Brewing Master

Question:

I have an old batch of an Anchor Steam clone I did way back about 7 months ago.  I got wrapped up with some other things, and I sort of let it sit in the dark closet. I originally used the Wyeast "American Ale" variety in the primary fermentation.  After about 8 days, it went into the carboy. After smelling and tasting, it seems to be ok (actually, it seems to taste very good!), but now the question is the yeast for bottle carbonation.

I bottled a brown ale which was sitting in secondary for a year, and it carbonated beautifully in the usual 2-3 weeks. So put some trust in your yeasties. They’ve somehow managed to survive for billions of years in nature…

Response:

I will agree with Mike. I split 10 gallon batches and pitch two yeasts quite often. Occassionally, I’ll see 2 points difference but that’s not too common. Burp, -Dan — Replace nospam with msn to email me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmm. I have been totally confused on this subject until now then. I have a question, if that is the case, why would anyone care about yeast being more or less attenuative ? (ie , that White Labs yeast strain chart for example giving an apparent attenuation of , say, 75-80% for a certain strain)  I was picking yeasts in part based on this, and how dry i wanted the beer to get. But I do find the beers i made with Danstar Nottingham always came out several points dryer than the same beers made with other yeasts. Don’t have my notes with me, but I can look up the details. It will vary slightly, but the characteristics of the yeast are more than the attenuation, there is the flocculation, the flavors and aromatics, and a host of other factors.  Brewer’s yeast is basically brewer’s yeast in the way it performs.  Take an APA, use 1056, 1272, 1007, and something odd, let’s say 1728, and I’ll be willing to bet if the mash and boil are all from the same beer, you won’t see more than a point difference between them, and that will mostly be experimental error. You can use one yeast and hit a gravity and have a beer that has the driest finish ever, and use another strain and hit the same, or similar gravity and the perception in the finish be sweet. Sometimes I think you get effects where the yeast do things they really shouldn’t be capable of like fermenting to an extremely low FG.  It happens. Cheers, Mike

Response:

— A good experiment for someone would be to take 1 single wort and use 3 different yeasts in three fermenters and measure the FG.  It should be essentially the same for most yeasts.

I have done that a lot and the most I can recall seeing is maybe three points difference.  It seems to have a lot to do with floccation. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wouldn’t for one reason. Difference in attenuation between the 2 strains. What if the second strain (ie nottingham = super attenuative IMHO) ferments stuff that the first one didnt, and you get bottle bombs. Possible? Impossible? It seems like it could present a proble. i think you only need something like .002 drop in s.g. for carbonation. Not really.  The yeast do not control the attenuation as much as the fermentable sugars do.  If the yeast is healthy, you should ferment pretty much all the fermentable sugars. Cheers, Mike

Response:

Hmm. I have been totally confused on this subject until now then. I have a question, if that is the case, why would anyone care about yeast being more or less attenuative ? (ie , that White Labs yeast strain chart for example giving an apparent attenuation of , say, 75-80% for a certain strain)  I was picking yeasts in part based on this, and how dry i wanted the beer to get. But I do find the beers i made with Danstar Nottingham always came out several points dryer than the same beers made with other yeasts. Don’t have my notes with me, but I can look up the details.

It will vary slightly, but the characteristics of the yeast are more than the attenuation, there is the flocculation, the flavors and aromatics, and a host of other factors.  Brewer’s yeast is basically brewer’s yeast in the way it performs.  Take an APA, use 1056, 1272, 1007, and something odd, let’s say 1728, and I’ll be willing to bet if the mash and boil are all from the same beer, you won’t see more than a point difference between them, and that will mostly be experimental error. You can use one yeast and hit a gravity and have a beer that has the driest finish ever, and use another strain and hit the same, or similar gravity and the perception in the finish be sweet. Sometimes I think you get effects where the yeast do things they really shouldn’t be capable of like fermenting to an extremely low FG.  It happens. Cheers, Mike

Response:

I wouldn’t for one reason. Difference in attenuation between the 2 strains. What if the second strain (ie nottingham = super attenuative IMHO) ferments stuff that the first one didnt, and you get bottle bombs. Possible? Impossible? It seems like it could present a proble. i think you only need something like .002 drop in s.g. for carbonation.

Not really.  The yeast do not control the attenuation as much as the fermentable sugars do.  If the yeast is healthy, you should ferment pretty much all the fermentable sugars. A good experiment for someone would be to take 1 single wort and use 3 different yeasts in three fermenters and measure the FG.  It should be essentially the same for most yeasts. Cheers, Mike

Response:

Hmm. I have been totally confused on this subject until now then. I have a question, if that is the case, why would anyone care about yeast being more or less attenuative ? (ie , that White Labs yeast strain chart for example giving an apparent attenuation of , say, 75-80% for a certain strain)  I was picking yeasts in part based on this, and how dry i wanted the beer to get. But I do find the beers i made with Danstar Nottingham always came out several points dryer than the same beers made with other yeasts. Don’t have my notes with me, but I can look up the details. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A good experiment for someone would be to take 1 single wort and use 3 different yeasts in three fermenters and measure the FG.  It should be essentially the same for most yeasts. Cheers, Mike

Response:

I wouldn’t for one reason. Difference in attenuation between the 2 strains. What if the second strain (ie nottingham = super attenuative IMHO) ferments stuff that the first one didnt, and you get bottle bombs. Possible? Impossible? It seems like it could present a proble. i think you only need something like .002 drop in s.g. for carbonation. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yes. I would have used something cheap like Danstar Nottingham for the yeast, but that is me… Also, my store was out of American Ale, so I went with the "Ale Blend" variety for this venture.  How should this turn out?

Response:

I say wait until you brew again and then shortly after krausen, take a cup of the fermenting beer and add it to the Steam Beer, prime and bottle. Burp, -Dan — Replace nospam with msn to email me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have an old batch of an Anchor Steam clone I did way back about 7 months ago.  I got wrapped up with some other things, and I sort of let it sit in the dark closet. I originally used the Wyeast "American Ale" variety in the primary fermentation.  After about 8 days, it went into the carboy. After smelling and tasting, it seems to be ok (actually, it seems to taste very good!), but now the question is the yeast for bottle carbonation. My local homebrew store owner suggested pitching a new package of Wyeast into the bottling bucket with the priming sugar.  I would think that agitating the wort would cause that oxidation problem, so I plan to siphon the brew onto the sugar/yeast. Is this a good idea?  Also, my store was out of American Ale, so I went with the "Ale Blend" variety for this venture.  How should this turn out? Brian Gilbert

Response:

You should print up some cute labels that say "Botox Steam Beer." Or maybe that doesn’t strike you as funny. http://www.littletinywit.com/Column_11062002.html – Belgian Beer and Small       Breasts http://www.littletinywit.com/Column_11022002.html – Cartoons and Beer Brevity is the soul of trolling.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have an old batch of an Anchor Steam clone I did way back about 7 months ago.  I got wrapped up with some other things, and I sort of let it sit in the dark closet. I originally used the Wyeast "American Ale" variety in the primary fermentation.  After about 8 days, it went into the carboy. After smelling and tasting, it seems to be ok (actually, it seems to taste very good!), but now the question is the yeast for bottle carbonation. My local homebrew store owner suggested pitching a new package of Wyeast into the bottling bucket with the priming sugar.  I would think that agitating the wort would cause that oxidation problem, so I plan to siphon the brew onto the sugar/yeast. Is this a good idea?

Yes. I would have used something cheap like Danstar Nottingham for the yeast, but that is me… Also, my store was out of American Ale, so I went with the "Ale Blend" variety for this venture.  How should this turn out?

Fine. Try to not oxidize the brew… Cheers, Mike

Response:

I have an old batch of an Anchor Steam clone I did way back about 7 months ago.  I got wrapped up with some other things, and I sort of let it sit in the dark closet. I originally used the Wyeast "American Ale" variety in the primary fermentation.  After about 8 days, it went into the carboy. After smelling and tasting, it seems to be ok (actually, it seems to taste very good!), but now the question is the yeast for bottle carbonation. My local homebrew store owner suggested pitching a new package of Wyeast into the bottling bucket with the priming sugar.  I would think that agitating the wort would cause that oxidation problem, so I plan to siphon the brew onto the sugar/yeast. Is this a good idea?  Also, my store was out of American Ale, so I went with the "Ale Blend" variety for this venture.  How should this turn out? Brian Gilbert

Response:

Question:

If 2.5 gals. is half of whatever you’re brewing, then yes, 1 lb. is too much. Cut it in half also. Herb G. Hi, Has anyone here ever used rice syrup solids instead of sugar when it’s called for in an extract kit? I have a Brewmart Czech Pilsner Kit and was told to use 1 lb. of the rice syrup solids rather than sugar to get a less cidery taste. I’m cutting the recipe down to 2.5 gallons though so I wonder if 1lb is possibly too much to add? I don’t want more than 4% alcohol. Thanks dave

– Everyone has to have something to believe in. I believe I’ll have another beer. The Quest for a better beer continues.

Response:

says… Czech Pilsner’s are very malty and should have neither rice or refined sugar. thanks, the main question however is this: I’m cutting the recipe down to 2.5 gallons  so is 1lb of the rice solids too much to add? thanks dave VV

1/2lb of rice will produce a beer with an OG of around 1.045, which will end up at around 4.5% ABV. If you want a beer below 4%, use less than 1/2lb. If you want a truer Czech Pilsner, substitute 1/2lb malt extract instead.

Response:

1/2lb of rice will produce a beer with an OG of around 1.045, which will end up at around 4.5% ABV.

thanks for the reply! dave

Response:

Czech Pilsner’s are very malty and should have neither rice or refined sugar.

thanks, the main question however is this: I’m cutting the recipe down to 2.5 gallons  so is 1lb of the rice solids too much to add? thanks dave VV

Response:

Hi, Has anyone here ever used rice syrup solids instead of sugar when it’s called for in an extract kit? I have a Brewmart Czech Pilsner Kit and was told to use 1 lb. of the rice syrup solids rather than sugar to get a less cidery taste. I’m cutting the recipe down to 2.5 gallons though so I wonder if 1lb is possibly too much to add? I don’t want more than 4% alcohol. Thanks dave

Response:

says… Hi, Has anyone here ever used rice syrup solids instead of sugar when it’s called for in an extract kit? I have a Brewmart Czech Pilsner Kit and was told to use 1 lb. of the rice syrup solids rather than sugar to get a less cidery taste. I’m cutting the recipe down to 2.5 gallons though so I wonder if 1lb is possibly too much to add? I don’t want more than 4% alcohol. Thanks dave

Czech Pilsner’s are very malty and should have neither rice or refined sugar. Make it with all malt for best results. If you make it with rice or sugar, it will be closer to an American Light lager.

Response:

Question:

"Brian" <n…@dev.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.15e8574d4b127bd09896de@news.nwlink.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Being single, and male, I rarely cook my meals and eat at home. I go out > a lot, and often dine alone. I’m used to it. Sometimes I have fast food, > but often I try to go upscale a bit more. Not 5-star dining, but a > decent, sit down restaurant. > And I’ve noticed something. Something new. > In the last week, I’ve had three different waitresses, at three different > restaurants, sit down across from me at the table when they take my > order. Last weekend, at a Tex-Mex place I frequent. A day later, at a > brew pub. And now, again, when I went to a diner for breakfast. > What’s up with that? What does it mean? > Being single, and male, and, well, a bit lonely, I think it might mean > that they’re flirting with me. Being cynical, I think that they might be > flirting with me for the sole purpose of increasing their tips. Being > practical, I think they might just be tired and want a chance to get off > their feet. Any and all explanations could explain it. But since it’s > happening a lot lately, I wonder if it’s just a coincidence, or if it’s a > pattern. > Any thoughts?

    Reinforcement. A tired waitress sits down across from a male customer, and notcies she gets a larger tip. Now she makes more money and gets to rest her feet. Suspecting the reason for the larger tip, she may not do this with every male customer, so in a way it is a combination of the three.

Response:

That’s right!!  I don’t think they’ll know what hit ‘em!  Can we be in the wedding?  LOL!! Hugs, the crazy Loon! On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:32:18 +0200, "Q_Spades" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Q_Spa…@guesswhere.com> wrote: >LOL! Go for it Brian! Who knows!!! I was thinking the same thing. Maybe >you’ll no longer be single!! Just use their own techniques on them LOL >They’ll never be able to resist you! >Hugs! >Tamar. >Loon Atick heeft geschreven in bericht ><3b823329.51736…@news-server.mn.rr.com>… >>hahaha  My brother lives in Portland, too!!!  Small world, huh?  You >>go, Brian.  Get yourself a date out of their new customer service >>techniques!!! hahahaha >>Hugs, Deb >>On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:24:20 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: >>>Hi, Deb! >>>What a great idea! That really hadn’t occured to me until after I posted >>>(must be why I’m still single; too slow on the uptake). >>>Oh, and I live in Portland, OR. >>>In article <3b80c051.22333…@news-server.mn.rr.com>, you say: >>>|Hi Brian, I’m not sure what city you live in, but here in Minneapolis >>>|I too have noticed waitresses and waiters either sitting down to take >>>|orders, or if there is a group of us, they kneel down to face level at >>>|the table.  I thought it was pretty unusual myself.  I think it is the >>>|new restaurant ‘buzz’….a way maybe to get closer to the customer, >>>|make better eye contact, make them feel more at home, give better >>>|customer service, and of course, get better tips with all those things >>>|in mind.  However, if I were YOU….and a real cutie sits at your >>>|table, ask her to join you!!!! hahahaha  I mean, why the hell not? >>>|Obviously she can’t join you because she is working, BUT, you could >>>|always ask her to join you at another time, somewhere else!!!  See >>>|what a little matchmaker I am? >>>| >>>|Hugs, Deb >>>| >>>| >>>|On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:44:13 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: >>>| >>>|>Being single, and male, I rarely cook my meals and eat at home. I go out >>>|>a lot, and often dine alone. I’m used to it. Sometimes I have fast food, >>>|>but often I try to go upscale a bit more. Not 5-star dining, but a >>>|>decent, sit down restaurant. >>>|> >>>|>And I’ve noticed something. Something new. >>>|> >>>|>In the last week, I’ve had three different waitresses, at three >different >>>|>restaurants, sit down across from me at the table when they take my >>>|>order. Last weekend, at a Tex-Mex place I frequent. A day later, at a >>>|>brew pub. And now, again, when I went to a diner for breakfast. >>>|> >>>|>What’s up with that? What does it mean? >>>|> >>>|>Being single, and male, and, well, a bit lonely, I think it might mean >>>|>that they’re flirting with me. Being cynical, I think that they might be >>>|>flirting with me for the sole purpose of increasing their tips. Being >>>|>practical, I think they might just be tired and want a chance to get off >>>|>their feet. Any and all explanations could explain it. But since it’s >>>|>happening a lot lately, I wonder if it’s just a coincidence, or if it’s >a >>>|>pattern. >>>|> >>>|>Any thoughts? >>>| >>>|

Response:

LOL! Go for it Brian! Who knows!!! I was thinking the same thing. Maybe you’ll no longer be single!! Just use their own techniques on them LOL They’ll never be able to resist you! Hugs! Tamar. Loon Atick heeft geschreven in bericht <3b823329.51736…@news-server.mn.rr.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->hahaha  My brother lives in Portland, too!!!  Small world, huh?  You >go, Brian.  Get yourself a date out of their new customer service >techniques!!! hahahaha >Hugs, Deb >On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:24:20 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: >>Hi, Deb! >>What a great idea! That really hadn’t occured to me until after I posted >>(must be why I’m still single; too slow on the uptake). >>Oh, and I live in Portland, OR. >>In article <3b80c051.22333…@news-server.mn.rr.com>, you say: >>|Hi Brian, I’m not sure what city you live in, but here in Minneapolis >>|I too have noticed waitresses and waiters either sitting down to take >>|orders, or if there is a group of us, they kneel down to face level at >>|the table.  I thought it was pretty unusual myself.  I think it is the >>|new restaurant ‘buzz’….a way maybe to get closer to the customer, >>|make better eye contact, make them feel more at home, give better >>|customer service, and of course, get better tips with all those things >>|in mind.  However, if I were YOU….and a real cutie sits at your >>|table, ask her to join you!!!! hahahaha  I mean, why the hell not? >>|Obviously she can’t join you because she is working, BUT, you could >>|always ask her to join you at another time, somewhere else!!!  See >>|what a little matchmaker I am? >>| >>|Hugs, Deb >>| >>| >>|On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:44:13 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: >>| >>|>Being single, and male, I rarely cook my meals and eat at home. I go out >>|>a lot, and often dine alone. I’m used to it. Sometimes I have fast food, >>|>but often I try to go upscale a bit more. Not 5-star dining, but a >>|>decent, sit down restaurant. >>|> >>|>And I’ve noticed something. Something new. >>|> >>|>In the last week, I’ve had three different waitresses, at three different >>|>restaurants, sit down across from me at the table when they take my >>|>order. Last weekend, at a Tex-Mex place I frequent. A day later, at a >>|>brew pub. And now, again, when I went to a diner for breakfast. >>|> >>|>What’s up with that? What does it mean? >>|> >>|>Being single, and male, and, well, a bit lonely, I think it might mean >>|>that they’re flirting with me. Being cynical, I think that they might be >>|>flirting with me for the sole purpose of increasing their tips. Being >>|>practical, I think they might just be tired and want a chance to get off >>|>their feet. Any and all explanations could explain it. But since it’s >>|>happening a lot lately, I wonder if it’s just a coincidence, or if it’s a >>|>pattern. >>|> >>|>Any thoughts? >>| >>|

Response:

hahaha  My brother lives in Portland, too!!!  Small world, huh?  You go, Brian.  Get yourself a date out of their new customer service techniques!!! hahahaha Hugs, Deb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:24:20 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: >Hi, Deb! >What a great idea! That really hadn’t occured to me until after I posted >(must be why I’m still single; too slow on the uptake). >Oh, and I live in Portland, OR. >In article <3b80c051.22333…@news-server.mn.rr.com>, you say: >|Hi Brian, I’m not sure what city you live in, but here in Minneapolis >|I too have noticed waitresses and waiters either sitting down to take >|orders, or if there is a group of us, they kneel down to face level at >|the table.  I thought it was pretty unusual myself.  I think it is the >|new restaurant ‘buzz’….a way maybe to get closer to the customer, >|make better eye contact, make them feel more at home, give better >|customer service, and of course, get better tips with all those things >|in mind.  However, if I were YOU….and a real cutie sits at your >|table, ask her to join you!!!! hahahaha  I mean, why the hell not? >|Obviously she can’t join you because she is working, BUT, you could >|always ask her to join you at another time, somewhere else!!!  See >|what a little matchmaker I am? >| >|Hugs, Deb >| >| >|On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:44:13 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: >| >|>Being single, and male, I rarely cook my meals and eat at home. I go out >|>a lot, and often dine alone. I’m used to it. Sometimes I have fast food, >|>but often I try to go upscale a bit more. Not 5-star dining, but a >|>decent, sit down restaurant. >|> >|>And I’ve noticed something. Something new. >|> >|>In the last week, I’ve had three different waitresses, at three different >|>restaurants, sit down across from me at the table when they take my >|>order. Last weekend, at a Tex-Mex place I frequent. A day later, at a >|>brew pub. And now, again, when I went to a diner for breakfast. >|> >|>What’s up with that? What does it mean? >|> >|>Being single, and male, and, well, a bit lonely, I think it might mean >|>that they’re flirting with me. Being cynical, I think that they might be >|>flirting with me for the sole purpose of increasing their tips. Being >|>practical, I think they might just be tired and want a chance to get off >|>their feet. Any and all explanations could explain it. But since it’s >|>happening a lot lately, I wonder if it’s just a coincidence, or if it’s a >|>pattern. >|> >|>Any thoughts? >| >|

Response:

Hi, Deb! What a great idea! That really hadn’t occured to me until after I posted (must be why I’m still single; too slow on the uptake). Oh, and I live in Portland, OR. In article <3b80c051.22333…@news-server.mn.rr.com>, you say: |Hi Brian, I’m not sure what city you live in, but here in Minneapolis |I too have noticed waitresses and waiters either sitting down to take |orders, or if there is a group of us, they kneel down to face level at |the table.  I thought it was pretty unusual myself.  I think it is the |new restaurant ‘buzz’….a way maybe to get closer to the customer, |make better eye contact, make them feel more at home, give better |customer service, and of course, get better tips with all those things |in mind.  However, if I were YOU….and a real cutie sits at your |table, ask her to join you!!!! hahahaha  I mean, why the hell not? |Obviously she can’t join you because she is working, BUT, you could |always ask her to join you at another time, somewhere else!!!  See |what a little matchmaker I am? | |Hugs, Deb | | |On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:44:13 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: | |>Being single, and male, I rarely cook my meals and eat at home. I go out |>a lot, and often dine alone. I’m used to it. Sometimes I have fast food, |>but often I try to go upscale a bit more. Not 5-star dining, but a |>decent, sit down restaurant. |> |>And I’ve noticed something. Something new. |> |>In the last week, I’ve had three different waitresses, at three different |>restaurants, sit down across from me at the table when they take my |>order. Last weekend, at a Tex-Mex place I frequent. A day later, at a |>brew pub. And now, again, when I went to a diner for breakfast. |> |>What’s up with that? What does it mean? |> |>Being single, and male, and, well, a bit lonely, I think it might mean |>that they’re flirting with me. Being cynical, I think that they might be |>flirting with me for the sole purpose of increasing their tips. Being |>practical, I think they might just be tired and want a chance to get off |>their feet. Any and all explanations could explain it. But since it’s |>happening a lot lately, I wonder if it’s just a coincidence, or if it’s a |>pattern. |> |>Any thoughts? | | — Brian

Response:

Hi Brian, I’m not sure what city you live in, but here in Minneapolis I too have noticed waitresses and waiters either sitting down to take orders, or if there is a group of us, they kneel down to face level at the table.  I thought it was pretty unusual myself.  I think it is the new restaurant ‘buzz’….a way maybe to get closer to the customer, make better eye contact, make them feel more at home, give better customer service, and of course, get better tips with all those things in mind.  However, if I were YOU….and a real cutie sits at your table, ask her to join you!!!! hahahaha  I mean, why the hell not? Obviously she can’t join you because she is working, BUT, you could always ask her to join you at another time, somewhere else!!!  See what a little matchmaker I am? Hugs, Deb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:44:13 -0700, Brian <n…@dev.net> wrote: >Being single, and male, I rarely cook my meals and eat at home. I go out >a lot, and often dine alone. I’m used to it. Sometimes I have fast food, >but often I try to go upscale a bit more. Not 5-star dining, but a >decent, sit down restaurant. >And I’ve noticed something. Something new. >In the last week, I’ve had three different waitresses, at three different >restaurants, sit down across from me at the table when they take my >order. Last weekend, at a Tex-Mex place I frequent. A day later, at a >brew pub. And now, again, when I went to a diner for breakfast. >What’s up with that? What does it mean? >Being single, and male, and, well, a bit lonely, I think it might mean >that they’re flirting with me. Being cynical, I think that they might be >flirting with me for the sole purpose of increasing their tips. Being >practical, I think they might just be tired and want a chance to get off >their feet. Any and all explanations could explain it. But since it’s >happening a lot lately, I wonder if it’s just a coincidence, or if it’s a >pattern. >Any thoughts?

Response:

Being single, and male, I rarely cook my meals and eat at home. I go out a lot, and often dine alone. I’m used to it. Sometimes I have fast food, but often I try to go upscale a bit more. Not 5-star dining, but a decent, sit down restaurant. And I’ve noticed something. Something new. In the last week, I’ve had three different waitresses, at three different restaurants, sit down across from me at the table when they take my order. Last weekend, at a Tex-Mex place I frequent. A day later, at a brew pub. And now, again, when I went to a diner for breakfast. What’s up with that? What does it mean? Being single, and male, and, well, a bit lonely, I think it might mean that they’re flirting with me. Being cynical, I think that they might be flirting with me for the sole purpose of increasing their tips. Being practical, I think they might just be tired and want a chance to get off their feet. Any and all explanations could explain it. But since it’s happening a lot lately, I wonder if it’s just a coincidence, or if it’s a pattern. Any thoughts? — Brian

Response:

Question:

Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter

Response:

I clean mine with a soft scrubby pad and soap…I use my carboy brush to get the bottom.  I also take the whole thing apart, which all you need is a set of wrenches if you have the pepsi kegs.  You’ll need a pin lock wrench if you have a coke keg. After everything has been washed, rinsed and reassembled, I fill it with my iodophor solution, shake it up, let it sit a few minutes.  Then turn it upside down, let it sit for a few minutes, then I pressurize the keg with about 20lbs.  I get something to poke the valve down on the in and out and let the solution drain out for about a minute or 2 on each side. After that, I dump the iodophor out into my bucket, turn the keg upside down to air dry.  I’ll poke the valves one more time to get any left over solution out, then once air dried, I place my sanitized top on, seal it and pressurize it until I’m ready to use it.  I normally do this about a few days before I’ll need it.  Then the beer goes in. Oh, don’t use chlorine on stainless steel…Don’t know why, but that’s what I’ve heard. It’s easy to replace the o-rings and stuff.  Very easy actually.  Just take the valves out, replace everything, put them back in.  No bigga deal.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter

Response:

I have some used corny kegs that I am going to use for my brew.  Does anyone know if I should actually replace the "o" rings and such, or should I leave well enough alone?

I have 10 used corny kegs, the orings have never been replaced on any of them, and they have not affected my beer that I can tell.  I once put beer in a keg I used just for homemade rootbeer, and I didn’t detect any off flavors. I keep hearing that the "o" rings will give the beer an off flavor.  Is there any truth to that? Should I replace gaskets or leave alone since the keg holds pressure very well.

Do what you think is best.  If the kegs seal, the rings must be in ok shape. If you do not detect any noticable odors or flavors in your beer, then you are probably fine leaving things be.  On the other hand, it won’t hurt to replace them either.  Others may report that they always replace the gaskets on each used keg.  Whatever works for you is the right way to go Any thoughts?

You will love kegging! Peter

DaveG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

The in and out o-rings won’t  imapart any flavor. Take them off and stretch them a little. If you see any cracks, it’s a good time to replace them. Although they’ll work for a while as is. The o-ring that seals the lid could be a problem for off flavors is a strong flavored soda was used in the keg (like root beer). Take it out, clean it and let it dry. Then smell it. If you smell something, it’ll get into your beer. Again, test for cracks and replace if necessary.. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have some used corny kegs that I am going to use for my brew.  Does anyone know if I should actually replace the "o" rings and such, or should I leave well enough alone? I keep hearing that the "o" rings will give the beer an off flavor.  Is there any truth to that? Should I replace gaskets or leave alone since the keg holds pressure very well. Any thoughts? Peter I use  about a tbs. of dishwashing detergent to clean and Iodophor to sanitize. Chorine is fine if you don’t let it soak for a long time. Chlorine and SS no good. My experience is that – don’t muck with the rings if they don’t leak, especially the poppets. Poppets seem to match with the I/O ’s. If you need to replace things on ball lock cornies, no special tools are reacquired. My $0.02. Colin T Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts? Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

I have some used corny kegs that I am going to use for my brew.  Does anyone know if I should actually replace the "o" rings and such, or should I leave well enough alone? I keep hearing that the "o" rings will give the beer an off flavor.  Is there any truth to that? Should I replace gaskets or leave alone since the keg holds pressure very well. Any thoughts? Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use  about a tbs. of dishwashing detergent to clean and Iodophor to sanitize. Chorine is fine if you don’t let it soak for a long time. Chlorine and SS no good. My experience is that – don’t muck with the rings if they don’t leak, especially the poppets. Poppets seem to match with the I/O ’s. If you need to replace things on ball lock cornies, no special tools are reacquired. My $0.02. Colin T Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

Oh, don’t use chlorine on stainless steel…Don’t know why, but that’s what I’ve heard. Chlorine will pit stainless steel over time.

DaveG

Response:

Peter, I use a couple of packs of C-Brite ($0.25 each) and near boiling water to clean my kegs… Take them all apart and soak everything until the keg is cool or overnight… Drain and reassemble.  I usually pressurize the keg with 10 lbs CO2, and then store them that way. When it’s time to keg your brew, de-pressurize, (if the pressure isn’t there, now’s the time to replace those seals (a 5 pc set is around $5.00)), rinse with a cold water splash and then fill with cold water & Iodophor to standard solution strength… wait 5 minutes, empty solution, splash rinse with cold water and your ready to go. As far as the O-rings are concerned a pen-knife is all you’ll need to remove the o-rings on the ball-lock posts, everything else can be done by hand.

: Hi All, : : I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the : necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I : start. : : 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? : 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I : need special Equipment?  Where do I start? : : Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! : : Peter : : :

Response:

I use  about a tbs. of dishwashing detergent to clean and Iodophor to sanitize. Chorine is fine if you don’t let it soak for a long time. Chlorine and SS no good. My experience is that – don’t muck with the rings if they don’t leak, especially the poppets. Poppets seem to match with the I/O ’s. If you need to replace things on ball lock cornies, no special tools are reacquired. My $0.02. Colin T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter

Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

Chlorine will corode and pit stainless steel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joey, Thanks for the info. How much do you pressurize the keg (psi) with when waiting for beer to be filled into it? Pete I clean mine with a soft scrubby pad and soap…I use my carboy brush to get the bottom.  I also take the whole thing apart, which all you need is a set of wrenches if you have the pepsi kegs.  You’ll need a pin lock wrench if you have a coke keg. After everything has been washed, rinsed and reassembled, I fill it with my iodophor solution, shake it up, let it sit a few minutes.  Then turn it upside down, let it sit for a few minutes, then I pressurize the keg with about 20lbs.  I get something to poke the valve down on the in and out and let the solution drain out for about a minute or 2 on each side. After that, I dump the iodophor out into my bucket, turn the keg upside down to air dry.  I’ll poke the valves one more time to get any left over solution out, then once air dried, I place my sanitized top on, seal it and pressurize it until I’m ready to use it.  I normally do this about a few days before I’ll need it.  Then the beer goes in. Oh, don’t use chlorine on stainless steel…Don’t know why, but that’s what I’ve heard. It’s easy to replace the o-rings and stuff.  Very easy actually.  Just take the valves out, replace everything, put them back in.  No bigga deal.. Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts? Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter

Response:

Joey, Thanks for the info. How much do you pressurize the keg (psi) with when waiting for beer to be filled into it? Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I clean mine with a soft scrubby pad and soap…I use my carboy brush to get the bottom.  I also take the whole thing apart, which all you need is a set of wrenches if you have the pepsi kegs.  You’ll need a pin lock wrench if you have a coke keg. After everything has been washed, rinsed and reassembled, I fill it with my iodophor solution, shake it up, let it sit a few minutes.  Then turn it upside down, let it sit for a few minutes, then I pressurize the keg with about 20lbs.  I get something to poke the valve down on the in and out and let the solution drain out for about a minute or 2 on each side. After that, I dump the iodophor out into my bucket, turn the keg upside down to air dry.  I’ll poke the valves one more time to get any left over solution out, then once air dried, I place my sanitized top on, seal it and pressurize it until I’m ready to use it.  I normally do this about a few days before I’ll need it.  Then the beer goes in. Oh, don’t use chlorine on stainless steel…Don’t know why, but that’s what I’ve heard. It’s easy to replace the o-rings and stuff.  Very easy actually.  Just take the valves out, replace everything, put them back in.  No bigga deal.. Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter

Response:

Replacing the o rings is easy and no tools are necessary unless you want to replace the poppets in which case you will need a 5/8 inch box end wrench to take the in and out valves off.  As far as cleaning I use Five Star PBW to clean kC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I have been brewing for over 5 years and now have accumulated all the necessary equipment to keg my beer.  I was wondering two things before I start. 1. What should I use to clean the kegs out?  Brushes? Iodine? Clorine? 2. How easy is it to replace the gaskets ("o" ring) and other parts?  Do I need special Equipment?  Where do I start? Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks! Peter

Response:

Question:

Geez, Lighten up!  If someone comes to this newsgroup asking a question like that, they’re sure to get a few hecklers in their responses. And just FYI, I was not the one who posed the suggesion to add water to Sam Adams.  I just thought that was a funny reply. Remember the first word, in the homebrewer’s credo, "RELAX", don’t worry, have a homebrew. You guys need to relax more, and learn to take a joke. — Brew on! Michael Dieterle Brewmaster Biohazard Brewing Co. www.biohazardbrewing.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, sometimes if one doesn’t have an answer it not necessarily demonstrates superiority in ridiculing the question or indirectly making fun of the one who asked. Kind of odd behavior in a group like this where everybody seems to be very helpful and takes others seriously. Good Answer, dobblebe!!!!  That’s about what it’d take to make piss-water like that! — Brew on! Michael Dieterle Brewmaster Biohazard Brewing Co. www.biohazardbrewing.com Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors Take a bottle of Sam Adams and add three cups of water to it. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

Response:

Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

Dear jamesw, It makes me sad to see the way you have been treated in this newsgroup, and I would like to apologize for it. Your very first post to the group was about the possibility of cloning the beer that you like, and I find it a perfectly sensible question. I had the same approach when I started brewing – and I also like light lagers, by the way. It is plain wrong what some guys have claimed here – that we are all brewing because we want another kind of beer than we can buy in the shop. For my own part, I started because I found the hobby interesting, and for tax reasons (I live in Norway). What I would recommend for you is first to go to www.howtobrew.com to learn the basics of brewing – it’s a free online book. Then, if you are still interested, get the required equipment from a homebrew shop. I bet there is one near you. Brew a pale ale for your first try – it is not quite what you want, but it’s easy to succeed with it, and you get familiar with technique. Get a pre-hopped kit in the shop if you want to go easy for the first time, but toss out the instructions and use these instead: http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew/kits.html Then try to create a basic bohemian-style pilsner – this is the ancestor of all light lager beers, including Coors I bet. Be sure to keep the temperatures down – you want a clean crisp taste, so you must ferment at 50F. And be careful with the hops – don’t use much for your first batches. If you can manage this, you can come closer to the familiar taste of your old favourite for your next batch, by using some rice syrup, I guess. You can have a lot of fun trying to approach a particular taste, and there is even a book called "Clone brews" that may interest you at that stage. The great thing is that even if you don’t achieve exactly what you want, you’ll brew and drink a lot of good beer anyway. Somewhere along this process you are likely to forget about your original aim of cloning, and start enjoying the endless possibilities in brewing. But don’t listen to all those guys that boast about their advanced and developed and expensive tastes. I still brew various light lagers, I am proud of my brews, and friends keep popping in to envy my kegs and throw back some. I wish you luck with your new hobby! Regards, Svein Olav Mytting Oslo

Response:

 I guess I don’t get it. Im sure that some people don’t like Guinness ( myself included) but I see no sarcastic responses to a request for a recipe. James likes Coors so what. I don’t and you don’t but this is not a an opinion forum it’s a news group dedicated to help others, or at least that’s what I thought. And what’s up with the WE thing? Are you the Lord of the Flies here? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Getting clone recipes can some times be painful here. Not that it should, this news group is for helping people out with their brewing questions whether it be all grain ,canned ,clone ,ect.  I guess some don’t get it. As for your question , I haven’t a clue, but there are many books that have hundreds of clone beer recipes. Do a web search for "beer clones" and see what you get. good luck It’s not a problem that he asked for a clone recipe, but that he asked for a Coors clone.  We get it; he doesn’t.  We homebrew because we want a better beer.  I doubt you’ll find a homebrewer who hasn’t tried less than a hundred different beers.  We’re selective about what we drink; James isn’t. And judging by his response to our responses, he’s probably too young to buy homebrew supplies. Go Giants!! — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

Response:

I am not locked into Coors light -that’s the best beer that is available to me. Miller sucks and the rest of the beers at the grocery store suck bigger.I don’t like all of the brown nosing fad beers that the "in" people drink. An  ice chest in the garage full of ice  and silver bullets with a football game on is all of the ambiance I need.I thought that brewing my own beer would be a hobby that would be fun-brewing the beer that you like would be even funnier.If there is a beer that you think taste better – let me know  Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Getting clone recipes can some times be painful here. Not that it should, this news group is for helping people out with their brewing questions whether it be all grain ,canned ,clone ,ect.  I guess some don’t get it. As for your question , I haven’t a clue, but there are many books that have hundreds of clone beer recipes. Do a web search for "beer clones" and see what you get. good luck It’s not a problem that he asked for a clone recipe, but that he asked for a Coors clone.  We get it; he doesn’t.  We homebrew because we want a better beer.  I doubt you’ll find a homebrewer who hasn’t tried less than a hundred different beers.  We’re selective about what we drink; James isn’t. And judging by his response to our responses, he’s probably too young to buy homebrew supplies. Go Giants!! — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

Response:

Most homebrewers don’t have the quality control necessary to brew budmilloors and don’t want to brew this type of beer. That being said, try this: 5# alexanders ultra lite extract 2# rice syrup 1/2 oz. perle hops 8% alpha 40 min. 1/4 oz. saaz hops 5 min.  2 pkt Danstar Nottingham yeast. ferment at 65 – 70 degrees. Serve cold. This should make a light colored ale with about 5% alcohol at 14 IBU’s.  You can get the ingredients at www.morebeer.com (NAYY). I haven’t done extract for awhile but this is a toned down version of my summer sleeper. I use 7#  alexanders and 2.5# rice syrup and more hops. About 7% alcohol. Of course, when your friends ask how much alcohol? Tell them 5.27%. It makes them think you know what your talking about. Do some reading before you decide to do this and read this group. You will make a good beer to start out with and you’ll get into your own groove. BTW who are the raiders? Synchronized brewers? Colin T Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

I am not locked into Coors light -that’s the best beer that is available

Let’s get something straight: Are we talking about Coors or Coors Light? Regular Coors is my fallback, so I was hoping to get a good answer to this question.  Coors Light is the most vile piss-water west of the Mississippi. Thanks to Mike, I’m going to give a Coors clone a try.  BTW, if the guy is underage, what’s the big deal?  I wish I would have known about homebrewing when I was 16, i wouldn’t had to have suffered 5 years of Busch Light hangovers!  :) brian — Sr. Engineer – Symantec Corporation – http://www.symantec.com

Response:

How much water do you add to make Zima??? ;0)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure if he asked for a Heineken clone he would have recipe by now.Maybe someone should give him a light lager recipe and let give it a try? Take a bottle of Sam Adams, add three of water to it and leave it in the sun for a few hours. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

Response:

Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

James, Like most of the others around here I’m not a fan of American light lager (which is what Coors is). But unlike some of the other posts, I don’t brew because I can make better beer than what’s available. There’s plenty of commercially available beers nowadays that I’d be happy to drink. I brew just because I enjoy it. You should be able to brew whatever you like without getting harassed for it. Having said that, I also don’t believe that a new homebrewer like yourself will be able to duplicate anything remotely close to it. Light lagers are one of the most difficult styles to brew because they have so little malt and hop characteristics to cover up any fermentation flaws. Lagers should be avoided by first time brewers because they require temperature control and precise techniques. Are there any light ales you like? You should start there and then work your way up to the more difficult styles. As for ‘brown nose fad beers’, I think you’ve got that backwards. American light lagers are the relatively new fad. The beers that most of us enjoy are based on older styles that have been around for hundreds of years.

Response:

Get off yer high horse, dogglebe.  If someone wants to know how to brew *any* beer, we should be helpful and not chase him away from the hobby. What you call "better beer" is really a matter of taste, isn’t it?  The American Light Lager is a distinct style and, when done right, can be a damn good beer (just not one of my personal favorites).  So if someone enjoys it and wants to know how to brew one, who are you to tell him to piss off?  I understand your first post was a joke (it got a chuckle out of me), but your subsequent posts are a little harsh.   Maybe if someone posted a decent American Light Lager recipe (I don’t have one that I’ve tried), maybe the guy could brew a beer that he likes *more* than Coors and it might make him try some other styles beyond that. OK, I zipped over to The Brewery and came back with these links and summaries: http://brewery.org/brewery/gambmug/recs/259.shtml 3.3 lbs. Northern Brewer Malt Syrup boil 2.2 lbs. Rice Syrup                 boil 1/2 oz. Perle Pellets 8.4%          bittering 1/4 oz. Crystal Pellets 3.7%        bittering 1/4 oz. Crystal Pellets 3.7%        flavor Irish Moss                          fining Polyclar                            fining Heading Agent                       ? YeastLabs American Lager Yeast Amylase Enzyme 3/4 Corn Sugar, priming http://brewery.org/gambmug/recs/426.shtml 12 oz. Pale Ale Malt           steep 6.5 Pounds Ex Light DME        boil 1 oz Centennial hop pellets    bittering 1/2 oz Kent Goldings hops      flavor 1 oz Cascade leaf hops         aroma 1/2 teaspoon Irish moss Wyeast # 2112 California lager One 1/2 oz. Libery hop plug    dry(!) 3/4 cup corn sugar Prost! Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Getting clone recipes can some times be painful here. Not that it should, this news group is for helping people out with their brewing questions whether it be all grain ,canned ,clone ,ect.  I guess some don’t get it. As for your question , I haven’t a clue, but there are many books that have hundreds of clone beer recipes. Do a web search for "beer clones" and see what you get. good luck It’s not a problem that he asked for a clone recipe, but that he asked for a Coors clone.  We get it; he doesn’t.  We homebrew because we want a better beer.  I doubt you’ll find a homebrewer who hasn’t tried less than a hundred different beers.  We’re selective about what we drink; James isn’t. And judging by his response to our responses, he’s probably too young to buy homebrew supplies. Go Giants!! — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

– Mike Edwards, MIS Edwards Graphic Arts, Inc. 2700 Bell Avenue Des Moines, IA  50321

Response:

snip< I don’t like all of the brown nosing fad beers that the "in" people drink. snip<

Just how does a fad beer brown nose?  :P Burp, -Dan

Response:

I am not locked into Coors light -that’s the best beer that is available to me. Miller sucks and the rest of the beers at the grocery store suck bigger.I don’t like all of the brown nosing fad beers that the "in" people drink. An  ice chest in the garage full of ice  and silver bullets with a football game on is all of the ambiance I need.I thought that brewing my own beer would be a hobby that would be fun-brewing the beer that you like would be even funnier.If there is a beer that you think taste better – let me know Jim

Better beer than Coors…Hmmm….Make a list of all the beers in the world, and remove most american lagers such as Bud,Millers,Coors,Old Milwalkee, Milwalkee’s Best, Busch, etc. and you will have your answer. You see, the light lagers are for people that either don’t really like beer, or just want something light and tasteless as possible to get drunk on. I’ll be the first to admit that it’s hard to get drunk on heavy beers, unless perhaps it’s pushing 10% alcohol. — Drink beer, not Bud!

Response:

I’m sure if he asked for a Heineken clone he would have recipe by now.Maybe someone should give him a light lager recipe and let give it a try?

Take a bottle of Sam Adams, add three of water to it and leave it in the sun for a few hours. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

Response:

I am not locked into Coors light -that’s the best beer that is available to me. Miller sucks and the rest of the beers at the grocery store suck bigger.

I strongly recommend that you look elsewhere for your beers.  Visit http://www.pubcrawler.com and find some local beer bars and microbreweries.  Then go find some beer distributors that you normally don’t go to and ask for the belgian, german and english beers. I don’t like all of the brown nosing fad beers that the "in" people drink.

I don’t know what your definition of ‘fad beer’ is, but I hope you’re not confusing it with the higher quality beers that are available.  The better beers simply cost more.  Whether the ‘in people’ drink these beers to look good, or because they like them shouldn’t be a deciding factor whether or not you drink them. I thought that brewing my own beer would be a hobby that would be fun-brewing the beer that you like would be even funnier.

Learning to homebrew so you can make something like Coors is like going to Paris to learn cooking just so you can make your own Twinkees.  Even the mostbeginner of beginners will make a better beer than Coors the first time around. If there is a beer that you think taste better – let me know.

A beer that taste better?  How much time do you have?  There are literally thousands that are better.  Literally! The reason why people continue drinking Bud and Coors and Miller after they’re twenty-one is because they’ve grown accustomed to it.  They fall for the hype from Superbowl commercials and think that this is what beer is supposed to taste like. Before you consider brewing your own, pick up a Michael Jackson beer book and go hunt down some of the beers that he reviews.  If you think Coors is the best there is, you won’t enjoy homebrewing. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

Response:

It’s not a problem that he asked for a clone recipe, but that he asked for a Coors clone.  We get it; he doesn’t.  We homebrew because we want a better beer.  I doubt you’ll find a homebrewer who hasn’t tried less than a hundred different beers.  We’re selective about what we drink; James isn’t. And judging by his response to our responses, he’s probably too young to buy homebrew supplies. Go Giants!!

I’m sure if he asked for a Heineken clone he would have recipe by now.Maybe someone should give him a light lager recipe and let give it a try? Brian

Response:

 Getting clone recipes can some times be painful here. Not that it should, this news group is for helping people out with their brewing questions whether it be all grain ,canned ,clone ,ect.  I guess some don’t get it. As for your question , I haven’t a clue, but there are many books that have hundreds of clone beer recipes. Do a web search for "beer clones" and see what you get. good

luck It’s not a problem that he asked for a clone recipe, but that he asked for a Coors clone.  We get it; he doesn’t.  We homebrew because we want a better beer.  I doubt you’ll find a homebrewer who hasn’t tried less than a hundred different beers.  We’re selective about what we drink; James isn’t. And judging by his response to our responses, he’s probably too young to buy homebrew supplies. Go Giants!! — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

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You know, sometimes if one doesn’t have an answer it not necessarily demonstrates superiority in ridiculing the question or indirectly making fun of the one who asked.

You mean that was a serious post?  I thought it was just a troll. The reason why we became homebrewers is to escape such crappy beers like Coors. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

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James,  Getting clone recipes can some times be painful here. Not that it should, this news group is for helping people out with their brewing questions whether it be all grain ,canned ,clone ,ect.  I guess some don’t get it. As for your question , I haven’t a clue, but there are many books that have hundreds of clone beer recipes. Do a web search for "beer clones" and see what you get. good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you know what -fuck all of you ass holes – I hope the radiers kick  the shit out of the giants this super bowl and the beer we all will be drinking will be Coors light !! Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

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you know what -fuck all of you ass holes – I hope the radiers kick  the shit out of the giants this super bowl and the beer we all will be drinking will be Coors light !!

Maybe it is time for you to switch to Coors de-caff….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

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you know what -fuck all of you ass holes – I hope the radiers kick  the shit out of the giants this super bowl and the beer we all will be drinking will be Coors light !!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

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Is that what it takes to make Coors? Add some more water and a skunk and you have Corona. Great idea. Eddie V. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors Take a bottle of Sam Adams and add three cups of water to it. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

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You know, sometimes if one doesn’t have an answer it not necessary to reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, sometimes if one doesn’t have an answer it not necessarily demonstrates superiority in ridiculing the question or indirectly making fun of the one who asked. Kind of odd behavior in a group like this where everybody seems to be very helpful and takes others seriously. Good Answer, dobblebe!!!!  That’s about what it’d take to make piss-water like that! — Brew on! Michael Dieterle Brewmaster Biohazard Brewing Co. www.biohazardbrewing.com Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors Take a bottle of Sam Adams and add three cups of water to it. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

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You know, sometimes if one doesn’t have an answer it not necessarily demonstrates superiority in ridiculing the question or indirectly making fun of the one who asked. Kind of odd behavior in a group like this where everybody seems to be very helpful and takes others seriously.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Answer, dobblebe!!!!  That’s about what it’d take to make piss-water like that! — Brew on! Michael Dieterle Brewmaster Biohazard Brewing Co. www.biohazardbrewing.com Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors Take a bottle of Sam Adams and add three cups of water to it. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

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Good Answer, dobblebe!!!!  That’s about what it’d take to make piss-water like that! — Brew on! Michael Dieterle Brewmaster Biohazard Brewing Co. www.biohazardbrewing.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors Take a bottle of Sam Adams and add three cups of water to it. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

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Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

Response:

Anybody out there have a recipe for a clone of Coors

Take a bottle of Sam Adams and add three cups of water to it. — Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html

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Question:

I take a 12 inch piece of regular hose and stick it in the end of my cobra tap, then carefully fill up the pre-chilled bottles.  Works great the odd time I do it.

I’ve done this. I added a drilled rubber stopper the same size as a typical bottle’s neck (your local homebrew shop will have them, for making starter in bombers, etc). I put the stopper at about the height to allow the hose to reach the bottom of the bottle. press the stopper into the mouth of the bottle well, and turn on the tap full blast. Hold on to the stopper well. The beer will stop flowing as soon as the pressure in the bottle = pressure in the keg. The gently relax your grip a little to allow the air in the bottle to slowly escape. The bottle will slowly fill with much less foaming. Kind of the really cheap man’s counter pressure filler. Prechilling the bottles is always a good idea, too. Set it up once and leave the stopper on the hose for life. Enjoy, mark

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Try this little gem of an idea: http://www.gate.net/~jaywward/filler.htm Made one and it works great for a few bottles. or check out my gadgets page: http://member.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm Have Fun! Wayne Botanist Brewer Big Fun Brewing RIMS Site http://member.aol.com/bfbrewing/BigFunBrewing.htm Note: Spamguard used in email address…..

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I jam a bottle filler into a cobra tap, then fill pre-chilled bottles… Works OK for once-in-a-while bottling. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning on getting a corneilus keg and then had the thought "how bout if I want to bottle a 6pack from the keg??" Would it be as simple attaching a valve and filler hose to the keg with force carbonated beer? Mabey use a bottling wand to help prevent foaming?? Thanks, Scott

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I’m planning on getting a corneilus keg and then had the thought "how bout if I want to bottle a 6pack from the keg??" Would it be as simple attaching a valve and filler hose to the keg with force carbonated beer? Mabey use a bottling wand to help prevent foaming?? Thanks, Scott

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I take a 12 inch piece of regular hose and stick it in the end of my cobra tap, then carefully fill up the pre-chilled bottles.  Works great the odd time I do it. cheers, -Alan — Small Business Solutions 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks   All opinions expressed are my own. The attachment you cannot read is my Entrust signature – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning on getting a corneilus keg and then had the thought "how bout if I want to bottle a 6pack from the keg??" Would it be as simple attaching a valve and filler hose to the keg with force carbonated beer? Mabey use a bottling wand to help prevent foaming?? Thanks, Scott

Response:

Question:

As I posted here a few days ago there have reports that copper in beer causes gastro-intestinal problems. I don’t remember the amounts involved.  The acid in beer shouldn’t leach any, rather caustics (high p.h. like bleach or sodium hydroxide) do.

This is totally false. In fact, low pH (i.e., acidity) causes most metals, including copper, to become *more* soluble, not less soluble. The acid in your beer will in fact release free ionic copper (the most biologically available, and hence most toxic form) into solution (i.e., your beer) which will be available to your gastrointestinal tract for uptake. Similarly, high pH causes equilibrium reactions to occur in the other direction, which will cause any available copper to bind with things like carbonates and hydroxides in solution, which make for larger molecules, making them more difficult to absorb into your system. Having said that, don’t panic. Copper is an essential metal at trace concentrations — you need it to live. At high concentrations it tends to accumulate in your liver and kidneys. At even higher concentrations it can be toxic. The gastrointestinal problems cited above probably have something to do with an irritation of the inner layer of the GI tract, likely due to copper absorption by this tissue. I’m not a medical doctor, so don’t take this as medical advice, but it’s an effect that’s been demonstrated in several mammals and fish after exposure to high levels of copper delivered through the diet. Greg. — Greg Pyle Dept. of Biology University of Saskatchewan http://www.usask.ca/~pyle

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I missed the beginning of this thread, but I have a question that relates to what Greg just wrote. What about the copper mash tuns and kettles many brewing company’s use? Don’t they release high levels of copper ions into the wort? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I missed the beginning of this thread, but I have a question that relates to what Greg just wrote. What about the copper mash tuns and kettles many brewing company’s use? Don’t they release high levels of copper ions into the wort?

My purpose was simply to point out that low pH causes an increase in copper solubility, which is contrary to the views of a previous poster.  While it’s probably true that high levels of copper taken through the gut lining cause gastrointestinal difficulties owing to copper-induced irritation, I’m not aware of any similar irritations regularly caused by the many commercially-available beers made from copper equipment.  I’m sure its simply that copper concentrations rarely exceed levels necessary to cause G.I. irritation from wort made using copper equipment. Greg. — Greg Pyle Dept. of Biology University of Saskatchewan http://www.usask.ca/~pyle

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – } } } } I missed the beginning of this thread, but I have a question that relates to } what Greg just wrote. What about the copper mash tuns and kettles many } brewing company’s use? Don’t they release high levels of copper ions into } the wort? } } }My purpose was simply to point out that low pH causes an increase in copper }solubility, which is contrary to the views of a previous poster.  While it’s }probably true that high levels of copper taken through the gut lining cause }gastrointestinal difficulties owing to copper-induced irritation, I’m not aware }of any similar irritations regularly caused by the many commercially-available }beers made from copper equipment.  I’m sure its simply that copper }concentrations rarely exceed levels necessary to cause G.I. irritation from }wort made using copper equipment.

It should also be noted, however, that a surface layer of oxides and sulfides forms on the copper used in the brewing process.  These are much less soluble under normal brewing conditions that pure copper. Unless you scrub that layer off (or remove it chemically) the amount of copper leaching into your brew after the first few batches will be negligible. It is also worth noting that excessive copper levels in the wort would kill the yeast. Dr H

Response:

But what about after the brewing is done and you clean the kettle? I’m assuming that a normal wash would not have this effect, and that it would take a scrub or chemical cleaning to remove this layer, is this correct? Also don’t the yeast derive needed nutrients from the copper ions? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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But what about after the brewing is done and you clean the kettle? I’m assuming that a normal wash would not have this effect, and that it would take a scrub or chemical cleaning to remove this layer, is this correct? Also don’t the yeast derive needed nutrients from the copper ions?

After you’ve brewed a couple of batches, only very tiny amounts of copper will leach into your beer from your equepment. As the previous poster mentioned, you’d probably have to chemically treat your equipment to remove the insoluble copper sulphides and oxides (like heating in concentrated sulphuric acid). As for yeast requiring copper for nutriment, all the copper they need is most likely to come from your local water supply or from the malt you used to make your wort.  Excessive copper would be lethal to them. It may be that if you’re seeing good yeast activity in your wort made from copper equipment, the mere fact that the yeast are active is likely indicative of low copper levels in your wort. Perhaps one other point is worth noting.  I suspect that the "copper" used in copper equipment is not pure copper, but rather a copper alloy. If that’s true, it may be that the alloy is more resistant to copper leaching into your wort relative to pure copper equipment. I wonder if any analytical brewers have ICP-MS or similar data on wort brewed in copper and non-copper equipment, or median lethal concentrations of copper on yeast? — Greg Pyle Dept. of Biology University of Saskatchewan http://www.usask.ca/~pyle

Response:

My understanding is that you should spring for the SS coil if you are building a jockey box.  Although copper is ok for relatively short contact times, it is not good to let beer stay in contact with it for long periods of time.  I think there is a reaction that causes you beer to quickly oxidize. With that said, I don’t know what is considered a ‘long’ period of time.  My guess is that if you were careful to clean the coils after every use (just as you should for SS coils) there would not be a problem.  If you plan to have beer more or less permanently tapped through the box, then you may be in trouble. <insert standard disclaimer here I am not aware of any beer / copper reaction that could result in health problems, just oxidized beer.

As I posted here a few days ago there have reports that copper in beer causes gastro-intestinal problems. I don’t remember the amounts involved.  The acid in beer shouldn’t leach any, rather caustics (high p.h. like bleach or sodium hydroxide) do. So if you do use copper, don’t use caustic cleaning solutions.  Use some of the new non-caustics on the market.  Check your homebrew store or favorite brew-mag for names, numbers.  I like the rinseless ones because they don’t leave a white film on things like the ones you have to rinse.                 Patrick Fimbres                 Tucson AZ Brew for Health!

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Copper will work just fine. The only way beer will get oxidized is if it comes in contact with oxygen. Copper does not contain oxygen.

Response:

You do not need oxygen to oxidize beer. Copper will work just fine. The only way beer will get oxidized is if it comes in contact with oxygen. Copper does not contain oxygen.

– James Tomlinson Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Muddy Waters Brewery

Response:

My understanding is that you should spring for the SS coil if you are building a jockey box.  Although copper is ok for relatively short contact times, it is not good to let beer stay in contact with it for long periods of time.  I think there is a reaction that causes you beer to quickly oxidize. With that said, I don’t know what is considered a ‘long’ period of time.  My guess is that if you were careful to clean the coils after every use (just as you should for SS coils) there would not be a problem.  If you plan to have beer more or less permanently tapped through the box, then you may be in trouble. <insert standard disclaimer here I am not aware of any beer / copper reaction that could result in health problems, just oxidized beer. –Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My buddy wants to know if it is safe to use copper tubing (50′ coil) inside a ice chest or refridgerator to chill home brew that he makes in syrup (soda/pop concentrate)cans. Stainless is pretty expensive but we have concerns using copper. Any thoughts from the pros?

Response:

My buddy wants to know if it is safe to use copper tubing (50′ coil) inside a ice chest or refridgerator to chill home brew that he makes in syrup (soda/pop concentrate)cans. Stainless is pretty expensive but we have concerns using copper. Any thoughts from the pros?

Response:

Question:

: I just brewed 3.3lb. of hopped John Bull extract  (with Iso-Hop) and 6.5 : cups of corn sugar.  I boiled the wort for 25 min. and pored it into 5,5 : gal. of cold water.  I pkg. of dry brewers yeast that came with the JB : extract.  I will do a two stage fermentation.  Do you think it will be OK : in spite of all the corn sugar? : What do you think this will taste like?? Having made exactly this, I can testify that it will taste like hell.  Of the 5.5 dozen bottles I got from this batch, I drank about six bottles, gave a dozen away, and dumped out the other 4 dozen to make room for another beer I was bottling.  It’s the only time I’ve ever dumped out my brew.   Never again will I brew with sugar, except for priming. -Alan —      There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can’t. http://www.acadiau.ca/cc/alan/          http://www.acadiau.ca/cc/alan/brew/

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Ask the same question on www.longshotbeer.com .  There is a homebrewers forum that has worked well for my questions.  Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Experiment. Try things. Taste everything. (well, maybe not the yeast slurry, yuck!) I just bottled last night and tried the yeast slurry. It didn’t taste half as bad as it looked.  Do other people try this stuff?  Papazan says that yeast slurry has vitimen b-complex.  I am sure people could get used to the flavor. "Hey Joe, come on over for a bottle of yeast. . ."  "Yum!" — The e-mail address refering to John Kropewnicki may not be used for advertising commercial goods without prior request from the address or without the payment of US$50.00 per incident.  Sending commercial advertisements to the address shall be deemed acceptance of these terms.

Response:

Experiment. Try things. Taste everything. (well, maybe not the yeast slurry, yuck!)

I just bottled last night and tried the yeast slurry. It didn’t taste half as bad as it looked.  Do other people try this stuff?  Papazan says that yeast slurry has vitimen b-complex.  I am sure people could get used to the flavor. "Hey Joe, come on over for a bottle of yeast. . ."  "Yum!" — The e-mail address refering to John Kropewnicki may not be used for advertising commercial goods without prior request from the address or without the payment of US$50.00 per incident.  Sending commercial advertisements to the address shall be deemed acceptance of these terms.

Response:

: Experiment. Try things. Taste everything. (well, maybe not the yeast : slurry, yuck!) : I just bottled last night and tried the yeast slurry. It didn’t taste half as : bad as it looked.  Do other people try this stuff?  Papazan says that yeast : slurry has vitimen b-complex.  I am sure people could get used to the flavor. : "Hey Joe, come on over for a bottle of yeast. . ."  "Yum!" Every single bottle of homebrew I drink, I carefully decant the beer into my glass, leaving about 1/2 inch in the bottle.  I think swirl the remainder around , and gulp down the yeast directly from the bottle. Afterwards I enjoy my nice, crystal-clear beer. Keep in mind that a good deal of the body-building protein suppliments you see on the shelves consist largely of brewing yeast. I love the stuff! -Alan —         "Heuer wuensche ich mir zu Weinachten eigentlich nur eine         Homolka Kettensaege, mit kraftvollem 1,6 PS, dreifach Schliff,         und Schmierautomatik"                                 – Die Toten Hosen http://www.acadiau.ca/cc/alan/          http://www.acadiau.ca/cc/alan/brew/

Response:

I just brewed 3.3lb. of hopped John Bull extract  (with Iso-Hop) and 6.5 cups of corn sugar.  I boiled the wort for 25 min. and pored it into 5,5 gal. of cold water.  I pkg. of dry brewers yeast that came with the JB extract.  I will do a two stage fermentation.  Do you think it will be OK in spite of all the corn sugar? What do you think this will taste like??

In the immortal words of Charlie Papazian:         "Relax, Don’t worry, have a homebrew!" It will taste like the best d*mn beer you have ever brewed . . .  . . . until your next batch. Seriously, don’t be so serious about homebrewing.  If its not fun, don’t do it. Experiment. Try things. Taste everything. (well, maybe not the yeast slurry, yuck!) Wisdom comes from experience.  Experience comes from making mistakes. Take good notes. Write everything down.  That way, even a bad batch could be a valuable lesson. Even homebrew with adjuncts (which is NOT a four letter word) is still homebrew: fresh, unpasteurized, and unfiltered. Better than nearly anything you can buy in a bottle. As far as your latest batch, we can probably guess that it will be relatively light in color (a nice gold color), with a subtle hop bitterness, flavor and aroma. In short, a perfectly good, drinkable beer that you will be proud to share. Now that you have lots of time on your hands (as the yeast does all the real work), start planning your NEXT batch. Read anything you can get your hands on. Talk to other homebrewers. Search the web (lots of decent resources). But don’t forget to have fun! (Except washing bottles; what a pain!) Good luck! And let us know how it turns out. Frank —   BOSE Corporation           TEL: (508) 879-7330 x64103 Framingham, MA 01701       FAX: (508) 879-4869

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Question:

#I am just about ready to start brewing my own beer.  I have gotten many #catalogs so far but I really don’t know who or what is the best way to #go and/or get started.  Can anyone recommend a good mail order supplier. #Is getting one of the kits the way to do it?  Thanks in advance. # I highly recommend Charleston Beer Works for mail order.  These guys have the best service I have seen in any business of any type for a long time.  And they have an email address so you can easily get any advice you need, usually in one business day.  But they also give advice over the phone if you can’t wait that long.  Anyway, call 1-800-225-2910 to get a catalog or ask questions.  Ask for Scott if he’s available as he is particularly knowledgable.   I have found that with most companies the kits offer little savings over buying the separate parts to get exactly what you want.  If you are impatient, buy the kit.  If you want to take a little time to figure out exactly what you want then make your own little kit list and then do some math with various distributors.  I did just that and after comparing many alternatives I found that Charleston Beer Works had the best price on what I wanted.  I basically got their deluxe kit with a few extras added in.  Their prices were the best for what I wanted, especially considering they didn’t charge for P&H in the 48 contiguous states.   Regardless of what supplier you decide on, and depending on your budget, I think that you will will get more bang for your buck if you follow these hints: 1.  Insist on glass carboys for both primary and secondary.  They are a little more expensive at the beginning but in the long run you will realize a savings and have fewer sanitation problems (as long as you don’t drop it). 2.  If you get a kit that doesn’t include the following then pay extra for them:  thermometer (dial type is my favorite), hydrometer (you will learn more with this instrument to help you),  a good book (Charles Papazian’s "The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" is a favorite; also good is Dave Miller’s "Brewing the World’s Great Beers"), a racking cane clip (some may argue this, but in my mind it is the best $1.50 I ever spent). 3.  Make sure you get a bottling bucket and bottle filler.  Bottling is the least fun part of the process but these items make it a little less work. Well, I hope this helps a little.  I am sure some of my opinions will be argued but I merely state my opinion based on my experience.  If you need clarification or other info feel free to email me or post here. Oh, and don’t get caught at the end wondering where your bottles are coming from.  Call all the local bars, etc. and try to secure a good source of non-twist type bottles.  If you have to they can be bought but they are damned expensive.  Most people can manage a free source with a little leg work.  I personally like the 1/2 liter bottles that some German wheat beers come in (and other styles I am sure).  The larger bottle means fewer bottles to fill.   Robert Shields http://www.clemson.edu/~wcampbe

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I am just about ready to start brewing my own beer.  I have gotten many catalogs so far but I really don’t know who or what is the best way to go and/or get started.  Can anyone recommend a good mail order supplier. Is getting one of the kits the way to do it?  Thanks in advance.

An equipment kit is usually the best deal but read my How To file for more info on which equipment is needed. My favorite mail order suppliers are Williams Brewing, Brewer’s Resource, The Beverage People, and Hoptech, all from California. — Metallurgist for International Space Station Alpha My file, How to Brew Your First Beer, containing info on equipment,

terms, brewing processes and troubleshooting, is available via WWW on the Palmer House Brewery and Smithy homepage at http://www.primenet.com/~johnj/ OR FTP ftp.primenet.com/users/j/johnj

Response:

I am just about ready to start brewing my own beer.  I have gotten many catalogs so far but I really don’t know who or what is the best way to go and/or get started.  Can anyone recommend a good mail order supplier. Is getting one of the kits the way to do it?  Thanks in advance. |_|_| PC-Ohio PCBoard OLS      pcohio.com     HST 16.8: 216-381-3320 |_|_| The Best BBS in America  Cleveland, OH  V34 28.8: 216-691-3030

Response:

Question:

Since getting back into homebrewing (total failure from several brews 15 years ago) I have brewed four batches lately and was thrilled to find that I could indeedy, actually make good beer.  What fun! The first brew (#1), an all extract, wyeast american ale, with Cascade hops worried me at first.  I tasted it after four days in the bottle and there was a definite sourness to it.  I thought about the possibility of infection and resolved to boil myself in oil before attempting another brew, but after a week in the bottle the sourness was less noticable, and after three weeks there only remains a faint hint it (very drinkable).  I guess this was a normal process and that the beer was not infected.  None of the homebrewing texts say much about the aging process other than ‘wait two or three weeks’.  My second  brew (#2) was a brown ale according to Papazian’s recipe (using Wyeast London Ale and lots of dark extract) that has a very similar sourness that is diminishing much more slowly.  After two weeks in the bottle, I still can’t drink more than one 22 oz bottle at a time.  I am confident that in time this will improve. Good.  With two decent extract brews under my belt, I was ready for some grain recipes. (#3) My third brew used 8 lbs Edme Pale English malt, 6 lbs pale extract, Wyeast Bavarian Lager and 5 1/2 oz Saaz plug hops to make up about 8 or 9 gallons (~sg 1.044). (#4) My fourth used 8 lbs Edme Pale English malt, 2 oz cluster pellets, repitched 1 cup of Wyeast London Ale from #2 (it smelled fine and was in the fridge three days), to make 7 or 8 gallons of a light ale (sg 1.030). I brewed and fermented these last two simultaneously.  #4 was completely fermented out in 5 days and #3 after about 9 days. Now comes the character builder.  After 5 days in the bottle I sampled #4. The beer was a bit cloudy and had a light aroma.  At first it tasted decent, light as expected and with a bit of green-ness, but when I swallowed, I was hit with a terrible harsh aftertaste.  Way back on the back of my tongue was a harsh bitterness that was definitely not hops.  It was totally repulsive, and I fear that this brew may be headed for the pisser without my processing it further.  Of course I’ll keep it around and hope that it improves, I also have my local homebrew shop that will look at it as well as a microbrewery that said they might look at it under a microscope if I catch them on a slow day. Then I tested #3 after 4 days in the bottle and it was good, although it had an aftertaste identical to #4 but to a much lesser degree.  Not repulsive, just off a bit.  I’m hopeful this one will improve. How should I go about determining what I am doing wrong?  One thing I am not doing is siphoning off the trub.  According to gossip I have seen here the presence of trub should not cause this sledgehammer aftertaste I experienced.  As far as oxidation goes, the only bad thing I did is that I strained the grains out with a large strainer after mashing, while pouring into another vessel (then back into the kettle).  I cooled the 5 gallon kettle in my sink to about 70F in thirty minutes. I am not giving up this time!  Any suggestions before I embark on my next all grain brew?  Yes, I promise I will siphon off the trub next time.  I’m also inclined to switch back to Wyeast American Ale since that produced my best brew so far.  Much thanks for any help. John

Response:

How should I go about determining what I am doing wrong?  One thing I am not doing is siphoning off the trub.  According to gossip I have seen here the presence of trub should not cause this sledgehammer aftertaste I experienced.  As far as oxidation goes, the only bad thing I did is that I strained the grains out with a large strainer after mashing, while pouring into another vessel (then back into the kettle).  I cooled the 5 gallon kettle in my sink to about 70F in thirty minutes.

         Did you get a good look at the wort in the kettle? Did it have a     lot of husk flour?          I am convinced that extracting a lot of tannins, either by     allowing a lot of husk material into the kettle, or by other screw-ups     (see below) can give the effect you describe.          Why do I say tannins? Well, partially it is a conceit of mine, but     I just bottled a batch of a beer I call "Black Death" that had a     similar problem. It was a partial mash, with two pounds of grain. I was     showing a friend how I brew, and while I was talking to him, I allowed     the grains to boil in the mashout. Baaaad news.          Well, after it fermented out, I had this very unpleasant bitter     aftertaste in the back of my mouth.          Enter Polyclar AT. This stuff attracts tannins and then settles     into the bottom of the fermenter. I dumped around 150% of the     recommended dosage into the secondary, then waited a couple of days.     The harsh bitterness had diminished substantially. Unfortunately, the     character of the brew also diminished, especially the strong hop note     that I had previously noticed. Big loss, but at least the beer is     drinkable now.          I realize that the potential for a placebo effect is great, so it     may not be tannins after all. I do know that too-high fermentation     temperatures can also cause a harsh bitterness, as well. However, if     the Polyclar therapy is not a placebo, it is certainly consistent with     the idea that this aftertaste was caused by bitterness. —  I don’t speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough…

Response:

I saw some Polyclar at the brewshop yesterday.  What is the difference between Polyclar and Polyclar AT? I noticed Papazian says to use two teaspoons of Polyclar while Miller recommends up to three tablespoons for a light lager!  Whats up? John Shepardson

Response:

I saw some Polyclar at the brewshop yesterday.  What is the difference between Polyclar and Polyclar AT?

         Um, Polyclar AT is based on the Intel 286 chip? Actually, I     doubt there is a difference, that is just what the label said. I noticed Papazian says to use two teaspoons of Polyclar while Miller recommends up to three tablespoons for a light lager!  Whats up?

         Miller says that his dosage is higher than the manufacturer’s     recommendation because homebrew needs more. I don’t know for sure,     but I’ll bet that Papazian’s dosage is what is recommended by the     manufacturer. —  I don’t speak for Fermilab, although my mouth is probably big enough…  BLOWOFF METHOD: Brewing technique in which the brewer blows off bottling  until a fermenter is needed for the next batch.    

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