topping up a carboy.  I feel better boiling anything that is added to my beer but that doesn’t mean that somebody else who has cleaner water from the tap can’t just take it straight from the pipe (lucky dogs).

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Question:

A polypin is a polyhthene cube with a serving tap.  The tap can be modified to act as a fermentation lock.  Wine boxes are similar but much less robust and much smaller.  Brew bags are similar but the wrong shape.  The tap can be removed for cleaning and adding finings or dry hops.

edited for brevity…   Does anyone know if these polypins are the same as the cubes you get for storing water while camping? The description sounds like they’re similar. I may try some "cask conditioned" ale on my next camping trip. Andy Donohue

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A polypin is a polyhthene cube with a serving tap.  The tap can be modified to act as a fermentation lock.  Wine boxes are similar but much less robust and much smaller.  Brew bags are similar but the wrong shape.  The tap can be removed for cleaning and adding finings or dry hops. edited for brevity…   Does anyone know if these polypins are the same as the cubes you get for storing water while camping? The description sounds like they’re similar. I may try some "cask conditioned" ale on my next camping trip.

I don’t think so.  They are quite flexible.  So much so that they have to be kept in a cardboard box.  The polypin deflates as the beer is served.  At the end, the cube is almost flat.  The whole point is to store the beer at atmospheric pressure without letting air get at it.   I am sure it is possible to get the same effect with other equipment.   A CO2 filled head space would work.  You would need to invent a valve that vents excess pressure without letting air in. —                        College,    Kings Lynn,   UK | is the entropy Author of schcat02.zip School  Timetable  shareware | of conciousness.                        on SimTel and garbo.uwasa.fi | It increases!

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[snip] If you bottle without priming, you will most likely make flat beer.

Yes, this would seem true.  I had in mind of bottling a few bottles without priming, then shaking vigorously those bottles before opening and serving to simulate the hand-drawn effect. Below, I describe a method I have used to make something close to a cask conditioned beer.  You may have some difficulty getting the equipment.  Improvise using local products. Here in England,  we can buy 4.5 UK gallon flexible "polypins" that deflate as the beer is served.  This excludes oxygen while allowing the beer to be served at near atmospheric pressure.   They are usually sold by pubs full of commercially brewed beer, but they are so useful that we home brewers have to make this expensive sacrifice

Thank you for the excellent idea!  I’ve not heard of a polypin before–although we have something vaguely similar for sale:   "The Beer Machine".  It’s a 2.5 gal (US) plastic bag fermentation and serving vessel with a tap.  $120 is more than I want to invest in something that is geared toward kit beers. Still, I’ll check out the method in the "Brewing the Beers You Love"(?) book you mentioned. Cheers (more accurately, Beers), nickb —        "If you see a beer, do it a favor and drink it."  –  M. Jackson

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Boy oh boy, do I LOVE cask conditioned beer!  Hey, I wonder if I can make my own?!? Anyone tried doing so without a cask or keg?  I was thinking of bottling some of my next batch w/o priming. Please post any relevant experiences or thoughts! TIA, nickb

If you bottle without priming, you will most likely make flat beer. Below, I describe a method I have used to make something close to a cask conditioned beer.  You may have some difficulty getting the equipment.  Improvise using local products. Here in England,  we can buy 4.5 UK gallon flexible "polypins" that deflate as the beer is served.  This excludes oxygen while allowing the beer to be served at near atmospheric pressure.   They are usually sold by pubs full of commercially brewed beer, but they are so useful that we home brewers have to make this expensive sacrifice A polypin is a polyhthene cube with a serving tap.  The tap can be modified to act as a fermentation lock.  Wine boxes are similar but much less robust and much smaller.  Brew bags are similar but the wrong shape.  The tap can be removed for cleaning and adding finings or dry hops. If my memory is OK, this method comes originally from Dave Lines’s Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy. The procedure for brewing is as follows. 1) Make some wort in the usual way and do the primary fermantation. 2) Just before the first vigorous fermentation ends, rack the brew    into into the polypin.  Add priming sugar, only if the fermentation    has become sluggish before racking.  With the tap on the top    face of the polypin, attach a blow off pipe and submerge the non    tap end to make a simple fermentation lock.  Make sure the tap is    open and excess CO2 can bubble off!  Squeeze the box to expell any    air.  If CO2 builds up, ignore it and let it bubble off. 3) When fermentation has nearly stopped, add isinglass.  Close the    tap and remove the blow off pipe.  Squeeze out any air that might    get in.  Rotate the polypin so the tap is in the serving position.      Allow the beer to settle and clear.  Watch the pressure.  If the    cube becomes spherical, get some friends round to help reduce the    pressure. 4) After a few days,  the beer will be very drinkable.  It won’t clear    as well as bottled beer.  Is should taste better.  It won’t keep    well – so drink it quickly.  This is because it is live active    unpressurised beer.  This is what gives cask conditionned beer its    character. This method is best for a party brew where the whole batch will reach maturity and be consumed immediately or within a day or two.  Is is as close to cask conditionning as I have managed to achieve.  The process takes about 14 days from start to drinking assuming you want to make ale and the ambient temperature is about 68F. —                        College,    Kings Lynn,   UK | is the entropy Author of schcat02.zip School  Timetable  shareware | of conciousness.                        on SimTel and garbo.uwasa.fi | It increases!

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Boy oh boy, do I LOVE cask conditioned beer!  Hey, I wonder if I can make my own?!? Anyone tried doing so without a cask or keg?  I was thinking of bottling some of my next batch w/o priming. Please post any relevant experiences or thoughts! TIA, nickb —        "If you see a beer, do it a favor and drink it."  –  M. Jackson

Response:

Question:

) ) Fellow Swillbellies: ) ) Your collective wisdom is desired yet again.  The topic this time is dry ) hopping.  The question:  can dry hopping introduce bacteria that can cause ) problems in the beer? I have rarely if ever heard anyone express concern about bacterial contamination resulting from dry hopping.  The general consensus seems to be that bacteria just don’t grow on fresh hops. The usual recommendation from folks in this group is dry hopping in the secondary; personally, I prefer the slightly mellower if less overt flavor you get from dry hopping in the primary.  Leaf hops should probably go in a bag; pelletized hops will sink to the bottom and you will have no trouble siphoning the clear wort off them. 2102 Ryan’s Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052 Copyright 1993 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.

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overt flavor you get from dry hopping in the primary.  Leaf hops should probably go in a bag; pelletized hops will sink to the bottom and you will have no trouble siphoning the clear wort off them.

Well, sort of.  The CO2 release due to the pellets causes quite a lot to float on the surface.  Next time I’m putting them in a bag.         Peter — Hewlett-Packard Company, 5301 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 53U/36,    UUCP:   ..!hplabs!aoraki!peterm Santa Clara, CA 95052-8059             (408) 553 2512

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